What happened to the “Master Debaters?”

[CrusaderFrank]

Amazing that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING changed in 20 years, except US policy. There was no invasion of Kuwait. There was no support of terrorism. THere was no program for chemical and nuclear weapons. No no, just US hypocrisy.

Give it a rest.

The Left continues to talk out its collective ass here.

Libruls suck, but not in the good way

 

[California Girl]

Without Jimmy Carter and the Democrats handing Iran to the Islamists there might not have been a Gulf War.

Had we finished the job in '91, there would have been no need for the re-run.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

What happened to the Republican Party? The Party of ideas, facts and figures?

Bush/DeLay/Frist figured out that if you call yourself a "Conservative" and spend money like a "Liberal", you win elections. Once the lying started, the thinking stopped.

I was a pretty loyal Republican prior to the Bush/DeLay/Frist era. Once that insanity started I left. The only Republican Partisans left are the folks that hate the Democrats so much they can't possibly vote 3rd party for fear of those "damned dirty libs."

If you're a free thinking person, you're not a partisan now. At best you're an independent. If you call yourself a Conservative and you're a Republican loyalist, then I just feel sorry for you. What happened to Ron Paul and Duncan Hunter ought to tell you you're out of luck in the GOP.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Without Jimmy Carter and the Democrats handing Iran to the Islamists there might not have been a Gulf War.

Had we finished the job in '91, there would have been no need for the re-run.

Smartest move George H.W. Bush made was realizing that actually trying to conquer Iraq would be a nightmarish mess. Containment was always the best policy with Iraq.

Worst move George H.W. Bush made was not giving the Kurds in the North the cover they needed to resist Saddam. If he'd done that, we wouldn't have had to go back.

 

[saveliberty]

Concerning war, the biggest mistake liberals make is the nation building aspect. It has even rubbed off on neocons. War should be a horrible event of last resort. We should enter a country and crush it completely, then you go home. No restoring utilities, roads, communications and industry. No food and water. If you are stupid enough to challenge us you will suffer for years period. This approach should limit countries like North Korea and Iran from any type of relationship they currently have with us.

Instead, we make all types of improvements or offer support for years to come. North Korea does it to gain energy and food. The downside to war with the US is not all that bad by other nations standards.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Concerning war, the biggest mistake liberals make is the nation building aspect. It has even rubbed off on neocons. War should be a horrible event of last resort. We should enter a country and crush it completely, then you go home. No restoring utilities, roads, communications and industry. No food and water. If you are stupid enough to challenge us you will suffer for years period. This approach should limit countries like North Korea and Iran from any type of relationship they currently have with us.

Instead, we make all types of improvements or offer support for years to come. North Korea does it to gain energy and food. The downside to war with the US is not all that bad by other nations standards.

I don't mind rebuilding after the fact.

But you're right, if we go to war, we should go to war. None of this smart missle/special forces crap. We should carpet bomb and firebomb full force.

War should be terrible to behold, both so that we understand the implications of a choice to go to war, and so our enemies understand the danger in provoking us to war.

 

[xsited1]

What happened to the “Master Debaters?”

They joined the Obamabot cult. Some go by the name 'rdead'.

 

[The Rabbi]

Concerning war, the biggest mistake liberals make is the nation building aspect. It has even rubbed off on neocons. War should be a horrible event of last resort. We should enter a country and crush it completely, then you go home. No restoring utilities, roads, communications and industry. No food and water. If you are stupid enough to challenge us you will suffer for years period. This approach should limit countries like North Korea and Iran from any type of relationship they currently have with us.

Instead, we make all types of improvements or offer support for years to come. North Korea does it to gain energy and food. The downside to war with the US is not all that bad by other nations standards.

Well, that didnt work too well in Germany post-WW1. Its opposite worked pretty well in Europe post WW2.
That doesnt mean there needs to be a blanket policy to rebuild or not rebuild. But our withdrawl from Afghanistan after the Soviet war left the area open to the Taliban. So picking up and leaving isn't the greatest idea out there. It's complex.
But I agree that if you go to war, you go to war. No ROEs that prohibit this and that. It has to be fast, brutal, and effective. Turn the cameras off and get the job done.

 

[Charles Stucker]

They already had the government of their own choosing.

No, Iraq did not have a government of their own choosing. Saddam Hussein used a military coup to destroy the government the Iraqi people chose after WWII. The United States supported Saddam because the turmoil in Iran, where the abuses of the Shaw (another repressive dictator placed in power with US aid) had resulted in a popular uprising led by religious fundamentalists. Saddam was the US's secular counter to the "threat" of Islamic fundamentalism.
Hypocritically, at almost the same time as the US denounced Iran, they supported religious fanatics, aka Afghan guerrillas, against the Soviets.

 

[rdean]

Two guys couldn't rape a million women.

Other than you trying to make a false point, nobody said that.
Where are the master debaters?

I understand that Saddam was bad, but women were able to go out and work and teach and shop and just go out. Women's rights groups say that things were much better for women.

Got proof, or just got milk?
Where are the master debaters?

The real problem here is that Republicans convinced Ameria to do this awful thing. Destroy another country and ruin the lives of those who didn't ask to be "saved". Of course they want to put a good "face" on a terrible mistake.

If America is so convinced, how come you aren't?
Where are the master debaters?

Republicans don't understand how President "You killed my cousin" Bush wasn't thanked. How he could be on the "face" end of a pair of shoes. They just don't get it.

Project much?
Where are the master debaters?

The reason you can't post any proof that I'm wrong is because I'm right and you know it.

History News Network

"Under Saddam, things were not good, but they were better than now," explains a young Baghdad woman named Zubaida. "Under Saddam, we kept close to the walls, but now we do not go out at all. I want to live somewhere else. Anywhere. I think that anywhere else on the planet is better than Iraq."

Swans Commentary - Special Iraq: "Assault On Iraqi Women," by Gregory Elich

BAGHDAD — The Iraqi TV journalist who threw his shoes at then-president George W. Bush will be showered with gifts including a four-bedroom house — and at least one potential bride — upon his imminent release from jail.

Iraqi shoe thrower gets hero treatment - USATODAY.com

You are not a "Master Debater, nor a Cunning Linguist". Sorry.

 

[amrchaos]

Remember when the Republican Party was called the “Party of Ideas”? When they won many of the debates with facts and figures? When the majority of scientists were Republican?



I am turning 37 this year and I swear, I do not recall such a time......Was this back in the 1920s??

 

[rdean]

Remember when the Republican Party was called the “Party of Ideas”? When they won many of the debates with facts and figures? When the majority of scientists were Republican?



I am turning 37 this year and I swear, I do not recall such a time......Was this back in the 1920s??

No, it was during the 50's and unfortunately, I do remember that time.

 

[rdean]

Concerning war, the biggest mistake liberals make is the nation building aspect. It has even rubbed off on neocons. War should be a horrible event of last resort. We should enter a country and crush it completely, then you go home. No restoring utilities, roads, communications and industry. No food and water. If you are stupid enough to challenge us you will suffer for years period. This approach should limit countries like North Korea and Iran from any type of relationship they currently have with us.

Instead, we make all types of improvements or offer support for years to come. North Korea does it to gain energy and food. The downside to war with the US is not all that bad by other nations standards.

Well, that didnt work too well in Germany post-WW1. Its opposite worked pretty well in Europe post WW2.
That doesnt mean there needs to be a blanket policy to rebuild or not rebuild. But our withdrawl from Afghanistan after the Soviet war left the area open to the Taliban. So picking up and leaving isn't the greatest idea out there. It's complex.
But I agree that if you go to war, you go to war. No ROEs that prohibit this and that. It has to be fast, brutal, and effective. Turn the cameras off and get the job done.

The real problem was that we left a political vacuum that the Nazi's filled. The German, Japanese and Italian governments were put in place under the guidance of the US and its allies.

This is why the disaster in Iraq. Bush, just like everything else he touched, helped put in place a government that will be a disaster. Islam as the "national religion"? Just that one thing guarantees an Iranian style government.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Remember when the Republican Party was called the “Party of Ideas”? When they won many of the debates with facts and figures? When the majority of scientists were Republican?



I am turning 37 this year and I swear, I do not recall such a time......Was this back in the 1920s??

No, it was during the 50's and unfortunately, I do remember that time.

It was during the 1980s and I remember it well.

 

[Bfgrn]

Concerning war, the biggest mistake liberals make is the nation building aspect. It has even rubbed off on neocons. War should be a horrible event of last resort. We should enter a country and crush it completely, then you go home. No restoring utilities, roads, communications and industry. No food and water. If you are stupid enough to challenge us you will suffer for years period. This approach should limit countries like North Korea and Iran from any type of relationship they currently have with us.

Instead, we make all types of improvements or offer support for years to come. North Korea does it to gain energy and food. The downside to war with the US is not all that bad by other nations standards.

WHAT you are describing is GENOCIDE asshole...

To the wicked, everything serves as pretext.
Voltaire

 

[Bfgrn]

Amazing that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING changed in 20 years, except US policy. There was no invasion of Kuwait. There was no support of terrorism. THere was no program for chemical and nuclear weapons. No no, just US hypocrisy.

Give it a rest.

The Left continues to talk out its collective ass here.

"I think it’s just crazy. It's part of that worldview that led us to where we are. Think about it. The United States went and negotiated with and supported Saddam Hussein himself against Iran under this notion that sometimes my enemy is my friend. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That emboldened Saddam Hussein and allowed him to invade Kuwait. It made us go to war that we did not finish and did not take Saddam Hussein out."
Former Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas) 12/11/06 (The Hill)

 

[nodoginnafight]

That has to be a doctored photo - NO ONE smiles in a mug shot - DO THEY?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

That has to be a doctored photo - NO ONE smiles in a mug shot - DO THEY?

My understanding is that DeLay did. He went in cocky and still thinks the charges were garbage. The only thing doctored there is the "Money Laundering" on the sign.

 

[The Rabbi]

Concerning war, the biggest mistake liberals make is the nation building aspect. It has even rubbed off on neocons. War should be a horrible event of last resort. We should enter a country and crush it completely, then you go home. No restoring utilities, roads, communications and industry. No food and water. If you are stupid enough to challenge us you will suffer for years period. This approach should limit countries like North Korea and Iran from any type of relationship they currently have with us.

Instead, we make all types of improvements or offer support for years to come. North Korea does it to gain energy and food. The downside to war with the US is not all that bad by other nations standards.

Well, that didnt work too well in Germany post-WW1. Its opposite worked pretty well in Europe post WW2.
That doesnt mean there needs to be a blanket policy to rebuild or not rebuild. But our withdrawl from Afghanistan after the Soviet war left the area open to the Taliban. So picking up and leaving isn't the greatest idea out there. It's complex.
But I agree that if you go to war, you go to war. No ROEs that prohibit this and that. It has to be fast, brutal, and effective. Turn the cameras off and get the job done.

The real problem was that we left a political vacuum that the Nazi's filled. The German, Japanese and Italian governments were put in place under the guidance of the US and its allies.

This is why the disaster in Iraq. Bush, just like everything else he touched, helped put in place a government that will be a disaster. Islam as the "national religion"? Just that one thing guarantees an Iranian style government.

Well, what percentage of Iraqis practice Islam? 90%? More? It hardly guarantees anything other than it is reflective of the make up of the country.

 

[Harry Dresden]

They already had the government of their own choosing.

oh really.....so Sadam allowed free and fair elections?.....you know like the one they had where he was the unanimous choice?......no votes for the other 5 guys....dam!... he was good....

They don't have free and fair elections now. First, women can't go anywhere unescorted by a male relative. That means that if an unescorted woman shows up at the poll, she can't vote.

The Christian population has been pretty much wiped out. So nothing is "free and fair" for them.

If they didn't like their government, then it was up to them to change it - not us.

Since the "constitution" says all "legislation is based on Islam" and "Islam is the national religion" (Articles 2 and 3), anyone who doesn't agree with "Islam" is pretty much screwed. How is that fair? That is not really a question because the answer is obviously, "It's not".

How come so few Republicans actually know what is going on in Iraq these days? The Constitution, the death of the Christians, the lack of women's rights, religion run amok?

um Deano....you said BEFORE the invasion they had the govt of their choice....look up at the bolded.....now you are talking about AFTER the invasion....which is it?.....