What ever happened to the "separation" of church and state?

[ding]

The founders held the opinion that a creator had done certain things. At no time was it stated as an objective fact. Being educated and reasonable people they understood the concepts involved. They knew that proving the existence of a deity was not possible, and imposing one, unjust.

"The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments. Such is my veneration for every religion that reveals the attributes of the Deity, or a future state of rewards and punishments, that I had rather see the opinions of Confucius or Mohammed inculcated upon our youth than see them grow up wholly devoid of a system of religious principles. But the religion I mean to recommend in this place is the religion of Jesus Christ. It is foreign to my purpose to hint at the arguments which establish the truth of the Christian revelation. My only business is to declare that all its doctrines and precepts are calculated to promote the happiness of society and the safety and well-being of civil government. A Christian cannot fail of being a republican*."

— Benjamin Rush (1745-1813) Founding Father& signer of the Declaration of Independence

 

[Mudda]

They had zero proof of a creator, just like you.

Nope. They had the same proof I have. Creation.

So the universe is proof of the god of the bible who cares whether we obey what's in a book or not?

Now you are skipping steps. You want to jump from proving His existence to proving He cares.

The universe and everything in it and everything that has happened since it started in a hot dense state is proof of His existence. We've been through this before like a dozen times.

So what's the proof that the god cares whether we obey a book or not?
And also, what's the proof of when the bible quotes the god talking, that's it's really from an invisible being?

Who said He did? He gave you free will to choose.

If god didn't care if I obeyed a book, why would I be threatened with hell?
So what's with quoting god in the bible? Got any proof the invisible dude talked?

 

[there4eyeM]

[/QUOTE]If god didn't care if I obeyed a book, why would I be threatened with hell?
So what's with quoting god in the bible? Got any proof the invisible dude talked?[/QUOTE]
The most that we can glean from the Bible is that people can have personal revelations. As all information comes to a person through perception, subjectivity must be taken into consideration. It is absurd to insist that one person accept as absolute reality another person's perceptions.

 

[ding]

Nope. They had the same proof I have. Creation.

So the universe is proof of the god of the bible who cares whether we obey what's in a book or not?

Now you are skipping steps. You want to jump from proving His existence to proving He cares.

The universe and everything in it and everything that has happened since it started in a hot dense state is proof of His existence. We've been through this before like a dozen times.

So what's the proof that the god cares whether we obey a book or not?
And also, what's the proof of when the bible quotes the god talking, that's it's really from an invisible being?

Who said He did? He gave you free will to choose.

If god didn't care if I obeyed a book, why would I be threatened with hell?
So what's with quoting god in the bible? Got any proof the invisible dude talked?

What is hell?

 

[ding]

The most that we can glean from the Bible is that people can have personal revelations. As all information comes to a person through perception, subjectivity must be taken into consideration. It is absurd to insist that one person accept as absolute reality another person's perceptions.

Why do you believe that is the most you can glean from the Bible?

 

[Mudda]

So the universe is proof of the god of the bible who cares whether we obey what's in a book or not?

Now you are skipping steps. You want to jump from proving His existence to proving He cares.

The universe and everything in it and everything that has happened since it started in a hot dense state is proof of His existence. We've been through this before like a dozen times.

So what's the proof that the god cares whether we obey a book or not?
And also, what's the proof of when the bible quotes the god talking, that's it's really from an invisible being?

Who said He did? He gave you free will to choose.

If god didn't care if I obeyed a book, why would I be threatened with hell?
So what's with quoting god in the bible? Got any proof the invisible dude talked?

What is hell?

HOLY DEFLECTION BATMAN!

 

[ding]

Now you are skipping steps. You want to jump from proving His existence to proving He cares.

The universe and everything in it and everything that has happened since it started in a hot dense state is proof of His existence. We've been through this before like a dozen times.

So what's the proof that the god cares whether we obey a book or not?
And also, what's the proof of when the bible quotes the god talking, that's it's really from an invisible being?

Who said He did? He gave you free will to choose.

If god didn't care if I obeyed a book, why would I be threatened with hell?
So what's with quoting god in the bible? Got any proof the invisible dude talked?

What is hell?

HOLY DEFLECTION BATMAN!

No. We can't have a conversation of this if we aren't talking about the same thing. What do you believe hell is?

 

[Mudda]

So what's the proof that the god cares whether we obey a book or not?
And also, what's the proof of when the bible quotes the god talking, that's it's really from an invisible being?

Who said He did? He gave you free will to choose.

If god didn't care if I obeyed a book, why would I be threatened with hell?
So what's with quoting god in the bible? Got any proof the invisible dude talked?

What is hell?

HOLY DEFLECTION BATMAN!

No. We can't have a conversation of this if we aren't talking about the same thing. What do you believe hell is?

Your life.

 

[ding]

Who said He did? He gave you free will to choose.

If god didn't care if I obeyed a book, why would I be threatened with hell?
So what's with quoting god in the bible? Got any proof the invisible dude talked?

What is hell?

HOLY DEFLECTION BATMAN!

No. We can't have a conversation of this if we aren't talking about the same thing. What do you believe hell is?

Your life.

Given that you are trolling religious threads, it would seem that you have that backwards.

 

[Mudda]

If god didn't care if I obeyed a book, why would I be threatened with hell?
So what's with quoting god in the bible? Got any proof the invisible dude talked?

What is hell?

HOLY DEFLECTION BATMAN!

No. We can't have a conversation of this if we aren't talking about the same thing. What do you believe hell is?

Your life.

Given that you are trolling religious threads, it would seem that you have that backwards.

So the universe is proof that god wants us to obey a book?

 

[ding]

What is hell?

HOLY DEFLECTION BATMAN!

No. We can't have a conversation of this if we aren't talking about the same thing. What do you believe hell is?

Your life.

Given that you are trolling religious threads, it would seem that you have that backwards.

So the universe is proof that god wants us to obey a book?

Changing the subject again, I see.

 

[Mudda]

HOLY DEFLECTION BATMAN!

No. We can't have a conversation of this if we aren't talking about the same thing. What do you believe hell is?

Your life.

Given that you are trolling religious threads, it would seem that you have that backwards.

So the universe is proof that god wants us to obey a book?

Changing the subject again, I see.

No, just trying to get back on it.

 

[ding]

No. We can't have a conversation of this if we aren't talking about the same thing. What do you believe hell is?

Your life.

Given that you are trolling religious threads, it would seem that you have that backwards.

So the universe is proof that god wants us to obey a book?

Changing the subject again, I see.

No, just trying to get back on it.

I think we both know better than that. But for the sake of argument, let's say you are. Great. What do you believe hell is?

 

[Mudda]

Your life.

Given that you are trolling religious threads, it would seem that you have that backwards.

So the universe is proof that god wants us to obey a book?

Changing the subject again, I see.

No, just trying to get back on it.

I think we both know better than that. But for the sake of argument, let's say you are. Great. What do you believe hell is?

This was the original questions which you never answered. Answer them do we can move on. Or have you no answer as usual?

 

[ding]

Given that you are trolling religious threads, it would seem that you have that backwards.

So the universe is proof that god wants us to obey a book?

Changing the subject again, I see.

No, just trying to get back on it.

I think we both know better than that. But for the sake of argument, let's say you are. Great. What do you believe hell is?

This was the original questions which you never answered. Answer them do we can move on. Or have you no answer as usual?

Like I told you before it would be illogical to hold this conversation unless we were talking about the same thing. I know what I believe hell is but I don't know what you believe hell is. Can you tell me what you believe hell is?

 

[Mudda]

So the universe is proof that god wants us to obey a book?

Changing the subject again, I see.

No, just trying to get back on it.

I think we both know better than that. But for the sake of argument, let's say you are. Great. What do you believe hell is?

This was the original questions which you never answered. Answer them do we can move on. Or have you no answer as usual?

Like I told you before it would be illogical to hold this conversation unless we were talking about the same thing. I know what I believe hell is but I don't know what you believe hell is. Can you tell me what you believe hell is?

I meant these were the original questions:
"So what's the proof that the god cares whether we obey a book or not?
And also, what's the proof of when the bible quotes the god talking, that's it's really from an invisible being?"
Do you have an answer or not? My guess is not.

 

[ding]

Changing the subject again, I see.

No, just trying to get back on it.

I think we both know better than that. But for the sake of argument, let's say you are. Great. What do you believe hell is?

This was the original questions which you never answered. Answer them do we can move on. Or have you no answer as usual?

Like I told you before it would be illogical to hold this conversation unless we were talking about the same thing. I know what I believe hell is but I don't know what you believe hell is. Can you tell me what you believe hell is?

I meant these were the original questions:
"So what's the proof that the god cares whether we obey a book or not?
And also, what's the proof of when the bible quotes the god talking, that's it's really from an invisible being?"
Do you have an answer or not? My guess is not.

You asked: So what's the proof that the god cares whether we obey a book or not?

I responded: Who said He did? He gave you free will to choose.

You responded: If god didn't care if I obeyed a book, why would I be threatened with hell?

I responded: What is hell?

That's where we are at. You are trying to prove to me that I believe God cares what you do. While I believe God has no preference what you do. He is more than happy for you to do whatever you want. He is perfectly happy to let you to reap what you sow. I am too.

 

[jillian]

This nation was established with two primary concepts of governance: first that there could be no legitimate governance without representation, and second that there must be a separation of church and state in government. We have apparently lost both.

Religious beliefs or tenets are not laws or legislation to be dictated to fellow citizens. Religions beliefs are personal ideological tenets to be practiced privately and not mandated to nonbelievers. As a nonbeliever, I do not want to hear about abortion, god, prayer, death penalty, etal. However, if you were against abortion, you should negotiate to adopt an unwanted child, not demand the child be born (into an uncertain environment). But don't deny someone the right to choose whether to have an abortion or not.

I am not religious, and I have never been religious. I do not feel quilty about it, nor will I allow any one to make me feel quilty about it. I am just fine with my destiny, and I am confident that I will live on in the future and with a purpose as will all of us. It is because you are so uncertain of your future and your purpose that you need to believe that there is a reason or purpose to life and beyond. It is because you lack faith that you cling to such archaic and even pretentious concepts. You see, I don't simply believe or have faith in life everlasting. In my soul and in my heart I know in life everlasting.

government is more essential to a society. people who are religious find their religion important. we aren't a theocracy, though... people are on their own when it comes to their religious beliefs, which is as it should be.

government exists separately. G-d bless the First Amendment.

 

[ding]

This nation was established with two primary concepts of governance: first that there could be no legitimate governance without representation, and second that there must be a separation of church and state in government. We have apparently lost both.

Religious beliefs or tenets are not laws or legislation to be dictated to fellow citizens. Religions beliefs are personal ideological tenets to be practiced privately and not mandated to nonbelievers. As a nonbeliever, I do not want to hear about abortion, god, prayer, death penalty, etal. However, if you were against abortion, you should negotiate to adopt an unwanted child, not demand the child be born (into an uncertain environment). But don't deny someone the right to choose whether to have an abortion or not.

I am not religious, and I have never been religious. I do not feel quilty about it, nor will I allow any one to make me feel quilty about it. I am just fine with my destiny, and I am confident that I will live on in the future and with a purpose as will all of us. It is because you are so uncertain of your future and your purpose that you need to believe that there is a reason or purpose to life and beyond. It is because you lack faith that you cling to such archaic and even pretentious concepts. You see, I don't simply believe or have faith in life everlasting. In my soul and in my heart I know in life everlasting.

government is more essential to a society. people who are religious find their religion important. we aren't a theocracy, though... people are on their own when it comes to their religious beliefs, which is as it should be.

government exists separately. G-d bless the First Amendment.

Would you mind removing your religion of socialism from our government?

 

[Mudda]

This nation was established with two primary concepts of governance: first that there could be no legitimate governance without representation, and second that there must be a separation of church and state in government. We have apparently lost both.

Religious beliefs or tenets are not laws or legislation to be dictated to fellow citizens. Religions beliefs are personal ideological tenets to be practiced privately and not mandated to nonbelievers. As a nonbeliever, I do not want to hear about abortion, god, prayer, death penalty, etal. However, if you were against abortion, you should negotiate to adopt an unwanted child, not demand the child be born (into an uncertain environment). But don't deny someone the right to choose whether to have an abortion or not.

I am not religious, and I have never been religious. I do not feel quilty about it, nor will I allow any one to make me feel quilty about it. I am just fine with my destiny, and I am confident that I will live on in the future and with a purpose as will all of us. It is because you are so uncertain of your future and your purpose that you need to believe that there is a reason or purpose to life and beyond. It is because you lack faith that you cling to such archaic and even pretentious concepts. You see, I don't simply believe or have faith in life everlasting. In my soul and in my heart I know in life everlasting.

government is more essential to a society. people who are religious find their religion important. we aren't a theocracy, though... people are on their own when it comes to their religious beliefs, which is as it should be.

government exists separately. G-d bless the First Amendment.

Would you mind removing your religion of socialism from our government?

Don't worry, Trump will slash Social Security, food stamps and Medicaid. Just like you voted for him to do.