What do you understand about FDR? Did FDR want a war with Japan? For answers, check here

[Robert W]

The book by Amity is filled with errors and visions of capitalistic utopia. That what would have solved the Great Depression was individual self-help.

One would be urged to forgo her revisionist crap and read a book about John Maynard Keyes.

No she did not write errors. She has been confirmed by other experts. I think even you agreed that the depression was cured by war.

 

[Robert W]

Bob, clearly your conservative bias has affected your understanding of facts leading up to our involvement in WWII. FDR could not have unilaterally declared war on the Axis power no matter how much courage he possessed. Republic opposition in Congress would have stopped any declaration of war. They actually wanted to kill the lend-lease program which was keeping Britian afloat. Even with the sinking of the Lusitania. Public opinion was 80% against involvement.

Also, it's complete bullshit that FDR knew of or planned to let Japan attack Pearl Harbor.

Your guessing needs a colonoscopy.

You don't need to defend FDR. So why are you?

 

[Robert W]

Maybe but I haven't seen that in the history I have read.

Count on Democrats who far and away are the historians to not bring this up.

I want to return to the question. Why would Japan dare attack us? Not if they did, but why would they? From their angle of view to clarify.

 

[Foxfyre]

Count on Democrats who far and away are the historians to not bring this up.

I want to return to the question. Why would Japan dare attack us? Not if they did, but why would they? From their angle of view to clarify.

Japan was engaged in serious imperialism and with the intent to control all of the Pacific. The U.S. was giving them a lot of push back on that. When Japan invaded and occupied French Indochina--I'm thinking 1940 or 1941?--Roosevelt froze all Japanese assets in the USA to deny Japan ability to purchase oil. Japan made an extremely risky decision to destroy our Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor and force us to negotiate peace. What they didn't count on was that all our carriers were out of port at the time leaving us with a considerable naval force despite the destruction at Pearl Harbor. And as Admiral Yamamoto is famously quoted as saying after it was all done: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." That was of course prophetic.

.

 

[Unkotare]

I was very good friends to Japanese families who told me how horrible it was when FDR locked them into concentration camps where the Army had armed troops guarding them to ensure they would not escape. FDR also banned Jews from entering the USA from Germany. My support for Trump has nothing to do with my comments about FDR.

The U.S. Government Turned Away Thousands of Jewish Refugees, Fearing That They Were Nazi Spies

In a long tradition of “persecuting the refugee,” the State Department and FDR claimed that Jewish immigrants could threaten national security

www.smithsonianmag.com

The U.S. Government Turned Away Thousands of Jewish Refugees, Fearing That They Were Nazi Spies​

In a long tradition of “persecuting the refugee,” the State Department and FDR claimed that Jewish immigrants could threaten national security

Daniel A. Gross
November 18, 2015

That scumbag fdr didn't turn Jews away because he feared they were Nazi spies. He turned them away because he KNEW they were Jews.

 

[Robert W]

Japan was engaged in serious imperialism and with the intent to control all of the Pacific. The U.S. was giving them a lot of push back on that. When Japan invaded and occupied French Indochina--I'm thinking 1940 or 1941?--Roosevelt froze all Japanese assets in the USA to deny Japan ability to purchase oil. Japan made an extremely risky decision to destroy our Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor and force us to negotiate peace. What they didn't count on was that all our carriers were out of port at the time leaving us with a considerable naval force despite the destruction at Pearl Harbor. And as Admiral Yamamoto is famously quoted as saying after it was all done: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." That was of course prophetic.

.

That is more than I asked but still I am pleased with your reply. It mimics what I know about Pearl Harbor. I wonder if Yamamoto really said that since our movies are not truthful much of the time.
You gave excellent reasons why Japan attacked primarily due to acts taken by Roosevelt to damage their economy.

 

[Robert W]

That scumbag fdr didn't turn Jews away because he feared they were Nazi spies. He turned them away because he KNEW they were Jews.

I was in the 2nd grade when FDR died. I know that much of our history is controlled by Democrats. We do have several republicans who explain history and thank god for them.
Reports from the ship that was rejected and sent back to Germany is the FDR president feared they might be Nazi Spies.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

It did help a bit. But the true reason the country left the great depression was due to the US waging war on Japan and Germany and Italy.

The economic bounce-back was well underway when war was declared.

 

[Foxfyre]

That is more than I asked but still I am pleased with your reply. It mimics what I know about Pearl Harbor. I wonder if Yamamoto really said that since our movies are not truthful much of the time.
You gave excellent reasons why Japan attacked primarily due to acts taken by Roosevelt to damage their economy.

The tactics were in response to an unacceptable occupation of French Indochina though and not intended to provoke war. That is a very important factor. It is no different than us imposing sanctions on Russia or Iran or North Korea or anybody out there who is engaged in aggressive or activities that are unacceptable to a civilized and peace loving world.

 

[Robert W]

The tactics were in response to an unacceptable occupation of French Indochina though and not intended to provoke war. That is a very important factor. It is no different than us imposing sanctions on Russia or Iran or North Korea or anybody out there who is engaged in aggressive or activities that are unacceptable to a civilized and peace loving world.

Thanks so much for a good discussion. I know a lot about French Indochina but had not studied what FDR thought about it very much. I will try to learn more from FDRs angle on this topic.

 

[Mac-7]

The economic bounce-back was well underway when war was declared.

Maybe

But rearmament began long before Dec 7th

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Maybe

But rearmament began long before Dec 7th

Exactly, Lend-Lease fueled the industry that we needed to rearm....and put the people back to work.

 

[Unkotare]

He DID use the Lend-Lease policy to bootstrap us out of the Depression..which was a good thing for the US.

The Great Depression Was Ended by the End of World War II, Not the Start of It

Increased government spending does nothing to create economic recovery, growth and prosperity.

www.forbes.com

 

[Unkotare]

The economic bounce-back was well underway when war was declared.

The Great Depression Was Ended by the End of World War II, Not the Start of It

Increased government spending does nothing to create economic recovery, growth and prosperity.

www.forbes.com

 

[Foxfyre]

The economic bounce-back was well underway when war was declared.

This is true. The depression was effectively over by 1938 and the recovery was well underway by the time we declared war on Japan in December 1941. The war hardly brought great prosperity to the rank and file American either. There were extreme shortages of many ordinary commodities as resources were diverted to the war effort but with Americans solidly behind the government and military they stepped up and innovated and got through it. But few got rich due to WWII and those who did prosper did so mostly in spite of WWII.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The Great Depression Was Ended by the End of World War II, Not the Start of It

Increased government spending does nothing to create economic recovery, growth and prosperity.

www.forbes.com

I believe your article--which you were so kind as to post twice, incorrect.
After reading it, I was struck by how often the writer...was moved to ignore the simple facts and bloviate on about how more people employed...bringing more money into the economy--was not progress at all.
This guy has an obvious axe to grind..I don't buy his assumptions or conclusions. BTW, neither do most reputable economists and historians.
From the Link:
True, unemployment did decline at the start of World War II. But that was a statistical residue of sending millions of young American men to fight and die in the war. There are better ways to reduce unemployment, as was shown after the war.
Statistics showed a rise in GDP during the war. But that just reflects misdefined statistical analysis. The military guns, tanks, ships, and planes produced and counted as showing rising GDP did not reflect improved standards of living for working people, or anyone else.

A paycheck is a paycheck.....and more people got one during lend-lease and WWII. More women got one. More Blacks got one.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

This is true. The depression was effectively over by 1938 and the recovery was well underway by the time we declared war on Japan in December 1941. The war hardly brought great prosperity to the rank and file American either. There were extreme shortages of many ordinary commodities as resources were diverted to the war effort but with Americans solidly behind the government and military they stepped up and innovated and got through it. But few got rich due to WWII and those who did prosper did so mostly in spite of WWII.

It did set the stage for the post-war boom...as all those industries tooled up for military goods switched to civilian...and modern advertising fueled rampant consumerism.
The Boomer era had begun--what many think of as the high point of the United States...the next 6o years.
Soon we must pay the Piper..err..should I say our Grand-kids must pay---our lives were fantastic!

 

[Unkotare]

No, you were loathe to give America any credit at all

That is WRONG, of course.

 

[Unkotare]

I believe your article--which you were so kind as to post twice, incorrect.
After reading it, I was struck by how often the writer...was moved to ignore the simple facts and bloviate on about how more people employed...bringing more money into the economy--was not progress at all.
This guy has an obvious axe to grind..I don't buy his assumptions or conclusions. BTW, neither do most reputable economists and historians.
From the Link:
True, unemployment did decline at the start of World War II. But that was a statistical residue of sending millions of young American men to fight and die in the war. There are better ways to reduce unemployment, as was shown after the war.
Statistics showed a rise in GDP during the war. But that just reflects misdefined statistical analysis. The military guns, tanks, ships, and planes produced and counted as showing rising GDP did not reflect improved standards of living for working people, or anyone else.

A paycheck is a paycheck.....and more people got one during lend-lease and WWII. More women got one. More Blacks got one.

FDR’s policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate

www.ff.org

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

FDR’s policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate

www.ff.org

Yes this is true, and no, it has nothing to do with the topic we were discussing.
Yes, some of the early flailing about in the early years of FDR's administration was not helpful, to say the least.
However, the ending of the Depression was, in my, and other's opinions--the product of Lend-lease and the tooling up of America's heavy industries.
The serendipitous results of bringing women and minorities into the workplace set the stage for economic boom.....in fact, THE economic Boom.