What do liberals want the US to be?

[Steinlight]

That argument is obvious yet the bottom 50% of America's earners don't pay any federal income tax, meaning they get a free ride on that interstate. The question is: what gov't provided "common good" do we want and who is to pay for it?

Bottom 50% who made 12% of ALL US income? lol


Poor Americans Pay Double The State, Local Tax Rates Of Top One Percent


Overall, the poorest 20 percent of households paid an average 10.9 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes in 2007, while the top 1 percent on average paid just 5.2 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes, according to the study.


Poor Americans Pay Double The State Local Tax Rates Of Top One Percent

The less wealthy have access to the same local and state facilities and services as the rich (and make use of them far more often). Thanks to our progressive tax system, they pay far less for them than do the rich.

80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America Wealth Income and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated


Total U.S. taxes are barely progressive, as shown in this table and chart from Citizens for Tax Justice. The bottom 99 percent pays a 27.5 percent total tax rate on average, while the top 1 percent pays an average 29 percent tax rate, according to 2011 data from Citizens for Tax Justice.

Poor Americans Pay Double The State Local Tax Rates Of Top One Percent

I know the pain intimately ... my real estate holdings (I'm a developer) took a hit in 2006/2007 (about $2mil) from which I will never recover. Nevertheless I am not willing to kill the goose which laid the golden egg - something you seem eager to do - just to assuage my pain.

KILL THE GOOSE? Oh you mean the Banksters who hosed US via the GOP in 1920's, 1980's (Ronnie ignored regulator warnings just like Dubya) and 2008?


FACTS on Dubya s great recession US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

You should get better material, or perhaps grow a brain?

The majority of Democrats and Republicans voted for the bailouts(minus conservative and democratic socialist opposition on the wings of the parties. And Glass Steagall was repealed by Clinton, which was responsible for allowing commercial banks to merge with investment banks and threaten the solvency of regular depositors accounts. To reduce every problem to blaming Bush or the Republicans is dishonest.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

I used to be a liberal once, it used to mean freedom within reason. Now, Liberalism means chaos, banishing responsibility, rights to anything that can buy beg or reason period. Gays, illegals, UFO/Big foot believers, anything goes with liberals NOW.

Such is the nature of evil. It besets its host, crippling the means to respect any standard... until with all sense of propriety banished, the host simply degrades beyond any potential for viability and upon its demise the process begins anew with the infection of a new host.

 

[Flash]

The truth is that 86% of Americans pay taxes. In one recession strapped year (2009), less than half of single filer taxpayers paid federal income taxes.


The 47% statistic is not all Americans pay no taxes, but single filers who will pay no federal income taxes. According to the Center On Budget and Policy Priorities the real reason why 47%-51% of Americans paid no federal income taxes in 2009 is,

The 51 percent figure is an anomaly that reflects the unique circumstances of 2009, when the recession greatly swelled the number of Americans with low incomes and when temporary tax cuts created by the 2009 Recovery Act — including the “Making Work Pay” tax credit and an exclusion from tax of the first $2,400 in unemployment benefits — were in effect. Together, these developments removed millions of Americans from the federal income tax rolls. Both of these temporary tax measures have since expired.

Only a Libtard that loves taxes so much would be satisfied with a trillion a year income tax being paid by only half the people in the US. Where is the equity in that?

When the greedy shitheads that get their government welfare checks for free by not paying their share of an income tax then they have no incentive to vote in fiscally responsible government, which is the reason you have assholes like Obama being elected.

However, the inequity with a progressive income tax and not half the people paying it is not the real problem. The real problem is that the filthy ass combined government of the US (Fed, State and Local) takes over 40% of the GNP and that is a tremendous burden on everyone poor and rich and the reason why our economy sucks so much. Not only that but the big government shitheads are so greedy that 40% of the GNP is not enough so the combined governments have to borrow about $2 trillion additional each year.

The best way to stay out of poverty is not ever vote a Liberal.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Bottom 50% who made 12% of ALL US income? lol


Poor Americans Pay Double The State, Local Tax Rates Of Top One Percent


Overall, the poorest 20 percent of households paid an average 10.9 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes in 2007, while the top 1 percent on average paid just 5.2 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes, according to the study.


Poor Americans Pay Double The State Local Tax Rates Of Top One Percent

The less wealthy have access to the same local and state facilities and services as the rich (and make use of them far more often). Thanks to our progressive tax system, they pay far less for them than do the rich.

80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America Wealth Income and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated


Total U.S. taxes are barely progressive, as shown in this table and chart from Citizens for Tax Justice. The bottom 99 percent pays a 27.5 percent total tax rate on average, while the top 1 percent pays an average 29 percent tax rate, according to 2011 data from Citizens for Tax Justice.

Poor Americans Pay Double The State Local Tax Rates Of Top One Percent

I know the pain intimately ... my real estate holdings (I'm a developer) took a hit in 2006/2007 (about $2mil) from which I will never recover. Nevertheless I am not willing to kill the goose which laid the golden egg - something you seem eager to do - just to assuage my pain.

KILL THE GOOSE? Oh you mean the Banksters who hosed US via the GOP in 1920's, 1980's (Ronnie ignored regulator warnings just like Dubya) and 2008?


FACTS on Dubya s great recession US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

You should get better material, or perhaps grow a brain?

The majority of Democrats and Republicans voted for the bailouts(minus conservative and democratic socialist opposition on the wings of the parties. And Glass Steagall was repealed by Clinton, which was responsible for allowing commercial banks to merge with investment banks and threaten the solvency of regular depositors accounts. To reduce every problem to blaming Bush or the Republicans is dishonest.

As trite as it seems, the simple fact is that the Ideological Left cannot exist in an honest environment. Where Honesty is required the Ideological Left will simply vanish, as a concept.

 

[Dad2three]

That's what you clowns said about social security and medicare, and guess what, they are both still here.

Social Security will eventually go to a hand to mouth set up when the surplus goes away.

It won't go bankrupt. But all the seniors you've duped into living on 1000/month will be living on 759/month.

That's a raging success.

Sure, the US will not fix it, like we have dozens of times *shaking head*

SS keeps 50% of seniors out of poverty. Conservatives want to go back to NO safety nets, lol

If Democrats care about entitlements, why did they support raiding Social Security to pay for the quagmire they voted for in Iraq, or support raiding Medicare to fund Obamacare?

They may talk like they care about preserving the social safety net, but they just use it as a third rail for votes.

ANOTHER lie. Shocking. WHEN and how did Dems 'raid' SS to pay for Dubya's war of choice which 60% of Dems in Congress voted against? Raid Medicare? lol

Obamacare 'raids' Medicare? Not exactly

The 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act slows the growth in Medicare spending in several ways, including smaller automatic increases in payment rates for treatment providers and lower subsidies for private insurers. These two changes account for the largest savings -- $571 billion over 10 years, by the Congressional Budget Office's estimate. Both of them operate on the theory that the recipients of Medicare dollars can and should deliver better value of the money.

Obamacare raids Medicare Not exactly - Los Angeles Times

To be clear, 58% of Democratic Senators voted for it, and 39% of Democrats in the House. Kerry voted for the resolution, Obama voted for its continued funding, and the current front runner Hilary Clinton supported the resolution. I don't deny the grasroots democrats opposed Iraq(though they were curiously silent on intervention in Yugoslavia, Somalia, Libya, Syria etc), but the leadership is hawkish and pro-intervention.

So, it isn't a "lol" matter. The fact that you overlook it just shows your narrow minded attitude and partisanship.

And now you are just playing word games with Obamacare. The bill takes money that was to go towards automatic increases in Medicare spending and put it towards Obamacare. That is raiding Medicare. They are redirecting future medicare spending. You just don't mind what they are redirecting towards.

BZZZ a FUKKKKKING LIE. Shocking

Iraq Resolution

United States House of Representatives

82 (39.2%) of 209 Democratic Representatives voted for the resolution.

• 126 (~60.3%) of 209 Democratic Representatives voted against the resolution.

The only Independent Representative voted against the resolution: Rep. Sanders (I-VT)

United States Senate

58% of Democratic senators (29 of 50) voted for the resolution.
42% of Democratic senators (21 of 50) voted against the resolution.


AGAIN, 60% OF DEMS IN CONGRESS VOTED AGAINST DUBYA'S WARE OF CHOICE. You said Dems, not leadership


And YOU are being dishonest on Obamacares, the future payments aren't guaranteed AND the GOP used the same formula and TOOK the money out of Medicare and used it in Ryans budget which 100% of GOPers voted yes for in the House, BUT PUT THE MONEY TOWARDS TAX CUTS, LOL!

 

[Flash]

Iraq Resolution

United States House of Representatives

82 (39.2%) of 209 Democratic Representatives voted for the resolution.

• 126 (~60.3%) of 209 Democratic Representatives voted against the resolution.

The only Independent Representative voted against the resolution: Rep. Sanders (I-VT)

United States Senate

58% of Democratic senators (29 of 50) voted for the resolution.
42% of Democratic senators (21 of 50) voted against the resolution.


AGAIN, 60% OF DEMS IN CONGRESS VOTED AGAINST DUBYA'S WARE OF CHOICE. You said Dems, not leadership

Clinton was one of them that did vote to fund the Iraq War and if she is the Democrat nominee I suspect Libtards like you would run to vote for her just as fast as your little cub feet would carry you.

 

[Dad2three]

Oh snap, more right wing bullshit (SNIP)

LOL riiiight the liberal jobs killing regulations are not pushing jobs off-shore. I suppose even those Democrats in congress who are fighting these regulations because its costing their districts jobs are in on your big conspiracy?

8 years of Dubya/GOP 'job creator' policies and they lot 1+ million jobs inn 8 years (NOT including the 4+ million lost in 2009)



Obama has NET 7+ million PRIVATE sector jobs since 2009

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data



Good snip, ONCE AGAIN:



Misrepresentations, Regulations and Jobs

No hard evidence is offered for this claim; it is simply asserted as self-evident and repeated endlessly throughout the conservative echo chamber.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/regulation-and-unemployment/

Posting a blogger's thoughts in large font does not add any cred to them. Bartlett is a disgruntled Repub who just this October tried to make the case that Obama is a Republican. Yeah ... OK.

lol, So NO, ALL the DETAILED points he made about the BULLSHIT PREMISE of regulations killing jobs, should be tossed out the window because he SHOWED Obama governing right of Reagan on MANY items!!!

No, but he's a blogger because anyone can cherry-pick facts to make any point one chooses to.

I'm sorry that a guy who is STILL a Reagan Republican hasn't went bat shit crazy like you other wing nuts and lives in REALITY. He didn't 'pick facts, he gave you a FUKKKKKING BOATLOAD OF THEM. AGAIN:

As one can see, the number of layoffs nationwide caused by government regulation is minuscule and shows no evidence of getting worse during the Obama administration. Lack of demand for business products and services is vastly more important.

These results are supported by surveys. During June and July, Small Business Majority asked 1,257 small-business owners to name the two biggest problems they face. Only 13 percent listed government regulation as one of them. Almost half said their biggest problem was uncertainty about the future course of the economy — another way of saying a lack of customers and sales.

The Wall Street Journal’s July survey of business economists found, “The main reason U.S. companies are reluctant to step up hiring is scant demand, rather than uncertainty over government policies, according to a majority of economists.”

In August, McClatchy Newspapers canvassed small businesses, asking them if regulation was a big problem. It could find no evidence that this was the case.

“None of the business owners complained about regulation in their particular industries, and most seemed to welcome it,” McClatchy reported. “Some pointed to the lack of regulation in mortgage lending as a principal cause of the financial crisis that brought about the Great Recession of 2007-9 and its grim aftermath.”

The latest monthly survey of its members by the National Federation of Independent Business shows that poor sales are far and away their biggest problem. While concerns about regulation have risen during the Obama administration, they are about the same now as they were during Ronald Reagan’s administration, according to an analysis of the federation’s data by the Economic Policy Institute.

Academic research has also failed to find evidence that regulation is a significant factor in unemployment. In a blog post on Sept. 5, Jay Livingston, a sociologist at Montclair State University, hypothesized that if regulation were a major problem it would show up in the unemployment rates of industries where regulation has been increasing: the financial sector, medical care and mining/fuel extraction. He found that unemployment rates in these sectors were actually well below the national average. Unemployment is much higher in those industries that one would expect to suffer most from a lack of aggregate demand: construction, leisure and hospitality, business services, wholesale and retail trade, and durable goods.

Gary Burtless, an economist at the Brookings Institution, asserts that if businesses were really concerned about rising regulations, they would be investing now to avoid them. But there is no indication that this is the case. “The real reason for anemic investment and hiring is that businesses are not confident there will be enough potential customers to justify expansion or even routine capital replacement right now,” he says.

In my opinion, regulatory uncertainty is a canard invented by Republicans that allows them to use current economic problems to pursue an agenda supported by the business community year in and year out. In other words, it is a simple case of political opportunism, not a serious effort to deal with high unemployment.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/regulation-and-unemployment/?_r=0


YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO REFUTE HIM? lol Didn't think so!!!

 

[Dad2three]

To clarify, liberals are materialist in that they advance the agenda of transnational capital(the economic "elite"). They are nihilistic in regards to their promotion of moral and cultural relativism under their banner of promoting "equality".

The GOP are more or less big business liberals. They have no moral principles and are not patriotic in any sense, but are more blatant in their support of our current kleptocracy.

Your confusing liberal with Democratic party!

No I am not.

Liberalism is a destructive utopian ideology that fails to recognize the social aspect of mankind, reducing man to a purely material being(economics uber alles) and supporting a blind drive towards "liberty" and "equality" regardless of the consequences.

YOUR posit of 'liberals'

"are materialist in that they advance the agenda of transnational capital(the economic "elite"). They are nihilistic in regards to their promotion of moral and cultural relativism under their banner of promoting "equality".-"

Just more right wing noise void of honesty or logic.


It must be nice to live in such a black and white world as the one inhabited by conservative polemists like Rush Limbaugh...

It must be nice to live in a world where you just classify everyone you disagree with as a Limbaugh listener and ignore what they say so you can keep your world view in tact. It must be sad to have an identity based on an ignorant world view.

Besides, Limbaugh is a neo-conservative, I don't agree with him on many issues. At least be more accurate in your insults.

Sure Bubba, Sure. You seem like a better fit with Klown boy Beck though

 

[Flash]

And YOU are being dishonest on Obamacares, the future payments aren't guaranteed AND the GOP used the same formula and TOOK the money out of Medicare and used it in Ryans budget which 100% of GOPers voted yes for in the House, BUT PUT THE MONEY TOWARDS TAX CUTS, LOL!

Why vote for any Democrat or Republican that supports in any way a stupid program like Obmacare? That is really dumb, isn't it?

We elect stupid representatives and then we cry about the consequences of getting bad government.

 

[Dad2three]

To clarify, liberals are materialist in that they advance the agenda of transnational capital(the economic "elite"). They are nihilistic in regards to their promotion of moral and cultural relativism under their banner of promoting "equality".

The GOP are more or less big business liberals. They have no moral principles and are not patriotic in any sense, but are more blatant in their support of our current kleptocracy.

Your confusing liberal with Democratic party!

No I am not.

Liberalism is a destructive utopian ideology that fails to recognize the social aspect of mankind, reducing man to a purely material being(economics uber alles) and supporting a blind drive towards "liberty" and "equality" regardless of the consequences.

LOL riiiight the liberal jobs killing regulations are not pushing jobs off-shore. I suppose even those Democrats in congress who are fighting these regulations because its costing their districts jobs are in on your big conspiracy?

8 years of Dubya/GOP 'job creator' policies and they lot 1+ million jobs inn 8 years (NOT including the 4+ million lost in 2009)



Obama has NET 7+ million PRIVATE sector jobs since 2009

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data



Good snip, ONCE AGAIN:



Misrepresentations, Regulations and Jobs

No hard evidence is offered for this claim; it is simply asserted as self-evident and repeated endlessly throughout the conservative echo chamber.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/regulation-and-unemployment/

Posting a blogger's thoughts in large font does not add any cred to them. Bartlett is a disgruntled Repub who just this October tried to make the case that Obama is a Republican. Yeah ... OK.

To clarify, liberals are materialist in that they advance the agenda of transnational capital(the economic "elite"). They are nihilistic in regards to their promotion of moral and cultural relativism under their banner of promoting "equality".

The GOP are more or less big business liberals. They have no moral principles and are not patriotic in any sense, but are more blatant in their support of our current kleptocracy.

Your confusing liberal with Democratic party!

No I am not.

Liberalism is a destructive utopian ideology that fails to recognize the social aspect of mankind, reducing man to a purely material being(economics uber alles) and supporting a blind drive towards "liberty" and "equality" regardless of the consequences.

It also has an arrogance associated with it that assumes the elite know what's best for everyone. Like all 310,000,000 people in the U.S. are cut from the same cloth.

LOL! But that's just the same old crap the Left has been pushing from the Progressive days of the Eugenicists.

The Left is a lie... from soup to Liberals. There's not an iota of truth represented in so much as a single facet of Left-think.

To be fair, the right has it's fair share of disingenuous losers who hide behind ideology to achieve their goals.

I believe in the fundamentals of conservatism as I define it (not the morons like dudpeepee or rightwanker).

Within the scope of limited government is the human experience. When people are doing what they "should" as dictated by their conciences.....things go pretty well.

YET THIS KLOWN OR ANY OTHER RIGHT WINGER HERE CAN'T SEEM TO POINT TO A SUCCESSFUL LIBERTARIAN GOV'T ANYWHERE, EVER? Weird isn't it?

 

[rightwinger]

60 pages and the posts all start to look like the same 100 posts that have been put up before. In 100 threads before.

Sorry.....but here are the facts.

In 2008, the GOP was a mess. That was, in large part, due to GWB and his stupid wars. Many conservatives didn't like going to war and we certainly didn't like the democratic like spending he was doing. He lost the house and senate in 2006.

In 2008, thank to GWB, Pelosi and Reid, we hit a wall and things tanked.

In 2008, running in the spirit of Hope and Change, BHO was elected POTUS of the United States.

The country was in a recession (not ascribing blame....simply stating)

In 2010, the unthinkable occured. The GOP (slated for obsolesence) took back the house. The GOP also gained six or seven seats in the senate.

In 2012, BHO was re-elected. The democrats actually gained two seats in the senate.

In 2014, the GOP took the senate (including "safe" seats in places like CO) and strengthened it's hold on the house.

All along the GOP has been steadily taking up state houses and governorships.

In all this, you see the federal government doing not much of anything.

While states like Wisconsin, under the leadership of Scott Walker are making strides (but by their own admission have much more to do).

I really don't give a rats ass who wins in 2016. Give back the senate or not, the GOP will hold the house stongly (and maybe will even win more) and the federal government, by the GOG will continue to do nothing.

If Obamacare continues on it's present course, it will be a side show in the years to come.

All of this looks pretty good to those of us who don't want a strong central government.

This country is so screwed that it can't be fixed just by kicking out the Democrats and replacing them with Republicans because at the end of the day there isn't much difference. They are both parties of big government. We saw that the other day with that horrendous budget appropriation passed by the Republican controlled House and the Democrat controlled Senate that gave Obama most of what he wanted.

Gave the GOP a lot of what they wanted too. Don't forget we told you the GOP would stop being fiscally responsible the moment they got in charge. Reagan and Bush both doubled the debt too. The GOP only got fiscally tight when it was Obama and Pelosi and Reed in charge. The GOP spend even more just on defense contractors who hide their money abroad, not union workers who are going to spend that money in America.

Reagan raised the debt 2 trillion in eight years and provided Clinton with a good economy to further reduce it.

I wished that Reagan had gotten more tight fisted near the end.

Obama will have raised it 10 trillion by the time he is done.

Reagan tripled the debt and crippled future president with his tax rates

He handed off to Bush not Clinton

Yeah, and Obama only doubled his.

You libs are way to funny.

Yes, he handed off to Bush....but the momentum of the economy worked for Billy Boy....who did a good job with it.

So the economy kinda skipped Bush then.......you guys can be so creative

 

[Steinlight]

Social Security will eventually go to a hand to mouth set up when the surplus goes away.

It won't go bankrupt. But all the seniors you've duped into living on 1000/month will be living on 759/month.

That's a raging success.

Sure, the US will not fix it, like we have dozens of times *shaking head*

SS keeps 50% of seniors out of poverty. Conservatives want to go back to NO safety nets, lol

If Democrats care about entitlements, why did they support raiding Social Security to pay for the quagmire they voted for in Iraq, or support raiding Medicare to fund Obamacare?

They may talk like they care about preserving the social safety net, but they just use it as a third rail for votes.

ANOTHER lie. Shocking. WHEN and how did Dems 'raid' SS to pay for Dubya's war of choice which 60% of Dems in Congress voted against? Raid Medicare? lol

Obamacare 'raids' Medicare? Not exactly

The 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act slows the growth in Medicare spending in several ways, including smaller automatic increases in payment rates for treatment providers and lower subsidies for private insurers. These two changes account for the largest savings -- $571 billion over 10 years, by the Congressional Budget Office's estimate. Both of them operate on the theory that the recipients of Medicare dollars can and should deliver better value of the money.

Obamacare raids Medicare Not exactly - Los Angeles Times

To be clear, 58% of Democratic Senators voted for it, and 39% of Democrats in the House. Kerry voted for the resolution, Obama voted for its continued funding, and the current front runner Hilary Clinton supported the resolution. I don't deny the grasroots democrats opposed Iraq(though they were curiously silent on intervention in Yugoslavia, Somalia, Libya, Syria etc), but the leadership is hawkish and pro-intervention.

So, it isn't a "lol" matter. The fact that you overlook it just shows your narrow minded attitude and partisanship.

And now you are just playing word games with Obamacare. The bill takes money that was to go towards automatic increases in Medicare spending and put it towards Obamacare. That is raiding Medicare. They are redirecting future medicare spending. You just don't mind what they are redirecting towards.

BZZZ a FUKKKKKING LIE. Shocking

Iraq Resolution

United States House of Representatives

82 (39.2%) of 209 Democratic Representatives voted for the resolution.

• 126 (~60.3%) of 209 Democratic Representatives voted against the resolution.

The only Independent Representative voted against the resolution: Rep. Sanders (I-VT)

United States Senate

58% of Democratic senators (29 of 50) voted for the resolution.
42% of Democratic senators (21 of 50) voted against the resolution.


AGAIN, 60% OF DEMS IN CONGRESS VOTED AGAINST DUBYA'S WARE OF CHOICE. You said Dems, not leadership


And YOU are being dishonest on Obamacares, the future payments aren't guaranteed AND the GOP used the same formula and TOOK the money out of Medicare and used it in Ryans budget which 100% of GOPers voted yes for in the House, BUT PUT THE MONEY TOWARDS TAX CUTS, LOL!

Your "evidence" just confirmed what I said, 58% of Democrats in the Senate voted for the Iraq War Resolution, and 39% of House Democrats.

I don't understand what you are ranting about here. Using caps makes you look crazy as well.

And your next point makes no sense. You support Obamacare cutting future Medicare payments because the GOP House Plan does as well? Again, what's your point?

 

[Dad2three]

Your confusing liberal with Democratic party!

No I am not.

Liberalism is a destructive utopian ideology that fails to recognize the social aspect of mankind, reducing man to a purely material being(economics uber alles) and supporting a blind drive towards "liberty" and "equality" regardless of the consequences.

8 years of Dubya/GOP 'job creator' policies and they lot 1+ million jobs inn 8 years (NOT including the 4+ million lost in 2009)



Obama has NET 7+ million PRIVATE sector jobs since 2009

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data



Good snip, ONCE AGAIN:



Misrepresentations, Regulations and Jobs

No hard evidence is offered for this claim; it is simply asserted as self-evident and repeated endlessly throughout the conservative echo chamber.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/regulation-and-unemployment/

Posting a blogger's thoughts in large font does not add any cred to them. Bartlett is a disgruntled Repub who just this October tried to make the case that Obama is a Republican. Yeah ... OK.

Your confusing liberal with Democratic party!

No I am not.

Liberalism is a destructive utopian ideology that fails to recognize the social aspect of mankind, reducing man to a purely material being(economics uber alles) and supporting a blind drive towards "liberty" and "equality" regardless of the consequences.

It also has an arrogance associated with it that assumes the elite know what's best for everyone. Like all 310,000,000 people in the U.S. are cut from the same cloth.

LOL! But that's just the same old crap the Left has been pushing from the Progressive days of the Eugenicists.

The Left is a lie... from soup to Liberals. There's not an iota of truth represented in so much as a single facet of Left-think.

To be fair, the right has it's fair share of disingenuous losers who hide behind ideology to achieve their goals.

I believe in the fundamentals of conservatism as I define it (not the morons like dudpeepee or rightwanker).

Within the scope of limited government is the human experience. When people are doing what they "should" as dictated by their conciences.....things go pretty well.

Not just a limited central government, but a decentralized government. There needs to be a devolution of powers to avoid the increasing political, economic and social costs of an artificially large state(see economies of scale, the same principle applies with governments). Simply put, America has far too many people to effectively and properly govern through a growing Federal Government. As our population grows, we will have to decentralize power from the federal bureaucracy to avoid the problems that the USSR faced and the EU is currently facing.

MORE right wing nonsense. Shocking. We tried that with the Articles of Confederation remember?

YOU WANT TO COMPARE THE US, A NATION, TO MANY NATIONS OF THE EU? Or USSR (Failed system, that became Gangster Russia)? lol

I thought you might be serious, just another right wing Klown

 

[Steinlight]

To clarify, liberals are materialist in that they advance the agenda of transnational capital(the economic "elite"). They are nihilistic in regards to their promotion of moral and cultural relativism under their banner of promoting "equality".

The GOP are more or less big business liberals. They have no moral principles and are not patriotic in any sense, but are more blatant in their support of our current kleptocracy.

Your confusing liberal with Democratic party!

No I am not.

Liberalism is a destructive utopian ideology that fails to recognize the social aspect of mankind, reducing man to a purely material being(economics uber alles) and supporting a blind drive towards "liberty" and "equality" regardless of the consequences.

YOUR posit of 'liberals'

"are materialist in that they advance the agenda of transnational capital(the economic "elite"). They are nihilistic in regards to their promotion of moral and cultural relativism under their banner of promoting "equality".-"

Just more right wing noise void of honesty or logic.


It must be nice to live in such a black and white world as the one inhabited by conservative polemists like Rush Limbaugh...

It must be nice to live in a world where you just classify everyone you disagree with as a Limbaugh listener and ignore what they say so you can keep your world view in tact. It must be sad to have an identity based on an ignorant world view.

Besides, Limbaugh is a neo-conservative, I don't agree with him on many issues. At least be more accurate in your insults.

Sure Bubba, Sure. You seem like a better fit with Klown boy Beck though

Isn't he a Libertarian or something? I am no such thing. All I know is you watch and think about these radio commentators more than I do.

 

[Flash]

Almost half said their biggest problem was uncertainty about the future course of the economy — another way of saying a lack of customers and sales.

The Wall Street Journal’s July survey of business economists found, “The main reason U.S. companies are reluctant to step up hiring is scant demand,

I don't think you are smart enough to understand this. Being a stupid Libtard you aren't very smart at all. Lack of customers and sales and scant demand is the result of six years (eight if you include the 2006 Democrat elected Congress) of Obama's unfriendly business polices that includes increased taxation, burdensome regulations, war on corporations, crony capitalism and uncertainty about the future. It is the whole enchilada you dumb ****!

When you have the lowest workforce participation rate since that idiot Carter was President then you don't have enough demand for goods and services.

Obama and the Democrats have screwed up this economy big time and can't run from that. Too bad the equally as shitty Republicans don't have the backbone to put a stop to Obama's destruction of this country.

 

[Dad2three]

To be fair, the right has it's fair share of disingenuous losers who hide behind ideology to achieve their goals.

I believe in the fundamentals of conservatism as I define it (not the morons like dudpeepee or rightwanker).

Within the scope of limited government is the human experience. When people are doing what they "should" as dictated by their conciences.....things go pretty well.

The problem is that you state that those individuals are RWs and they're nothing remotely akin to such.

Americans, those who recognize, respect, defend and adhere to the principles in nature that define America and, while never perfect human beings, are objective in their reasoning thus do not claim that their shortcomings are 'natural' thus, should not be discouraged by arcane cultural mores and should be promoted as preferred above principled, sustainable behavior typified by those mores and stationed within the standards that also recognize those natural laws.

This issue is not 'he said she said', one person's opinion is equal to the next... this issue is about soundly reasoned ideas, which come about from the observation of those natural laws, and the rejection of those laws by a perversion of human reasoning, which is animated by a force in nature which is threatened by those laws and the expression of those laws.

It's truly not even a debatable point, as the evidence of such is obvious to me and should be obvious to every American. And things only 'go well' where the consciousnesses of those of sound reason are practiced. When the consciousnesses of the Left are practiced, we find men marrying men, the Senate claiming that keeping mass-murderers awake is TORTURE, that those who ran on reducing the deficit, DOUBLE THE DEBT IN 6 YEARS, the IRS runs to prosecute innocent people who's crime is that they were trying to form a political opposition to the people executing the IRS and that Riots resulted ALL OVER THE MISSLE EAST from an online video, prolonged stagnation, legalized drugs, etc., etc.

IT'S A SCANDAL IT'S A SCANDAL, IT'S A SCANDAL, SCANDAL I TELL YOU,

SCANDAL,SCANDAL,SCANDAL!!!!!!!


No I don't know what, where, when or who but give Issa more time and there will be a scandal, there will be I know Obama did it, I know he did, Fox said so..



Invariably, when people go off the rails, they become more conservative. No one loses their mind and becomes more liberal. Conservatism is where people go when one capacity or another begins to fail them. It's the consequence of failure, and it's usually accompanied by more of the same.



When reasoning and logic start to go, a person tends to start agreeing with Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh

 

[Dad2three]

You're so stupid it's funny. The point of this discussion is I mocked you for saying Republicans are Black and White. And you're repeating, duh, dar, you're not a Democrat (true) so you're a Republican (false). Drool, there are nothing but Republicans and Democrats, so if you're not a Democrat you have to be a Republican? What are you talking about?

That's your answer to my mocking you for being black and white, that you are black and white? Classic. What a moron.

Sure Bubba, sure

There are 2 parties (PERIOD, NO 3rd party since 1992 has done squat) the US. Weird how SOOOOOO many conservatives don't support either party, lol

Libertarians are frauds and parasites. Period

We are parasites, not wanting government money. LOL. you are a tool.

Yeah, I just love that "logic." Of course, it's just another example of the liberal propaganda technique where they accuse their critics of everything they are guilty of.

Libertarians are frauds and parasites but unfortunately have been successful in hiding their dangerous disease under war hating, and freedom loving. Sadly their freedom isn't freedom, it is chaos and opens the door to a real loss of democracy.



They unwittingly use the protections, benefits and accomplishments government has to offer to create their fortunes, while pompously declaring they did it all on their own.

Clueless igets, everyone.

LOL, the idea of government not taking care of you is just pure terror, isn't it?

LOL, False premises, distortions and lies, without them the cons would have nothing to say...

 

[Dad2three]

Right, you didn't BENEFIT from our roads, schools, military, etc.

Fukkking dumbass, go do it in a 3rd world nation then!!

That isn't what I said, Einstein. You had nothing to do with roads, schools and the military. I funded those. Businesses drive our economy. You had nothing to do with providing them. Illiteracy sucks. If you went to college, you should sue them to get your money back.

just a mere handful did....it was the lowest participation in an election in 40 years.... all liberals have to do in 2016 is show up to vote, then your ass is grass again.... but you all know that, this is why the republicans always focus on reducing the numbers that vote, like gvt picture voter id laws and reducing the number of days early voting is available and reducing the hours of early voting, and reducing the number of voting machines in crowded democratic districts, and telling students they should stay home election day, and promoting that women shouldn't vote etc etc etc etc....

IT'S ALL ABOUT trying to STOP citizens from voting for Republicans....they know it is the only way they can win...

Sorry to break it to you, but it's a handful either way.

Let's see fact based evidence of your claims.

You really think you lost Colorado because the GOP blocked voting ?

Please, run for office.....you'd make it easy for us.

I didn't say they won because they BLOCKED voting, you made that up yourself....

Then you can explain the democrats loss of a key senate seat in Colorado.

Looking forward to it.

A president’s party rarely does well in midterm elections, and that’s been particularly true in a president’s second term. And the country has still not fully recovered from the Great Recession



Colorado voters elected Representative Cory Gardner, the Republican challenger, as their new senator on Tuesday, rejecting the incumbent Mark Udall as a Democrat too closely tied to President Obama and as a candidate who ran a one-note campaign focused on the politics of abortion.

Mr. Udall’s campaign echoed what Republicans called a “war on women” strategy, casting Mr. Gardner as a rigid opponent of abortion who supported legal rights for embryos and whose positions could outlaw some forms of birth control.



Mr. Gardner’s camp did everything possible to weld Mr. Udall and Mr. Obama together in voters’ minds, focusing in particular on Mr. Udall’s support for a health care overhaul. Ad after ad by Republicans and outside conservative groups declared that Mr. Udall voted with the president 99 percent of the time.

“Coloradans, it doesn’t matter if you’re a Republican or a Democrat. They want someone who’s independent, who’s there for them. It’s really a Western thing.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/05/us/udall-loses-senate-seat-to-gardner-a-republican.html

These midterms were losses on historic levels. You can write them off if you like without dealing with that, please do.

Sure, remember that in 2016 when we retake the Senate and elect the next Dem Prez (hopefully Eliz Warren)

 

[Steinlight]

No I am not.

Liberalism is a destructive utopian ideology that fails to recognize the social aspect of mankind, reducing man to a purely material being(economics uber alles) and supporting a blind drive towards "liberty" and "equality" regardless of the consequences.

Posting a blogger's thoughts in large font does not add any cred to them. Bartlett is a disgruntled Repub who just this October tried to make the case that Obama is a Republican. Yeah ... OK.

No I am not.

Liberalism is a destructive utopian ideology that fails to recognize the social aspect of mankind, reducing man to a purely material being(economics uber alles) and supporting a blind drive towards "liberty" and "equality" regardless of the consequences.

It also has an arrogance associated with it that assumes the elite know what's best for everyone. Like all 310,000,000 people in the U.S. are cut from the same cloth.

LOL! But that's just the same old crap the Left has been pushing from the Progressive days of the Eugenicists.

The Left is a lie... from soup to Liberals. There's not an iota of truth represented in so much as a single facet of Left-think.

To be fair, the right has it's fair share of disingenuous losers who hide behind ideology to achieve their goals.

I believe in the fundamentals of conservatism as I define it (not the morons like dudpeepee or rightwanker).

Within the scope of limited government is the human experience. When people are doing what they "should" as dictated by their conciences.....things go pretty well.

Not just a limited central government, but a decentralized government. There needs to be a devolution of powers to avoid the increasing political, economic and social costs of an artificially large state(see economies of scale, the same principle applies with governments). Simply put, America has far too many people to effectively and properly govern through a growing Federal Government. As our population grows, we will have to decentralize power from the federal bureaucracy to avoid the problems that the USSR faced and the EU is currently facing.

MORE right wing nonsense. Shocking. We tried that with the Articles of Confederation remember?

YOU WANT TO COMPARE THE US, A NATION, TO MANY NATIONS OF THE EU? Or USSR (Failed system, that became Gangster Russia)? lol

I thought you might be serious, just another right wing Klown

Tried what? The Articles of Confederation effectively had no central governing body at all, and no one is advocating this. The Constitution most certainly calls for a Federal Government, but limited to strict and defined powers(See article I, II, and III of the Constitution), and the 10th Amendment explicitly reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the Federal Government. You need to read up on the concepts of Separation of Powers and Federalism.

Yes, I do, because the US is not immune to history. Heavily centralized bureaurcracies have failed throughout history and are never sustainable, economically or politically.

 

[Dad2three]

Equal opportunities. A place where everyone plays by the same rules and not having separate rules if you're rich or white than if you're poor or a minority.

Democracy does not not produce equal opportunity. It produces thievery by the plurality.

Using the force of government to take money from those that earned it and giving it those that elected the government is nothing more than thievery no matter how you look at it.

We the people my friend. Our government is us. We the people collectively bettering its society by having social programs that do that.

You are right. The idiots in the US are responsible for this out of control government and this bloated welfare state. It is greed.

Did you know that Social Security drastically reduced the number of elderly in poverty?

Do you know that Social Security has a 65 trillion dollar entitlement liability that is going to bankrupt this country in a few years? Especially with this idiot Obama putting all the illegals on it. The filthy government has spent the money that the people have paid into SS on other things and that is one of the main reasons we have to borrow almost a trillion dollars a year to fund the government.

I can be responsible for my own retirement thank you very much. I don't need the damn government screwing it up for me like they screw up everything else they touch..

Were you aware that the ACA has reduced the number of people without heath insurance by a large margin?

First of all being without health insurance in the US does not mean you don't get heath care if you need it. There were plenty of programs to provide free healthcare to the indigent before Obamacare.

Second of all Obamacare is nothing more than establishing another entitlement that just because somebody is alive that are entitled to have somebody else pay their bills. Disgusting.

Third of all this stupid welfare scheme cost an exorbitant amount of money. The shitheads that get the subsidies make out like bandits but the paying customers have larger premiums, much higher co payments and deductibles not to mention the 21 new taxes levied to fund the stupid program and the raiding of funds from Medicare.

You hit ALL the right wing talking points. Good job. Now go read a history book and grow a brain, get off hate talk radio or right wing news and you might learn REAL FACTS...