What did our founders really mean when they said “general welfare”?

[eagle1462010]

There are no slaves today............Perhaps your ass can discuss the times we live in today and not resort to the Civil War every time State rights are brought up.

You will not comment on how corrupt our Gov't is now........both sides...........hmmmm

You will not comment on how our debt and unfunded liabilities will destroy this nation....

You will not comment that our currency has lost so much value that the lower classes are losing the American Dream.........but instead create more money to solve the issue of a currency problem.........

No one wants to address the truth............and you will continue with trying to fan the flames......and cause both sides to be at each others throats...................doesn't matter really......the path is already set and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it anymore.

We need a strong Federal Government to keep the excesses of the States in check

When left to their own devices, States have encouraged slavery, Jim Crow excesses, disenfranchising, voter restrictions, environmental abuses

aka Gov;t is your sugar daddy because you love it spending us and borrowing us into oblivion.

The Judiciary and the constitution is the check and balance to that equation........Not a massive Federal Gov't with too much power.

We have the best government in the world by far.

The Federal Government has the degree of power that We the People demand

Baloney......that is the rhetoric of the left.........and their opinion.......your rights don't end where mine begin..

A very large segment of this country don't agree with you...........you haven't noticed.........now for immigrants wanting Free shit coming in.........they agree with you..........

Our large Federal Gov't is taking this country down..............because it has made promises it can't keep....and we have corrupt politicians running the show.

I agree

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.

Our large Federal Government turned us into an economic and military Superpower

States bickering among themselves never could have done it

The people of this country did that..............You didn't build this sound familiar...........and enumerated powers are to have a military.

 

[danielpalos]

We need a strong Federal Government to keep the excesses of the States in check

When left to their own devices, States have encouraged slavery, Jim Crow excesses, disenfranchising, voter restrictions, environmental abuses

aka Gov;t is your sugar daddy because you love it spending us and borrowing us into oblivion.

The Judiciary and the constitution is the check and balance to that equation........Not a massive Federal Gov't with too much power.

We have the best government in the world by far.

The Federal Government has the degree of power that We the People demand

Baloney......that is the rhetoric of the left.........and their opinion.......your rights don't end where mine begin..

A very large segment of this country don't agree with you...........you haven't noticed.........now for immigrants wanting Free shit coming in.........they agree with you..........

Our large Federal Gov't is taking this country down..............because it has made promises it can't keep....and we have corrupt politicians running the show.

I agree

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.

Our large Federal Government turned us into an economic and military Superpower

States bickering among themselves never could have done it

The people of this country did that..............You didn't build this sound familiar...........and enumerated powers are to have a military.

Not a Standing Army. And, the power to provide for the general welfare is General not Common.

 

[rightwinger]

We need a strong Federal Government to keep the excesses of the States in check

When left to their own devices, States have encouraged slavery, Jim Crow excesses, disenfranchising, voter restrictions, environmental abuses

aka Gov;t is your sugar daddy because you love it spending us and borrowing us into oblivion.

The Judiciary and the constitution is the check and balance to that equation........Not a massive Federal Gov't with too much power.

We have the best government in the world by far.

The Federal Government has the degree of power that We the People demand

Baloney......that is the rhetoric of the left.........and their opinion.......your rights don't end where mine begin..

A very large segment of this country don't agree with you...........you haven't noticed.........now for immigrants wanting Free shit coming in.........they agree with you..........

Our large Federal Gov't is taking this country down..............because it has made promises it can't keep....and we have corrupt politicians running the show.

I agree

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.

Our large Federal Government turned us into an economic and military Superpower

States bickering among themselves never could have done it

The people of this country did that..............You didn't build this sound familiar...........and enumerated powers are to have a military.

We the People did that.
Our Government built the infrastructure, the educational system, the monetary system, the legal system that made us great

Individual states could not have accomplished what a strong Federal Government did

 

[danielpalos]

aka Gov;t is your sugar daddy because you love it spending us and borrowing us into oblivion.

The Judiciary and the constitution is the check and balance to that equation........Not a massive Federal Gov't with too much power.

We have the best government in the world by far.

The Federal Government has the degree of power that We the People demand

Baloney......that is the rhetoric of the left.........and their opinion.......your rights don't end where mine begin..

A very large segment of this country don't agree with you...........you haven't noticed.........now for immigrants wanting Free shit coming in.........they agree with you..........

Our large Federal Gov't is taking this country down..............because it has made promises it can't keep....and we have corrupt politicians running the show.

I agree

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.

Our large Federal Government turned us into an economic and military Superpower

States bickering among themselves never could have done it

The people of this country did that..............You didn't build this sound familiar...........and enumerated powers are to have a military.

We the People did that.
Our Government built the infrastructure, the educational system, the monetary system, the legal system that made us great

Individual states could not have accomplished what a strong Federal Government did

It was the whole reason for the evolution from the Articles of Confederation. Evolution solutions is what the federal doctrine provides.

 

[Hum Dinger]

So far we’ve learned that Daniel thinks “general welfare” should mean we can all own Ferrari’s and eat like kings by staying at home and smoking weed while others bust their ass for us.

I say it would fall within constitutional guidelines if we offered welfare seeking lowlifes a taxpayer bought tent, fishing pole and bus ride to a resource rich forest. Prove me wrong please.

No body thinks that 'General Welfare' means everyone gets a Ferrari or anything close. You seem to suffer from paranoid delusions.

At one time people in this country DID basically go out to 'resource rich forests' and make their own way. We had the Homestead act...whereby the government promoted exactly what your saying. However, there really isn't any significant 'resource rich' forests left that hasn't been bought up and few people have the skills needed to survive that way.

While the vast majority of people that collect from government programs would like to become self sufficient...and many even hold full time jobs that do not pay enough for them to survive, there are some lowlifes that have no intention of ever getting off those programs.

So the real solutions are:

1. For business to pay a living wage to all employees - no one that works for a living should have to collect government checks just to survive.

2. For the private sector to provode 100% employment at reasonable wages and with reasonable benefits.

3. For the few that never want to work, the government should provide some meager income - not for their sake, but so the rest of us don't have to live with beggars and thieves. There should be a HUGE difference between the incomes of working people and those that collect government benefits.

But try not to get too upset about 'welfare seeking lowlifes'. There really aren't that many of them and they only get a tiny portion pf the federal budget.

Worry more about government contractors milking taxpayers royally - they not only live off our tax dollars for doing next to nothing, but they live as billionaires off of your hard work.

"Nobody thinks that everyone should get everything provided for..."

"Except for me".

our general welfare clause is general enough to solve for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment in a market friendly manner; compensation is all that is necessary and proper.

Don’t confuse the Founders as a bunch of socialist wacko’s. They were the richest men in America. Very conservative and very Christian.

By today's standards, yes they were conservative, by the standards of the time they lived they were EXTREME radicals.

Some of them were devout Christians, some were not, and at least Thomas Paine was extremely against organized religion.

If they were alive today, they'd probably have a diversity of political and religious views.

 

[rightwinger]

So far we’ve learned that Daniel thinks “general welfare” should mean we can all own Ferrari’s and eat like kings by staying at home and smoking weed while others bust their ass for us.

I say it would fall within constitutional guidelines if we offered welfare seeking lowlifes a taxpayer bought tent, fishing pole and bus ride to a resource rich forest. Prove me wrong please.

No body thinks that 'General Welfare' means everyone gets a Ferrari or anything close. You seem to suffer from paranoid delusions.

At one time people in this country DID basically go out to 'resource rich forests' and make their own way. We had the Homestead act...whereby the government promoted exactly what your saying. However, there really isn't any significant 'resource rich' forests left that hasn't been bought up and few people have the skills needed to survive that way.

While the vast majority of people that collect from government programs would like to become self sufficient...and many even hold full time jobs that do not pay enough for them to survive, there are some lowlifes that have no intention of ever getting off those programs.

So the real solutions are:

1. For business to pay a living wage to all employees - no one that works for a living should have to collect government checks just to survive.

2. For the private sector to provode 100% employment at reasonable wages and with reasonable benefits.

3. For the few that never want to work, the government should provide some meager income - not for their sake, but so the rest of us don't have to live with beggars and thieves. There should be a HUGE difference between the incomes of working people and those that collect government benefits.

But try not to get too upset about 'welfare seeking lowlifes'. There really aren't that many of them and they only get a tiny portion pf the federal budget.

Worry more about government contractors milking taxpayers royally - they not only live off our tax dollars for doing next to nothing, but they live as billionaires off of your hard work.

"Nobody thinks that everyone should get everything provided for..."

"Except for me".

our general welfare clause is general enough to solve for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment in a market friendly manner; compensation is all that is necessary and proper.

Don’t confuse the Founders as a bunch of socialist wacko’s. They were the richest men in America. Very conservative and very Christian.

By today's standards, yes they were conservative, by the standards of the time they lived they were EXTREME radicals.

Some of them were devout Christians, some were not, and at least Thomas Paine was extremely against organized religion.

If they were alive today, they'd probably have a diversity of political and religious views.

It reflects how backward today’s Conservatives are in that they only embrace 18th century values

 

[Harry Dresden]

Before Republicans comment on such topics they need to catch up to reality.

Red states are economic basketcases for following failed conservative policies for the last 150 years.

Most of them are horribly polluted and dangerous to raise children in because of the nasty pollution.

Then there’s the lack of education.

In fact it’s so bad in so many red states that in the entire Appalachian area infant mortality rates are rising and life expectancy is falling.

Republican conservatism is not really a failed policy. It’s a disguised policy. The whole point of it is to fuk most Americans and everything they do is aimed at helping needy billionaires.

you are in the wrong thread dean.........the "i hate trump and republican thread" is third door on the right....this is about what does general welfare mean to you...

 

[Harry Dresden]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

Your first mistake is in assuming our Founders were monolithic in their beliefs.

If you want to see one Founder's idea of what "the general welfare" meant to him, read Agrarian Justice by Thomas Paine.

A sampling:

Having thus in a few words, opened the merits of the case, I shall now proceed to the plan I have to propose, which is,

To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property:

And also, the sum of ten pounds per annum, during life, to every person now living, of the age of fifty years, and to all others as they shall arrive at that age.

Thomas Paine Agrarian Justice -- Part 2 of 3

A stipend paid by the government to everyone over the age of 21. An additional stipend after the age of 50.

There is your welfare state and social security, right there. Courtesy of Thomas Paine, the author of Common Sense.

you're kidding - RW dopes never get past Felix the Cat in Sunday comic strips ....

did he use his bag of tricks this week?....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Any time the commies can "interpret" the constitution to give government absolute power, they can't resist.

unlike the right wing.

nobody takes right wingers seriously about capitalism or economics.

you live in california and you say that?...open your eyes danny....

 

[Harry Dresden]

The Democrats take our money to feed the poor. They are pretty straightforward about it.

The Republicans are far sneakier. They interfere in the markets to make things costlier, and raise your tax rates in order to take your money and give it to rich people.

The Rube Herd is too clueless and innumerate to understand how the Republican method of robbery works.

They dont feed jack. They keep them in perpetual poverty. Its beyond vile.

lol. the left is for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed.

even if they dont want to work?....

 

[Harry Dresden]

There are no slaves today............Perhaps your ass can discuss the times we live in today and not resort to the Civil War every time State rights are brought up.

You will not comment on how corrupt our Gov't is now........both sides...........hmmmm

You will not comment on how our debt and unfunded liabilities will destroy this nation....

You will not comment that our currency has lost so much value that the lower classes are losing the American Dream.........but instead create more money to solve the issue of a currency problem.........

No one wants to address the truth............and you will continue with trying to fan the flames......and cause both sides to be at each others throats...................doesn't matter really......the path is already set and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it anymore.

We need a strong Federal Government to keep the excesses of the States in check

When left to their own devices, States have encouraged slavery, Jim Crow excesses, disenfranchising, voter restrictions, environmental abuses

aka Gov;t is your sugar daddy because you love it spending us and borrowing us into oblivion.

The Judiciary and the constitution is the check and balance to that equation........Not a massive Federal Gov't with too much power.

We have the best government in the world by far.

The Federal Government has the degree of power that We the People demand

Baloney......that is the rhetoric of the left.........and their opinion.......your rights don't end where mine begin..

A very large segment of this country don't agree with you...........you haven't noticed.........now for immigrants wanting Free shit coming in.........they agree with you..........

Our large Federal Gov't is taking this country down..............because it has made promises it can't keep....and we have corrupt politicians running the show.

I agree

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.

Our large Federal Government turned us into an economic and military Superpower

States bickering among themselves never could have done it

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.
i see RW people saying the same about the LW here in these threads....you party people might as well merge....you guys say the same shit about each other....

 

[rightwinger]

We need a strong Federal Government to keep the excesses of the States in check

When left to their own devices, States have encouraged slavery, Jim Crow excesses, disenfranchising, voter restrictions, environmental abuses

aka Gov;t is your sugar daddy because you love it spending us and borrowing us into oblivion.

The Judiciary and the constitution is the check and balance to that equation........Not a massive Federal Gov't with too much power.

We have the best government in the world by far.

The Federal Government has the degree of power that We the People demand

Baloney......that is the rhetoric of the left.........and their opinion.......your rights don't end where mine begin..

A very large segment of this country don't agree with you...........you haven't noticed.........now for immigrants wanting Free shit coming in.........they agree with you..........

Our large Federal Gov't is taking this country down..............because it has made promises it can't keep....and we have corrupt politicians running the show.

I agree

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.

Our large Federal Government turned us into an economic and military Superpower

States bickering among themselves never could have done it

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.
i see RW people saying the same about the LW here in these threads....you party people might as well merge....you guys say the same shit about each other....

STFU you Commie!

 

[Harry Dresden]

aka Gov;t is your sugar daddy because you love it spending us and borrowing us into oblivion.

The Judiciary and the constitution is the check and balance to that equation........Not a massive Federal Gov't with too much power.

We have the best government in the world by far.

The Federal Government has the degree of power that We the People demand

Baloney......that is the rhetoric of the left.........and their opinion.......your rights don't end where mine begin..

A very large segment of this country don't agree with you...........you haven't noticed.........now for immigrants wanting Free shit coming in.........they agree with you..........

Our large Federal Gov't is taking this country down..............because it has made promises it can't keep....and we have corrupt politicians running the show.

I agree

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.

Our large Federal Government turned us into an economic and military Superpower

States bickering among themselves never could have done it

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.
i see RW people saying the same about the LW here in these threads....you party people might as well merge....you guys say the same shit about each other....

STFU you Commie!

im a commie?....but i say my prayers and take my vitamins!.....

 

[Kondor3]

...public assistance is unconstitutional..

In what Alternative Universe is this true?

 

[eagle1462010]

aka Gov;t is your sugar daddy because you love it spending us and borrowing us into oblivion.

The Judiciary and the constitution is the check and balance to that equation........Not a massive Federal Gov't with too much power.

We have the best government in the world by far.

The Federal Government has the degree of power that We the People demand

Baloney......that is the rhetoric of the left.........and their opinion.......your rights don't end where mine begin..

A very large segment of this country don't agree with you...........you haven't noticed.........now for immigrants wanting Free shit coming in.........they agree with you..........

Our large Federal Gov't is taking this country down..............because it has made promises it can't keep....and we have corrupt politicians running the show.

I agree

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.

Our large Federal Government turned us into an economic and military Superpower

States bickering among themselves never could have done it

The people of this country did that..............You didn't build this sound familiar...........and enumerated powers are to have a military.

We the People did that.
Our Government built the infrastructure, the educational system, the monetary system, the legal system that made us great

Individual states could not have accomplished what a strong Federal Government did

Each have their own purposes, budgets and accomplishments............States build roads, bridges and dams too.........Interstate is the area of Feds......as it connects states...........The People of this country ARE THE STATES...........which make up the Fed.............They are still WE THE PEOPLE......which is your major malfunction on We the People.

The Gov't is too big...........too corrupt.........and is taking us down..........which is exactly why the founders enumerated their powers......bastardized by FDR to the point we are today.

 

[danielpalos]

The Democrats take our money to feed the poor. They are pretty straightforward about it.

The Republicans are far sneakier. They interfere in the markets to make things costlier, and raise your tax rates in order to take your money and give it to rich people.

The Rube Herd is too clueless and innumerate to understand how the Republican method of robbery works.

They dont feed jack. They keep them in perpetual poverty. Its beyond vile.

lol. the left is for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed.

even if they dont want to work?....

Capitalism works. Some people don't mind being poor.

 

[rightwinger]

We have the best government in the world by far.

The Federal Government has the degree of power that We the People demand

Baloney......that is the rhetoric of the left.........and their opinion.......your rights don't end where mine begin..

A very large segment of this country don't agree with you...........you haven't noticed.........now for immigrants wanting Free shit coming in.........they agree with you..........

Our large Federal Gov't is taking this country down..............because it has made promises it can't keep....and we have corrupt politicians running the show.

I agree

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.

Our large Federal Government turned us into an economic and military Superpower

States bickering among themselves never could have done it

The people of this country did that..............You didn't build this sound familiar...........and enumerated powers are to have a military.

We the People did that.
Our Government built the infrastructure, the educational system, the monetary system, the legal system that made us great

Individual states could not have accomplished what a strong Federal Government did

Each have their own purposes, budgets and accomplishments............States build roads, bridges and dams too.........Interstate is the area of Feds......as it connects states...........The People of this country ARE THE STATES...........which make up the Fed.............They are still WE THE PEOPLE......which is your major malfunction on We the People.

The Gov't is too big...........too corrupt.........and is taking us down..........which is exactly why the founders enumerated their powers......bastardized by FDR to the point we are today.

The Government is just the right size

As determined by We the People

 

[eagle1462010]

Baloney......that is the rhetoric of the left.........and their opinion.......your rights don't end where mine begin..

A very large segment of this country don't agree with you...........you haven't noticed.........now for immigrants wanting Free shit coming in.........they agree with you..........

Our large Federal Gov't is taking this country down..............because it has made promises it can't keep....and we have corrupt politicians running the show.

I agree

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.

Our large Federal Government turned us into an economic and military Superpower

States bickering among themselves never could have done it

The people of this country did that..............You didn't build this sound familiar...........and enumerated powers are to have a military.

We the People did that.
Our Government built the infrastructure, the educational system, the monetary system, the legal system that made us great

Individual states could not have accomplished what a strong Federal Government did

Each have their own purposes, budgets and accomplishments............States build roads, bridges and dams too.........Interstate is the area of Feds......as it connects states...........The People of this country ARE THE STATES...........which make up the Fed.............They are still WE THE PEOPLE......which is your major malfunction on We the People.

The Gov't is too big...........too corrupt.........and is taking us down..........which is exactly why the founders enumerated their powers......bastardized by FDR to the point we are today.

The Government is just the right size

As determined by We the People

You speak for yourself..........not We the people.................Many disagree with you extremely.........but the corrupt politicians have your back.......They did this..............and keep getting hired again anyway...................and so to the cliff we go................

 

[rightwinger]

We have the best government in the world by far.

The Federal Government has the degree of power that We the People demand

Baloney......that is the rhetoric of the left.........and their opinion.......your rights don't end where mine begin..

A very large segment of this country don't agree with you...........you haven't noticed.........now for immigrants wanting Free shit coming in.........they agree with you..........

Our large Federal Gov't is taking this country down..............because it has made promises it can't keep....and we have corrupt politicians running the show.

I agree

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.

Our large Federal Government turned us into an economic and military Superpower

States bickering among themselves never could have done it

The people of this country did that..............You didn't build this sound familiar...........and enumerated powers are to have a military.

We the People did that.
Our Government built the infrastructure, the educational system, the monetary system, the legal system that made us great

Individual states could not have accomplished what a strong Federal Government did

Each have their own purposes, budgets and accomplishments............States build roads, bridges and dams too.........Interstate is the area of Feds......as it connects states...........The People of this country ARE THE STATES...........which make up the Fed.............They are still WE THE PEOPLE......which is your major malfunction on We the People.

The Gov't is too big...........too corrupt.........and is taking us down..........which is exactly why the founders enumerated their powers......bastardized by FDR to the point we are today.

What would have happened if FDR had your point of view?

The dust belt states would have blown away and never would have recovered
The Tennessee Valley would have been populated by back woods hillbillies
Electrification of poorer states never would have happened. It was not profitable
Thousands and thousands of parks and public works projects would be vacant

 

[rightwinger]

I agree

The RW does not believe we have the best government in the world. They want to tear it down.

Our large Federal Government turned us into an economic and military Superpower

States bickering among themselves never could have done it

The people of this country did that..............You didn't build this sound familiar...........and enumerated powers are to have a military.

We the People did that.
Our Government built the infrastructure, the educational system, the monetary system, the legal system that made us great

Individual states could not have accomplished what a strong Federal Government did

Each have their own purposes, budgets and accomplishments............States build roads, bridges and dams too.........Interstate is the area of Feds......as it connects states...........The People of this country ARE THE STATES...........which make up the Fed.............They are still WE THE PEOPLE......which is your major malfunction on We the People.

The Gov't is too big...........too corrupt.........and is taking us down..........which is exactly why the founders enumerated their powers......bastardized by FDR to the point we are today.

The Government is just the right size

As determined by We the People

You speak for yourself..........not We the people.................Many disagree with you extremely.........but the corrupt politicians have your back.......They did this..............and keep getting hired again anyway...................and so to the cliff we go................

We the People vote on the public services we want
You lost