What Constitutes a "Right?"

[PubliusInfinitum]

Society doesn't take away rights either.

The right to own slaves was revoked in the U.S.

It was never a right retard! Are you paying attention to what I'm saying?


No need, you haven't really demonstrated the validity of your original point.

Rights can be agreed upon. Those which can be agreed upon by all are natural rights.

Wrong. look up the definitions of positive and natural rights, since you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Why don't you enlighten me instead?
Please think before you post.

That doesn't seem to be an option...

 

[rubberhead]

Yeah, which way is North on that compass? The magnetic poles in the moral world will lead you to the definition of natural rights.

So natural rights = instinct?

Then I have the natural right to bash your head in with a rock while angry?

The poles may shift as the parameters of human existence change.

So they're 'natural' but subject to human perception?

Apologies, I didn't realize we had a philosophy student among us. Let me be more precise. The parameters of human existence are things like resource distribution and availability, geological restrictions, natural catastrophe, etc. Maybe I should have said the parameters of human survival. My mistake.

 

[rubberhead]

The right to own slaves was revoked in the U.S.

It was never a right retard! Are you paying attention to what I'm saying?


No need, you haven't really demonstrated the validity of your original point.

Wrong. look up the definitions of positive and natural rights, since you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Why don't you enlighten me instead?
Please think before you post.

That doesn't seem to be an option...

What? you people thinking before you post? Yeah, that's true with the exception of Diuretic and Intense.

 

[Intense]

87 Pages of Assault of Inalienable Rights by Statists that would Prefer a Government permission slip for every aspect of Our Lives. Now Science Nazi's saying we can **** up your conscience too with bullets to the brain, Electro-Shock, carving it up for fun and research, and look you're dead, and can't complain, so it's obviously not a Right. Nothing is a Right Because Nothing Is Immune to being Tampered with or Fucked With. So Government and Science has No Rights Either because they are not invulnerable. There is no right or wrong, no morality because we are not bullet proof. What the **** kind of retarded logic is this you mind dead pathetic Jackass Retards. There I feel better now. The Universe is balanced again, peace is restored. Get some meaning in your life.

 

[rubberhead]

Intense - I'm always alert for the slightest indication of totalitarianism. I may not subscribe to others' ideas about natural law and natural rights but I've spent my career defending and protecting social rights and talking and thinking about them. My moral compass is functional - and also nice and shiny

What is the Source of that Moral Compass ...Grass-hopper????

Noone. It was forged by evolutionary pressures and later honed through philosophy.

Evolution is a natural process dumbass. You're contradicting yourself.

 

[Intense]

What is the Source of that Moral Compass ...Grass-hopper????

Noone. It was forged by evolutionary pressures and later honed through philosophy.

Evolution is a natural process dumbass. You're contradicting yourself.

Please Grace us with the Last Evolutionary advancement of the Human Race? Details please.

 

[rubberhead]

rights: those things to which people are naturally entitled

demonstrate. You've only highlighted your own failnigs

liberties: those actions which people are free to perform

define: free

Note: certain liberties are rights. Namely those which don't deprive others of their rights.

demonstrate

Why don't you demonstrate something? Not one of your excessively abrasive posts has demonstrated that any of your scarce original ideas have any support whatsoever. Demonstrate, and then I will demonstrate in kind. This is a two way conversation. Your belief that you're the smartest person here doesn't gain you any credibility with me.

 

[Intense]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. - Thomas Jefferson.

We stray from the Foundation and the only authority left will be the force of Arms. We are not you Sheep, We are not Your Property.

 

[rubberhead]

Noone. It was forged by evolutionary pressures and later honed through philosophy.

Evolution is a natural process dumbass. You're contradicting yourself.

Please Grace us with the Last Evolutionary advancement of the Human Race? Details please.

I'll do you two better: I'll give you the last three Evolutionary advancements.

1. herding animals (pastoralism)
2. growing crops for consumption and storage (sedentary agriculture)
3. building machines to perform repetitive tasks (industrialism)

 

[Intense]

Evolution is a natural process dumbass. You're contradicting yourself.

Please Grace us with the Last Evolutionary advancement of the Human Race? Details please.

I'll do you two better: I'll give you the last three Evolutionary advancements.

1. herding animals (pastoralism)
2. growing crops for consumption and storage (sedentary agriculture)
3. building machines to perform repetitive tasks (industrialism)

These are behavioral. Let me know if You can Grow gills or Fly unaided.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

87 Pages of Assault of Inalienable Rights by Statists that would Prefer a Government permission slip for every aspect of Our Lives. Now Science Nazi's saying we can **** up your conscience too with bullets to the brain, Electro-Shock, carving it up for fun and research, and look you're dead, and can't complain, so it's obviously not a Right. Nothing is a Right Because Nothing Is Immune to being Tampered with or Fucked With. So Government and Science has No Rights Either because they are not invulnerable. There is no right or wrong, no morality because we are not bullet proof. What the **** kind of retarded logic is this you mind dead pathetic Jackass Retards. There I feel better now. The Universe is balanced again, peace is restored. Get some meaning in your life.

ROFL...

Man... Max Baucus, who is being billed as a 'Moderate' Democrat is writing a healthcare bill which mandates that everyone in the US must buy healt hinsurance... and that failure to comply with that edict, will result in a $25,000 fine and prison.

HE'S A MODERATE!

Friends, this nation is heading straight for Civil War.

The humanist ideological left -v- the Americans; and its is going to make the war of Northern aggression look like a walk in the park.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Evolution is a natural process dumbass. You're contradicting yourself.

Please Grace us with the Last Evolutionary advancement of the Human Race? Details please.

I'll do you two better: I'll give you the last three Evolutionary advancements.

1. herding animals (pastoralism)
2. growing crops for consumption and storage (sedentary agriculture)
3. building machines to perform repetitive tasks (industrialism)

Intense, he's speaking of the evolution of human skills... not biological evolution.

Such is akin to the evolutionary regression in human degradation... Powder cocaine, crack cocaine and crystal meth...; Charity abuse, minor social entitlement, major social entitlement... Independence and liberty, progressivism, fascism, socialism, communism...

 

[Intense]

Please Grace us with the Last Evolutionary advancement of the Human Race? Details please.

I'll do you two better: I'll give you the last three Evolutionary advancements.

1. herding animals (pastoralism)
2. growing crops for consumption and storage (sedentary agriculture)
3. building machines to perform repetitive tasks (industrialism)

Intense, he's speaking of the evolution of human skills... not biological evolution.

Such is akin to the evolutionary regression in human degradation... Powder cocaine, crack cocaine and crystal meth...; Charity abuse, minor social entitlement, major social entitlement... Independence and liberty, progressivism, fascism, socialism, communism...

Rather than Poetic License, considering They deny the Existence of Natural Rights themselves, as well as Their Source, lets be Literal, in interpretation, precise. Discovery, Invention, and Development are just that. Individual Beings, inspired by Higher Consciousness brought these things into being. Pretty Miraculous, don't You think?

 

[rubberhead]

Humans are great experimenters. We learn by various means, mostly social, but a solitary human can learn by using trial and error methods, just like other animals do. We adopt what works, we discard what doesn't work. We, if we are members of even the smallest social grouping, learn from each other as well as learning from our individual experiences.

Before we developed language we (humans collectively) learned by observation and we learned (as individuals) by classical and operant conditioning methods (delivered by others external to us as individuals, usually parents). We learned what helped us to survive as individuals and as collectives.

After language and writing were invented humans could more effectively share the collective knowledge gained from trial and error methods. And importantly we could develop codes of behaviour that were recorded. Having them recorded meant that they could be revised and improved as necessary. What worked was recorded, what didn't work was extinguished. What worked was venerated and passed down from generation to generation, being amended as necessary.

What guides us is the biological imperative. It guides us as individuals. In societies the biological imperative drives individuals and given societies are collectives of individual humans it follows that arrangements must be made to manage the behaviours that are driven by the biological imperative.

First of all, thank you for the thoughtful post. It seems like you are the final remaining voice of reason on your side of the original argument.

Ok, so this 'behavioral selection process' that you propose and I must accept as common sense... driven by Biological Imperative... does it not boil down to a natural process? Doesn't it seek natural ends? Aren't there aspects of the various behavioral codes which are always selected?

I don't pretend to know what all of the aspects of behavioral code that will always be selected. I still maintain that all people will always seek freedom (if society doesn't give it to them, they will eventually take it or die trying, at which point you could say they are truly free). And those who seek to deny others' freedom will have to continue to grow in power to keep control. We know where this ends. Eventually there is no more power and there is nowhere to go but down. Tyranny is forever temporary.

Why do I think that people will always seek freedom?

Freedom affords one the ability to control one's destiny. People are naturally mistrustful, especially when it comes to people outside of their genetic circle and even more so of those outside of their community (people they see every day). As the past 87 pages have shown here, people are generally most trusting of themselves. So why hand over your destiny to another person? Why would you think that they have your best interest at heart? Demagogues and other snake-oil salesmen can sometimes infiltrate our hearts and convince us that they are truly acting in our interest (and may in some cases be), but if we did not believe that they were acting in our interest we would not choose to defer to them.

 

[Intense]

Humans are great experimenters. We learn by various means, mostly social, but a solitary human can learn by using trial and error methods, just like other animals do. We adopt what works, we discard what doesn't work. We, if we are members of even the smallest social grouping, learn from each other as well as learning from our individual experiences.

Before we developed language we (humans collectively) learned by observation and we learned (as individuals) by classical and operant conditioning methods (delivered by others external to us as individuals, usually parents). We learned what helped us to survive as individuals and as collectives.

After language and writing were invented humans could more effectively share the collective knowledge gained from trial and error methods. And importantly we could develop codes of behaviour that were recorded. Having them recorded meant that they could be revised and improved as necessary. What worked was recorded, what didn't work was extinguished. What worked was venerated and passed down from generation to generation, being amended as necessary.

What guides us is the biological imperative. It guides us as individuals. In societies the biological imperative drives individuals and given societies are collectives of individual humans it follows that arrangements must be made to manage the behaviours that are driven by the biological imperative.

First of all, thank you for the thoughtful post. It seems like you are the final remaining voice of reason on your side of the original argument.

Ok, so this 'behavioral selection process' that you propose and I must accept as common sense... driven by Biological Imperative... does it not boil down to a natural process? Doesn't it seek natural ends? Aren't there aspects of the various behavioral codes which are always selected?

I don't pretend to know what all of the aspects of behavioral code that will always be selected. I still maintain that all people will always seek freedom (if society doesn't give it to them, they will eventually take it or die trying, at which point you could say they are truly free). And those who seek to deny others' freedom will have to continue to grow in power to keep control. We know where this ends. Eventually there is no more power and there is nowhere to go but down. Tyranny is forever temporary.

Why do I think that people will always seek freedom?

Freedom affords one the ability to control one's destiny. People are naturally mistrustful, especially when it comes to people outside of their genetic circle and even more so of those outside of their community (people they see every day). As the past 87 pages have shown here, people are generally most trusting of themselves. So why hand over your destiny to another person? Why would you think that they have your best interest at heart? Demagogues and other snake-oil salesmen can sometimes infiltrate our hearts and convince us that they are truly acting in our interest (and may in some cases be), but if we did not believe that they were acting in our interest we would not choose to defer to them.

Our Natures tend to seek Security, Companionship, and Freedom, among many other things. Study those born and raised in more rural settings, and you will see different attributes to those born and raised in Urban settings. Generally speaking. We seek to gather, and still, we need space.

 

[rubberhead]

87 Pages of Assault of Inalienable Rights by Statists that would Prefer a Government permission slip for every aspect of Our Lives. Now Science Nazi's saying we can **** up your conscience too with bullets to the brain, Electro-Shock, carving it up for fun and research, and look you're dead, and can't complain, so it's obviously not a Right. Nothing is a Right Because Nothing Is Immune to being Tampered with or Fucked With. So Government and Science has No Rights Either because they are not invulnerable. There is no right or wrong, no morality because we are not bullet proof. What the **** kind of retarded logic is this you mind dead pathetic Jackass Retards. There I feel better now. The Universe is balanced again, peace is restored. Get some meaning in your life.

ROFL...

Man... Max Baucus, who is being billed as a 'Moderate' Democrat is writing a healthcare bill which mandates that everyone in the US must buy healt hinsurance... and that failure to comply with that edict, will result in a $25,000 fine and prison.

HE'S A MODERATE!

Friends, this nation is heading straight for Civil War.

The humanist ideological left -v- the Americans; and its is going to make the war of Northern aggression look like a walk in the park.

I hope you're wrong, but I fear you may be right. What would we even be fighting about? Let's examine.

The progressives position: "No one is entitled to property. The Government will decide how it is to be distributed."

The libertarian position: "Government has no right to take property from one group and give it to another based on need."

How could anyone support the progressive position? I mean, legitimately, not just as a massive kick-back. It's effectively forced charity. Why don't progressives (socialists) just take their money and willfully give it to charity and leave everyone else alone? I mean, there are more and more rich progressives recently... Why do you think that is? It wouldn't be massive embezzlement and fraud would it? I know which side I'd be on: Ron Paul's side.

 

[Intense]

87 Pages of Assault of Inalienable Rights by Statists that would Prefer a Government permission slip for every aspect of Our Lives. Now Science Nazi's saying we can **** up your conscience too with bullets to the brain, Electro-Shock, carving it up for fun and research, and look you're dead, and can't complain, so it's obviously not a Right. Nothing is a Right Because Nothing Is Immune to being Tampered with or Fucked With. So Government and Science has No Rights Either because they are not invulnerable. There is no right or wrong, no morality because we are not bullet proof. What the **** kind of retarded logic is this you mind dead pathetic Jackass Retards. There I feel better now. The Universe is balanced again, peace is restored. Get some meaning in your life.

ROFL...

Man... Max Baucus, who is being billed as a 'Moderate' Democrat is writing a healthcare bill which mandates that everyone in the US must buy healt hinsurance... and that failure to comply with that edict, will result in a $25,000 fine and prison.

HE'S A MODERATE!

Friends, this nation is heading straight for Civil War.

The humanist ideological left -v- the Americans; and its is going to make the war of Northern aggression look like a walk in the park.

I hope you're wrong, but I fear you may be right. What would we even be fighting about? Let's examine.

The progressives position: "No one is entitled to property. The Government will decide how it is to be distributed."

The libertarian position: "Government has no right to take property from one group and give it to another based on need."

How could anyone support the progressive position? I mean, legitimately, not just as a massive kick-back. It's effectively forced charity. Why don't progressives (socialists) just take their money and willfully give it to charity and leave everyone else alone? I mean, there are more and more rich progressives recently... Why do you think that is? It wouldn't be massive embezzlement and fraud would it? I know which side I'd be on: Ron Paul's side.

They have manipulated the scales to their advantage, and now they get more. Notice also they give less of themselves, and mandate that others give more. Union Preferences and perks is a corruption that should put their continued existence in question. That consideration would shake Government at every level.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

I'll do you two better: I'll give you the last three Evolutionary advancements.

1. herding animals (pastoralism)
2. growing crops for consumption and storage (sedentary agriculture)
3. building machines to perform repetitive tasks (industrialism)

Intense, he's speaking of the evolution of human skills... not biological evolution.

Such is akin to the evolutionary regression in human degradation... Powder cocaine, crack cocaine and crystal meth...; Charity abuse, minor social entitlement, major social entitlement... Independence and liberty, progressivism, fascism, socialism, communism...

Rather than Poetic License, considering They deny the Existence of Natural Rights themselves, as well as Their Source, lets be Literal, in interpretation, precise. Discovery, Invention, and Development are just that. Individual Beings, inspired by Higher Consciousness brought these things into being. Pretty Miraculous, don't You think?

Yep...

 

[rubberhead]

Please Grace us with the Last Evolutionary advancement of the Human Race? Details please.

I'll do you two better: I'll give you the last three Evolutionary advancements.

1. herding animals (pastoralism)
2. growing crops for consumption and storage (sedentary agriculture)
3. building machines to perform repetitive tasks (industrialism)

These are behavioral. Let me know if You can Grow gills or Fly unaided.

I don't need to because I can get an independent air supply or get on an airplane. Is this not evolution? Maybe it's not biological, but who's got time to wait around for that? Not humans.

 

[rubberhead]

Humans are great experimenters. We learn by various means, mostly social, but a solitary human can learn by using trial and error methods, just like other animals do. We adopt what works, we discard what doesn't work. We, if we are members of even the smallest social grouping, learn from each other as well as learning from our individual experiences.

Before we developed language we (humans collectively) learned by observation and we learned (as individuals) by classical and operant conditioning methods (delivered by others external to us as individuals, usually parents). We learned what helped us to survive as individuals and as collectives.

After language and writing were invented humans could more effectively share the collective knowledge gained from trial and error methods. And importantly we could develop codes of behaviour that were recorded. Having them recorded meant that they could be revised and improved as necessary. What worked was recorded, what didn't work was extinguished. What worked was venerated and passed down from generation to generation, being amended as necessary.

What guides us is the biological imperative. It guides us as individuals. In societies the biological imperative drives individuals and given societies are collectives of individual humans it follows that arrangements must be made to manage the behaviours that are driven by the biological imperative.

First of all, thank you for the thoughtful post. It seems like you are the final remaining voice of reason on your side of the original argument.

Ok, so this 'behavioral selection process' that you propose and I must accept as common sense... driven by Biological Imperative... does it not boil down to a natural process? Doesn't it seek natural ends? Aren't there aspects of the various behavioral codes which are always selected?

I don't pretend to know what all of the aspects of behavioral code that will always be selected. I still maintain that all people will always seek freedom (if society doesn't give it to them, they will eventually take it or die trying, at which point you could say they are truly free). And those who seek to deny others' freedom will have to continue to grow in power to keep control. We know where this ends. Eventually there is no more power and there is nowhere to go but down. Tyranny is forever temporary.

Why do I think that people will always seek freedom?

Freedom affords one the ability to control one's destiny. People are naturally mistrustful, especially when it comes to people outside of their genetic circle and even more so of those outside of their community (people they see every day). As the past 87 pages have shown here, people are generally most trusting of themselves. So why hand over your destiny to another person? Why would you think that they have your best interest at heart? Demagogues and other snake-oil salesmen can sometimes infiltrate our hearts and convince us that they are truly acting in our interest (and may in some cases be), but if we did not believe that they were acting in our interest we would not choose to defer to them.

Our Natures tend to seek Security, Companionship, and Freedom, among many other things. Study those born and raised in more rural settings, and you will see different attributes to those born and raised in Urban settings. Generally speaking. We seek to gather, and still, we need space.

Well put!