What are your attitudes about Homosexuals?

[LockeJaw]

Is it right, is it ethical , is it proper to turn business away because the client is homosexual so long as the services requested are the exact same services you would provide to any other client?

Maybe the post got too long but it wouldn't let me quote the pertinent part I wanted to quote so I edited everything else out.

Define same services. A cake with a bride and groom on it would be the same service. A cake with two males on it would be a different service and the store owner/baker might not have the props to make it work. Why would he keep them in stock. So the same would be if the gay folks accepted a male and a female on their wedding cake.

What if the baker did not stock a cake topper featuring an Asian groom and a Black bride? Wouldn't the baker have to order it?

Nope. Not his job. When I got married, we had the standard white couple figurine. I'm black & so is my wife, we didn't really care about that much...didn't even ask for black figurines...Figured if they had them in stock, they wouldve put them on there.

 

[Nosmo King]

Maybe the post got too long but it wouldn't let me quote the pertinent part I wanted to quote so I edited everything else out.

Define same services. A cake with a bride and groom on it would be the same service. A cake with two males on it would be a different service and the store owner/baker might not have the props to make it work. Why would he keep them in stock. So the same would be if the gay folks accepted a male and a female on their wedding cake.

What if the baker did not stock a cake topper featuring an Asian groom and a Black bride? Wouldn't the baker have to order it?

Nope. Not his job. When I got married, we had the standard white couple figurine. I'm black & so is my wife, we didn't really care about that much...didn't even ask for black figurines...Figured if they had them in stock, they wouldve put them on there.

Should a couple ask for a more customized cake topper, and if the baker had made such accommodations in the past, is it still the ethical thing to do to turn away couples asking for customized cake toppers? Would you, had you requested a Black couple portrayed as a cake topper, still patronized the baker if he refused?

 

[LockeJaw]

If I asked & he refused, Id be surprised as the folks who baked our wedding cake & decorated it are also good friends!

But yeah, if that is what I wanted & a baker refused, I would cancel the whole thing as far as that baker is concerned & go somewhere else. Would I be upset? Sure, who wouldn't be? But that's all that would happen, hurt feelings & a minor inconvenience.

Hardly worth passing laws, calling on the media to cry about it. I have more dignity than that.

 

[Slyhunter]

Is it right, is it ethical , is it proper to turn business away because the client is homosexual so long as the services requested are the exact same services you would provide to any other client?

Maybe the post got too long but it wouldn't let me quote the pertinent part I wanted to quote so I edited everything else out.

Define same services. A cake with a bride and groom on it would be the same service. A cake with two males on it would be a different service and the store owner/baker might not have the props to make it work. Why would he keep them in stock. So the same would be if the gay folks accepted a male and a female on their wedding cake.

What if the baker did not stock a cake topper featuring an Asian groom and a Black bride? Wouldn't the baker have to order it?

No he would use the generic bride and groom he uses for every cake.

 

[Peach]

If I asked & he refused, Id be surprised as the folks who baked our wedding cake & decorated it are also good friends!

But yeah, if that is what I wanted & a baker refused, I would cancel the whole thing as far as that baker is concerned & go somewhere else. Would I be upset? Sure, who wouldn't be? But that's all that would happen, hurt feelings & a minor inconvenience.

Hardly worth passing laws, calling on the media to cry about it. I have more dignity than that.

It takes dignity to combat bigotry also. Your choice however, as always.

 

[Seawytch]

Is it right, is it ethical , is it proper to turn business away because the client is homosexual so long as the services requested are the exact same services you would provide to any other client?

Maybe the post got too long but it wouldn't let me quote the pertinent part I wanted to quote so I edited everything else out.



Define same services. A cake with a bride and groom on it would be the same service. A cake with two males on it would be a different service and the store owner/baker might not have the props to make it work. Why would he keep them in stock. So the same would be if the gay folks accepted a male and a female on their wedding cake.

They can still bake the cake. They say "we don't have those toppers, you'll have to supply them". They still bake the ordered cake.

 

[Seawytch]

Where in the 1st Amendment does it say they have to be?

Case law.

uhuh, saying "case law" doesn't answer my question. Quoting case law would. And since you didn't I bet you can't.



Just because your not a preacher or a church does not mean you don't get 1st amendment rights.

Then you can name all the churches and clergy that have been forced to marry interracial or interfaith marriages, right? How about all the religious exemptions for people opposed to interracial marriage? Do they have to bake a cake for them?

 

[Nosmo King]

Maybe the post got too long but it wouldn't let me quote the pertinent part I wanted to quote so I edited everything else out.

Define same services. A cake with a bride and groom on it would be the same service. A cake with two males on it would be a different service and the store owner/baker might not have the props to make it work. Why would he keep them in stock. So the same would be if the gay folks accepted a male and a female on their wedding cake.

What if the baker did not stock a cake topper featuring an Asian groom and a Black bride? Wouldn't the baker have to order it?

No he would use the generic bride and groom he uses for every cake.

Have you ever been in a bakery? There's really no such thing as a 'generic' cake topper.

Have you ever been to a city of more than 25,000 people? As there is no such thing as a generic couple, bakers have learned that their businesses are service businesses and thus cater to the community at large.

 

[birddog]

Geeez! You guys still talking about Queers?

I have never met a Queer that I wasn't courteous to, but I have never liked their lifestyle.

I'm talking more about the aspect of anti-discrimination laws and the unconstitutionality of it all. The most recent examples have been gays trying to force businesses to cater to them, so yeah....still talking about queers, but Id feel the same way if it were any other group trying to force businesses to cater to them when they clearly do not wish to.

It's that libertarian streak in me I guess...

I agree. If a business owner doesn't want to serve someone because they stink, or dress improperly, or use bad language, or are a queer, it should be up to that owner.

Not just being a queer, but flaunting it by kissing in public or dressing wild should especially give the owner a valid reason for refusing service.

 

[Seawytch]

Geeez! You guys still talking about Queers?



I have never met a Queer that I wasn't courteous to, but I have never liked their lifestyle.

I'm talking more about the aspect of anti-discrimination laws and the unconstitutionality of it all. The most recent examples have been gays trying to force businesses to cater to them, so yeah....still talking about queers, but Id feel the same way if it were any other group trying to force businesses to cater to them when they clearly do not wish to.



It's that libertarian streak in me I guess...

I agree. If a business owner doesn't want to serve someone because they stink, or dress improperly, or use bad language, or are a queer, it should be up to that owner.



Not just being a queer, but flaunting it by kissing in public or dressing wild should especially give the owner a valid reason for refusing service.

And you've, of course, demanded that the Civil Rights Act be repealed by your elected representative, right?

 

[Peach]

I'm talking more about the aspect of anti-discrimination laws and the unconstitutionality of it all. The most recent examples have been gays trying to force businesses to cater to them, so yeah....still talking about queers, but Id feel the same way if it were any other group trying to force businesses to cater to them when they clearly do not wish to.



It's that libertarian streak in me I guess...

I agree. If a business owner doesn't want to serve someone because they stink, or dress improperly, or use bad language, or are a queer, it should be up to that owner.



Not just being a queer, but flaunting it by kissing in public or dressing wild should especially give the owner a valid reason for refusing service.

And you've, of course, demanded that the Civil Rights Act be repealed by your elected representative, right?

Probably busy looking for people "flaunting", with binoculars of course.

 

[Slyhunter]

Case law.

uhuh, saying "case law" doesn't answer my question. Quoting case law would. And since you didn't I bet you can't.



Just because your not a preacher or a church does not mean you don't get 1st amendment rights.

Then you can name all the churches and clergy that have been forced to marry interracial or interfaith marriages, right? How about all the religious exemptions for people opposed to interracial marriage? Do they have to bake a cake for them?

Red herring that has nothing to do with what I posted.

Individuals have 1st amendment rights too.

 

[LockeJaw]

If I asked & he refused, Id be surprised as the folks who baked our wedding cake & decorated it are also good friends!

But yeah, if that is what I wanted & a baker refused, I would cancel the whole thing as far as that baker is concerned & go somewhere else. Would I be upset? Sure, who wouldn't be? But that's all that would happen, hurt feelings & a minor inconvenience.

Hardly worth passing laws, calling on the media to cry about it. I have more dignity than that.

It takes dignity to combat bigotry also. Your choice however, as always.

If we were living in the times when my parents stood up against racism...I would be inclined to agree with you. Today, fighting "bigotry" is a joke & backed by the mainstream left & media. If a member of any designated victim group so much as breaks a nail, it's on the news.

Gays have never faced what black folks faced, not even close to that level. So I just don't see it the way you do.

 

[Yurt]

here is what i don't get about homosexual haters....there are "heterosexual" men who enjoy anal sex with a woman...apparently that is fine, but if you have anal sex with a man, then you're a...whatever.

personally, i do not approve of gay sex, it is a sin, but that doesn't mean that homosexuals deserve second class citizenship in this country.

 

[Peach]

If I asked & he refused, Id be surprised as the folks who baked our wedding cake & decorated it are also good friends!

But yeah, if that is what I wanted & a baker refused, I would cancel the whole thing as far as that baker is concerned & go somewhere else. Would I be upset? Sure, who wouldn't be? But that's all that would happen, hurt feelings & a minor inconvenience.

Hardly worth passing laws, calling on the media to cry about it. I have more dignity than that.

It takes dignity to combat bigotry also. Your choice however, as always.

If we were living in the times when my parents stood up against racism...I would be inclined to agree with you. Today, fighting "bigotry" is a joke & backed by the mainstream left & media. If a member of any designated victim group so much as breaks a nail, it's on the news.

Gays have never faced what black folks faced, not even close to that level. So I just don't see it the way you do.

Not on the level with blacks in America, but Matthew Shepard remains a sad example. Civil rights are civil rights; there is something "special" about the Bill of Rights, and the Amendments that added to our protections. As I have written, I saw the KKK march 15 years ago, one black officer was out in the heat with all the rest, protecting their liberty to be what they are.

 

[Peach]

If I asked & he refused, Id be surprised as the folks who baked our wedding cake & decorated it are also good friends!

But yeah, if that is what I wanted & a baker refused, I would cancel the whole thing as far as that baker is concerned & go somewhere else. Would I be upset? Sure, who wouldn't be? But that's all that would happen, hurt feelings & a minor inconvenience.

Hardly worth passing laws, calling on the media to cry about it. I have more dignity than that.

It takes dignity to combat bigotry also. Your choice however, as always.

If we were living in the times when my parents stood up against racism...I would be inclined to agree with you. Today, fighting "bigotry" is a joke & backed by the mainstream left & media. If a member of any designated victim group so much as breaks a nail, it's on the news.

Gays have never faced what black folks faced, not even close to that level. So I just don't see it the way you do.

Complacency is not an option for me, true.

 

[sealybobo]

No one that I knew to be gay was ever mean to me. Can't say the same for heteros. I've met many mean, angry, prickish straight people. A lot of them are bible thumpers.

 

[GISMYS]

no one that i knew to be gay was ever mean to me. Can't say the same for heteros. I've met many mean, angry, prickish straight people. A lot of them are bible thumpers.

hitler was nice to his girlfriend!!!! So!!!!

 

[LockeJaw]

Yes, it's a shame some folks kill others because they don't like the way they live like what happened to Shepeard. And yes, civil rights are civil rights. But I do not believe that anyone has the right to demand someone else serve them. That's borderline slavery and is unacceptable as far as I am concerned, so it's very hard for me to be sympathetic to a group of people advocating more of it.

Especially when they try to liken getting their feelings hurt by a baker refusing to bake a cake to my parents & aunts & uncles getting bit by police dogs, sprayed with firehoses, beaten by police, and having crosses burned in their yards. It just isn't the same, and it's insulting to say they're equivelants.

The only gays that had to sit at the back of the bus were black. No gay whites were dealing with these things.

It takes dignity to combat bigotry also. Your choice however, as always.

If we were living in the times when my parents stood up against racism...I would be inclined to agree with you. Today, fighting "bigotry" is a joke & backed by the mainstream left & media. If a member of any designated victim group so much as breaks a nail, it's on the news.

Gays have never faced what black folks faced, not even close to that level. So I just don't see it the way you do.

Not on the level with blacks in America, but Matthew Shepard remains a sad example. Civil rights are civil rights; there is something "special" about the Bill of Rights, and the Amendments that added to our protections. As I have written, I saw the KKK march 15 years ago, one black officer was out in the heat with all the rest, protecting their liberty to be what they are.

 

[LockeJaw]

Lol @ sealybob! How old are you, man? "Those straights are meeeeean and they hurt my feeeeeeewings!"

come on, you gotta have more than that?