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What About Jim Smith?

George Costanza

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As I understand it, the main objection Republicans have to "Obamacare" is, they don't want their good money being taken to support a national health care system that provides health care for others who may be unable to pay for it on their own. Republicans appear to support a system that requires everyone to pay for their own health care, rather than making it a governmental function.

OK, let's suppose Republicans have their way. Obama is out in 2012. That guy from Texas who has promised to start dismantling Obamacare "on Day 1" of his new administration, is now our President Shortly thereafter, a new, completely privatized health care system is installed. Now, everyone is responsible for purchasing their own health insurance.

Here comes Jim Smith - a healthy, 33-year-old father of three, who has a job, but who earns barely enough to support his family. He decides not to purchase health insurance because there simply is not room in the family budget for it. Besides, he is healthy and in the prime of life and figures there will be time enough to get health insurance when he is older, more in need of it and more able to afford it.

Then, one day, Jim goes in for a routine physical and learns that he has advanced prostate cancer. Immediate surgery and radiation treatments are required or he will die. Needless to say, the necessary medical services to save his life are far beyond his means.

What would the Republicans do with Jim Smith - just let him die?
 

Avatar4321

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So unless other hard working people who have had to sacrifice for what little they have pay for Jim, he is going to die? Are you familiar with the term false dichotemy?

There are more than two choices. One is he gets the medical services and he pays for them himself. You know something responsible people do. I spent a while not having insurance, do you know what happened when I got sick? I paid for the doctor myself.

I didn't look for some handout. Why would any self-respecting man do so? he chose to gamble with his health. He needs to take responsibility for his actions.

This idea that we shouldn't have to take responsibility for anything we choose is absolutely absurd.
 

CrusaderFrank

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See, Jim Smith is a Liberal, he has no family or friends, he is merely a straw man and doesn't even have a prostrate!
 

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So unless other hard working people who have had to sacrifice for what little they have pay for Jim, he is going to die? Are you familiar with the term false dichotemy?

There are more than two choices. One is he gets the medical services and he pays for them himself. You know something responsible people do. I spent a while not having insurance, do you know what happened when I got sick? I paid for the doctor myself.

I didn't look for some handout. Why would any self-respecting man do so? he chose to gamble with his health. He needs to take responsibility for his actions.

This idea that we shouldn't have to take responsibility for anything we choose is absolutely absurd.


And what responsibility does one take to ensure that his prostate remains in proper working order?
 

uscitizen

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So all republicans on here purchase their own healthcare insurance?
 

uscitizen

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So unless other hard working people who have had to sacrifice for what little they have pay for Jim, he is going to die? Are you familiar with the term false dichotemy?

There are more than two choices. One is he gets the medical services and he pays for them himself. You know something responsible people do. I spent a while not having insurance, do you know what happened when I got sick? I paid for the doctor myself.

I didn't look for some handout. Why would any self-respecting man do so? he chose to gamble with his health. He needs to take responsibility for his actions.

This idea that we shouldn't have to take responsibility for anything we choose is absolutely absurd.


And what responsibility does one take to ensure that his prostate remains in proper working order?
Ohh god caused that because he sinned by not buying healthcare insurance.
 

kwc57

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The main objection to Obama care is that the government forces you to purchase a product and will penalize you if you don't. In the end, it won't stand the Constitutional sniff test. To help solve our economic problems, why didn't the government just legislate that every American family has to buy a new car or pay a fine if they don't? Same difference.
 
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zzzz

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What happens is he dies. Only the people with money have a right to life. Poor people don't have the same rights as people with money. It's always been that way. Money is power and those who have it are creating a class society that is more an more resembling the class society of 1800 England where debtors and their families rotted in prison.
 
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George Costanza

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So unless other hard working people who have had to sacrifice for what little they have pay for Jim, he is going to die? Are you familiar with the term false dichotemy?

There are more than two choices. One is he gets the medical services and he pays for them himself. You know something responsible people do. I spent a while not having insurance, do you know what happened when I got sick? I paid for the doctor myself.

I didn't look for some handout. Why would any self-respecting man do so? he chose to gamble with his health. He needs to take responsibility for his actions.

This idea that we shouldn't have to take responsibility for anything we choose is absolutely absurd.

Unbelieveable. Absolutely unbelieveable. Do you really feel this way? If so, I feel sorry for you.

OK - passing that one for the moment. In my example, Jim Smith might have been able to have afforded health insurance if he had decided to rearrange his budget a little bit - after all, he did have a job. What about the person who has no job? Not having health insurance is not a choice for him - he flat cannot afford it. He isn't "choosing" anything.

What would you do with that guy when he comes up with something that requires medical treatment or he dies?
 
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George Costanza

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See, Jim Smith is a Liberal, he has no family or friends, he is merely a straw man and doesn't even have a prostrate!

Was there something about Jim Smith's situation and the Republican position thereon, that was incorrect?

And that's prostate, Frank, not prostrate.
 

MiddleClass

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George, Republicans are against anything Democrats are successful in passing into law, even if they agreed with it. That is called Playing Politics with America's well being, and that is why most Americans polled dislike Republicans more than Democrats.
 

kwc57

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What happens is he dies. Only the people with money have a right to life. Poor people don't have the same rights as people with money. It's always been that way. Money is power and those who have it are creating a class society that is more an more resembling the class society of 1800 England where debtors and their families rotted in prison.

Bullshit! No one is denied medical care.

http://www.google.com/search?q=indi...pw.r_cp.&fp=878435fcaef55967&biw=1024&bih=578
 

RDD_1210

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The main objection to Obama care is that the government forces you to purchase a product and will penalize you if you don't. In the end, it won't stand the Constitutional sniff test. To help solve our economic problems, why didn't the government just legislate that every American family has to buy a new car or pay a fine if they don't? Same difference.

Not even remotely comparable, but good try. LOL.
 

RDD_1210

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So unless other hard working people who have had to sacrifice for what little they have pay for Jim, he is going to die? Are you familiar with the term false dichotemy?

There are more than two choices. One is he gets the medical services and he pays for them himself. You know something responsible people do. I spent a while not having insurance, do you know what happened when I got sick? I paid for the doctor myself.

I didn't look for some handout. Why would any self-respecting man do so? he chose to gamble with his health. He needs to take responsibility for his actions.

This idea that we shouldn't have to take responsibility for anything we choose is absolutely absurd.

So people who are diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, or leukemia, or brain cancer, etc...do you have any idea how much treatment and medication costs? Of course you don't otherwise you wouldn't have typed the utterly ridiculous post you just made.
 

kwc57

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The main objection to Obama care is that the government forces you to purchase a product and will penalize you if you don't. In the end, it won't stand the Constitutional sniff test. To help solve our economic problems, why didn't the government just legislate that every American family has to buy a new car or pay a fine if they don't? Same difference.

Not even remotely comparable, but good try. LOL.

Sure it is. Government mandate. Do they have the constitutional authority or not to force a citizen to buy a product? What the product is makes no difference.
 

editec

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So unless other hard working people who have had to sacrifice for what little they have pay for Jim, he is going to die? Are you familiar with the term false dichotemy?

There are more than two choices. One is he gets the medical services and he pays for them himself. You know something responsible people do. I spent a while not having insurance, do you know what happened when I got sick? I paid for the doctor myself.

I didn't look for some handout. Why would any self-respecting man do so? he chose to gamble with his health. He needs to take responsibility for his actions.

This idea that we shouldn't have to take responsibility for anything we choose is absolutely absurd.


And what responsibility does one take to ensure that his prostate remains in proper working order?

You're young, aren't you?
 

kwc57

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So unless other hard working people who have had to sacrifice for what little they have pay for Jim, he is going to die? Are you familiar with the term false dichotemy?

There are more than two choices. One is he gets the medical services and he pays for them himself. You know something responsible people do. I spent a while not having insurance, do you know what happened when I got sick? I paid for the doctor myself.

I didn't look for some handout. Why would any self-respecting man do so? he chose to gamble with his health. He needs to take responsibility for his actions.

This idea that we shouldn't have to take responsibility for anything we choose is absolutely absurd.

So people who are diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, or leukemia, or brain cancer, etc...do you have any idea how much treatment and medication costs? Of course you don't otherwise you wouldn't have typed the utterly ridiculous post you just made.

No one is denied care. The question is how will it eventually get paid.
 

eflatminor

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He decides not to purchase health insurance...

A lack of proper planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

We didn't have Medicare before 1964 an yet everyone got healthcare because that's the kind of people we are. They got the care they needed without forcing unconstitutional redistribution through the federal government. Imagine that.
 

RDD_1210

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The main objection to Obama care is that the government forces you to purchase a product and will penalize you if you don't. In the end, it won't stand the Constitutional sniff test. To help solve our economic problems, why didn't the government just legislate that every American family has to buy a new car or pay a fine if they don't? Same difference.

Not even remotely comparable, but good try. LOL.

Sure it is. Government mandate. Do they have the constitutional authority or not to force a citizen to buy a product? What the product is makes no difference.

People aren't going bankrupt by the hundreds of thousands because they can't afford a car. So like I said...not even remotely comparable.
 

RDD_1210

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So unless other hard working people who have had to sacrifice for what little they have pay for Jim, he is going to die? Are you familiar with the term false dichotemy?

There are more than two choices. One is he gets the medical services and he pays for them himself. You know something responsible people do. I spent a while not having insurance, do you know what happened when I got sick? I paid for the doctor myself.

I didn't look for some handout. Why would any self-respecting man do so? he chose to gamble with his health. He needs to take responsibility for his actions.

This idea that we shouldn't have to take responsibility for anything we choose is absolutely absurd.

So people who are diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, or leukemia, or brain cancer, etc...do you have any idea how much treatment and medication costs? Of course you don't otherwise you wouldn't have typed the utterly ridiculous post you just made.

No one is denied care. The question is how will it eventually get paid.

There are two issues here.

1) there is a difference between basic stabilizing care and quality care.

2) How it is paid is the issue. We are and have been paying for peoples care for years. The question is, how do we do it and make it cost less.
 

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