Were the Founding Fathers Pedophiles?

[Sunni Man]

In most cultures before modern times the rule was, "Once they bleed, they are old enough to breed" and ready for marriage..

I personally know African women who were married at the age of 9 and don't think of it as unusual or odd.


Our modern society has created an artificial time period known as the 'teen age years', where nothing is expected of the teenagers.

And this has lead to many of today's problems with American youth.

Whereas, in most non western cultures kids go straight from child to adult, with adult responsibilities, at around 8 to 10 years of age. ....

 

[Coyote]

Age of consent/marriage/etc has changed over the centuries and reflects modern ideas of childhood and adolescence, modern ideas of adulthood and longer lifespans. It's really not applicable to use these laws and apply them to modern ideas of pedophilia and ethics which are considerably different. It's the same sort of argument Islamophobes use against Mohammed.

 

[Coyote]

In most cultures before modern times the rule was, "Once they bleed, they are old enough to breed" and ready for marriage..

I personally know African women who were married at the age of 9 and don't think of it as unusual or odd.


Our modern society has created an artificial time period known as the 'teen age years', where nothing is expected of the teenagers.

And this has lead to many of today's problems with American youth.

Whereas, in most non western cultures kids go straight from child to adult, with adult responsibilities, at around 8 to 10 years of age. ....

I see what you saying - and in relation to ancient societies it makes sense but in relation to modern societies, it does not.

There is considerable evidence that child marriages - age 9 or 10, are very damaging to the girl, and often abusive. I agree about teenage being a modern concept, but I wouldn't throw it out with the bathwater - there is sound reasoning to make that division in today's societies. Teens are by no means mature.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

On another thread a few days ago Delta4 Embassy was saying that child porn should be legalized.

Now this thread.

Are we seeing a pattern?? ...

Wasn't what I said at all. Said that if evidence exists supporting legalizing child pornography results in fewer incidences of child sexual abuse, then we should investigate whether that is something we should do.

That you have to lie to be popular is sad.

I understand the distinction you are making - however, it creates a bit of a circular argument that doesn't bode well.

In order to create child pornography, you have to use children....engaged in pornography - do you get what I'm saying?

It's not like adult pornography which engages consenting adults.

Same point was made in the other thread. To which I replied while I don't support legalizing child pornography that involves actual children, if pedophiles get off from "cartoons" legalizing that is worth exploring.

 

[Coyote]

Wasn't what I said at all. Said that if evidence exists supporting legalizing child pornography results in fewer incidences of child sexual abuse, then we should investigate whether that is something we should do.

That you have to lie to be popular is sad.

I understand the distinction you are making - however, it creates a bit of a circular argument that doesn't bode well.

In order to create child pornography, you have to use children....engaged in pornography - do you get what I'm saying?

It's not like adult pornography which engages consenting adults.

Same point was made in the other thread. To which I replied while I don't support legalizing child pornography that involves actual children, if pedophiles get off from "cartoons" legalizing that is worth exploring.

Ah...I see what you are saying, and it's a valid point worth exploring but almost impossible to research I would think.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I realize this is all a hotbutton issue, child pornography et al. But if people are too immature to discuss it they should stay out of it. Some of us have to address these sorts of issues because laws do have to get made. And if you're really serious about combatting child abuse and child sexual abuse, you're gonna have to be able to talk about this sort of thing.

 

[Coyote]

I'm not sure "maturity" has as much to do with it as emotion - as you say, it's a hotbutton and very emotionally charged issue, it's hard to look at it clinically and divorce oneself from the emotional impact.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Well as my OP states, some seem to have no difficulty talking or legislating about it. Returning to that, my question remains, why pick such an outrageously low age (the Delaware one) if no one was lobbying for it. And if the Founders didn't have a dog in the fight as they say, why leave it up in the air? Other countries had been setting higher ages well before we got into it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Imagine that Andrew Vachs is look closely.

The age of 7, and other low age limits, had to do with making sure property remained in the families and out of the hands of non-family guardians.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Well originally, marriage was all about property. Didn't become about love until relatively recently. So there's maybe something to that and the early US laws.

Just never heard of an age so low as 7 anywhere. Even in Arab press.

 

[Katzndogz]

Even if the age of consent was 7 there is no evidence whatsoever that the founding fathers themselves engaged in or even approved of sex with young girls. The title is pretty much a lie.

Marriage in those days was pretty casually entered into and lasted a lifetime. There were no city halls to issue marriage licenses. Sometimes the only preacher was a traveler. It might be years before the circuit preacher came back to town to say the words.

Life expectancy was short so families tended to marry girls off young so someone would take care of them in the event of parental death. Love wasn't a consideration.

There is such a strong tendency to take circumstances if the distant past and apply contemporary values to them then seeing a disastrous result when it wasn't that way at all.