Were Lincoln & Wilson Wrong?

[Flanders]

Whatever became of Lincoln healing the nation’s wounds? More to point, ignoring Lincoln is one thing, but Woodrow Wilson’s Peace Without Victory crapola is another matter. It appears that neither Lincoln or Wilson got it right. To me, it looks like kicking the loser after he is down won out over two of the Left’s icons:

On July 7 the Memphis City Council voted unanimously to exhume the body of Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest from its 110 year resting place and move it to another location.

The body of Forrest’s wife will be exhumed as well.

XXXXX​

They plan to sell a statue of Forrest as well–they are thinking of “selling the statue to anyone who wants it.”

Memphis City Council Votes to Dig Up Grave of Confederate General, Sell His Statue
by AWR Hawkins
11 Jul 2015

Memphis to Exhume Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest​

 

[Jroc]

The family has to approve of the move I doubt they will. I think there's already a thread on this

 

[Jackson]

Memphis City Council sure does not have enough to occupy their time, now do they? And they do not know their history.

 

[Flanders]

The family has to approve of the move I doubt they will.

To Jroc: I doubt if they will have any more success than the Eisenhower family is having. In addition to the design being disrespectful it is a monstrosity paid for with tax dollars:

The proposed design, which was approved by the United States Commission of Fine Arts on June 18, features massive 80-foot steel tapestries towering over a statue of the 34th president as a teenager. Critics, including members of Eisenhower’s family, have called the design disrespectful.

“Whether or not the current design is approved by the commissions has little relevance to the prospects of congressional funding,”Rep. Rob Bishop (R., Utah), the chairman of the Committee on Natural Resources, told the New York Times. “The Eisenhower Memorial Commission was repeatedly advised to halt work on the current design and to seek common ground with the Eisenhower family.”

Controversial Ike Memorial Moves Forward Despite Opposition
Congress, Eisenhower family against design
BY: Thomas Novelly
July 7, 2015 3:50 pm

Controversial Ike Memorial Moves Forward Despite Opposition Washington Free Beacon​

Memphis City Council sure does not have enough to occupy their time, now do they? And they do not know their history.

To Jackson: Politically Correct will trump history every time.

 

[jwoodie]

Whatever became of Lincoln healing the nation’s wounds? More to point, ignoring Lincoln is one thing, but Woodrow Wilson’s Peace Without Victory crapola is another matter. It appears that neither Lincoln or Wilson got it right.

Lincoln's desire to "bind up the Nation's wounds" would have met with fierce resistance from the Radical Republicans bent on vengeance against the South. Ironically, he was not opposed to slavery where it already existed, and issued the Emancipation Proclamation for the sole purpose of inciting a slave rebellion to help defeat the Confederacy. His assassination rescued him from being a villain responsible for the deaths of 750,000 Americans.

Woodrow Wilson did him one better by guaranteeing 20 million deaths in WW2. Obama may top that yet. Too bad he didn't study history instead of Rules for Radicals.

 

[Syriusly]

Whatever became of Lincoln healing the nation’s wounds? More to point, ignoring Lincoln is one thing, but Woodrow Wilson’s Peace Without Victory crapola is another matter. It appears that neither Lincoln or Wilson got it right.

Lincoln's desire to "bind up the Nation's wounds" would have met with fierce resistance from the Radical Republicans bent on vengeance against the South. Ironically, he was not opposed to slavery where it already existed, and issued the Emancipation Proclamation for the sole purpose of inciting a slave rebellion to help defeat the Confederacy. His assassination rescued him from being a villain responsible for the deaths of 750,000 Americans..

Ironically, Lincoln did not join the war started by the South with the intent of freeing slaves.

But eventually he realized that by issuing the Emancipation Proclamation- and pushing for the freedom of all slaves- the North could end the rebellion.

The Emancipation proclamation ultimately led to the freedom of all of the slaves still held by the Confederate states, and eventually to the 13th Amendment.

Lincoln's place in history is secure- despite the revisionists attempts to change that.

 

[Flanders]

Lincoln's desire to "bind up the Nation's wounds" would have met with fierce resistance from the Radical Republicans bent on vengeance against the South. Ironically, he was not opposed to slavery where it already existed, and issued the Emancipation Proclamation for the sole purpose of inciting a slave rebellion to help defeat the Confederacy. His assassination rescued him from being a villain responsible for the deaths of 750,000 Americans.

Woodrow Wilson did him one better by guaranteeing 20 million deaths in WW2. Obama may top that yet. Too bad he didn't study history instead of Rules for Radicals.

To jwoodie: You surprised me! You are on the right track with a few minor detours.

Ironically, Lincoln did not join the war started by the South with the intent of freeing slaves.

But eventually he realized that by issuing the Emancipation Proclamation- and pushing for the freedom of all slaves- the North could end the rebellion.

The Emancipation proclamation ultimately led to the freedom of all of the slaves still held by the Confederate states, and eventually to the 13th Amendment.

Lincoln's place in history is secure- despite the revisionists attempts to change that.

To Syriusly: Lincoln is not high on my list of presidents. Indeed, only Wilson is lower. Taqiyya the Liar is number 3 from the bottom. He will probably pass Lincoln before he is finished.

NOTE: When I posted the thread at the following link, I referred to Taqiyya as Hussein.

Lawyers Bankers US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum​

 

[Steven_R]

Memphis City Council sure does not have enough to occupy their time, now do they? And they do not know their history.

Nonsense. The city council has solved all of Mogadishu on the Mississippi's problems and the place is a paradise on Earth these days. All that's left to do is get rid of the body of a dead guy and their to-do list will finally be finished.

 

[Syriusly]

Lincoln's desire to "bind up the Nation's wounds" would have met with fierce resistance from the Radical Republicans bent on vengeance against the South. Ironically, he was not opposed to slavery where it already existed, and issued the Emancipation Proclamation for the sole purpose of inciting a slave rebellion to help defeat the Confederacy. His assassination rescued him from being a villain responsible for the deaths of 750,000 Americans.

Woodrow Wilson did him one better by guaranteeing 20 million deaths in WW2. Obama may top that yet. Too bad he didn't study history instead of Rules for Radicals.

To jwoodie: You surprised me! You are on the right track with a few minor detours.

Ironically, Lincoln did not join the war started by the South with the intent of freeing slaves.

But eventually he realized that by issuing the Emancipation Proclamation- and pushing for the freedom of all slaves- the North could end the rebellion.

The Emancipation proclamation ultimately led to the freedom of all of the slaves still held by the Confederate states, and eventually to the 13th Amendment.

Lincoln's place in history is secure- despite the revisionists attempts to change that.

To Syriusly: Lincoln is not high on my list of presidents. Indeed, only Wilson is lower. Taqiyya the Liar is number 3 from the bottom. He will probably pass Lincoln before he is finished.

NOTE: When I posted the thread at the following link, I referred to Taqiyya as Hussein.

Lawyers Bankers US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum​

Okay- sorry- didn't realize I was in a nutjobs thread.

We have had no President named Taqiyya.

 

[Flanders]

Okay- sorry- didn't realize I was in a nutjobs thread.

We have had no President named Taqiyya

To Syriusly: Nicknames are common. My choice always identifies the people who take the time to object to it.

 

[Syriusly]

Okay- sorry- didn't realize I was in a nutjobs thread.

We have had no President named Taqiyya

To Syriusly: Nicknames are common. My choice always identifies the people who take the time to object to it.

You choice identifies you as a wingnut.

 

[Flanders]

You choice identifies you as a wingnut.

To Syriusly: You got to the personal attack in three responses. If you were striving for mediocre you succeeded. The third reply is average for a liberal pedant to run for the last refuge of the mindless.

 

[whitehall]

Lincoln could have and should have done everything in his power as a second term elected president to keep the Union together even if it meant kissing the naked asses of every Southern politician. Lincoln should have lied and used his gift of eloquence and promised things that he could not possibly deliverer to buy a year or two or ten years of peace. He should have cajoled and stroked the fragile egos of pompous idiot potential rebels but he didn't. The alleged political genius relied on the idiots he appointed to do the right thing and he sat back nursing the fragile mental health of his wife and pretended that he had a handle on the situation but he didn't. Lincoln's personal conduct caused the incredible carnage of the Civil War.The victors write the history books and the first thing on the agenda was covering Lincoln's ass and the second and third things were to turn Lincoln into an icon and immune from criticism and that's the way the system works.

 

[konradv]

Lincoln could have and should have done everything in his power as a second term elected president to keep the Union together even if it meant kissing the naked asses of every Southern politician. Lincoln should have lied and used his gift of eloquence and promised things that he could not possibly deliverer to buy a year or two or ten years of peace. He should have cajoled and stroked the fragile egos of pompous idiot potential rebels but he didn't. The alleged political genius relied on the idiots he appointed to do the right thing and he sat back nursing the fragile mental health of his wife and pretended that he had a handle on the situation but he didn't. Lincoln's personal conduct caused the incredible carnage of the Civil War.The victors write the history books and the first thing on the agenda was covering Lincoln's ass and the second and third things were to turn Lincoln into an icon and immune from criticism and that's the way the system works.

The war started in his first term, NOT his second and he DID offer all sorts of concessions to the South, much to the despair of the abolitionists. The PBS three part series on the abolitionists was quite informative. Check it out.

Video The Abolitionists Watch American Experience Online PBS Video

 

[Flanders]

Lincoln could have and should have done everything in his power as a second term elected president to keep the Union together even if it meant kissing the naked asses of every Southern politician.

To whitehall: Lincoln could have, and should have, worked within the Constitution if he felt so strongly about preserving the Union.

NOTE: Democrats feel strongly about a lot of things, but they learned from the first Republican not to demand constitutional amendments when the court gives them everything they want.

The fact is that Lincoln saw the Constitution impeding his will. Naturally, the Civil War would have been unnecessary had the South surrendered their Rights instead of defending them.

Americans celebrate Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, but H.L. Mencken correctly evaluated the speech, "It is poetry not logic; beauty, not sense." Lincoln said that the soldiers sacrificed their lives "to the cause of self-determination -- government of the people, by the people, for the people should not perish from the earth."

Mencken says: "It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of people to govern themselves."

The Real Lincoln
Walter E. Williams | Mar 27, 2002

The Real Lincoln - Walter E. Williams - Page 1​

Mencken specifically objected to this:

THAT FROM THESE HONORED DEAD WE TAKE INCREASED DEVOTION TO THAT CAUSE FOR WHICH THEY GAVE THE LAST FULL MEASURE OF DEVOTION~THAT WE HERE HIGHLY RESOLVE THAT THESE DEAD SHALL NOT HAVE DIED IN VAIN~THAT THIS NATION UNDER GOD SHALL HAVE A NEW BIRTH OF FREEDOM~AND THAT GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE SHALL NOT PERISH FROM THE EARTH​

Nobody can make the case that America today is governed by, of, and for the people. Nobody can convince me that AMERICANS demanded open-borders, sanctuary cities, loss of their sovereignty, and everything else the federal government imposes on them. Everything the federal government does came from Lincoln’s blueprint. The result has been government by, of, and for the UNIC (United Nations/International Community) and illegal aliens.

Lincoln should have lied and used his gift of eloquence and promised things that he could not possibly deliverer to buy a year or two or ten years of peace. He should have cajoled and stroked the fragile egos of pompous idiot potential rebels but he didn't.

To whitehall: Lincoln used his gift to impose his personal belief on the country; i.e., holding the Union together. Almost every president after Lincoln behaved as though their personal moral code overrides the Constitution. Our current spiritual leader in the White House took Lincoln sacrificing the Constitution for his personal moral certainty far beyond what all of the other dirty little moralists did to the country.

Bottom line: Lincoln can be blamed for the evils of today’s big government because he took the first step towards totalitarian government. Put it in perspective by examining all the harm that flowed from holding the Union together. Note that Lincoln stole a Right from the South in addition to providing a blueprint for the theft of stealing states’ Rights from every state.

states' rights also States' rights (plural noun)

1. All rights not delegated to the federal government by the Constitution nor denied by it to the states.

2. The political position advocating strict interpretation of the Constitution with regard to the limitation of federal powers and the extension of the autonomy of the individual state to the greatest possible degree.

- states' righter (noun)​

Taqiyya the Liar is well on his way to stealing every constitutional Right, as well as betraying the country —— the very freedoms that gave Lincoln love for his country.

The victors write the history books and the first thing on the agenda was covering Lincoln's ass and the second and third things were to turn Lincoln into an icon and immune from criticism and that's the way the system works.

To whitehall: Teachers made Lincoln an icon for obvious reasons.

It was Lincoln’s assassination that made him immune from criticism for more than a century. That immunity is wearing off.

he DID offer all sorts of concessions to the South,

To konradv: He offered everything except the South’s constitutional Right to secede.

much to the despair of the abolitionists.

To konradv: Secession is what Lincoln opposed; so I do not know how much despair abolitionists were experiencing since secession would have defeated their purpose.