Well Shit, No One Told Me

[Zoom-boing]

So the water that drains and go back to the treatment plant, gets treated, nearly all of the water comes out the other end clean, but they ban it.

I worked in a wastewater treatment lab for two years. The cleaning of wastewater is a biological process. The treated water is briefly shocked with chlorine after treatment and then de-chlorinated - which is the only chemical process in the whole cycle, and there is no way to remove the phosphates... only to test for their levels and alert the state if they get too high. Excess phosphorous is very dangerous in freshwater (wastewater plants discharge "clean" effluent water back into rivers and streams), as it causes algae blooms that can kill the streams and all life in it. So you have to wash your dishes by hand to protect our important sources of fresh water? Boo effing hoo. Typical ignorant American...

And yes, big agra is also responsible for a huge dead zone in the ocean south of the Mississippi, but they are a giant corporation who control government legislation through lobbyist $$$ (Monsanto and Cargilll are two of the most evil corporations in existence), so they can do pretty much what they want. No one cares as long as you have shiny dishes, right?

Gulf Wildlife 'Dead Zone' Keeps Growing : Discovery News

So how much phosphate gets cleaned out and how much gets dumped into waterways from households, cause your link only talks about big corp crap.

Outside of widespread impacts from oil release, the drainage of the Mississippi River into the Central Gulf has deposited massive amounts of agricultural chemicals and fertilizers from agricultural activities in the Central United States

And big corp gets to do whatever they want while joe taxpayer gets crap. Got it.

I understand the problem but have yet to see facts about how much phosphates from households, specifically dishwashing detergent, are contributing to the problem.

And your damn straight I'll bitch about it when I'm paying for a product that makes my stuff look and feel like shit. Wash it by hand? Ah yes, so then the greenies will go after the energy and water overuse from that.

 

[AllieBaba]

So six months or so ago I forgot to fill up the rinse agent dispenser in the dishwasher. It was empty for about a week when I realized it. Things weren't getting as clean but the glasses in particular looked like crap. A white coating of something on them that hand washing wasn't removing. I've been making sure that damn little dispenser thingy has been topped up full for the past six months and guess what? The dishes still look and feel like crap. So I thought that maybe the dishwasher was breaking and I started looking stuff up online.

My dishwasher is just peachy but the greenies have done it again, as uncle has banned phosphate in dish detergents. Well color me in the dark on this one. Phosphate was the main cleaning ingredient in dish washing soap. They banned it from laundry detergents back in the 90's. I always thought it was my machine putting little holes in the clothes. Think again.

Now I'm all for keeping pollution down to as little impact on the environment as possible. BUT . . . why did they ban it when there is no substitute for it? I'm now using more energy and water to clean my dishes because now things will have to be wash and/or rewashed in vinegar/hot water/dish soap to try and get the film off. Hand washing uses more energy than a dish washer. And my time isn't worth shit to uncle so I won't even bother mentioning that.

Government, putting the cart before the horse . . . again.

I'm sure if I read through this thread, someone will have already told you that only certain states ban phosphates (and for good reason). You may miss the phosphates in your laundry or dishwasher cycles, but what if you had no clean water? Which would you miss the most?

States Ban Phosphate-Laden Dishwasher Soap- Appliance.Net - home and kitchen appliances - news reviews ratings recalls authorized repairs store locator

I have drunk water in a lot of questionable places in my time, and never have I suffered from "phosophate poisoning".

Nor have I heard of anyone getting it from the water.

So I think it's safe to assume that the use of phosphates over the last 100 years have not caused widespread thirst and destruction. It is unlikely that they will.

I want clean f******g dishes, thanks. I worry more about things like hepatitis and ecoli than I do about phosphates in my drinking water.

 

[catzmeow]

I'm actually okay with them removing phosphates from dish detergent. What pisses me off about this situation is that consumers weren't really alerted to this change. I almost bought a new dishwasher, feeling like mine had permanently crapped out on me. I wonder if this is responsible for the little upwards bump of consumer purchases during December/January. I want to know stuff like this, so I can adjust my dish-cleaning practices, because clean dishes are a necessity at my house.

 

[catzmeow]

So I think it's safe to assume that the use of phosphates over the last 100 years have not caused widespread thirst and destruction. It is unlikely that they will.

Actually, phosphates are directly related to the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, where phosphates draining into the GOM from the Mississippi River and other tributaries have caused a massive algae bloom that starves the water of oxygen and kills everything else off for thousands of square miles. I live on the Gulf, which is probably why I'm somewhat familiar with this phenomenon.

The Gulf of Mexico Dead Zone

 

[MaggieMae]

Poor, poor literal Maggie.

You'd be pathetic if it wasn't so sad.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous your relentless personal attacks on me appear? Grow the fuck up.

Poor baby.

Cannot even read between the lines to make adult inferences, then stomps her little foot when she cannot understand them.

Infantile.

 

[DiveCon]

You should be happy the little red dots are gone...they were full of lead.

Usually Iron Ravi.

Unless they were made in China...

Anywho, the public's "right" to clean water trumps the public's "right" to ease of dishwashing.

Besides, Consumer Reports have rated 7 of the phosphate free versions as very good...boo hoo to the manufacturers that go out of business because they are too lame to make a good product.

apply that logic to GM and Chrysler


maybe then you would understand why we shouldn't have bailed out those companies

 

[MaggieMae]

Are you? Zoom's ENTIRE THREAD is about phosphates. Teach.

Poor, poor literal Maggie.

You'd be pathetic if it wasn't so sad.

Actually, she can dual task. Maggie is quite proficient at being both Pathetic and Sad.

Am I supposed to cry?

 

[MaggieMae]

Add some liquid bleach in with your dish soap.

Some dish soaps are chemically reactive to bleach and combining them will result in a toxic cloud of chlorine gas being released. Do not advise.

I know this because I tried this very thing this weekend, with negative results.

Peroxide instead of bleach might do the job. There are many uses for peroxide from sloshing it around in your mouth to heal a kanker sore to soaking your toothbrush in it to eliminate germs. It's pretty much safe to use for anything.

 

[Samson]

Poor, poor literal Maggie.

You'd be pathetic if it wasn't so sad.

Actually, she can dual task. Maggie is quite proficient at being both Pathetic and Sad.

Am I supposed to cry?

If you have to ask, then you probably should.

 

[boedicca]

Now, that's funny.

 

[Zoom-boing]

So I couldn't find that Lemi-Shine product in the store yesterday. Will continue to look for it but in the meantime I saw Finish Glass Magic for hard water. Hmmm, ok. I will try that. Let's see what is in it. Oh, phosphates. Oh, 21% phosphates. Oh, that is three times the amount that used to be found in dish washing detergent.

Soaked the glasses and some of the plates in hot water and vinegar. The acidity of the vinegar is suppose to help remove that film/coating. I'm assuming that's what Lemi-shine will do but in the dish washer? Gave them a bit of a scrub with a scotch brite scrubby to get as much of that film/coating off as I could then put them in the dishwasher (didn't rinse the vinegar off them). Put in 4 tspn of magic glass, filled one compartment with cascade, set it to high temp rinse (I've never even used that before) and am waiting for it to get done.

I'd still like to know how much of the phosphates in household dish washing detergent gets cleaned out at a water treatment plant and how much gets released back into mother nature and if that is the primary cause of algae plumes vs. what amount of phosphates used in agriculture/commercial gets cleaned out at a water treatment plant and how much gets released back into mother nature or how much they just dump into waterways.

Why did they remove phosphates from household detergent but not restaurant detergent?

 

[Samson]

You've really become quite obsessed over clean dishware.

I want you to slowly put down that fork, and calmly walk out the door and buy some plastic utensils and paper plates.

 

[Zoom-boing]

You've really become quite obsessed over clean dishware.

I want you to slowly put down that fork, and calmly walk out the door and buy some plastic utensils and paper plates.

Nah, gotta find a way to get them as clean as they were six months ago. And I will.

 

[peach174]

You've really become quite obsessed over clean dishware.

I want you to slowly put down that fork, and calmly walk out the door and buy some plastic utensils and paper plates.

Nah, gotta find a way to get them as clean as they were six months ago. And I will.

Soak them in bleach for about two hours. That usually gets it off.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Problem solved.

Next?

 

[Ravi]

So I couldn't find that Lemi-Shine product in the store yesterday. Will continue to look for it but in the meantime I saw Finish Glass Magic for hard water. Hmmm, ok. I will try that. Let's see what is in it. Oh, phosphates. Oh, 21% phosphates. Oh, that is three times the amount that used to be found in dish washing detergent.

Soaked the glasses and some of the plates in hot water and vinegar. The acidity of the vinegar is suppose to help remove that film/coating. I'm assuming that's what Lemi-shine will do but in the dish washer? Gave them a bit of a scrub with a scotch brite scrubby to get as much of that film/coating off as I could then put them in the dishwasher (didn't rinse the vinegar off them). Put in 4 tspn of magic glass, filled one compartment with cascade, set it to high temp rinse (I've never even used that before) and am waiting for it to get done.

I'd still like to know how much of the phosphates in household dish washing detergent gets cleaned out at a water treatment plant and how much gets released back into mother nature and if that is the primary cause of algae plumes vs. what amount of phosphates used in agriculture/commercial gets cleaned out at a water treatment plant and how much gets released back into mother nature or how much they just dump into waterways.

Why did they remove phosphates from household detergent but not restaurant detergent?

Because the government always gives business a pass. Surely you've noticed this by now.

 

[Zoom-boing]

So I couldn't find that Lemi-Shine product in the store yesterday. Will continue to look for it but in the meantime I saw Finish Glass Magic for hard water. Hmmm, ok. I will try that. Let's see what is in it. Oh, phosphates. Oh, 21% phosphates. Oh, that is three times the amount that used to be found in dish washing detergent.

Soaked the glasses and some of the plates in hot water and vinegar. The acidity of the vinegar is suppose to help remove that film/coating. I'm assuming that's what Lemi-shine will do but in the dish washer? Gave them a bit of a scrub with a scotch brite scrubby to get as much of that film/coating off as I could then put them in the dishwasher (didn't rinse the vinegar off them). Put in 4 tspn of magic glass, filled one compartment with cascade, set it to high temp rinse (I've never even used that before) and am waiting for it to get done.

I'd still like to know how much of the phosphates in household dish washing detergent gets cleaned out at a water treatment plant and how much gets released back into mother nature and if that is the primary cause of algae plumes vs. what amount of phosphates used in agriculture/commercial gets cleaned out at a water treatment plant and how much gets released back into mother nature or how much they just dump into waterways.

Why did they remove phosphates from household detergent but not restaurant detergent?

Because the government always gives business a pass. Surely you've noticed this by now.

Rhetorical question, we all know the answer. . . . . What will they take away next when the algae blooms don't disappear from this ban? <sigh>

 

[MaggieMae]

So I couldn't find that Lemi-Shine product in the store yesterday. Will continue to look for it but in the meantime I saw Finish Glass Magic for hard water. Hmmm, ok. I will try that. Let's see what is in it. Oh, phosphates. Oh, 21% phosphates. Oh, that is three times the amount that used to be found in dish washing detergent.

Soaked the glasses and some of the plates in hot water and vinegar. The acidity of the vinegar is suppose to help remove that film/coating. I'm assuming that's what Lemi-shine will do but in the dish washer? Gave them a bit of a scrub with a scotch brite scrubby to get as much of that film/coating off as I could then put them in the dishwasher (didn't rinse the vinegar off them). Put in 4 tspn of magic glass, filled one compartment with cascade, set it to high temp rinse (I've never even used that before) and am waiting for it to get done.

I'd still like to know how much of the phosphates in household dish washing detergent gets cleaned out at a water treatment plant and how much gets released back into mother nature and if that is the primary cause of algae plumes vs. what amount of phosphates used in agriculture/commercial gets cleaned out at a water treatment plant and how much gets released back into mother nature or how much they just dump into waterways.

Why did they remove phosphates from household detergent but not restaurant detergent?

Are you for hire?

 

[Zoom-boing]

So I couldn't find that Lemi-Shine product in the store yesterday. Will continue to look for it but in the meantime I saw Finish Glass Magic for hard water. Hmmm, ok. I will try that. Let's see what is in it. Oh, phosphates. Oh, 21% phosphates. Oh, that is three times the amount that used to be found in dish washing detergent.

Soaked the glasses and some of the plates in hot water and vinegar. The acidity of the vinegar is suppose to help remove that film/coating. I'm assuming that's what Lemi-shine will do but in the dish washer? Gave them a bit of a scrub with a scotch brite scrubby to get as much of that film/coating off as I could then put them in the dishwasher (didn't rinse the vinegar off them). Put in 4 tspn of magic glass, filled one compartment with cascade, set it to high temp rinse (I've never even used that before) and am waiting for it to get done.

I'd still like to know how much of the phosphates in household dish washing detergent gets cleaned out at a water treatment plant and how much gets released back into mother nature and if that is the primary cause of algae plumes vs. what amount of phosphates used in agriculture/commercial gets cleaned out at a water treatment plant and how much gets released back into mother nature or how much they just dump into waterways.

Why did they remove phosphates from household detergent but not restaurant detergent?

Are you for hire?

I sound like some Donna freakin' Reed wannabe, don't I? lol I'm not, just annoyed. I realized after the glasses came out clean that aside from how they looked, how they had felt was even more bothersome to me. Quite the tactile creature I am.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Spots yeah that a real problem