We should listen to the “experts”

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sure it is. If you didn't do the ACTUAL WORK, but you got most of the money, that's stealing from the people who DID the actual work.

When the Poor steal, it's called crime.
When the Rich Steal, it's called profits.

Now for a while, we got it right. The rich paid confiscatory taxes if they got too greedy, and the middle class got paid a fair wage because they had unions. We had unprecedented prosperity when that was the case.

Nobody stole anything. If you are selling a car for X money, and I agree to buy your car for X money, then we made a mutual agreement of money in exchange for product. I didn't steal anything from you, and you didn't steal anything from me.

Nobody is out there kidnapping people and forcing them to work at Walmart. The employer offers a job descriptive of pay and benefits, and the worker applies to get that job. If the employer is interested, the applicant has the choice of accepting the opportunity or declining it. If he or she accepts the offer, they made a mutual agreement (like we did) to do X job for X pay and benefits. No theft of anything.

Actually, you'd probably get sent to that island before I would, Cleetus.

If you put all the wealthy on that Island, they'd probably not be able to do anything for themselves. The capitalist is a parasite who has convinced the world he's a vital organ. He no more creates wealth than the feudal lord in his castle.

The top 20% of our wealthiest people pay over 85% of all collected income taxes. Tell me, if we put them on an island somewhere--even if they perished, how are you going to recoup those trillions of dollars every year?

Under our current system, the country would collapse.

I made my point. You are a wonderful defeatist.. always with you it cannot be done.

The only point you made was mine, and you proved yourself wrong as always.

Actually, we all realized what a shitty idea it was when a few years later, the Stock Market crashed and took all those middle class investments with it, and you had granny working until she was 70...

Then granny should have had her money invested with an investment company that knew how to survive, and even take advantage of that market like the company that handles my IRA did.

One more time, guy. YOU ARE ON WELFARE RIGHT NOW. You should be dutifully starving to death because you are no longer useful to your boss.

Don't use words you don't understand the meaning of. I told you about that already.

 

[WEATHER53]

The only dissenters about money are those so untalented and uninspired to be able to make any
It is the ultimate “consider the source”

 

[j-mac]

[QUOTE="JoeB131

They'd happily kill us for a profit. Usaully their 'success' is based on screwing the people who do the actual work.

That's Bull Shit and you know it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

[QUOTE="JoeB131

They'd happily kill us for a profit. Usaully their 'success' is based on screwing the people who do the actual work.

That's Bull Shit and you know it.

Doctor Joe thinks that unless you come home dirty and physically exhausted, you didn't really do any work. He doesn't understand that if a man takes a shovel and digs a hole, he only made a mess. It takes an employer to find somebody that needs a hole dug, and then he gets paid for it.

 

[j-mac]

[QUOTE="JoeB131

They'd happily kill us for a profit. Usaully their 'success' is based on screwing the people who do the actual work.

That's Bull Shit and you know it.

Doctor Joe thinks that unless you come home dirty and physically exhausted, you didn't really do any work. He doesn't understand that if a man takes a shovel and digs a hole, he only made a mess. It takes an employer to find somebody that needs a hole dug, and then he gets paid for it.

Well, I will agree that he doesn't seem to understand the fundamentals of how success is achieved...The risk involved, the hours involved. All he seems to see is that someone who has sacrificed to cultivate a successful business has more than he does, and he is jealous of that...This is what today's universities are churning out...

Just ask Patrisse Cullors, a co-founder of BLM, who describes herself and others in this movement as "Trained Marxists"

Trained by whom? Our universities.

 

[JoeB131]

Nobody stole anything. If you are selling a car for X money, and I agree to buy your car for X money, then we made a mutual agreement of money in exchange for product. I didn't steal anything from you, and you didn't steal anything from me.

If the people who built that car aren't getting a fair share of what it sold for, then YES that is theft.

Doctor Joe thinks that unless you come home dirty and physically exhausted, you didn't really do any work. He doesn't understand that if a man takes a shovel and digs a hole, he only made a mess. It takes an employer to find somebody that needs a hole dug, and then he gets paid for it.

Actually, most holes are dug because the government needs them dug... So why do we need rich people again?

We had our greatest prosperity when the rich were taxed at confiscatory rates. We need to go back to that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If the people who built that car aren't getting a fair share of what it sold for, then YES that is theft.

Dodge noted.

Actually, most holes are dug because the government needs them dug... So why do we need rich people again?

We had our greatest prosperity when the rich were taxed at confiscatory rates. We need to go back to that.

We also lost the most manufacturing and jobs at the same time. You really want more of that??? Then you wonder why we want to keep people with your mentality out of leadership in this country.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

[QUOTE="JoeB131

They'd happily kill us for a profit. Usaully their 'success' is based on screwing the people who do the actual work.

That's Bull Shit and you know it.

Doctor Joe thinks that unless you come home dirty and physically exhausted, you didn't really do any work. He doesn't understand that if a man takes a shovel and digs a hole, he only made a mess. It takes an employer to find somebody that needs a hole dug, and then he gets paid for it.

Well, I will agree that he doesn't seem to understand the fundamentals of how success is achieved...The risk involved, the hours involved. All he seems to see is that someone who has sacrificed to cultivate a successful business has more than he does, and he is jealous of that...This is what today's universities are churning out...

Just ask Patrisse Cullors, a co-founder of BLM, who describes herself and others in this movement as "Trained Marxists"

Trained by whom? Our universities.

Doctor Joe is a typical leftists, a hypocrite.

He accuses industry of doing the same things he does himself; not just him, but what we all do.

When we need our transmission rebuilt or repaired, and get three estimates, do we all choose the most expensive one expecting that their mechanics are getting "a fair"wage? Of course not. When we need somebody to maintain our lawn and get three estimates, do we choose the highest priced lawn care provider? Of course not. How about plumbing or electrical work to your house???

Charity starts at home. How can you blame industry for paying a floor sweeper ten bucks an hour when they can find a bunch of people willing to do that job for the same money? Employers do the very exact same thing we do. They hire people who will do the job for the lowest price, provided it's the same quality of work they can get paying somebody more money.

 

[Unkotare]

...

If the people who built that car aren't getting a fair share of what it sold for, then YES that is theft.

...

WRONG, comrade.

 

[JoeB131]

We also lost the most manufacturing and jobs at the same time. You really want more of that??? Then you wonder why we want to keep people with your mentality out of leadership in this country.

We didn't lose those jobs because of that reason. The Europeans and Japanese have stronger unions and higher taxes on their rich assholes than we do. We lost manufacturing jobs because - wait for it - corporations got greedy and produced crap.

When we need our transmission rebuilt or repaired, and get three estimates, do we all choose the most expensive one expecting that their mechanics are getting "a fair"wage? Of course not. When we need somebody to maintain our lawn and get three estimates, do we choose the highest priced lawn care provider? Of course not. How about plumbing or electrical work to your house???

Actually, I never go with the lowest bidder, I usually go with the most qualified one. I was in purchasing for 20 years, buddy. I realize the cheapest guy is not always the best guy. I also look at service levels and quality. Had too many cases where a "cheap" vendor provided me with crap.

Charity starts at home. How can you blame industry for paying a floor sweeper ten bucks an hour when they can find a bunch of people willing to do that job for the same money? Employers do the very exact same thing we do. They hire people who will do the job for the lowest price, provided it's the same quality of work they can get paying somebody more money.

Again, we don't give them a choice. Living Wage- REQUIRED. Done. Finished. Or they can sweep their own damned floor.

Hey, buddy, you know who does most of the floor sweeping these days. Those UNDOCUMENTED LABORERS you guys live in fear of. Americans won't work for those wages.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We didn't lose those jobs because of that reason. The Europeans and Japanese have stronger unions and higher taxes on their rich assholes than we do. We lost manufacturing jobs because - wait for it - corporations got greedy and produced crap.

Correct, because Chinese made products are so high quality.

Europeans and Japanese buy their own products--we don't. It's a trend that started here after the 80's recession and kept growing and is still growing today. All costs go into the price of products. Consumers finally had it with paying for a product from a company that was paying their floor sweepers 50K a year. Eventually it spread to the auto market and we are where we are today.

Actually, I never go with the lowest bidder, I usually go with the most qualified one. I was in purchasing for 20 years, buddy. I realize the cheapest guy is not always the best guy. I also look at service levels and quality. Had too many cases where a "cheap" vendor provided me with crap.

Which is why I said the same quality.

Again, we don't give them a choice. Living Wage- REQUIRED. Done. Finished. Or they can sweep their own damned floor.

Hey, buddy, you know who does most of the floor sweeping these days. Those UNDOCUMENTED LABORERS you guys live in fear of. Americans won't work for those wages.

They would if those wages went up, and without those illegals, they would. But you and your party usher in these criminals and they take our jobs and keep our wages down. Your Mayors warn them when ICE are doing workplace raids. Your leaders give them drivers licenses so they can get to these jobs they are not legally allowed to have. After all this, your comrades are screaming we need to lock up American employers who hire them.

 

[JoeB131]

Correct, because Chinese made products are so high quality.

That didn't happen in the 80's, bud. If you are complaining all the factories shut down, that happened in the 70's and 80's, when the Japanese and Europeans ate our lunch. No, you aren't going to buy a Chinese Car (even though many of the components were probably made in China.) You might buy a Cell Phone because a Cell phone only has a lifespan of about two years due to planned obselence.

Which is why I said the same quality.

Again, you don't seem to get that quality and price aren't hand in hand... If you get it cheap, it won't be quality, it you get it quality, it won't be cheap.

They would if those wages went up, and without those illegals, they would. But you and your party usher in these criminals and they take our jobs and keep our wages down. Your Mayors warn them when ICE are doing workplace raids. Your leaders give them drivers licenses so they can get to these jobs they are not legally allowed to have. After all this, your comrades are screaming we need to lock up American employers who hire them.

Yup.. because at the end of the day, it's the employers who are the problem, not the states and cities who are trying to cope with the community.

We could fix the illegal problem in ten minutes.

1) Go after people who hire them, viciously.
2) Institute a guest worker program for low-skilled labor Americans don't want to do.

Problem. Solved.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That didn't happen in the 80's, bud. If you are complaining all the factories shut down, that happened in the 70's and 80's, when the Japanese and Europeans ate our lunch. No, you aren't going to buy a Chinese Car (even though many of the components were probably made in China.) You might buy a Cell Phone because a Cell phone only has a lifespan of about two years due to planned obselence.

Nah, I've had cell phones for several years. Of course I only purchase Apple products. Places have been moving out of state or out of the country for years. You can make any product you like, but if consumers won't buy it because of price, you close down. So industries had two choices: move, or join their former employees in the unemployment line.

As I stated before, I was in the industry. I delivered crates to companies closing up and discussed their situations with the supervisor or owners. They all were forced to move against their own wishes. But they had no real other choice.

Again, you don't seem to get that quality and price aren't hand in hand... If you get it cheap, it won't be quality, it you get it quality, it won't be cheap.

I've hired contractors that were expensive and did a lousy job. I've hired people for reasonable rates and were the best. Quality is not always proportional to price.

Yup.. because at the end of the day, it's the employers who are the problem, not the states and cities who are trying to cope with the community.

We could fix the illegal problem in ten minutes.

1) Go after people who hire them, viciously.
2) Institute a guest worker program for low-skilled labor Americans don't want to do.

Problem. Solved.

So wrong because people come here for a variety of reasons, not just jobs. Democrats welcome these people in with open arms and even protect them with their idiotic sanctuary policies. The more low skilled workers you bring in, the more our wages stay down. If industry cannot hire people for low wages, they will be forced to increase their offers, or not get anybody at all.

Correct, the problem could be solved in ten minutes. Create a law that being in this country is a felony, punishable by a minimum of five years in prison. I stress minimum because a judge could sentence them up to ten years. Upon release, immediate deportation. For a second offense, a minimum of ten years in prison.

We give them until September 1st to be out of this country. After that, we start arresting them. It will not only prevent people from coming here, but result in self deportation. Our borders would once again be flooded, only this time, with people wanting to get the hell out of this country.

 

[JoeB131]

As I stated before, I was in the industry. I delivered crates to companies closing up and discussed their situations with the supervisor or owners. They all were forced to move against their own wishes. But they had no real other choice.

Yes, let's not forget, your city was the one where the river caught on fire regularly and Lake Erie was so polluted it was a national joke. But it was those mean old unions.

So wrong because people come here for a variety of reasons, not just jobs. Democrats welcome these people in with open arms and even protect them with their idiotic sanctuary policies. The more low skilled workers you bring in, the more our wages stay down. If industry cannot hire people for low wages, they will be forced to increase their offers, or not get anybody at all.

Only reason they are coming here is because there are jobs. The reality, as much as you scream about illegals, a lot of the problems you racists supported caused the problem. Tighter security... It just meant instead of coming up here seasonally, they came to stay because sneaking across the border every year became a hassle. Of course, the amount of undocumented from Mexico jumped in teh 1990's because NAFTA destroyed the Mexican Agriculture Industry, but you don't hear a lot about that.

Correct, the problem could be solved in ten minutes. Create a law that being in this country is a felony, punishable by a minimum of five years in prison. I stress minimum because a judge could sentence them up to ten years. Upon release, immediate deportation. For a second offense, a minimum of ten years in prison.

Wow, I sometimes think you are smart, and sometimes think you are a high-functioning retard.

You can't really threaten them with prison when the poverty they are going back to is so much worse.

I'll put it in terms even a moron like you can understand. The only food you have available is in a Wile E. Coyote like death trap. There might even be a couple of piles of bones near that food. THere's going to be a point where you'll get so hungry you'll risk it.

If you have plenty of food, you won't bother.

You really can't threaten people who have nothing else to lose. This is the problem you guys always have with dealing with crime and poverty... you scratch your head wondering why people who are desperate do desperate things.

Meanwhile, going after the rich assholes who hire them. THEY have something to lose. You don't even have to send them to jail, just threaten to take their stuff.

 

[j-mac]

We could fix the illegal problem in ten minutes.

1) Go after people who hire them, viciously.
2) Institute a guest worker program for low-skilled labor Americans don't want to do.

Problem. Solved.

Oh sure, Why is it always attack the businesses with you people, then when they shutter, you people blame the job losses on the Republican's?

While I would agree that Employers that are chronic abusers of illegal labor need to face consquences for that behavior, you can NOT put the onus completely on them when you have Democrats in office right now that are obstructing the things necessary to stem the flow of illegal immigration in the first place...

As for a guest worker program, we already have that...So what you are saying is to increase the numbers. All during the fear tactics employed by Democrats and the liberal press over Covid....Good luck.

So, you're not even close to solving anything.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes, let's not forget, your city was the one where the river caught on fire regularly and Lake Erie was so polluted it was a national joke. But it was those mean old unions.

And your city had over 100 shootings with a dozen dead two weekends ago, including an 3 year old kid. You have no room to talk living in a crime infested city like yours. In spite of the river fire, Cleveland continued to thrive until people were stupid enough to start putting Democrats in charge and instituted forced bussing. We also had large mobs here because of those unions, and of course, people quit buying union products.

Only reason they are coming here is because there are jobs. The reality, as much as you scream about illegals, a lot of the problems you racists supported caused the problem. Tighter security... It just meant instead of coming up here seasonally, they came to stay because sneaking across the border every year became a hassle. Of course, the amount of undocumented from Mexico jumped in teh 1990's because NAFTA destroyed the Mexican Agriculture Industry, but you don't hear a lot about that.

You have no evidence of your claim, and CNN brainwashing isn't evidence. They are not staying because it's too difficult to come back, they are staying because of the over generous hospitality offered to them in Democrat run cities. They provide them with free education, drivers licenses, warnings of ICE raids, protection against any federal agency, and now in some states, even free healthcare, all paid for by the American taxpayers.

It's estimated that there are 25 million illegals in this country, and there's probably more. I seriously doubt if half of them have jobs they are legally not allowed to have. And if there are, they are in Democrat strongholds where the businesses feel safe because of Democrat protection.

Wow, I sometimes think you are smart, and sometimes think you are a high-functioning retard.

You can't really threaten them with prison when the poverty they are going back to is so much worse.

I'll put it in terms even a moron like you can understand. The only food you have available is in a Wile E. Coyote like death trap. There might even be a couple of piles of bones near that food. THere's going to be a point where you'll get so hungry you'll risk it.

If you have plenty of food, you won't bother.

You really can't threaten people who have nothing else to lose. This is the problem you guys always have with dealing with crime and poverty... you scratch your head wondering why people who are desperate do desperate things.

Meanwhile, going after the rich assholes who hire them. THEY have something to lose. You don't even have to send them to jail, just threaten to take their stuff.

These people are not coming here because they are starving, they are coming here because it's a much better place. The family and friends they left behind are surviving just fine. No matter how bad your environment, anyplace beats living behind the walls of a prison. Would it work on everybody? No it won't, just like it doesn't work on all our people.

However it would eliminate at minimum 90% of our problem, especially in tricky areas such as Birther Tourism and Visa overstays. No deterrent to illegal activity encourages it. Deterrents discourage it. The stronger the deterrent, the better outcome you will have.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh sure, Why is it always attack the businesses with you people, then when they shutter, you people blame the job losses on the Republican's?

While I would agree that Employers that are chronic abusers of illegal labor need to face consequences for that behavior, you can NOT put the onus completely on them when you have Democrats in office right now that are obstructing the things necessary to stem the flow of illegal immigration in the first place...

Um, yeah, you kind of can put the onus on them, because that's EXACTLY what Republicans did with the Simpson Mazolli Act, that put the responsiblity of determining work eligibility on employers.

As long as they are hiring, illegals will come. Period. Full stop.

As for a guest worker program, we already have that...So what you are saying is to increase the numbers. All during the fear tactics employed by Democrats and the liberal press over Covid....Good luck.

Covid won't last forever... I'm talking about long term solutions.

But let's be honest, this isn't about solving problems, this is about hating brown people. I can't fix that. I mean other than sending people like you and Ray to Tolerance classes.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Covid won't last forever... I'm talking about long term solutions.

But let's be honest, this isn't about solving problems, this is about hating brown people. I can't fix that. I mean other than sending people like you and Ray to Tolerance classes.

Yes, we know. In the book 1984, it was referred to as re-programming, usually done in room 101.

 

[JoeB131]

And your city had over 100 shootings with a dozen dead two weekends ago, including an 3 year old kid. You have no room to talk living in a crime infested city like yours. In spite of the river fire, Cleveland continued to thrive until people were stupid enough to start putting Democrats in charge and instituted forced bussing. We also had large mobs here because of those unions, and of course, people quit buying union products.

Again, we had a handle on crime until the National Rampage Association got our gun laws thrown out.

Cleveland is a shithole. When I was there, the only NEW buildings I saw belonged to the banks.

It's estimated that there are 25 million illegals in this country, and there's probably more. I seriously doubt if half of them have jobs they are legally not allowed to have. And if there are, they are in Democrat strongholds where the businesses feel safe because of Democrat protection.

Wrong. It's less than 11 million. Most of them work in agriculture in the Red States. IN fact, the reason why the distribution of meat has collapsed is because Trump deported too many of them.

These people are not coming here because they are starving, they are coming here because it's a much better place. The family and friends they left behind are surviving just fine. No matter how bad your environment, anyplace beats living behind the walls of a prison. Would it work on everybody? No it won't, just like it doesn't work on all our people.

We lock up 2 million people... it doesn't work at all. Time to try something else other than "punish the darkies".

However it would eliminate at minimum 90% of our problem, especially in tricky areas such as Birther Tourism and Visa overstays. No deterrent to illegal activity encourages it. Deterrents discourage it. The stronger the deterrent, the better outcome you will have.

Naw, man, appealling to your mean-spirited nature isn't a plan.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, we know. In the book 1984, it was referred to as re-programming, usually done in room 101.

Nobody believes you ever read a book, Ray. Your racism is a pretty serious illness.