We should listen to the “experts”

[Ray From Cleveland]

Again, we had a handle on crime until the National Rampage Association got our gun laws thrown out.

Cleveland is a shithole. When I was there, the only NEW buildings I saw belonged to the banks.

Which proves my earlier point which is you didn't go very far in our town. No, your city has been filled with crime for many years. What gun laws did the NRA have thrown out? Who were their lawyers? Who paid them?

Wrong. It's less than 11 million. Most of them work in agriculture in the Red States. IN fact, the reason why the distribution of meat has collapsed is because Trump deported too many of them.

I've proven that point wrong repeatedly. Do you think if you repeat a lie often enough, it eventually will become truth? Illegals are in many different areas of work. They don't flock to those liberal cities because of all the agriculture we have in them.

We lock up 2 million people... it doesn't work at all. Time to try something else other than "punish the darkies".

It doesn't work as well as it could, but liberal judges have removed the deterrents from being in prison throughout the years. Want to see what prisons should really look like? Watch the classic movie Cool Hand Luke.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes, we know. In the book 1984, it was referred to as re-programming, usually done in room 101.

Nobody believes you ever read a book, Ray. Your racism is a pretty serious illness.

You think so? I think being a self-hating white is, but we all have our opinions.

 

[JoeB131]

Which proves my earlier point which is you didn't go very far in our town.

What I saw was bad enough. A downtown that looked like a ******* Zombie Movie was about to break out.

I've proven that point wrong repeatedly. Do you think if you repeat a lie often enough, it eventually will become truth? Illegals are in many different areas of work. They don't flock to those liberal cities because of all the agriculture we have in them.

Nor do they have to.

CHeck it out, buddy, they live all over the country and more in Texas and FLorida than Illinois or New York...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What I saw was bad enough. A downtown that looked like a ******* Zombie Movie was about to break out.

So you sat in a hotel room, looked out your window, and made a determination on an entire city, most of which you never seen.

Nor do they have to.

CHeck it out, buddy, they live all over the country and more in Texas and FLorida than Illinois or New York...

Looks to me like Illinois is pretty high on the chart; more than us in Ohio. Yes, they are all over the country unfortunately, and in all lines of work. It's only common sense that they would reside in states closest to the border.

But I'm trying to be compassionate with you here Doctor Joe. This is Independence day, a totally depressing day for you and your comrades who hate independence. Not to worry, this celebration of freedom will be over with by tomorrow, and you can resume with your promotion of cradle-to-grave government.

 

[JoeB131]

So you sat in a hotel room, looked out your window, and made a determination on an entire city, most of which you never seen.

Actually, I drove downtown too and from the place I was training at... It was still a dump.

Looks to me like Illinois is pretty high on the chart; more than us in Ohio. Yes, they are all over the country unfortunately, and in all lines of work. It's only common sense that they would reside in states closest to the border.

Your point was that it was those BAD BLUE STATE guys inviting them, but FL and TX have more than IL. So maybe, they are coming because rich people are inviting them.

SO- PROBLEM SOLVED- Take the shit away from the rich people who hire them. Done. Mike Drop.

But I'm trying to be compassionate with you here Doctor Joe. This is Independence day, a totally depressing day for you and your comrades who hate independence.

Uh, which one of us has a DD214 again? Oh, right. That would be ME.

Not to worry, this celebration of freedom will be over with by tomorrow, and you can resume with your promotion of cradle-to-grave government.

Again - Me - Veteran. You. Never served.
Me - Hard working tax payer and business owner. You. - ON ******* WELFARE FOR THE LAZY.

You should totally tear up your welfare check... that will show me your dedication to "Freedom".

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Your point was that it was those BAD BLUE STATE guys inviting them, but FL and TX have more than IL. So maybe, they are coming because rich people are inviting them.

SO- PROBLEM SOLVED- Take the shit away from the rich people who hire them. Done. Mike Drop.

No, it would solve very little, while locking up Americans and closing them down taking away more industry. If they aren't here in the first place, there is nobody they could hire. What we could do is take away anchor baby status, and that will stop a lot of them from coming.

Uh, which one of us has a DD214 again? Oh, right. That would be ME.

What does that have to do with anything? I'm sure you didn't join out of patriotism given how much you hate this country, our Constitution, and system of governance.

Again - Me - Veteran. You. Never served.
Me - Hard working tax payer and business owner. You. - ON ******* WELFARE FOR THE LAZY.

You should totally tear up your welfare check... that will show me your dedication to "Freedom".

Get government to give me my job back and I'll do just that. In fact I just had to renew my license last month, and I kept my CDL in the event things get so bad in this country my services are needed, and they'd be willing to let me work.

That aside, did you get any government benefits for joining the reserves? If you did, you should not use any of them. If you did use any of them, you are a hypocrite. Like the benefits you got, I paid into this system (by force) my entire life. We both got something that we worked for. So how are your benefits not welfare and mine are?

Again, you should avoid using big words you don't understand.

 

[JoeB131]

No, it would solve very little, while locking up Americans and closing them down taking away more industry. If they aren't here in the first place, there is nobody they could hire. What we could do is take away anchor baby status, and that will stop a lot of them from coming.

Sorry, man, 14th Amendment says they are citizens if they drop here. If there are jobs here, they will come. no matter how mean and angry you become. Your anger is misdirected, as always.

What does that have to do with anything? I'm sure you didn't join out of patriotism given how much you hate this country, our Constitution, and system of governance.

Actually, when I was a young man, I was a Reagan REpublicans... But to paraphrase Reagan, I didn't leave the GOP, the GOP left me. Ronald Reagan wouldn't be welcome in today's GOP. Neither would Ike, Nixon, Ford, either Bush, McCain or Romney.

I love my country. I also realize it was founded on slavery and genocide. Kind of how one can love one's parents knowing they are flawed people.

Our constitution, on the other hand, is flawed and outdated. We really need a new one.

Get government to give me my job back and I'll do just that. In fact I just had to renew my license last month, and I kept my CDL in the event things get so bad in this country my services are needed, and they'd be willing to let me work.

SOrry, man, you are too dangerous to let drive.

That aside, did you get any government benefits for joining the reserves? If you did, you should not use any of them. If you did use any of them, you are a hypocrite. Like the benefits you got, I paid into this system (by force) my entire life. We both got something that we worked for. So how are your benefits not welfare and mine are?

Mine were specifically for services rendered. (I really didn't get anything before I joined the military, and I was active duty, not just in the guard.) You do so many years of service, you get your base pay PLUS these benefits, which benefited the military as much as they did me.

You on the other hand, are collecting welfare because you don't want to get off your ass and find another job you think is beneath you. Just like your HUD neighbors.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sorry, man, 14th Amendment says they are citizens if they drop here. If there are jobs here, they will come. no matter how mean and angry you become. Your anger is misdirected, as always.

No, it really doesn't say that. The amendment was created for former slaves, not people invading our country.

Put up the wall, make being here illegally a felony, get rid of sanctuary cities and states, make a law nobody but citizens can obtain a drivers license, kick their children out of our schools that we pay for, and arrest anybody including Governors and Mayors that alert anybody of workplace raids by ICE.

That's what will get rid of them.

SOrry, man, you are too dangerous to let drive.

Then why do you whine about me not working all the time Doctor Joe?

Mine were specifically for services rendered. (I really didn't get anything before I joined the military, and I was active duty, not just in the guard.) You do so many years of service, you get your base pay PLUS these benefits, which benefited the military as much as they did me.

You on the other hand, are collecting welfare because you don't want to get off your ass and find another job you think is beneath you. Just like your HUD neighbors.

Nope, my HUD neighbors are younger and likely healthier. I can't confirm that because unlike you, I don't pretend to know more than doctors. As I have proven repeatedly, nobody will hire me at this age with no experience at anything and pay a reasonable wage. Those days went by in the early 80's and even before. You tried to show me I was wrong and failed miserably, yet you can't accept reality no matter what one proves to you.

That's besides the fact all of our leaders are suggesting that people who are at high risk of death if catching this virus remain home as much as possible. That's exactly what I'm doing. When I worked, I paid into this program all of my life. It was not my choice to be on it, it was governments choice, so when you can't sleep at night because that's my situation and your OCD (that you won't get treated) is killing you, write to your precious government and tell them about it.

 

[WEATHER53]

Hard to say when most Americans lost their will and decided government is the proper nanny
I know 20.% of us can do math and stats and want our life back but the malaise bunch just likes sitting back, doing nothing, Obsessing about health and lying to lambasting everyone whose not in hiding

 

[JoeB131]

No, it really doesn't say that. The amendment was created for former slaves, not people invading our country.

IT CLEARLY SAYS THAT.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Put up the wall, make being here illegally a felony, get rid of sanctuary cities and states, make a law nobody but citizens can obtain a drivers license, kick their children out of our schools that we pay for, and arrest anybody including Governors and Mayors that alert anybody of workplace raids by ICE.

So you want to live in a racist police state. You must be an angry guy. Thankfully, the America I Fought to protect isn't that country.

No walls. Being here without papers is a misdemeanor, and states and cities have the right to enforce the laws. Next up, abolish ICE.

Then why do you whine about me not working all the time Doctor Joe?

Because your lazy ass can do other things.

Nope, my HUD neighbors are younger and likely healthier. I can't confirm that because unlike you, I don't pretend to know more than doctors. As I have proven repeatedly, nobody will hire me at this age with no experience at anything and pay a reasonable wage. Those days went by in the early 80's and even before. You tried to show me I was wrong and failed miserably, yet you can't accept reality no matter what one proves to you.

Actually, the only thing I showed is that you have a loser mentality.... and always will. I guess driving in a straight line was as complicated as it got for you.

That's besides the fact all of our leaders are suggesting that people who are at high risk of death if catching this virus remain home as much as possible. That's exactly what I'm doing.

Covid won't be around forever, but I'm sure you'll have a new excuse when it's gone.

When I worked, I paid into this program all of my life. It was not my choice to be on it, it was governments choice, so when you can't sleep at night because that's my situation and your OCD (that you won't get treated) is killing you, write to your precious government and tell them about it.

Naw, man, I'm just pointing out you are NO BETTER than the HUD people next door. The sad thing is, you think you are.

Enjoy your welfare, man... You didn't earn it, but enjoy it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

IT CLEARLY SAYS THAT.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Correct, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof means loyalty to country which foreigners are not. They are loyal to their country, not ours, which means their children are not Americans.

So you want to live in a racist police state. You must be an angry guy. Thankfully, the America I Fought to protect isn't that country.

No walls. Being here without papers is a misdemeanor, and states and cities have the right to enforce the laws. Next up, abolish ICE.

Yes, that is the way it is, so quit blaming the employers and blame the Democrat party for the problems we are having today with immigrants. Get rid of ICE? Let's see how getting rid of the police is going to work out first. This is going to be a hell of a summer when your death toll is in the dozens every week in Chicago. And when your people finally kill each other off, don't blame the Electoral College for your loss, because nearly every death is likely a death of a potential Democrat voter.

You fought to protect this country? Which war were you in?

Because your lazy ass can do other things.

I asked repeatedly, like what? You couldn't come up with a cogent answer.

Actually, the only thing I showed is that you have a loser mentality.... and always will. I guess driving in a straight line was as complicated as it got for you.

Yep, and every American should have the right to work at a job of their choice. I know you commies are against that. Unfortunately for us freedom loving Americans, the commies created bureaucracies against the structure of our government the founders created, and now I'm out of a job because of it.

Covid won't be around forever, but I'm sure you'll have a new excuse when it's gone.

I can legally work now if I wanted, but I'm staying away from everybody as much as possible. I'm 60 years old now, you expect me to go out and get a job with no experience at anything at 62, 63, 65 if or when this virus thing is past us?

Naw, man, I'm just pointing out you are NO BETTER than the HUD people next door. The sad thing is, you think you are.

Enjoy your welfare, man... You didn't earn it, but enjoy it.

I earned every penny because I paid into it all my life. Yes, I am enjoying it. The best summer I can remember in decades minus the virus. If you don't like it, go petition your Democrat party to get rid of the program. In fact, petition them to get rid of all social programs including HUD.

Your jealousy is what makes this discussion so entertaining.

 

[JoeB131]

Correct, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof means loyalty to country which foreigners are not. They are loyal to their country, not ours, which means their children are not Americans.

newborns have no loyalty... they are newborns. You aren't very bright, are you?

Yep, and every American should have the right to work at a job of their choice. I know you commies are against that. Unfortunately for us freedom loving Americans, the commies created bureaucracies against the structure of our government the founders created, and now I'm out of a job because of it.

Actually, they are doing their jobs... they are keeping unfit drivers off our roads. We are all better off for it.

I earned every penny because I paid into it all my life. Yes, I am enjoying it. The best summer I can remember in decades minus the virus. If you don't like it, go petition your Democrat party to get rid of the program. In fact, petition them to get rid of all social programs including HUD.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, that is the way it is, so quit blaming the employers and blame the Democrat party for the problems we are having today with immigrants. Get rid of ICE? Let's see how getting rid of the police is going to work out first. This is going to be a hell of a summer when your death toll is in the dozens every week in Chicago. And when your people finally kill each other off, don't blame the Electoral College for your loss, because nearly every death is likely a death of a potential Democrat voter.

No, it's the employer. Once you take every ******* thing one of these people has, watch how fast the rest get with the program.

Ray, Trump is done because he has the worst riots ever.... you don't have riots and get to keep your job. Just ask George H. Bush or LBJ.

I asked repeatedly, like what? You couldn't come up with a cogent answer.

I came up with a bunch of things... now, you'd probably suck at them because you are such a misanthrope, but that's on you, buddy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, it's the employer. Once you take every ******* thing one of these people has, watch how fast the rest get with the program.

Ray, Trump is done because he has the worst riots ever.... you don't have riots and get to keep your job. Just ask George H. Bush or LBJ.

Only you leftists will see it that way, and who cares what you think? You were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So what will open minded people see?

A police officer in a Democrat city killed a black man. He was immediately arrested and charged with murder. In spite of that, Democrats protested and rioted in Democrat cities, and many in Democrat states. The Mayors of those cities did nothing; one even referring to the riots as the Summer of Love.

They refused to call the national guard in, refused to ask Trump for help, and allowed it to go on until this day. The Democrats allowed them to take over city blocks, and even over a police station. Shootings and murders went up dramatically, and the ripping down of statues became common criminal activity.

But you think the public is going to blame a Republican President for all this and not the Democrats?

I came up with a bunch of things... now, you'd probably suck at them because you are such a misanthrope, but that's on you, buddy.

All you came up with are a bunch of generalizations, but nothing to support your phony claim. Nobody is going to hire a 60 year old with no experience in whatever, with some disabilities, pay him a decent wage, and provide benefits. Now tap the heels of your shoes together and repeat, there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home.

 

[j-mac]

Oh sure, Why is it always attack the businesses with you people, then when they shutter, you people blame the job losses on the Republican's?

While I would agree that Employers that are chronic abusers of illegal labor need to face consequences for that behavior, you can NOT put the onus completely on them when you have Democrats in office right now that are obstructing the things necessary to stem the flow of illegal immigration in the first place...

Um, yeah, you kind of can put the onus on them, because that's EXACTLY what Republicans did with the Simpson Mazolli Act, that put the responsiblity of determining work eligibility on employers.

As long as they are hiring, illegals will come. Period. Full stop.

As for a guest worker program, we already have that...So what you are saying is to increase the numbers. All during the fear tactics employed by Democrats and the liberal press over Covid....Good luck.

Covid won't last forever... I'm talking about long term solutions.

But let's be honest, this isn't about solving problems, this is about hating brown people. I can't fix that. I mean other than sending people like you and Ray to Tolerance classes.

Spoken like a true Marxist....

 

[JoeB131]

Only you leftists will see it that way, and who cares what you think? You were never going to vote for Trump anyway. So what will open minded people see?

Trump Cultists aren't open minded.

A police officer in a Democrat city killed a black man. He was immediately arrested and charged with murder. In spite of that, Democrats protested and rioted in Democrat cities, and many in Democrat states. The Mayors of those cities did nothing; one even referring to the riots as the Summer of Love.

It wasn't the killing that was the problem, it was Trump's reaction to it, which was to whip up his angry base and gas peaceful protesters. This is what you don't get , Welfare Boy. Even sensible white people now realize this is a problem that needs to be addressed. The very fact that you have now switched from cheering cops killing black people to blaming "democratic cities" for a bad cop, says you've kind of lost on this issue.

They refused to call the national guard in, refused to ask Trump for help, and allowed it to go on until this day. The Democrats allowed them to take over city blocks, and even over a police station. Shootings and murders went up dramatically, and the ripping down of statues became common criminal activity.

And all of this reflects badly on Trump. The paralysis of the Federal Government on this issue, along with Covid and the Recession, deflate the Faustian Bargain of Trump.

Remember, for the last three years, you SHITHEADS have been telling us that Trump's racism, divisiveness, corruption was all okay as long as the Economy was good and things were going well. Even though that was the status quo when he took over.

Well now- TRUMP PLAUGE. TRUMP RECESSION. TRUMP RIOTS.

You have no argument. Make American Great Again is an argument. "NOT MY FAULT, NOT MY FAULT" isn't...

Nobody is going to hire a 60 year old with no experience in whatever, with some disabilities, pay him a decent wage, and provide benefits.

Again, have done that with lots of clients, so, no. Of course, you actually have some ambition, and clearly you don't.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It wasn't the killing that was the problem, it was Trump's reaction to it, which was to whip up his angry base and gas peaceful protesters. This is what you don't get , Welfare Boy. Even sensible white people now realize this is a problem that needs to be addressed. The very fact that you have now switched from cheering cops killing black people to blaming "democratic cities" for a bad cop, says you've kind of lost on this issue.

Sorry OCD man, but what goes on in Democrat cities is not up to the President, it's up to city leaders. What goes on in states are not under the purview of the President, they are under the Governor, state reps and Senators. If police feel they have to use tear gas, that was not the Presidents call, it was the decision of the authorities because obviously the crowd disobeyed the orders of the police which is the genesis of all our problems in the first place. As we both know, you liberals have the mentality of children, and refuse to believe anybody can tell you what to do.

The President is helpless to do anything in these cities or states. The law and Constitution forbid it. If they want help, they need to make a formal request. Until they do, the President cannot do anything unless he initiates the insurrection act, which has many limitations.

And all of this reflects badly on Trump. The paralysis of the Federal Government on this issue, along with Covid and the Recession, deflate the Faustian Bargain of Trump.

No, you are hoping it reflects bad on Trump which is why these Democrats are allowing their cities to be burned down, looted, and countless people getting killed. Politics first--people second. That's the Democrat platform. It's why they are weakening their police departments; more death and destruction.

However it's simply a matter of the President reminding people that if the Nazi's takeover, their cities are an example of what the entire country will look like, and that will make every voter think.

Remember, for the last three years, you SHITHEADS have been telling us that Trump's racism, divisiveness, corruption was all okay as long as the Economy was good and things were going well. Even though that was the status quo when he took over.

Oh please with your leftist propaganda. Trump never divided anybody. It's the Democrats that divide: rich vs poor, religious vs non-religious, black vs white, gun owners vs non-gun owners, criminals vs cops, industry vs worker, all designed to turn groups of Americans against each other.

So let VP dementia bring that up during the debates. Trump will tear him a new one. Democrats divide people into groups, and then decide which groups of Americans they love, and which groups of Americans they hate.

Well now- TRUMP PLAUGE. TRUMP RECESSION. TRUMP RIOTS.

In your dreams.

Again, have done that with lots of clients, so, no. Of course, you actually have some ambition, and clearly you don't.

And all these so-called clients of yours, you are not able to give me one example of a person in my situation. You must not have many clients, and I'm sure there's a good reason for that.

 

[JoeB131]

Sorry OCD man, but what goes on in Democrat cities is not up to the President, it's up to city leaders. What goes on in states are not under the purview of the President, they are under the Governor, state reps and Senators.

Buddy, you can say that.

BUt- THe voters in 1968 didn't hold LBJ blameless for the riots.
The voters in 1992 didn't hold George H. Bush blameless for the LA Riots.

Trump owns these riots... and the Recession... and the Plague.

And all these so-called clients of yours, you are not able to give me one example of a person in my situation. You must not have many clients, and I'm sure there's a good reason for that.

I've had thousands... but the main difference between them and you, THEY actually took responsibility for their lives.

The President is helpless to do anything in these cities or states. The law and Constitution forbid it. If they want help, they need to make a formal request. Until they do, the President cannot do anything unless he initiates the insurrection act, which has many limitations.

This is the same bullshit reasoning Bush and his defenders used when all those dead bodies were floating down the Mississippi.. It didn't work then, it don't work now. Sorry, bud.

However it's simply a matter of the President reminding people that if the Nazi's takeover, their cities are an example of what the entire country will look like, and that will make every voter think.

Uh, guy, Trump IS the Nazi. He's the one who used to keep a copy of Mein Kampf on his bedstand.