We seem to have a lot of anti Cain sentiment on the board so lets put it to the test

[rightwinger]

Ah the what if argument.................

Well sir what if...........................

What if we elected Cain and instituted this horrendous 9-9-9 plan?

Can you name one bill of this magnitude that was ever implemented without going through changes to make it better?

Can't, can you?

So just stop with the rhetoric.

Oh yes...we have seen this before

The bill would most certainly go through changes as the well connected wealthy lobby to get their exemptions put back in. All in the name of helping the economy

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

What if we elected Cain and instituted this horrendous 9-9-9 plan?

Can you name one bill of this magnitude that was ever implemented without going through changes to make it better?

Can't, can you?

So just stop with the rhetoric.

Oh yes...we have seen this before

The bill would most certainly go through changes as the well connected wealthy lobby to get their exemptions put back in. All in the name of helping the economy

You and I both know that the level of involvement the public now displays in politics should prevent that. If what your saying were to happen it would be the end of the republican party. I don't think they are that stupid.

Maybe I'm to optimistic, but I don't think so.

 

[Rocko]

So by this logic we can stop calling people racists who simply oppose Obama because he is a democrat or they dissagree with his policies right?

Yea, I didnt think so............Hypocrite

The only people who claim that disagreeing with Obama makes you a racist are, ironically,h "Conservatives".

HUh? Jimmy Carter didn't say Obama the reason why Obama has so much opposition is he's a black man?

We weren't told opposition to the stimulus, ObamaCare, and the dream act was racist by democrats?? Off the top of my head, I can get source if need be.

 

[Full-Auto]

Currentr system

Family of 4 earning 50K using standard deductions would pay taxes on aproximately 24K, the tax on that is around 2.7K. They would also have a 7.65% payroll tax amounting to an additional aproximately 3.8K making thier entire tax bill around 6.5K after the child tax credits they would likely owe less than 4.5K This is with no other deductions and no other credits.

Under Cains 9-9-9 plan

pay 4.5K up front, and then they pay another 9% on what they spend, suppose they spend 20K on taxable items thats an additional 1.8K making thier total tax bill 6.3K a $1800 tax increase under 9-9-9 for a family of four earning 50K.

This plan sucks.

Ah the what if argument.................

Well sir what if...........................

What if we elected Cain and instituted this horrendous 9-9-9 plan?

My taxes go down and I have more? Ill try to live with that.

 

[BenNatuf]

Currentr system

Family of 4 earning 50K using standard deductions would pay taxes on aproximately 24K, the tax on that is around 2.7K. They would also have a 7.65% payroll tax amounting to an additional aproximately 3.8K making thier entire tax bill around 6.5K after the child tax credits they would likely owe less than 4.5K This is with no other deductions and no other credits.

Under Cains 9-9-9 plan

pay 4.5K up front, and then they pay another 9% on what they spend, suppose they spend 20K on taxable items thats an additional 1.8K making thier total tax bill 6.3K a $1800 tax increase under 9-9-9 for a family of four earning 50K.

This plan sucks.

Ah the what if argument.................

Well sir what if...........................

There is no what if, a family of four earning 50K including payroll taxes pays $4500 now. Under 9-9-9 they would pay the same $4500 in the flat tax and then be subject to a sales tax of 9% on what they spend. You don't start to break even under this plan until you nhit around 70K. The math is right there and if you have a problem with it I suggest you call Plethagerus or somebody.

Want to see more?

family of four earning 40K under current system

gets a $1900 refundable tax credit and pays 3100 in payroll taxes for a total tax bill of 1.2K

under 999

3.6K up front and if they spend 15K on taxable purchases another 1350 for a total tax bill of around 5K. A tax increase of $3800

how about moving to 65K?

Current system: Family of 4 earning 65K using standard deduction and getting only the child tax credit and additional child tax credit, total tax bill $2950 plus $4950 in payroll taxes for a total of aprox $7900

under 9-9-9

$5850 plus if they spend 25K on taxable items another $2250 for a total tax bill of $8100.

A tax increase of $200 and these numbers only use standard deduction and minimum credits.

and I haven't even touched on the fact that for small business' this will be an even worse tax increase since COL is not deductable from revenue under the plan. (unless your geographically blessed)

Most small business opperate on about a 10% net and have 60% of their revenue tied up in COL. Take your average small business with 1M in revenue, today they are taxed as individuals on the profit, at 10% thats 100K. and about 11000 in personal income tax plus anoth 7600 in SE taxes thier total bill is around $18600. Add to that the payroll taxes the business pays of around 45K and the total tax bill is around 63.4K

Now subject them to the business flat tax without a deduction for COL and the business gets taxed on 700K for a tax bill of 63K. But thats not the end of it, because now you have to take the 140K profit and convert to personal income for thier personal taxes (under Cain's plan business is business and personal is personal, there is no tax treatment like we have now with sub s and llc's). Why is it 145K instead of the 100K it was before? Because they aren't paying the payroll taxes at the business anymore. so they pay another $13050 in personal income taxes and then get hit with 9% on waht they spend, say it 25K, thats another 2250 bringing thier total tax bill to around 78.2K a tax increase of 15.2K

The plan sucks.

 

[BenNatuf]

Ah the what if argument.................

Well sir what if...........................

What if we elected Cain and instituted this horrendous 9-9-9 plan?

Can you name one bill of this magnitude that was ever implemented without going through changes to make it better?

Can't, can you?

So just stop with the rhetoric.

so we're supposed to vote for Cain because he's proposing change and hope the congress improves it?

Sorry pal, thats a little to hopey changey for me. I mean, it worked so well the last time!

When was the last time the congress improved anything? I can tell you when, when Newt was running it.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

What if we elected Cain and instituted this horrendous 9-9-9 plan?

Can you name one bill of this magnitude that was ever implemented without going through changes to make it better?

Can't, can you?

So just stop with the rhetoric.

so we're supposed to vote for Cain because he's proposing change and hope the congress improves it?

Sorry pal, thats a little to hopey changey for me. I mean, it worked so well the last time!

When was the last time the congress improved anything? I can tell you when, when Newt was running it.

Cain is trying to sell actual changes. Obama sold himself. Big difference.

 

[Queen]

Wow. I guess the extreme right just goes on political discussion boards more than the moderate, centrist types in America. . .

 

[Queen]

Cain's 9 9 9 plan will put small businesses out of business. If businesses can't deduct their payroll, they'll shrivel up and die.

 

[BenNatuf]

Can you name one bill of this magnitude that was ever implemented without going through changes to make it better?

Can't, can you?

So just stop with the rhetoric.

so we're supposed to vote for Cain because he's proposing change and hope the congress improves it?

Sorry pal, thats a little to hopey changey for me. I mean, it worked so well the last time!

When was the last time the congress improved anything? I can tell you when, when Newt was running it.

Cain is trying to sell actual changes. Obama sold himself. Big difference.

Obama sold actual changes too, and they weren't good either. Makes no difference, the 9-9-9 plan sucks, and it sucks bad. It will result in a tax increase for about 65% of the population and a tax increase for most small byusiness' It is nice for people making over 100K and business' that net more than around 250K (about 2.5M in revenue) so long as thier COL is low and they only buy American. It's really great if you happen to be a behemoth of a corporation (unless you're wal mart and all your products are imports).

Dude, this plan sucks.

 

[percysunshine]

Simple, If Cain wins the nomination will you vote for him or Obama?

What makes you so sure Obama is going to get the Democrat nomination?

 

[rightwinger]

Ah the what if argument.................

Well sir what if...........................

What if we elected Cain and instituted this horrendous 9-9-9 plan?

My taxes go down and I have more? Ill try to live with that.

My taxes would go down too

But I realize that it would be at the expense of those who can least afford it

 

[Liability]

What if we elected Cain and instituted this horrendous 9-9-9 plan?

My taxes go down and I have more? Ill try to live with that.

My taxes would go down too

But I realize that it would be at the expense of those who can least afford it

Make a couple of charitable donations.

Encourage your friends who are similarly situated to do the same.

 

[percysunshine]

My taxes go down and I have more? Ill try to live with that.

My taxes would go down too

But I realize that it would be at the expense of those who can least afford it

Make a couple of charitable donations.

Encourage your friends who are similarly situated to do the same.

You are missing the point. Spending other peoples money is so much more fun than spending ones own.

 

[Liability]

My taxes would go down too

But I realize that it would be at the expense of those who can least afford it

Make a couple of charitable donations.

Encourage your friends who are similarly situated to do the same.

You are missing the point. Spending other peoples money is so much more fun than spending ones own.

Compelling them to "give" and THEN spending other people's money is the liberal wet dream.

 

[rightwinger]

My taxes go down and I have more? Ill try to live with that.

My taxes would go down too

But I realize that it would be at the expense of those who can least afford it

Make a couple of charitable donations.

Encourage your friends who are similarly situated to do the same.

Better yet...how about I trickle down some..........Jobs

 

[rightwinger]

My taxes would go down too

But I realize that it would be at the expense of those who can least afford it

Make a couple of charitable donations.

Encourage your friends who are similarly situated to do the same.

You are missing the point. Spending other peoples money is so much more fun than spending ones own.

Absolutely....especially when you take it from the poorest Americans

 

[percysunshine]

My taxes would go down too

But I realize that it would be at the expense of those who can least afford it

Make a couple of charitable donations.

Encourage your friends who are similarly situated to do the same.

Better yet...how about I trickle down some..........Jobs

Home run ball floating down the middle...don't make this too easy. Put a little effort in.

 

[Liability]

My taxes would go down too

But I realize that it would be at the expense of those who can least afford it

Make a couple of charitable donations.

Encourage your friends who are similarly situated to do the same.

Better yet...how about I trickle down some..........Jobs

Or, like the President, you can ignore the fundamental problem (spending way the fuck too much money) and pretend that the government can "create" jobs at all; then use vast amounts MORE money (don't worry, that which we do not actually have we will "borrow" from our great great grand children's great great grand children) to "create" the jobs we really can't create!

Coherent Americans: "We have a massive debt problem! What ever shall we DO, Mr. President?"

President Obama: "SPEND MORE MONEY! Borrow more money and print more money and then SPEND more and more money. That should work!"

 

[Full-Auto]

What if we elected Cain and instituted this horrendous 9-9-9 plan?

My taxes go down and I have more? Ill try to live with that.

My taxes would go down too

But I realize that it would be at the expense of those who can least afford it

I just am having a hard time buying into that for two reasons.

One, As a current family of 5 (raising grandchildren ) I qualify for federal assistance if my income is 4362.00 or less.

Thats is ridiculous and I dont care where you live.

Two, Congress will never let anything happen to those truly needy? It is damn time those above the official poverty line start paying taxes.