CDZ We only need one gun law

[MrShangles]

We already have thousands of gun laws, at the Federal, State, and local level. Murder, armed robbery, etc, are already illegal. We only need one more gun law...

Anyone found guilty of any violent crime with a gun...Gets hanged by the neck until dead.

The punishment doesn't fit the crime. Lynching is ok for someone convicted of murder, though.

This is the problem, I thought y’all wanted to fix the problem, stop being scared to punish someone harshly, we wouldn’t have to punish many and they might get the point.


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[JoeB131]

This is the problem, I thought y’all wanted to fix the problem, stop being scared to punish someone harshly, we wouldn’t have to punish many and they might get the point.

We lock up 2 million people and we are one of the last countries to still have a death penalty.

If punishment deterred crime, we'd have the lowest crime rates in the industrialized world, not the highest.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Again we lock up more people for nonviolent crimes an drug offenses than anyone.
I don't know how many times I have to tell you that it would be a simple thing to have nonviolent offenders serve alternate sentences so that prison space can be reserved to violent pieces of shit

Wrong again.

Releasing Drug Offenders Won’t End Mass Incarceration

According to the Bureau of Prisons, there are 207,847 people incarcerated in federal prisons. Roughly half (48.6 percent) are in for drug offenses. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there are 1,358,875 people in state prisons. Of them, 16 percent have a drug crime as their most serious offense. There were also 744,600 inmates in county and city jails. (The BOP data is current as of July 16. From BJS, the latest jail statistics are from midyear 2014, and the latest prison statistics from year-end 2013.) That’s an incarceration rate of about 725 people per 100,000 population.

Suppose every federal drug offender were released today. That would cut the incarceration rate to about 693 inmates per 100,000 population. Suppose further that every drug offender in a state prison were also released. That would get the rate down to 625. It’s a significant drop, no question — these hypothetical measures would shrink the overall prison population by about 14 percent.

So reducing the number of federal prisoners by HALF won't reduce the federal prison population?
Reducing the number of state prisoners by 16% won't reduce the state prison population?

And you conveniently ignore the part where I said NONVIOLENT offenders and you concentrate solely on drug offenders

And all that leaves more room to put violent pieces of shit in jail for a long time

 

[Scamp]

How much does it cost to keep a violent gun crime offender in jail for 1 year?
Hanging is pretty much just the cost of the rope.

 

[Scamp]

This is the problem, I thought y’all wanted to fix the problem, stop being scared to punish someone harshly, we wouldn’t have to punish many and they might get the point.

We lock up 2 million people and we are one of the last countries to still have a death penalty.

If punishment deterred crime, we'd have the lowest crime rates in the industrialized world, not the highest.

Prison is not really punishment to some violent criminals. Food, entertainment, sex. Etc. Death is punishment that definitely deters crime.

 

[JGalt]

We already have thousands of gun laws, at the Federal, State, and local level. Murder, armed robbery, etc, are already illegal. We only need one more gun law...

Anyone found guilty of any violent crime with a gun...Gets hanged by the neck until dead.

The punishment doesn't fit the crime. Lynching is ok for someone convicted of murder, though.

Murder and violent rape should be capitol hanging offenses. Complete with a speedy public hanging after the trial.

Well murder deserves a good lynching. But the violent rapist is going to get a lifetime of violent rape in prison anyway.

 

[JoeB131]

So reducing the number of federal prisoners by HALF won't reduce the federal prison population?
Reducing the number of state prisoners by 16% won't reduce the state prison population?

Not enough to make a difference. We lock up too many people already.

And we have the worst crime stats in the world.

 

[JoeB131]

How much does it cost to keep a violent gun crime offender in jail for 1 year?
Hanging is pretty much just the cost of the rope.

Yeah, here's the thing. My state had to stop executing people because they were exonerating more people than they were executing. That's how broken that system was.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So reducing the number of federal prisoners by HALF won't reduce the federal prison population?
Reducing the number of state prisoners by 16% won't reduce the state prison population?

Not enough to make a difference. We lock up too many people already.

And we have the worst crime stats in the world.

Love how you avoid questions

So I'll ask again,

Why did you only use drug sentences and not all NONVIOLENT sentences ?

 

[JoeB131]

Love how you avoid questions

So I'll ask again,

Why did you only use drug sentences and not all NONVIOLENT sentences ?

Because we really don't lock up that many people for non-violent offenses that don't involve drugs.

and if you don't have at least some criminal penalties, people will be committing all sorts of non-violent offenses. What would deter them?

So, um, no, we need serious criminal justice reform, but locking up Group A because they offend you mo re than Group B isn't the answer.

 

[miketx]

We already have thousands of gun laws, at the Federal, State, and local level. Murder, armed robbery, etc, are already illegal. We only need one more gun law...

Anyone found guilty of any violent crime with a gun...Gets hanged by the neck until dead.

The punishment doesn't fit the crime. Lynching is ok for someone convicted of murder, though.

Murder and violent rape should be capitol hanging offenses. Complete with a speedy public hanging after the trial.

Well murder deserves a good lynching. But the violent rapist is going to get a lifetime of violent rape in prison anyway.

In my experience the prisons are set up to protect these rapists. Seen it first hand.

 

[Marion Morrison]

We already have thousands of gun laws, at the Federal, State, and local level. Murder, armed robbery, etc, are already illegal. We only need one more gun law...

Anyone found guilty of any violent crime with a gun...Gets hanged by the neck until dead.

The punishment doesn't fit the crime. Lynching is ok for someone convicted of murder, though.

Murder and violent rape should be capitol hanging offenses. Complete with a speedy public hanging after the trial.

Well murder deserves a good lynching. But the violent rapist is going to get a lifetime of violent rape in prison anyway.

In my experience the prisons are set up to protect these rapists. Seen it first hand.

Yeah, because in general pop, they'd get killed. This one rapist went up to prison and came back in a wheelchair. Eh, whatcha gonna do?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Love how you avoid questions

So I'll ask again,

Why did you only use drug sentences and not all NONVIOLENT sentences ?

Because we really don't lock up that many people for non-violent offenses that don't involve drugs.

and if you don't have at least some criminal penalties, people will be committing all sorts of non-violent offenses. What would deter them?

So, um, no, we need serious criminal justice reform, but locking up Group A because they offend you mo re than Group B isn't the answer.

In state prisons just as many people are in jail for property crimes as drug offenses so it seems we do lock up nonviolent criminals that aren't involved in drug crimes add public order crimes to that and you'll see that nonviolent offenders with no drug charges outnumber those with drug charges


Mass Incarceration: The Whole Pie 2017

 

[JoeB131]

In state prisons just as many people are in jail for property crimes as drug offenses so it seems we do lock up nonviolent criminals that aren't involved in drug crimes add public order crimes to that and you'll see that nonviolent offenders with no drug charges outnumber those with drug charges

You can slice up the pie any way you want. but the fact is, you want to throw a person of color in prison for waiving a gun around so you can let a white collar criminal who bilked pensioners out of their savings go, that's kind of messed up.

 

[usmbguest5318]

We already have thousands of gun laws, at the Federal, State, and local level. Murder, armed robbery, etc, are already illegal. We only need one more gun law...

Anyone found guilty of any violent crime with a gun...Gets hanged by the neck until dead.

While I wholeheartedly empathize with the sentiment of your proposals, I cannot abide the sentence you propose. I am okay with there being harsher, notably more so, consequences for one's abetting one's criminal acts with a gun.

We should include car jackers also...

Did the OP-er's proposal preclude any specific criminal act? It seems to me the substance of the proposal is that the commission of any criminal act whereby one in some capacity commits it using a gun results, if one be found guilty, in the sentence s/he noted. I inferred that could include, rape, murder, theft, embezzlement, animal abuse, environmental crimes, vandalism, avoiding arrest, etc...."it's" a crime, one performs "it" while in possession of a gun, hanging be the penalty.

 

[Scamp]

We already have thousands of gun laws, at the Federal, State, and local level. Murder, armed robbery, etc, are already illegal. We only need one more gun law...

Anyone found guilty of any violent crime with a gun...Gets hanged by the neck until dead.

While I wholeheartedly empathize with the sentiment of your proposals, I cannot abide the sentence you propose. I am okay with there being harsher, notably more so, consequences for one's abetting one's criminal acts with a gun.

We should include car jackers also...

Did the OP-er's proposal preclude any specific criminal act? It seems to me the substance of the proposal is that the commission of any criminal act whereby one in some capacity commits it using a gun results, if one be found guilty, in the sentence s/he noted. I inferred that could include, rape, murder, theft, embezzlement, animal abuse, environmental crimes, vandalism, avoiding arrest, etc...."it's" a crime, one performs "it" while in possession of a gun, hanging be the penalty.

I said "violent crime".

Far too much recidivism with violent criminals. Hanging them would absolutely stop this. Why would anyone want to let them out to commit more violent crime?

 

[usmbguest5318]

We already have thousands of gun laws, at the Federal, State, and local level. Murder, armed robbery, etc, are already illegal. We only need one more gun law...

Anyone found guilty of any violent crime with a gun...Gets hanged by the neck until dead.

While I wholeheartedly empathize with the sentiment of your proposals, I cannot abide the sentence you propose. I am okay with there being harsher, notably more so, consequences for one's abetting one's criminal acts with a gun.

We should include car jackers also...

Did the OP-er's proposal preclude any specific criminal act? It seems to me the substance of the proposal is that the commission of any criminal act whereby one in some capacity commits it using a gun results, if one be found guilty, in the sentence s/he noted. I inferred that could include, rape, murder, theft, embezzlement, animal abuse, environmental crimes, vandalism, avoiding arrest, etc...."it's" a crime, one performs "it" while in possession of a gun, hanging be the penalty.

I said "violent crime".

Far too much recidivism with violent criminals. Hanging them would absolutely stop this. Why would anyone want to let them out to commit more violent crime?

I said "violent crime".

Indeed, you did, and I considered that, along with the unspecificity and brevity of your OP (i.e, no complimentary link to a precise definition of "violent crime," and no specific enumeration of what you deem to be violent crimes) in composing my responses in this thread.

Violence has a range of manifestations -- from verbal violence such as yelling to physical violence such as battery or worse -- all of which are nonetheless violent. According to the FBI's site, along with being specifically the crimes of "murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault," violent crime is described broadly as well: "Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force." That broader definition is what I had in mind, and I did because you didn't opt to constrain the scope of your proposal to anything less broad.

Given the existence of both a specific enumeration and a broader definition, a wide variety of acts that might otherwise not be violent can be performed violently.

 

[Scamp]

Murderers, rapists, and robbers have been released from jail, only to murder, rape, and rob again.
Prisoners who have been put to death, have never committed another crime.

 

[JoeB131]

Murderers, rapists, and robbers have been released from jail, only to murder, rape, and rob again.
Prisoners who have been put to death, have never committed another crime.

Okay...

Here's the thing. What about the guy who gets put to death for the crime he didn't commit?

In Illinois, we had to end the death penalty because we ended up exonerating more death row inmates than we executed.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Murderers, rapists, and robbers have been released from jail, only to murder, rape, and rob again.
Prisoners who have been put to death, have never committed another crime.

Okay...

Here's the thing. What about the guy who gets put to death for the crime he didn't commit?

In Illinois, we had to end the death penalty because we ended up exonerating more death row inmates than we executed.

What about the guy who gets put to death for the crime he didn't commit?

That is precisely the thought that led me to respond to the proposal as I did.

It's my belief that bias of myriad sorts -- sexual, racial, law enforcement, gender, etc. -- are too abundant even today for me to feel comfortable that jury's decisions are made overwhelmingly as a result of thoroughly rational consideration of the facts presented at trial. Therefore I'm not at all keen to condone a policy whereby we increase the risk that we execute people who are in fact not guilty of committing a capital crime of which a jury yet found them guilty. I'm not nuts about the risk of wrongfully incarcerating folks, but at least in such instances, there's an opportunity to right the wrong of having done so.