We must eliminate hate crime laws

[P@triot]

We should ALL be against the government reading our thoughts.

Right? You would think that would be a universal concept that we would all agree on. I can guarantee you that you wouldn't have found a single liberal from the Kennedy-era that would disagree on that. It really illustrates just how radicalized the left has become.

 

[anotherlife]

How can you eliminate hate? Hate is centrally important. But yes, you can eliminate it. Like that old commercial shows about the TV parental control option sales point. This is how it goes.

The mother tells the Sopranos and his maffiosies that they are banned on her child's TV. Then Toni(?) Soprano answers, okay I understand and I am making this up to you, look here is Vinny's watch, it's yours.

There is no modern politics without hate, and there is no nation state and no national democracy without hate.

 

[ChrisL]

How can you eliminate hate? Hate is centrally important. But yes, you can eliminate it. Like that old commercial shows about the TV parental control option sales point. This is how it goes.

The mother tells the Sopranos and his maffiosies that they are banned on her child's TV. Then Toni(?) Soprano answers, okay I understand and I am making this up to you, look here is Vinny's watch, it's yours.

There is no modern politics without hate, and there is no nation state and no national democracy without hate.

Liberals want to control your thoughts, that's why.

 

[occupied]

So if a rapist targets black women, is that worse than one who targets white women?

If they could somehow prove they were part of some racist agenda then they could be prosecuted as a hate crime. The law does not really deal in questions of what is worse, just what can be proven in court and sentenced under existing legal guidelines.

 

[ChrisL]

So if a rapist targets black women, is that worse than one who targets white women?

If they could somehow prove they were part of some racist agenda then they could be prosecuted as a hate crime. The law does not really deal in questions of what is worse, just what can be proven in court and sentenced under existing legal guidelines.

So, if someone rapes anyone for any reason, they are charged with a crime. There is no need for hate crimes. Raping a woman because she is black is not any worse than raping a woman because she happens to be in the vicinity.

 

[anotherlife]

Hate crime laws were ruled constitutional.

They were ruled constitutional in a case of BLACK on WHITE crime.

That doesn't make it okay. We have laws to punish crimes. We don't need "hate crime laws."

We need them now more than ever since religious/political/racial motivated assaults are way up. Going out to lure a (insert appropriate racial/gender/religous group) person into a beatdown or vandalizing a place of worship or political office are not simple everyday crimes and have the potential to spark civil strife or revenge crimes so they deserve harsher sentences. No one objects to any of the other kinds of laws that lengthen sentences for various circumstances surrounding the crime so why just this?

That's an absurd position to hold all the way around. For starters, we already have laws to prevent those crimes. If those existing laws won't prevent the crimes, this certainly won't either.

Second, and much more importantly again, there is absolutely no way for the state to know what the person was thinking when they committed that crime. It's beyond irrational and unconstitutional.

It's every bit as constitutional as theft<burglary<burglary of an occupied dwelling<burglary in possession of a firearm. Prosecutors consider motive in every crime they try. In most cases motive is an easy thing to ascertain. If some dumbass vandalizes a church or mosque it's more than simple mischief, if some nazi beats a random black, gay or Muslim person the motive is self evident. You act like this is a big thing when in actuality the bar is set pretty high to prove the hate crime enhancement in court and actual convictions are rare.

Vandalism is vandalism. It's not the motive that is important but the action.

The action is important, yes, but the motive is important too, I guess. I observed, that some people hate others because they are tired, for example a mother hates her child when she is tired, but after she has had a rest, then she doesn't hate her child any more. Mothers have been known to kill their children occasionally like this. Hate is very interesting.

 

[ChrisL]

That doesn't make it okay. We have laws to punish crimes. We don't need "hate crime laws."

We need them now more than ever since religious/political/racial motivated assaults are way up. Going out to lure a (insert appropriate racial/gender/religous group) person into a beatdown or vandalizing a place of worship or political office are not simple everyday crimes and have the potential to spark civil strife or revenge crimes so they deserve harsher sentences. No one objects to any of the other kinds of laws that lengthen sentences for various circumstances surrounding the crime so why just this?

That's an absurd position to hold all the way around. For starters, we already have laws to prevent those crimes. If those existing laws won't prevent the crimes, this certainly won't either.

Second, and much more importantly again, there is absolutely no way for the state to know what the person was thinking when they committed that crime. It's beyond irrational and unconstitutional.

It's every bit as constitutional as theft<burglary<burglary of an occupied dwelling<burglary in possession of a firearm. Prosecutors consider motive in every crime they try. In most cases motive is an easy thing to ascertain. If some dumbass vandalizes a church or mosque it's more than simple mischief, if some nazi beats a random black, gay or Muslim person the motive is self evident. You act like this is a big thing when in actuality the bar is set pretty high to prove the hate crime enhancement in court and actual convictions are rare.

Vandalism is vandalism. It's not the motive that is important but the action.

The action is important, yes, but the motive is important too, I guess. I observed, that some people hate others because they are tired, for example a mother hates her child when she is tired, but after she has had a rest, then she doesn't hate her child any more. Mothers have been known to kill their children occasionally like this. Hate is very interesting.

Good mothers never "hate" their own children. Tired or not.

 

[anotherlife]

How can you eliminate hate? Hate is centrally important. But yes, you can eliminate it. Like that old commercial shows about the TV parental control option sales point. This is how it goes.

The mother tells the Sopranos and his maffiosies that they are banned on her child's TV. Then Toni(?) Soprano answers, okay I understand and I am making this up to you, look here is Vinny's watch, it's yours.

There is no modern politics without hate, and there is no nation state and no national democracy without hate.

Liberals want to control your thoughts, that's why.

And very successfully at that, totaling ~ 300 million people in mostly Slavonic countries in Europe.

 

[anotherlife]

We need them now more than ever since religious/political/racial motivated assaults are way up. Going out to lure a (insert appropriate racial/gender/religous group) person into a beatdown or vandalizing a place of worship or political office are not simple everyday crimes and have the potential to spark civil strife or revenge crimes so they deserve harsher sentences. No one objects to any of the other kinds of laws that lengthen sentences for various circumstances surrounding the crime so why just this?

That's an absurd position to hold all the way around. For starters, we already have laws to prevent those crimes. If those existing laws won't prevent the crimes, this certainly won't either.

Second, and much more importantly again, there is absolutely no way for the state to know what the person was thinking when they committed that crime. It's beyond irrational and unconstitutional.

It's every bit as constitutional as theft<burglary<burglary of an occupied dwelling<burglary in possession of a firearm. Prosecutors consider motive in every crime they try. In most cases motive is an easy thing to ascertain. If some dumbass vandalizes a church or mosque it's more than simple mischief, if some nazi beats a random black, gay or Muslim person the motive is self evident. You act like this is a big thing when in actuality the bar is set pretty high to prove the hate crime enhancement in court and actual convictions are rare.

Vandalism is vandalism. It's not the motive that is important but the action.

The action is important, yes, but the motive is important too, I guess. I observed, that some people hate others because they are tired, for example a mother hates her child when she is tired, but after she has had a rest, then she doesn't hate her child any more. Mothers have been known to kill their children occasionally like this. Hate is very interesting.

Good mothers never "hate" their own children. Tired or not.

Why are you saying that? I bet that you like everyone else hated your job for no other reason that you were too tired that day. Then the next day you didn't. Same thing.

 

[whitehall]

Everyone knows that there are areas in this great Country that a white person dares not enter or risk being assaulted, robbed or murdered. Hollywood even makes mostly comedy movies about it. If a white kid is found dead in a neighborhood dominated by black thugs the first thing the investigative officers ask is "what was he doing there". It doesn't work if a black kid is found dead in a white neighborhood.

 

[ChrisL]

That's an absurd position to hold all the way around. For starters, we already have laws to prevent those crimes. If those existing laws won't prevent the crimes, this certainly won't either.

Second, and much more importantly again, there is absolutely no way for the state to know what the person was thinking when they committed that crime. It's beyond irrational and unconstitutional.

It's every bit as constitutional as theft<burglary<burglary of an occupied dwelling<burglary in possession of a firearm. Prosecutors consider motive in every crime they try. In most cases motive is an easy thing to ascertain. If some dumbass vandalizes a church or mosque it's more than simple mischief, if some nazi beats a random black, gay or Muslim person the motive is self evident. You act like this is a big thing when in actuality the bar is set pretty high to prove the hate crime enhancement in court and actual convictions are rare.

Vandalism is vandalism. It's not the motive that is important but the action.

The action is important, yes, but the motive is important too, I guess. I observed, that some people hate others because they are tired, for example a mother hates her child when she is tired, but after she has had a rest, then she doesn't hate her child any more. Mothers have been known to kill their children occasionally like this. Hate is very interesting.

Good mothers never "hate" their own children. Tired or not.

Why are you saying that? I bet that you like everyone else hated your job for no other reason that you were too tired that day. Then the next day you didn't. Same thing.

It is not the same thing at all. Obviously you don't have any children. I love my child unconditionally.

 

[anotherlife]

It's every bit as constitutional as theft<burglary<burglary of an occupied dwelling<burglary in possession of a firearm. Prosecutors consider motive in every crime they try. In most cases motive is an easy thing to ascertain. If some dumbass vandalizes a church or mosque it's more than simple mischief, if some nazi beats a random black, gay or Muslim person the motive is self evident. You act like this is a big thing when in actuality the bar is set pretty high to prove the hate crime enhancement in court and actual convictions are rare.

Vandalism is vandalism. It's not the motive that is important but the action.

The action is important, yes, but the motive is important too, I guess. I observed, that some people hate others because they are tired, for example a mother hates her child when she is tired, but after she has had a rest, then she doesn't hate her child any more. Mothers have been known to kill their children occasionally like this. Hate is very interesting.

Good mothers never "hate" their own children. Tired or not.

Why are you saying that? I bet that you like everyone else hated your job for no other reason that you were too tired that day. Then the next day you didn't. Same thing.

It is not the same thing at all. Obviously you don't have any children. I love my child unconditionally.

Whose child do you have? Children can hate their mothers too, as they often say it too. Isn't hate a result of desire? The desire for greed, or for self defense, or for rest?

 

[P@triot]

So if a rapist targets black women, is that worse than one who targets white women?

If they could somehow prove they were part of some racist agenda then they could be prosecuted as a hate crime. The law does not really deal in questions of what is worse, just what can be proven in court and sentenced under existing legal guidelines.

You don't realize how you're contradicting yourself? It is literally impossible to prove that someone had hate in their mind and that was the motivating factor (unless, of course, one admits it).

Furthermore, you still haven't explained how it's ok in the context of our double-jeopardy laws. Hate Crimes causes a person to be charged twice for the exact same crime.

 

[ChrisL]

Vandalism is vandalism. It's not the motive that is important but the action.

The action is important, yes, but the motive is important too, I guess. I observed, that some people hate others because they are tired, for example a mother hates her child when she is tired, but after she has had a rest, then she doesn't hate her child any more. Mothers have been known to kill their children occasionally like this. Hate is very interesting.

Good mothers never "hate" their own children. Tired or not.

Why are you saying that? I bet that you like everyone else hated your job for no other reason that you were too tired that day. Then the next day you didn't. Same thing.

It is not the same thing at all. Obviously you don't have any children. I love my child unconditionally.

Whose child do you have? Children can hate their mothers too, as they often say it too. Isn't hate a result of desire? The desire for greed, or for self defense, or for rest?

What are you talking about? You are getting off topic.

 

[P@triot]

Good mothers never "hate" their own children. Tired or not.

Why are you saying that?

Because it is true.

 

[P@triot]

Children can hate their mothers too, as they often say it too. Isn't hate a result of desire? The desire for greed, or for self defense, or for rest?

Exactly! And should they be charged with a crime for that?!?

 

[ChrisL]

A crime is a crime. I don't see how committing a crime with "hate" in mind is any worse than any other motive. They are all equally wrong and bad.

 

[P@triot]

The action is important, yes, but the motive is important too, I guess. I observed, that some people hate others because they are tired, for example a mother hates her child when she is tired, but after she has had a rest, then she doesn't hate her child any more. Mothers have been known to kill their children occasionally like this. Hate is very interesting.

Good mothers never "hate" their own children. Tired or not.

Why are you saying that? I bet that you like everyone else hated your job for no other reason that you were too tired that day. Then the next day you didn't. Same thing.

It is not the same thing at all. Obviously you don't have any children. I love my child unconditionally.

Whose child do you have? Children can hate their mothers too, as they often say it too. Isn't hate a result of desire? The desire for greed, or for self defense, or for rest?

What are you talking about? You are getting off topic.

I think anotherlife is a little stoned out of her mind right now. She's rambling incoherently.

 

[anotherlife]

The action is important, yes, but the motive is important too, I guess. I observed, that some people hate others because they are tired, for example a mother hates her child when she is tired, but after she has had a rest, then she doesn't hate her child any more. Mothers have been known to kill their children occasionally like this. Hate is very interesting.

Good mothers never "hate" their own children. Tired or not.

Why are you saying that? I bet that you like everyone else hated your job for no other reason that you were too tired that day. Then the next day you didn't. Same thing.

It is not the same thing at all. Obviously you don't have any children. I love my child unconditionally.

Whose child do you have? Children can hate their mothers too, as they often say it too. Isn't hate a result of desire? The desire for greed, or for self defense, or for rest?

What are you talking about? You are getting off topic.

The thread is about how to eliminate hate, I think. For this reason I wonder here about the reasons for hate. In any ways shooting whoever you hate is effective in eliminating hate, because you forget him after. What would you do to eliminate hate?

 

[occupied]

If someone assaulted me because they hated me, there would be no "hate crime." It would just be assault, and that is all it should be.

If someone just walked up and assaulted you because you were protesting something they liked it could very well be ruled a hate crime because of the political motivation and the randomness of crime. Not the same as if someone who knew you personally thought you needed a beatdown for some personal reason.

Why is it any worse? Explain.

In the hypothetical case I mentioned it would be similar to the "knockout game" that was all the rage a few years ago. Many of those people were charged with hate crimes because it was proven they picked some random white person because they were white and sucker punched them. They charged them with the greater crime because of the potential for copycats and an example had to be made. Just getting in a scuffle with your neighbor over something like his loud music or dog shitting on your lawn is simple assault, attack him simply because of what he is then we have a hate crime.