We Have the Right to Assemble and Freedom of Religion - Unlawful Arrest of Preacher

[OldLady]

You all think this is cute to limit Christians' rights to assemble now, but realize when the immune suppressed get together in the next regular flu season, when 60K people die anyway, and say ALL big gathering should be limited because they spread germs, you have less and less of a leg to stand on.

I mean I know these things like individual rights and freedoms are sooooo 18th century. But you might want to free your mind a little bit.

You're giving Christians a bad name right now, Sue. All big gatherings ARE limited right now because they spread germs. It's not just Christians.

Oh shaming. A "bad name". Heaven forfend

Are gatherings of more than ten people verboten or not? Concerts, sporting events, conventions? How is that "targeting" Christians? You might not have seen this post several pages back; there are alternative ways to worship right now. No one wants to stop you.
If I were a pastor, I wouldn't hold services in the church and put my parishoners at risk. I realize it's hard on people; if people ever needed their religion, it's now. But there are other ways: Some congregations are doing "drive in's" and others are doing services, readings, etc. on line. You can do Mass (well, you don't get the wafer) on EWTN. There are sermons on tv every Sunday where I live.

It's a First Amendment protected right. Sorry you don't like that people in this nation have rights. Actually I'm not really sorry; your opinion on the matter makes no difference to me whatsoever.

Okay. No one is taking away your right to practice your religion. "Assembling" right now in large numbers is a serious health risk to the community if not to you personally. It is temporary and there are alternatives. The numbers of people infected and spreading this puppy are the only argument I need.

My church is meeting virtually and not in person, and the elders are checking up on folks by phone. We will do a zoom prayer meeting soon. But if people want to meet in person they absolutely have that right, and I think this road we're going down of monitoring each other's every Constitutionally protected right because I'm Going To Die is really, really dangerous. Just behind the virus in danger, actually.

Glad to hear you're keeping safe.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

And nobody is denying you this right. There is no requirement in the Bible for you to gather in large numbers twice on Sunday and once on Wednesday. You can worship your God from your house, in fact this is how the very first Christians did it.

It's cute that Godless atheists who hate Christianity think that they are somehow entitled to any credibility in lecturing us on what our religion does or does not require of us.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

That doesn't keep Impeached Trump as president past January 20, 2021, when the Constitution says his term expires.

The outcome of the next election will keep him there for four years beyond then.

 

[irosie91]

And nobody is denying you this right. There is no requirement in the Bible for you to gather in large numbers twice on Sunday and once on Wednesday. You can worship your God from your house, in fact this is how the very first Christians did it.

It's cute that Godless atheists who hate Christianity think that they are somehow entitled to any credibility in lecturing us on what our religion does or does not require of us.

ok-----does your religion require large assemblies?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And nobody is denying you this right. There is no requirement in the Bible for you to gather in large numbers twice on Sunday and once on Wednesday. You can worship your God from your house, in fact this is how the very first Christians did it.

It's cute that Godless atheists who hate Christianity think that they are somehow entitled to any credibility in lecturing us on what our religion does or does not require of us.

I am neither godless nor an atheist, and I have no hate of Christianity. I grew up in Christianity, I was baptized when I was in the 4th grade. I was an active member of a Christian church for 45 plus years including being a lay leader in multiple churches in many states and even two countries. I got my Bachelors from a well known Christian university and minored in Biblical History.

There is little doubt my knowledge and experience is far greater than yours

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The right of assembly for the redress of grievances has what to do with attending religious services?

That's not what the First Amendment says. You're conflating two separate rights, into one—the right to peaceably assemble, and the right to petition government for the redress of grievances. These are two separate rights, neither tied to the other.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

ok-----does your religion require large assemblies?

Mine normally, does, but has made temporary modifications to cope with the current hysteria. But my religion is only one, out of tens of thousands.

Just because my religion can be practiced without some component doesn't justify denying other religions that component, if they consider it more essential.

 

[OldLady]

Any powers not enumerated therein belong to the states. That is what is happening; the governors of the states are exercising their Emergency Powers that were crafted into legislation at some point by their duly appointed representatives of the people. I don't know about anywhere else, but in Maine those Powers are limited to 90 days. To extend it requires the approval of the legislature by the 80th day.

Under the Fourteenth Amendment, as applied by the Supreme Court in various landmark rulings, the entire First Amendment is now incorporated under the Fourteenth, and all the rights enumerated therein protected even from the states.

In particular, freedom of religion is thus incorporated under Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 (1940), and freedom of assembly under DeJonge v. Oregon, 299 U.S. 353 (1937).

So no, the states do not now have the legitimate power to violate either of these rights, nor any of the other rights asserted in the First Amendment.

In fact, there are only a very few of the rights, out of the many affirmed throughout the Bill of Rights, that are not now incorporated under the Fourteenth Amendment.

Every right has its limitations. There is freedom of speech yet it is not without limits. Nobody whines about not being allowed to yell fire in a crowded room or not being allowed to joke about having a bomb while on a plane.

We have the right to owns arms, yet even the most ardent do not whine about not being able to own nuclear weapons or chemical weapons.

Nobody is being denied the right to worship their deity, all that is limited is the manner...which was already in place. One could not kill someone and claim freedom of religion, one could not rape someone and claim it is part of your religion.

When I was in school, it was pounded into my brain that "With Rights Come Responsibilities." We have a certain responsibility to the entire community, whether it is our town or our country. This is one of those times.

 

[Faun]

I hope the hell he does.
I'll bring the popcorn.

I'd love to go to the Supreme Court to see Kavanaugh and the rest of the conservatives back the pastor.

Why on Earth do you convince yourself the Supreme Court would back the pastor given the Supreme Court has already ruled that Constitutional rights do not supersede public safety?

Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919)

Primary Holding
If speech is intended to result in a crime, and there is a clear and present danger that it actually will result in a crime, the First Amendment does not protect the speaker from government action.

Opinion
Articulating the clear and present danger test, Holmes voiced the opinion of a unanimous Court in sustaining the convictions. Holmes felt that courts owed greater deference to the government during wartime, even when constitutional rights were at stake. He held that the First Amendment does not protect speech that comes close to creating a clear and present danger of a significant evil that Congress has the power to prevent. There must be some degree of imminence to meet this test, but Holmes found that the widespread dissemination of the leaflets was sufficiently likely to disrupt the conscription process. He famously argued that the First Amendment does not allow people to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, which he saw as parallel to the leaflets.​

 

[Harpy Eagle]

ok-----does your religion require large assemblies?

Mine normally, does, but has made temporary modifications to cope with the current hysteria. But my religion is only one, out of tens of thousands.

Just because my religion can be practiced without some component doesn't justify denying other religions that component, if they consider it more essential.

Please show us your religions scriptures that demand you gather in large numbers.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Why on Earth do you convince yourself the Supreme Court would back the pastor given the Supreme Court has already ruled that Constitutional rights do not supersede public safety?

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” — Benjamin Franklin​

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Please show us your religions scriptures that demand you gather in large numbers.

I don't need to justify my religion, nor anyone else's to tyrannical anti-Christian filth such as you. Go f••• yourself.

 

[Faun]

That doesn't keep Impeached Trump as president past January 20, 2021, when the Constitution says his term expires.

The outcome of the next election will keep him there for four years beyond then.

I replied to the nonsense that there might be no election. Do try and keep up.

 

[Faun]

Why on Earth do you convince yourself the Supreme Court would back the pastor given the Supreme Court has already ruled that Constitutional rights do not supersede public safety?

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” — Benjamin Franklin​

Tell that to the Supreme Court... they already ruled public safety trumps Constitutional rights.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Please show us your religions scriptures that demand you gather in large numbers.

I don't need to justify my religion, nor anyone else's to tyrannical anti-Christian filth such as you. Go f••• yourself.

So, in other words you just made it up and when called on it you get triggered.

Thanks for letting us know.

by the way, you can write out the word fuck...we are all adults here, it will not hurt anyone's feelings.

 

[HappyJoy]

Looks like some of our government officials haven't read the Constitution.

---Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne was charged with misdemeanor counts of unlawful assembly---

Florida megachurch pastor arrested for holding services despite health order

A Florida pastor was arrested on Monday for operating a Tampa megachurch in violation of a public health order prohibiting large gatherings in place to stem the spread of the coronavirus. &nbs…

thehill.com

It's unconstitutional and won't take many trips up the court to be proven so

No, it's not. A church does not have the right to endanger the citizens in it;s community.

 

[Dana7360]

Looks like some of our government officials haven't read the Constitution.

---Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne was charged with misdemeanor counts of unlawful assembly---

Florida megachurch pastor arrested for holding services despite health order

A Florida pastor was arrested on Monday for operating a Tampa megachurch in violation of a public health order prohibiting large gatherings in place to stem the spread of the coronavirus. &nbs…

thehill.com

The constitution doesn't protect him in this situation.

Sorry but you can't put the lives of countless people in jeopardy.

Religion isn't an excuse. We've seen many people go to prison for murder who used the excuse that their religion or their god made them do it.

Yes you can assemble and worship but not when it puts people's lives in jeopardy.

The constitution isn't a get out of jail free card.

 

[Hellokitty]

Places of worship should be allowed to remain open as long as they are following the same listed guidelines listed for essential business and services. Many stores remain open along with public transportation, so not sure why a church would be any different.

Stores understandably are having to limit the purchase of toilet paper, meats, cleaning products, medications and many other things, resulting in people having to frequent stores on a more regular basis.

Of all the stores I've been in none have forced people to sanitize their hands before entering or imposed social distancing, while the overwhelming majority of people are doing these things on their own all stores are doing is informing people of the precautions they are making such as restricted hours, and increased sanitation and cleaning of the store.

Worship services should be held to the same requirements and in looking it seems this church is doing just that. Being forced to isolate can effect peoples health causing things like depression hopelessness and anxiety.

 

[OldLady]

Being forced to isolate can effect peoples health causing things like depression hopelessness and anxiety.

Being forced to isolate can effect peoples health causing things like depression hopelessness and anxiety.
That's for sure. It's a good reminder that if we know anyone living alone, call them with chipper news once a day, or at least email or facebook them. We have to tough this out.

 

[HappyJoy]

And nobody is denying you this right. There is no requirement in the Bible for you to gather in large numbers twice on Sunday and once on Wednesday. You can worship your God from your house, in fact this is how the very first Christians did it.

It's cute that Godless atheists who hate Christianity think that they are somehow entitled to any credibility in lecturing us on what our religion does or does not require of us.

Your religion requires you to stay the fuck home.