We don’t need to go into an economic depression

[LordBrownTrout]

To avoid an economic depression the government needs to grant money to businesses so they can make rent, basic op expenses and pay employees. The gov also needs to provide funds to the unemployed so they can pay rent and bills. If they do this we avoid a depression. To do this a much larger “stimulus” bill needs to be passed. We also need to coordinate with allied countries. If done correctly there should not be mass lay offs or any businesses shutting down... and there should not be a recession/depression beyond the life of the virus shit down.

What’s wrong with my theory? Can anybody explain why it would not work?

First money doesn't grow on trees.

I think we may see some real growth in the near future, simply because most will have to change their business models.

I'm primarily concerned about young children, day-care etc. etc. etc. Do you realize how low their tolerance to disease will be as a result of man's sterilization going forward, never mind social isolation.

They cant grasp that. Its mind boggling how ignorant they have become.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Hyper inflation only happens when there are more attractive currencies to own and the value of one decreases.

There can be no other response to that spectacular display of extreme ignorance, than this…

View attachment 319123

Sounds to me like you can’t explain it. I’m not saying we won’t face inflation... but it would be a very different inflation than the examples you pointed to

If you print tens of trillions, the dollar will be worthless. Why is that so difficult to understand? Why?

 

[Slade3200]

To avoid an economic depression the government needs to grant money to businesses so they can make rent, basic op expenses and pay employees. The gov also needs to provide funds to the unemployed so they can pay rent and bills. If they do this we avoid a depression. To do this a much larger “stimulus” bill needs to be passed. We also need to coordinate with allied countries. If done correctly there should not be mass lay offs or any businesses shutting down... and there should not be a recession/depression beyond the life of the virus shit down.

What’s wrong with my theory? Can anybody explain why it would not work?

First money doesn't grow on trees.

I think we may see some real growth in the near future, simply because most will have to change their business models.

I'm primarily concerned about young children, day-care etc. etc. etc. Do you realize how low their tolerance to disease will be as a result of man's sterilization going forward, never mind social isolation.

First in our current system of "fiat" currency, that is all our money truly consists of, think of the dollar bill as a "pulp fiction"

Second business models will be completely upended. Our mass production strategy depends on the efficiency of putting as many people into the smallest space possible. Our housing went from houses with white picket fences, to apartments, condo's and sky scrappers that stack people up like cord wood.

We will have to think Oliver Wendell Douglass, instead of Donald John Trump.

Agreed, currency is just paper that we assign value to and there are going to be many economic and cultural shifts that will need to be made from this awakening so we can be better prepared for the future.

 

[Slade3200]

To avoid an economic depression the government needs to grant money to businesses so they can make rent, basic op expenses and pay employees. The gov also needs to provide funds to the unemployed so they can pay rent and bills. If they do this we avoid a depression. To do this a much larger “stimulus” bill needs to be passed. We also need to coordinate with allied countries. If done correctly there should not be mass lay offs or any businesses shutting down... and there should not be a recession/depression beyond the life of the virus shit down.

What’s wrong with my theory? Can anybody explain why it would not work?

Free money didn't bring us out of the last depression. The war did. Seriously, your answer is just to print trillions out of thin air? Its mind boggling that you and so many cant see the ramifications of such idiocy. Its astounding. We're about to go into the ice age if we keep cowering down in fear. It will happen, the dollar will crash, and one world currency will be set.

Please explain the ramifications to me... let’s compare them to the effects of a depression and 40 million people out of work

You'll be wishing we had 40 million out of work if everyone cowers in fear.

Why? How does that work? You make these proclamations but don’t explain them. What’s up with that?

 

[Slade3200]

Hyper inflation only happens when there are more attractive currencies to own and the value of one decreases.

There can be no other response to that spectacular display of extreme ignorance, than this…

View attachment 319123

Sounds to me like you can’t explain it. I’m not saying we won’t face inflation... but it would be a very different inflation than the examples you pointed to

If you print tens of trillions, the dollar will be worthless. Why is that so difficult to understand? Why?

Ok let’s look at that... Americans hold about 100 Trillion in wealth. So let’s say we inject 10 Trillion to get us through this period... that would in theory dilute the dollar by 10% causing inflation. So we would have to deal with that vs. 10s of millions out of work and thousands of businesses shutting down. You seem very quick to dismiss a detailed discussion about the stimulus. Why is that?

 

[Slade3200]

Hyper inflation only happens when there are more attractive currencies to own and the value of one decreases.

There can be no other response to that spectacular display of extreme ignorance, than this…

View attachment 319123

Sounds to me like you can’t explain it. I’m not saying we won’t face inflation... but it would be a very different inflation than the examples you pointed to

Come on Bob Blaylock you were doing so good and we were heading down the path to a good discussion and then you post this crap. State your cases and let’s debate. Photos of people laughing is a white flag... you got more fight in you. Bring it out

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Hyper inflation only happens when there are more attractive currencies to own and the value of one decreases.

There can be no other response to that spectacular display of extreme ignorance, than this…

View attachment 319123

Sounds to me like you can’t explain it. I’m not saying we won’t face inflation... but it would be a very different inflation than the examples you pointed to

If you print tens of trillions, the dollar will be worthless. Why is that so difficult to understand? Why?

Ok let’s look at that... Americans hold about 100 Trillion in wealth. So let’s say we inject 10 Trillion to get us through this period... that would in theory dilute the dollar by 10% causing inflation. So we would have to deal with that vs. 10s of millions out of work and thousands of businesses shutting down. You seem very quick to dismiss a detailed discussion about the stimulus. Why is that?

For one, that money will never be paid back, two, it will lead to a one world currency which will devastate the entire globe. It really is that simple.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

And why not just shut everything down for 2 months, everything put on hold. No stimulus paid to anyone. Then open it all back up, people go back to their jobs and pay a little each month to catch up for the 2 months down.

Extreme strategy but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. I doubt anyone would agree to it either.

You shut a small business down for two months and most of them never come back.

And why is that? You're talking in 'normal' times, this pandemic is not normal times. Most small business's produce some kind of product or service, yes? We'd still need those products or services after the shut down, so many of them will keep going. Some may not come back, but they would have closed even without a pandemic.
Any bills they incurred, whether personal or for the business would also be put on hold.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

And why not just shut everything down for 2 months, everything put on hold. No stimulus paid to anyone. Then open it all back up, people go back to their jobs and pay a little each month to catch up for the 2 months down.

Extreme strategy but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. I doubt anyone would agree to it either.

Why 2 months ? You expecting a miracle ? how about 3 years instead ? 5 am. Time for coffee and todays body count.

To get the virus under control, which is the underlying basis of this thread. Within 2 months, it should have run it's course so it's not being spread to others that would reinfect.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

And why not just shut everything down for 2 months, everything put on hold. No stimulus paid to anyone. Then open it all back up, people go back to their jobs and pay a little each month to catch up for the 2 months down.

Extreme strategy but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. I doubt anyone would agree to it either.

Millions of people can’t afford to Just hit pause for two months. Without the stimulus people can’t afford rent bills and food.... employees get laid off, Businesses shut down, and all kinds of bad things happen. We are already seeing it happen now. The money needs to get out STAT to stop the bleeding. Problem is not enough is being sent out.

If everything...and I do mean EVERYTHING shut down......that would include those bills...……..what's there to afford??? During such a shut down, any bills incurred or not paid during the shut down would be added to your normal billing cycle but on a payment plan like adding an additional amount to the normal payment, paid back when shut down is over & everything back up & running. Limiting the time to pay it back to within a year or 2 at most.

Everything can’t shut down. Emergency services, medical, agriculture, grocery stores, deliveries, law enforcement, utilities etc all need to be maintained.

I think you drastically underestimate many people’s ability to afford to not make money for a couple of months while taking on the debt for those expenses. What we are seeing happen right now with job loss is proof that your plan would not work.
Why are you so against the government stimulus? It’s all Monopoly money anyways

IF a 2 month shut down were planned for in advance and everyone complied with it, most of those services wouldn't be needed. Other than for healthcare or to keep utilities running and also diary & livestock operations...…..yeah there are some points that couldn't be shut down, and no it's not a perfect plan either.

But for peoples ability to afford it...….as I said any loans, or lines of credit would be extended for that amount of time, and the only increase of payments would be for utilities. The bills for your power, water, sewer, etc would be broke down to include an additional amount each month over a 1 or 2 year period so it wouldn't be too much of a burden.

As I said it wouldn't be a popular option because it's extreme...........but we wouldn't be saddled with trillions of additional debt either AND there wouldn't be the human losses we are currently and will be experiencing from the pandemic. The virus would be no more. Plus the added jobs of those manufacturers of products that will be made in the US, instead of China......and don't forget added construction & other jobs to create the factories to house those productions. Many current low wage earners would have a chance for better paying jobs, that would pay back anything held during the shutdown.

I think you are close but I still don’t understand why you think it better for the millions of people Who love paycheck to paycheck to be saddled with the debt vs the government releasing more currency. Explain to me how the trillions of debt that our country undertakes would be crippling? Or why the currency couldn’t be created and released without debt if coordinated correctly with the rest of the world

And how has the government pumping out more cash not effected our national debt, raised taxes, etc ? Those millions of people living paycheck to paycheck wouldn't be 'saddled with more debt', if their current debts were put on hold along with their incomes..


As for your idea that the government should pay for everything with 3 or 5 or 10 stimulus plans and pumping out money left & right to keep the economy going as it always has...….is like using a credit card with no limit. Ka-Ching. What is the value of that credit card if you don't have to pay any of it back? Or be limited to how much you can spend based on your ability to make the payments???


If no stimulus was paid to anyone, and 99% of the country was shut down/put on hold, (all debts & payments as well) until the virus was contained...….there might still be some light at the end of the national debt tunnel.

And if we don't get ahead of this virus, there's too much of a chance of it keep recirculating and/or coming back around later...…...and we'll all be right back to where we are right now...…...everyone under stay at home orders, supply shortages, business's shut down, people laid off because of it, no jobs, no income..........and everyone screaming for another round of bailouts. How many times do we have to keep going round that same circle????

 

[Slade3200]

Hyper inflation only happens when there are more attractive currencies to own and the value of one decreases.

There can be no other response to that spectacular display of extreme ignorance, than this…

View attachment 319123

Sounds to me like you can’t explain it. I’m not saying we won’t face inflation... but it would be a very different inflation than the examples you pointed to

If you print tens of trillions, the dollar will be worthless. Why is that so difficult to understand? Why?

Ok let’s look at that... Americans hold about 100 Trillion in wealth. So let’s say we inject 10 Trillion to get us through this period... that would in theory dilute the dollar by 10% causing inflation. So we would have to deal with that vs. 10s of millions out of work and thousands of businesses shutting down. You seem very quick to dismiss a detailed discussion about the stimulus. Why is that?

For one, that money will never be paid back, two, it will lead to a one world currency which will devastate the entire globe. It really is that simple.

Ok, it will never be paid back. I’ll stimulate that... so how how does it lead to one world currency and and how does it devastate the entire globe. Connect the dots

 

[Slade3200]

And why not just shut everything down for 2 months, everything put on hold. No stimulus paid to anyone. Then open it all back up, people go back to their jobs and pay a little each month to catch up for the 2 months down.

Extreme strategy but sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. I doubt anyone would agree to it either.

Millions of people can’t afford to Just hit pause for two months. Without the stimulus people can’t afford rent bills and food.... employees get laid off, Businesses shut down, and all kinds of bad things happen. We are already seeing it happen now. The money needs to get out STAT to stop the bleeding. Problem is not enough is being sent out.

If everything...and I do mean EVERYTHING shut down......that would include those bills...……..what's there to afford??? During such a shut down, any bills incurred or not paid during the shut down would be added to your normal billing cycle but on a payment plan like adding an additional amount to the normal payment, paid back when shut down is over & everything back up & running. Limiting the time to pay it back to within a year or 2 at most.

Everything can’t shut down. Emergency services, medical, agriculture, grocery stores, deliveries, law enforcement, utilities etc all need to be maintained.

I think you drastically underestimate many people’s ability to afford to not make money for a couple of months while taking on the debt for those expenses. What we are seeing happen right now with job loss is proof that your plan would not work.
Why are you so against the government stimulus? It’s all Monopoly money anyways

IF a 2 month shut down were planned for in advance and everyone complied with it, most of those services wouldn't be needed. Other than for healthcare or to keep utilities running and also diary & livestock operations...…..yeah there are some points that couldn't be shut down, and no it's not a perfect plan either.

But for peoples ability to afford it...….as I said any loans, or lines of credit would be extended for that amount of time, and the only increase of payments would be for utilities. The bills for your power, water, sewer, etc would be broke down to include an additional amount each month over a 1 or 2 year period so it wouldn't be too much of a burden.

As I said it wouldn't be a popular option because it's extreme...........but we wouldn't be saddled with trillions of additional debt either AND there wouldn't be the human losses we are currently and will be experiencing from the pandemic. The virus would be no more. Plus the added jobs of those manufacturers of products that will be made in the US, instead of China......and don't forget added construction & other jobs to create the factories to house those productions. Many current low wage earners would have a chance for better paying jobs, that would pay back anything held during the shutdown.

I think you are close but I still don’t understand why you think it better for the millions of people Who love paycheck to paycheck to be saddled with the debt vs the government releasing more currency. Explain to me how the trillions of debt that our country undertakes would be crippling? Or why the currency couldn’t be created and released without debt if coordinated correctly with the rest of the world

And how has the government pumping out more cash not effected our national debt, raised taxes, etc ? Those millions of people living paycheck to paycheck wouldn't be 'saddled with more debt', if their current debts were put on hold along with their incomes..


As for your idea that the government should pay for everything with 3 or 5 or 10 stimulus plans and pumping out money left & right to keep the economy going as it always has...….is like using a credit card with no limit. Ka-Ching. What is the value of that credit card if you don't have to pay any of it back? Or be limited to how much you can spend based on your ability to make the payments???


If no stimulus was paid to anyone, and 99% of the country was shut down/put on hold, (all debts & payments as well) until the virus was contained...….there might still be some light at the end of the national debt tunnel.

And if we don't get ahead of this virus, there's too much of a chance of it keep recirculating and/or coming back around later...…...and we'll all be right back to where we are right now...…...everyone under stay at home orders, supply shortages, business's shut down, people laid off because of it, no jobs, no income..........and everyone screaming for another round of bailouts. How many times do we have to keep going round that same circle????

You seem very scared of the national debt but haven't articulated how injecting money into the economy actually ends up hurting us. We experience a few more % inflation vs dealing with a massive recession and job loss? I’ll take the inflation over the depression.... You underestimate the expense of a multi month shut down. It’s absurd to think it’s possible to do without stimulus funds. We’ve already seen millions of jobs lost just showing that thats what happens according to your plan. Don’t you think if there was a way to do manage this without stimulus then the conservatives that control the senate would have proposed a bill to handle things that way?!

 

[linux07]

 

[Rocko]

To avoid an economic depression the government needs to grant money to businesses so they can make rent, basic op expenses and pay employees. The gov also needs to provide funds to the unemployed so they can pay rent and bills. If they do this we avoid a depression. To do this a much larger “stimulus” bill needs to be passed. We also need to coordinate with allied countries. If done correctly there should not be mass lay offs or any businesses shutting down... and there should not be a recession/depression beyond the life of the virus shit down.

What’s wrong with my theory? Can anybody explain why it would not work?

The fact that congress and Trump are talking about more stimulus leads me to believe this is going to go beyond April. Hopefully I’m wrong. In any case I believe the economic downturn will be significant, and the short term remedy has long term ramifications. I’m not saying I’m not in favor of more stimulus, but you’re making it sound like there’s any easy solution to our economic problem. There isn’t.

 

[Vandalshandle]

If everything...and I do mean EVERYTHING shut down......that would include those bills...……..what's there to afford??? During such a shut down, any bills incurred or not paid during the shut down would be added to your normal billing cycle but on a payment plan like adding an additional amount to the normal payment, paid back when shut down is over & everything back up & running. Limiting the time to pay it back to within a year or 2 at most.

If everything is shut down, that wouldn't just mean the exchange of money; it would mean the production and distribution of food, medicines, utilities, services—everything.

What are people supposed to eat, when they cannot get food? What are people supposed to drink, when the supply of tap water stops flowing? What will happen to sanitation, when the sewers back up? Of course, you'll also have no electricity or gas with which to heat or cool your home, or to operate any appliances.

When there are far more people trying to survive under what, in effect, are stone-age conditions, with no technology, than the land can come anywhere close to supporting without modern technology, how many will survive?

NO...…..most utilities are digital or computerized and would still remain available. Any employees needed to keep it running would have to venture out for that purpose, but only the absolute neccessary to do so.

Any and all foods, medicines, or supplies be purchased in advance (may have to go on the future payment plan to do so).

No production would be needed, if it's prepared for in advance. The biggest issue would be healthcare related.......anyone with existing serious health issues, in hospitals or other facilities....that's where it could be the biggest problem

Well, Trump has an embarrassing problem about food production. It turns out that one hell of a lot of our food comes from the Imperial Valley, and is harvested by Mexicans, and now that the border is shut down, there is no one to harvest it.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

There are a thousand possible scenarios that could now lead the U.S. into a deep and lasting Depression. Coronavirus2 has triggered a multi-tier financial crisis and the Fed is trying desperately to put it out. The trillions the Fed is creating does not all go immediately into circulation, so immediate inflation is not likely. Most credit and cash created is just to bail out bankrupt or over- levereged corporations, banks and private privileged Hedge Fund "counterparties" of "prime dealers" the Fed works with. These include many financial institutions. Funds that go directly to workers or small businesses will not likely equal real money losses in the economy at first. So "depression" does not necessarily equal inflation. The Great Depresion saw deflation.

Of course during the Great Depression the U.S. was not yet the predominant world financial power, and the dollar was not yet the predominant world currency used in trade and banking. U.S. elites then would never have dared to take measures they are taking today.

Today the Fed, Wall Street and our bipartisan political Establishment, regardless of whatever nonsense they spew in normal times, have united in adopting a fiat currency "New Monetary Theory" which postulates that a sovereign Central Bank (like the Fed) linked up with a major (if declining) economy like our own, and backed with military power, should "print" any amount of money necessary to bail out its failed and over-levereged "Too Big to Fail" private institutions.

Along with "Zero Interest Policy" and corporate buybacks and numerous other "financial weapons of mass destruction," workers and savers were systematically penalized in recent years, speculation encouraged, and asset bubbles in stocks and capital instruments of almost every type developed. It was unsustainable and awaiting a collapse.

Covid-19 is the external disruption that will very likely, but not inevitably, lead to an extended Depression. The loss of dollar supremacy will have to occur to make American decline permanent. Such a U.S. decline will only be a relative decline, but it will feel horrible nonetheless. Worse case result would be if our leaders or people go crazy and try to maintain their supremacy through World War.

 

[Slade3200]

To avoid an economic depression the government needs to grant money to businesses so they can make rent, basic op expenses and pay employees. The gov also needs to provide funds to the unemployed so they can pay rent and bills. If they do this we avoid a depression. To do this a much larger “stimulus” bill needs to be passed. We also need to coordinate with allied countries. If done correctly there should not be mass lay offs or any businesses shutting down... and there should not be a recession/depression beyond the life of the virus shit down.

What’s wrong with my theory? Can anybody explain why it would not work?

The fact that congress and Trump are talking about more stimulus leads me to believe this is going to go beyond April. Hopefully I’m wrong. In any case I believe the economic downturn will be significant, and the short term remedy has long term ramifications. I’m not saying I’m not in favor of more stimulus, but you’re making it sound like there’s any easy solution to our economic problem. There isn’t.

I agree, nothing is simple. But I wanted to present a simple and clear idea and open up the debate. We control our currency as do a handful of other major countries. A depression affects the world for years to come. So why can’t the world governments agree on a plan to inject currency into the economy to save jobs, businesses and those without savings from financial ruin? Keep the boat afloat until the virus calms down and then deal with the inflation that will occur as a result of the monetary injection. I’d love to hear somebody provide a counter argument as to why the inflation would make us worse off than a depression... you wanna take a shot at it?

 

[Slade3200]

There are a thousand possible scenarios that could now lead the U.S. Into a deep and lasting Depression. Coronavirus2 has triggered a multi-tier financial crisis and the Fed is trying desperately to put it out. The trillions the Fed is creating does not all go immediately in circulation, so immediate inflation is not likely. Most credit and cash created is just to bail out bankrupt or over- levereged corporations and private Hedge Fund "counterpartsies" of "prime dealers" the Fed works with. These include many financial institutions. Funds that go directly to workers or small businesses will not equal the real money losses in the economy at first. So "depression" does not necessarily equal inflation. The Great Depresion saw deflation.

Of course during the Great Depression the U.S. was not yet the predominant world financial power, and the dollar was not yet the predominant world currency used in trade and banking, and U.S. elites would never have dared to take measures they are taking now.

Today the Fed, Wall Street and our bipartisan political Establishment, regardless of whatever nonsense they spew in normal times, has united in adopting a fiat currency "New Monetary Theory" which postulates that a sovereign Central Bank (like the Fed) linked up with a major (if declining) economy like our own, and backed with military power, should "print" any amount of money necessary to bail out its failed and over-levereged "Too Big to Fail" private institutions.

Along with "Zero Interest Policy" and corporate buybacks and numerous other "financial weapons of mass destruction," workers and savers were systematically penalized in recent years, speculation encouraged, and asset bubbles in stocks and capital instruments of almost every type developed. It was unsustainable and awaiting a collapse.

Covid-19 is the external disruption that will very likely, but not inevitably, lead to an extended Depression. The loss of dollar supremacy will have to occur to make American decline permanent. Such a U.S. decline will only be a relative decline, but it will feel horrible nonetheless. Worse case result would be if our leaders or people go crazy and try to maintain their supremacy through World War.

Thanks for sharing... interesting read. What are your thoughts about a massive stimulus and injecting enough money immediately to save all jobs and businesses from shut down during the shelter period of COVID?

we will have an inflation issue to deal with but isn’t that better than depression?

 

[Rocko]

To avoid an economic depression the government needs to grant money to businesses so they can make rent, basic op expenses and pay employees. The gov also needs to provide funds to the unemployed so they can pay rent and bills. If they do this we avoid a depression. To do this a much larger “stimulus” bill needs to be passed. We also need to coordinate with allied countries. If done correctly there should not be mass lay offs or any businesses shutting down... and there should not be a recession/depression beyond the life of the virus shit down.

What’s wrong with my theory? Can anybody explain why it would not work?

The fact that congress and Trump are talking about more stimulus leads me to believe this is going to go beyond April. Hopefully I’m wrong. In any case I believe the economic downturn will be significant, and the short term remedy has long term ramifications. I’m not saying I’m not in favor of more stimulus, but you’re making it sound like there’s any easy solution to our economic problem. There isn’t.

I agree, nothing is simple. But I wanted to present a simple and clear idea and open up the debate. We control our currency as do a handful of other major countries. A depression affects the world for years to come. So why can’t the world governments agree on a plan to inject currency into the economy to save jobs, businesses and those without savings from financial ruin? Keep the boat afloat until the virus calms down and then deal with the inflation that will occur as a result of the monetary injection. I’d love to hear somebody provide a counter argument as to why the inflation would make us worse off than a depression... you wanna take a shot at it?

No. I’m not even close to savvy enough on the economy to try to pretend I know what’s best. However the only logical conclusion I can think of is more government stimulus to prop up an economy that can’t function on its own for now. I agree that there needs to be a global effort to what is a world wide problem.

 

[eagle1462010]

Hyper inflation only happens when there are more attractive currencies to own and the value of one decreases.

There can be no other response to that spectacular display of extreme ignorance, than this…

View attachment 319123

Sounds to me like you can’t explain it. I’m not saying we won’t face inflation... but it would be a very different inflation than the examples you pointed to

If you print tens of trillions, the dollar will be worthless. Why is that so difficult to understand? Why?

Ok let’s look at that... Americans hold about 100 Trillion in wealth. So let’s say we inject 10 Trillion to get us through this period... that would in theory dilute the dollar by 10% causing inflation. So we would have to deal with that vs. 10s of millions out of work and thousands of businesses shutting down. You seem very quick to dismiss a detailed discussion about the stimulus. Why is that?

For one, that money will never be paid back, two, it will lead to a one world currency which will devastate the entire globe. It really is that simple.

Ok, it will never be paid back. I’ll stimulate that... so how how does it lead to one world currency and and how does it devastate the entire globe. Connect the dots

History of the Reserve Currency has always ended badly................It was the pound...........it is the dollar now...........and will be electronic currency next.

It's not the FEDERAL DEBT that is the main problem..........it is the Federal Reserve handing it out like cocaine to an addict at the back door........It is using Fractional Banking to make bets and manipulate the markets............into GIANT BALLOONS...............

Then some guy goes.......be happy man .....look at the value of your house.......Wow dude......then it crashes and your house is under water...........They laugh..............do it again.