Zone1 We are all NATURAL THEISTS with “homage to reason” unless we lock~in to or against revealed theist-ism vs anti-revelation atheist-ism

[ding]

So what? Those on the right don't like my beliefs at all about their religious beliefs because conservatives are supposed to be all pigeonholed and expected to have drank the Kool-Aid like the Heavens Gate cult did.

What comes closest to my beliefs are those of Spinoza who I doubt you have ever heard of.

Look up Heavens Gate and tell me why Catholicism is any different. It is a death cult just like they were.

So what? You think you are a patriot and think it's unimportant that your views toward God and religion align with the founding fathers of socialism and communism.

Socialism and communism have always subordinated religion. In that regard you are doing their dirty work for them.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

He believed the 'why' was strictly his business. So do I.

He did not believe the story that Jesus was divine/IOW, he believed the story to be fabricated. To suggest that because he liked the morals that Jesus espoused means more than that or that Jesus was some son of a god or part of a ludicrous trinity is preposterous.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

I don't care about your upbringing and don't believe your upbringing had anything to do with you not knowing that Thomas Jefferson believed in a moralistic and providential creator.

That would be news to everyone, including him. How many links do you need that say he was a DEIST and didn't believe the concocted story that became Christianity? Lots of people believe in a creator and for some reason, you insist that validates you swallowing the Catholic story.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

So what? You think you are a patriot and think it's unimportant that your views toward God and religion align with the founding fathers of socialism and communism.

Socialism and communism have always subordinated religion. In that regard you are doing their dirty work for them.

OMFG! It is not a mandatory requirement that a conservative drink the Catholic/Christian Kool-aid. What a downright stupid post to suggest that if someone doesn't buy into your belief world he is therefore a Communist or Socialist! I think I have heard everything now. You represent all that is wrong with Catholicism and why I loathe it. Since I once was a firm believer and now I am not you know you can't use fear on me so you disparage me to your friends by claiming that I must align with the views of socialism and communism because they are not believers in your imagined god, either.

Secular humanists don't believe in your god. Are they all communists or socialists? I spoke of being raised by nuns who I also said were very nice people. They also taught us to despise atheists as being "bad" people, too. That they were not to be trusted or friends with. Catholicism/Christianity is a mind game where the believers are in a clique or cult where they are indoctrinated to believe that only they are right and everyone else is wrong and not only wrong but bad people. You are doing that by suggesting I am "bad" because I must align with socialism or communism if I am not a believer like you.

I believe this is a sickness. A mind virus that affects believers as a defense mechanism against the entry of any other thought patterns and beliefs that this virus is inputted into the brains of Christian believers by their elders by suggesting that nonbelievers are sinners and tainted and not as good or worthy as a believer is and not chosen. It is sickening to me.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

What do you define as a "miracle"?

I've seen many people claim "it's a miracle" when it was their own doing that go them the happiness they recieved.

.

I gave a couple of examples.

If you're not going to examine them, okay.


.

 

[BreezeWood]

Why does it bother you what others believe in the matter of religion and religious faith? What inspires your need to criticize others, to attempt to shake or destroy their faith?

Is it a fear the theists are right?

who's kidding who -

they were so well meaning ....

Atheists still exist. But given their interest in what everybody else thinks, how often they are drawn to discussions like this, how much they can strain at gnats to disprove/disparage/criticize/ridicule what others believe, I believe they all have a nagging sense of that Divine presence and are desperate to dismiss it lest they have to admit they were wrong.

there are other true religions than those madeup ones from the desert or the true one jesus is crucified for to this day by those same referred in their unsubstantiated bibles of false commandments hereditary idolatresses religions of apartheid et al.

- in comparison to secular atheism which is the historical pariah.

 

[BreezeWood]

You think you are a patriot and think it's unimportant that your views toward God and religion align with the founding fathers of socialism and communism.

those were first put in writing in 1776 - 87 u s constitution the first secular gov't w/ allowance for religious freedom - for which desert dwellers since have tried to make out as a document endorsing christianity - they are who fear the truth without dogma.

 

[Crepitus]

Guidance

And I rest my case.

 

[Foxfyre]

He did not believe the story that Jesus was divine/IOW, he believed the story to be fabricated. To suggest that because he liked the morals that Jesus espoused means more than that or that Jesus was some son of a god or part of a ludicrous trinity is preposterous.

So what does it matter what he believed about Jesus? What is that to you? Why should that matter to anybody?

He was very clear that he opposed the misuse of the Faith, but he believed the concepts/precepts of Christianity to be the basis for a moral, just and beneficial society, for a people who would govern themselves.

As for what he thought about the opinions of others re his beliefs:

"To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other.”
― Thomas Jefferson, The Jefferson Bible"

“Say nothing of my religion. It is known to my God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life; if that has been honest and dutiful to society, the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one. —Thomas Jefferson.”
― Thomas Jefferson, The Jefferson Bible - The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth

 

[ding]

That would be news to everyone, including him. How many links do you need that say he was a DEIST and didn't believe the concocted story that became Christianity? Lots of people believe in a creator and for some reason, you insist that validates you swallowing the Catholic story.

"Thomas Jefferson affirmed the core of classical philosophical theology. Jefferson understood Nature’s God to be a creating, particularly providential, and moralistic being, whose existence and causal relation to the world was essential to the foundations of natural-rights..."

Thomas Jefferson, Nature’s God, and the Theological Foundations of Natural-Rights Republicanism (Chapter 3) - The Classical and Christian Origins of American Politics​

 

[ding]

OMFG! It is not a mandatory requirement that a conservative drink the Catholic/Christian Kool-aid. What a downright stupid post to suggest that if someone doesn't buy into your belief world he is therefore a Communist or Socialist! I think I have heard everything now. You represent all that is wrong with Catholicism and why I loathe it. Since I once was a firm believer and now I am not you know you can't use fear on me so you disparage me to your friends by claiming that I must align with the views of socialism and communism because they are not believers in your imagined god, either.

Secular humanists don't believe in your god. Are they all communists or socialists? I spoke of being raised by nuns who I also said were very nice people. They also taught us to despise atheists as being "bad" people, too. That they were not to be trusted or friends with. Catholicism/Christianity is a mind game where the believers are in a clique or cult where they are indoctrinated to believe that only they are right and everyone else is wrong and not only wrong but bad people. You are doing that by suggesting I am "bad" because I must align with socialism or communism if I am not a believer like you.

I believe this is a sickness. A mind virus that affects believers as a defense mechanism against the entry of any other thought patterns and beliefs that this virus is inputted into the brains of Christian believers by their elders by suggesting that nonbelievers are sinners and tainted and not as good or worthy as a believer is and not chosen. It is sickening to me.

Socialism and communism have always subordinated religion.

 

[ding]

And I rest my case.

How so? I'm not asking him to save me or do anything for me. I'm asking him what he wants me to do for him.

 

[ding]

those were first put in writing in 1776 - 87 u s constitution the first secular gov't w/ allowance for religious freedom - for which desert dwellers since have tried to make out as a document endorsing christianity - they are who fear the truth without dogma.

Your founding fathers are Marx, Lenin and Mao.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

So what does it matter what he believed about Jesus? What is that to you? Why should that matter to anybody?

He was very clear that he opposed the misuse of the Faith, but he believed the concepts/precepts of Christianity to be the basis for a moral, just and beneficial society, for a people who would govern themselves.

As for what he thought about the opinions of others re his beliefs:

"To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other.”
― Thomas Jefferson, The Jefferson Bible"

“Say nothing of my religion. It is known to my God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life; if that has been honest and dutiful to society, the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one. —Thomas Jefferson.”
― Thomas Jefferson, The Jefferson Bible - The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth

Again, so what? He thought that Jesus came up with some good morals. Many other people did too and they lived centuries before Jesus. Look up the Hammurabi code. Does that mean the writer of those was divine or that the code had good morals? Jesus had SOME good moral values. So what?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

"Thomas Jefferson affirmed the core of classical philosophical theology. Jefferson understood Nature’s God to be a creating, particularly providential, and moralistic being, whose existence and causal relation to the world was essential to the foundations of natural-rights..."

Thomas Jefferson, Nature’s God, and the Theological Foundations of Natural-Rights Republicanism (Chapter 3) - The Classical and Christian Origins of American Politics​

So what? He did NOT believe in Christianity AT ALL!!

 

[ding]

Again, so what? He thought that Jesus came up with some good morals. Many other people did too and they lived centuries before Jesus. Look up the Hammurabi code. Does that mean the writer of those was divine or that the code had good morals? Jesus had SOME good moral values. So what?

Would you like to abolish religion?

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Socialism and communism have always subordinated religion.

As well they should. So what?

 

[ding]

So what? He did NOT believe in Christianity AT ALL!!

He believed in a moralistic and providential creator. Same as Christianity believes. Whereas you believe as Marx and Lenin believed that religion is harmful.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Would you like to abolish religion?

Yes. It is highly detrimental to humans, society, and the further evolution of mankind.

 

[ding]

As well they should. So what?

So glad you admitted that.