Washing machines/dryers prices up 17% under Trump (thank you, tariffs)

[Picaro]

According to Nobel laureate Milton Friedman, trade deficits are not ever harmful in the long run because the currency will always come back to the country in some form or another, such as via foreign investment.

You think Economics is a eal science or something. That's funny. lol lol lol like all 'experts', they whore themselves out to the highest bidder like all other 'scientists' do, and they follow the latest fads and fashions popular with their fellow 'scholars'.

And, Milton Friedman has said a lot of things over the decades; you might want to read up on them and try to not misrepresent what he has said.

 

[Flash]

What great economist taught your class? How long ago?

The effects of trade imbalance in the US economy are debateable.
The Pros & Cons of a Trade Deficit

But generally, a trade imbalance "should" lower wages and employment. HOWEVER, our trade balance with the EU has not been a bad thing, despite what Trump may sell on TV
America's Trade Deficit Is Largely Paid For By European Investment In American Manufacturing

Jina is probably a different story. Unlike the EU trade barriers are more one way. As the US is now finding out with Harley, and BMW and Mercedes and Toyota will follow.

Yes, they take the money we give them and then they create business with them. Then they reap the profits.

If they did not have that cash in the first place then the money would have stayed in the US and used for American investment and the profits would have stayed in the US.

You are richer if you own the business than if you work for the person that owns the business and that is why that rational about foreign investment fails under scrutiny. That is what is wrong with the argument that everything is OK because the foreign entities are buying up America with the money we gave them in unfair trade deals. We may get the crumbs but they get the big bucks.

We should be doing that to other countries not having other countries do that to us. We got a tremendous amount of wealth accumulated in the US because we did that after WWII. Now that wealth is being siphoned off because of unfair trade deals.

That is what Trump is smart enough to understand and what he is trying to fix..

Let me summarize the data for you,

Arguably, Asia makes washers that are unfairly priced because of closed markets and worker abuse. However, trump has fucked you bigly if you're buying a car or truck, and for no reason other than you are buying his tv shit.

Let me lay it out to you.

China subsidizes their industries giving them an unfair cost advantage. China steals our technology so they don't have development cost in their pricing structure. China puts high barriers on our products so their industries don't have to compete.

Because of those things Chinese goods are cheaper than they should be causing a big one way flow of American dollars into their country. Dollars that are a demand on our wealth.

That is what Trump is trying to fix.

You and all other Americans will be much better off in the long run if Trump is successful in establishing fair trade than you would be for the temporary lower price for the washing machine.

Go take a course in Economics.

Again, economists don’t agree with you.

They are not much of an economist if they don't understand what the word "fair" means fair trade, are they?

 

[Brain357]

The effects of trade imbalance in the US economy are debateable.
The Pros & Cons of a Trade Deficit

But generally, a trade imbalance "should" lower wages and employment. HOWEVER, our trade balance with the EU has not been a bad thing, despite what Trump may sell on TV
America's Trade Deficit Is Largely Paid For By European Investment In American Manufacturing

Jina is probably a different story. Unlike the EU trade barriers are more one way. As the US is now finding out with Harley, and BMW and Mercedes and Toyota will follow.

Yes, they take the money we give them and then they create business with them. Then they reap the profits.

If they did not have that cash in the first place then the money would have stayed in the US and used for American investment and the profits would have stayed in the US.

You are richer if you own the business than if you work for the person that owns the business and that is why that rational about foreign investment fails under scrutiny. That is what is wrong with the argument that everything is OK because the foreign entities are buying up America with the money we gave them in unfair trade deals. We may get the crumbs but they get the big bucks.

We should be doing that to other countries not having other countries do that to us. We got a tremendous amount of wealth accumulated in the US because we did that after WWII. Now that wealth is being siphoned off because of unfair trade deals.

That is what Trump is smart enough to understand and what he is trying to fix..

Let me summarize the data for you,

Arguably, Asia makes washers that are unfairly priced because of closed markets and worker abuse. However, trump has fucked you bigly if you're buying a car or truck, and for no reason other than you are buying his tv shit.

Let me lay it out to you.

China subsidizes their industries giving them an unfair cost advantage. China steals our technology so they don't have development cost in their pricing structure. China puts high barriers on our products so their industries don't have to compete.

Because of those things Chinese goods are cheaper than they should be causing a big one way flow of American dollars into their country. Dollars that are a demand on our wealth.

That is what Trump is trying to fix.

You and all other Americans will be much better off in the long run if Trump is successful in establishing fair trade than you would be for the temporary lower price for the washing machine.

Go take a course in Economics.

Again, economists don’t agree with you.

They are not much of an economist if they don't understand what the word "fair" means fair trade, are they?

So
It isn’t fair that China sells us resources well below value? You think we are better off paying more, that’s a good deal to you?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The effects of trade imbalance in the US economy are debateable.
The Pros & Cons of a Trade Deficit

But generally, a trade imbalance "should" lower wages and employment. HOWEVER, our trade balance with the EU has not been a bad thing, despite what Trump may sell on TV
America's Trade Deficit Is Largely Paid For By European Investment In American Manufacturing

Jina is probably a different story. Unlike the EU trade barriers are more one way. As the US is now finding out with Harley, and BMW and Mercedes and Toyota will follow.

Yes, they take the money we give them and then they create business with them. Then they reap the profits.

If they did not have that cash in the first place then the money would have stayed in the US and used for American investment and the profits would have stayed in the US.

You are richer if you own the business than if you work for the person that owns the business and that is why that rational about foreign investment fails under scrutiny. That is what is wrong with the argument that everything is OK because the foreign entities are buying up America with the money we gave them in unfair trade deals. We may get the crumbs but they get the big bucks.

We should be doing that to other countries not having other countries do that to us. We got a tremendous amount of wealth accumulated in the US because we did that after WWII. Now that wealth is being siphoned off because of unfair trade deals.

That is what Trump is smart enough to understand and what he is trying to fix..

Let me summarize the data for you,

Arguably, Asia makes washers that are unfairly priced because of closed markets and worker abuse. However, trump has fucked you bigly if you're buying a car or truck, and for no reason other than you are buying his tv shit.

Let me lay it out to you.

China subsidizes their industries giving them an unfair cost advantage. China steals our technology so they don't have development cost in their pricing structure. China puts high barriers on our products so their industries don't have to compete.

Because of those things Chinese goods are cheaper than they should be causing a big one way flow of American dollars into their country. Dollars that are a demand on our wealth.

That is what Trump is trying to fix.

You and all other Americans will be much better off in the long run if Trump is successful in establishing fair trade than you would be for the temporary lower price for the washing machine.

Go take a course in Economics.

Again, economists don’t agree with you.

They are not much of an economist if they don't understand what the word "fair" means fair trade, are they?

They are very good economist as they understand that fair is a fairy tale we tell our children to help them sleep at night. Most of us move past when we become adults, so I guess there is still hope for you.

 

[Andylusion]

lol everybody's lazy and worthless, except of course for the tiny handful of 'high productivity types' on innernetz message boards who peddle Forbes mag propaganda and business school press releases.

Hey, thank you dozen or so biz geniuses for single-handedly keep the world economy afloat depite all that 'hard work' you're doing here, and for not immigrating to the business Paradise of Red China, cuz we all know you would be zillions of times more valuable to them.

In other news, nobody can tel us who is supposed to buy all the crap when 99.99% of the planet makes this 3 cents an hour the geniuses all think we should be making. I guess the customers just appear magically n stuff, like they do in all right wing economic theories and ideologies.

No no, I think you are reading into my post, what isn't there.

You can work really really hard at something. That doesn't mean that the value of your super hard work, is worth more money.

Are there lazy people? Yes. Are lazy people generally poor? Yes.

But that isn't what I am talking about. I'm talking about the market value of labor.

What does that mean? Market value of labor, is how much money the customer.... mean the people the buy the product or service.... how much money the customer is willing to pay for a given labor.... labor meaning the product or service being sold.

For example.... ten years ago I would get an oil change for $20. Today I can get an oil change for $20.

I'm not going to pay much more than that, because if it costs too much, I'll just do the oil change myself.

This is why, you don't see prices rising on oil changes that much.
This is also why, you don't see pay for oil change people that much.

It doesn't matter if they work harder than anyone else on the face of the earth. The fact is, the value of that labor.... the labor to change your oil, didn't go up. The fact I had an oil change 3 months ago, doesn't mean that magically now an oil change is worth $50.

And you can't pay the employee, more than the customer is willing to pay. I can't pay you $50, when the customer is only willing to pay $20.

This is what I mean by sucking air, doesn't entitle you to a pay increase. It doesn't.

If you want to earn more money, you have to do something of higher value. Instead of changing oil, learn how to fix the car so the engine runs. That's worth far more money to people, than only changing the oil.

Better yet, open your own garage, and then you'll earn a ton more. Better yet, learn a skill that pays even more money than that. My relative learned how to weld on nuclear power plants. It's really tough with all the regulations and controls. But it also pays a ton of money. He makes over six figures.

This is why they says "work smarter, not just harder". Right? You can work hard. I work hard at what I do.

But, I know that if I really want to increase my pay, it requires more than working hard. It means working smart. Which is why I'm looking into getting certs, and moving to a different career.

This is what I mean. I'm not sitting around going "Hey I did this for a whole year! Now I deserve more money!".... no..... when I do a job that is worth more money, then I'll deserve more money.... and by the way... I'll get more money. Not just deserve it, but actually get it.

 

[Andylusion]

It's complete idiocy to turn a country into a consumer economy while simultaneously stripping it of nearly all of the high productivity jobs and the disposable incomes necessary for a 'consumer economy' to work. Wall Street doesn't have to care, they have all the tax credits and subsidies that make Red China a grand investment for them.

Trump is trying to reverse that, and hopefully he gets some of it done. The problem is they looted the domestic economy for decades, and it will take some time to correct that, and the attention spans of the 'It's All About Me!!' generations is measured in seconds, not years.

You are correct.

Back in my college days I took a course in International Economics. The thing that I remember the most about that course is the importance of a balance in trade.

When a country has more moeny going out than it has coming in then all that extra money becomes a drain of wealth.

Back in the 1980s we had all our money going to Japan. With the extra dollars they were able to buy a good portion of Hawaii and California. In addition they bought American business and the profits started going to the Japanese. We are poorer because of that trade deficit.

I am just glad Trump understand the problem and is working hard to fix it and yes we are going to have some disruptions until we get it back in line.

Other Presidents didn't have the balls to confront the problem. God bless Trump.

Right now not to worry. The tariffs are a small fraction of our booming economy.

Trump Hates the Trade Deficit. Most Economists Don’t.


Most economists do not see the trade gap as money “lost” to other countries, nor do they worry about trade deficits to a large degree. That’s because trade imbalances are affected by a host of macroeconomic factors, including the relative growth rates of countries, the value of their currencies, and their saving and investment rates. For instance, America’s trade deficit narrowed dramatically during the Great Recession, when national consumption faltered.

I don't know who "most economist" are. That goes against what I was taught in my International Economics course.

When you have a negative trade deficit then that money becomes a demand on your wealth. It is really as simple as that.

A country increases it wealth by getting money from other countries. It loses it wealth when the other countries have its money.

Now to be fair you can have an imbalance in trade and that can be offset by money coming in from other sources like foreign investments. In fact that is what saved the US for many years. We had tremendous worldwide investment and the profits offset what we were losing in trade. That is what those economist are referring to. However, that will evaporate over time as foreign counties use their excess dollars to invest in the US and reverse the flow of money. That is what Trump is concerned about and rightfully so.

Better economists than whoever taught your class. How long ago was this?

The US economy is all smoke and mirrors.

Huh? Wuh? Yeah, it's all a myth.... all that wealth we're creating, that other countries are not.... which is why no country wants to be in the US market...... you know.... except for all of them. They can clearly see the smoke and mirrors they want.

 

[Indeependent]

You are correct.

Back in my college days I took a course in International Economics. The thing that I remember the most about that course is the importance of a balance in trade.

When a country has more moeny going out than it has coming in then all that extra money becomes a drain of wealth.

Back in the 1980s we had all our money going to Japan. With the extra dollars they were able to buy a good portion of Hawaii and California. In addition they bought American business and the profits started going to the Japanese. We are poorer because of that trade deficit.

I am just glad Trump understand the problem and is working hard to fix it and yes we are going to have some disruptions until we get it back in line.

Other Presidents didn't have the balls to confront the problem. God bless Trump.

Right now not to worry. The tariffs are a small fraction of our booming economy.

Trump Hates the Trade Deficit. Most Economists Don’t.


Most economists do not see the trade gap as money “lost” to other countries, nor do they worry about trade deficits to a large degree. That’s because trade imbalances are affected by a host of macroeconomic factors, including the relative growth rates of countries, the value of their currencies, and their saving and investment rates. For instance, America’s trade deficit narrowed dramatically during the Great Recession, when national consumption faltered.

I don't know who "most economist" are. That goes against what I was taught in my International Economics course.

When you have a negative trade deficit then that money becomes a demand on your wealth. It is really as simple as that.

A country increases it wealth by getting money from other countries. It loses it wealth when the other countries have its money.

Now to be fair you can have an imbalance in trade and that can be offset by money coming in from other sources like foreign investments. In fact that is what saved the US for many years. We had tremendous worldwide investment and the profits offset what we were losing in trade. That is what those economist are referring to. However, that will evaporate over time as foreign counties use their excess dollars to invest in the US and reverse the flow of money. That is what Trump is concerned about and rightfully so.

Better economists than whoever taught your class. How long ago was this?

The US economy is all smoke and mirrors.

Huh? Wuh? Yeah, it's all a myth.... all that wealth we're creating, that other countries are not.... which is why no country wants to be in the US market...... you know.... except for all of them. They can clearly see the smoke and mirrors they want.

Then why do over 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour?
I was on Wall Street in the early 80s.
Reagan started fixing the economy to exclude minorities.
Now we have an albatross around our necks...a very expensive albatross.

I am hoping Trump's vision of bringing jobs and opportunities back to the US pays off.

 

[Andylusion]

Trump Hates the Trade Deficit. Most Economists Don’t.


Most economists do not see the trade gap as money “lost” to other countries, nor do they worry about trade deficits to a large degree. That’s because trade imbalances are affected by a host of macroeconomic factors, including the relative growth rates of countries, the value of their currencies, and their saving and investment rates. For instance, America’s trade deficit narrowed dramatically during the Great Recession, when national consumption faltered.

I don't know who "most economist" are. That goes against what I was taught in my International Economics course.

When you have a negative trade deficit then that money becomes a demand on your wealth. It is really as simple as that.

A country increases it wealth by getting money from other countries. It loses it wealth when the other countries have its money.

Now to be fair you can have an imbalance in trade and that can be offset by money coming in from other sources like foreign investments. In fact that is what saved the US for many years. We had tremendous worldwide investment and the profits offset what we were losing in trade. That is what those economist are referring to. However, that will evaporate over time as foreign counties use their excess dollars to invest in the US and reverse the flow of money. That is what Trump is concerned about and rightfully so.

Better economists than whoever taught your class. How long ago was this?

The US economy is all smoke and mirrors.

Huh? Wuh? Yeah, it's all a myth.... all that wealth we're creating, that other countries are not.... which is why no country wants to be in the US market...... you know.... except for all of them. They can clearly see the smoke and mirrors they want.

Then why do over 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour?
I was on Wall Street in the early 80s.
Reagan started fixing the economy to exclude minorities.
Now we have an albatross around our necks...a very expensive albatross.

I am hoping Trump's vision of bringing jobs and opportunities back to the US pays off.

...... wut? 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour? Are you crazy?

Barely 15% of Americans make $9/hour or less.

Middle-class Americans made more money last year than ever before

The median income in $57K. Who did you let mess you up in the head?

And how did Reagan 'exclude' minorities? Do tell which specific law, excluded minorities. Are you nuts?

 

[Flash]

I don't know who "most economist" are. That goes against what I was taught in my International Economics course.

When you have a negative trade deficit then that money becomes a demand on your wealth. It is really as simple as that.

A country increases it wealth by getting money from other countries. It loses it wealth when the other countries have its money.

Now to be fair you can have an imbalance in trade and that can be offset by money coming in from other sources like foreign investments. In fact that is what saved the US for many years. We had tremendous worldwide investment and the profits offset what we were losing in trade. That is what those economist are referring to. However, that will evaporate over time as foreign counties use their excess dollars to invest in the US and reverse the flow of money. That is what Trump is concerned about and rightfully so.

Better economists than whoever taught your class. How long ago was this?

The US economy is all smoke and mirrors.

Huh? Wuh? Yeah, it's all a myth.... all that wealth we're creating, that other countries are not.... which is why no country wants to be in the US market...... you know.... except for all of them. They can clearly see the smoke and mirrors they want.

Then why do over 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour?
I was on Wall Street in the early 80s.
Reagan started fixing the economy to exclude minorities.
Now we have an albatross around our necks...a very expensive albatross.

I am hoping Trump's vision of bringing jobs and opportunities back to the US pays off.

...... wut? 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour? Are you crazy?

Barely 15% of Americans make $9/hour or less.

Middle-class Americans made more money last year than ever before

The median income in $57K. Who did you let mess you up in the head?

And how did Reagan 'exclude' minorities? Do tell which specific law, excluded minorities. Are you nuts?

I was going to post the reference showing that the average American makes about $25 an hour but his/her/its post was so stupid I decided to not even bother. You can't fix stupidity like that.

 

[Flopper]

This is not socialism, but common sense. Unless you want your future to be in China.

The biggest and best countries are by default the winners of trade wars, yet we have kept losing so much.

Trump and you all are wanting us to be emulating China, which has a socialist market economy. The more we copy them, the more we move towards socialism

Our country is in the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in its history. We have, as multiple threads on this forum tell us, record low unemployment and our economy is BOOMING.

Explain how that equals losing? If we are losing so much, how is our economy so amazing?

No, actually we want him to protect our national capital. If you have a problem with that, maybe China is the place for you. That's where all the jobs would be headed under your insane plan.

My insane plan is this weird thing called "freedom" and a free market. Perhaps you've heard of them, they used to be the hallmarks of this great country. But now we have people like you that want the central government to dictate to us what to buy and to punish us if we do not buy the right product made in the right place.

You want to take away freedom of choice and then you tell me to move to China. ****, I do not need to move there, people like you are turning our great country into China.

I love how you totally ignored the fact our economy is doing great right, prior to the socialist tariffs being put into place by our dear leader.

The free market is the best option. Protecting an industry that can't compete in world markets will just make it less competitive and less able to compete. On a worldwide stage, tariffs reward companies that are less efficient, penalize those that are. Consumers pay more and get less. The only sure winners are the people that collect the tariffs.

Consider a tariff of 25% on widgets. A small manufactures buys widgets in china because they are 10% below the US price so he will order from the US company paying an additional 10% rather pay a 25% tariff but what if there is no suitable US source. A large manufacture buys from China at 40% lower than the US price. So he has no choice but to continue to buy from China and thus pay the 25% tariff. Assuming he sells to a large domestic and foreign market, his prices are now no longer competitive so he must make adjustments such as moving production outside the US, dropping the product line.

Since the future of tariffs can't be predicted, businesses can not plan efficiently. A tariff may be a windfall and the company expands expecting more business and suddenly the tariff is eliminated.

So much bullshit in this, it's incredible.

Protecting an industry that may not be able to compete, because China has slave wages... may be worthwhile unless you want the whole industrial capacity of this country to be relocated to China.

If you honestly believe this nonsense, better start packing your bags. Your future job will be in China at one dollar a week. They don't have any problems protecting their industry by the way.

Over the long run it does not protect the industry because tariffs eliminate competition. Equipment that reduces the producers costs is no longer a high priority. The industry now has room for price hikes and increases in wages which makes their products even less competitive.

Secondly, businesses are not importers or exports they are both. A steel fabricator will may buy steel abroad because it is either significantly cheaper than buying domestic or the exact material he needs is not widely available. So he continues to buy abroad and pay the tariff or he the pays higher cost for the domestic material. When he goes to sell his finish product, he must sell at a higher price to both the domestically and international markets. And if other countries have retaliated, in the trade war, his foreign customers are paying tariff making his products less competitive abroad. Tell me exactly how this tariff is helping this company.

When tariffs are used to balance trade, government pics the winners and losers. Winners are those that delivery less value to customers and losers are those that do.

 

[Indeependent]

Better economists than whoever taught your class. How long ago was this?

The US economy is all smoke and mirrors.

Huh? Wuh? Yeah, it's all a myth.... all that wealth we're creating, that other countries are not.... which is why no country wants to be in the US market...... you know.... except for all of them. They can clearly see the smoke and mirrors they want.

Then why do over 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour?
I was on Wall Street in the early 80s.
Reagan started fixing the economy to exclude minorities.
Now we have an albatross around our necks...a very expensive albatross.

I am hoping Trump's vision of bringing jobs and opportunities back to the US pays off.

...... wut? 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour? Are you crazy?

Barely 15% of Americans make $9/hour or less.

Middle-class Americans made more money last year than ever before

The median income in $57K. Who did you let mess you up in the head?

And how did Reagan 'exclude' minorities? Do tell which specific law, excluded minorities. Are you nuts?

I was going to post the reference showing that the average American makes about $25 an hour but his/her/its post was so stupid I decided to not even bother. You can't fix stupidity like that.

Average?
You mean the ones who live in LA, Detroit and NYC and make $9.00/hour.
I hate Rush Limbaugh rolled up statistics.

 

[Flopper]

This is not socialism, but common sense. Unless you want your future to be in China.

The biggest and best countries are by default the winners of trade wars, yet we have kept losing so much.

Trump and you all are wanting us to be emulating China, which has a socialist market economy. The more we copy them, the more we move towards socialism

Our country is in the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in its history. We have, as multiple threads on this forum tell us, record low unemployment and our economy is BOOMING.

Explain how that equals losing? If we are losing so much, how is our economy so amazing?

No, actually we want him to protect our national capital. If you have a problem with that, maybe China is the place for you. That's where all the jobs would be headed under your insane plan.

My insane plan is this weird thing called "freedom" and a free market. Perhaps you've heard of them, they used to be the hallmarks of this great country. But now we have people like you that want the central government to dictate to us what to buy and to punish us if we do not buy the right product made in the right place.

You want to take away freedom of choice and then you tell me to move to China. ****, I do not need to move there, people like you are turning our great country into China.

I love how you totally ignored the fact our economy is doing great right, prior to the socialist tariffs being put into place by our dear leader.

The free market is the best option. Protecting an industry that can't compete in world markets will just make it less competitive and less able to compete. On a worldwide stage, tariffs reward companies that are less efficient, penalize those that are. Consumers pay more and get less. The only sure winners are the people that collect the tariffs.

Consider a tariff of 25% on widgets. A small manufactures buys widgets in china because they are 10% below the US price so he will order from the US company paying an additional 10% rather pay a 25% tariff but what if there is no suitable US source. A large manufacture buys from China at 40% lower than the US price. So he has no choice but to continue to buy from China and thus pay the 25% tariff. Assuming he sells to a large domestic and foreign market, his prices are now no longer competitive so he must make adjustments such as moving production outside the US, dropping the product line.

Since the future of tariffs can't be predicted, businesses can not plan efficiently. A tariff may be a windfall and the company expands expecting more business and suddenly the tariff is eliminated.

You know squat about markets. There are no 'free markets', and Red China most certainly doesn't have any, nor does any other country have as free a 'market' as the U.S., which has to heavily subsidize all those 'free trade' hoaxes to make them 'profitable' for importers and labor racketeers in the first place.

Since when did Democrats suddenly become 'free market' loons, anyway? Oh yeah, right when their puppet masters told them to.

Since when did Republicans become protectionists.

 

[Flopper]

Wanna buy laundry equipment for your home? Good luck paying more than you used to, thanks to Donald J. Trump and his tariffs.
In this thread, we will come up with ideas as to how to lower said prices again:
Opinion | Trump’s tariffs are already backfiring

And Harley says they plan to move operation to EU and Trump threatens them with more taxes.

The first causalities of Trumps tariff war is 60 workers at Mid-Continent Nail, America's largest nail manufacturer. They lost their jobs on June 15 at a factory in a part of Missouri that voted overwhelmingly for Trump. The whole company could be out of business by Labor Day. There will be more to come, a lot more as the Trump war expands.

lol 60? We lost millions under the Bush-Clinton NAFTA scam. Milloins more under Carter's Favored Nation scam for Red China, hundreds of thousands to Viet Nam alone.

You don't find it odd that 'globalists' loves them some communist countries with police states?

Did NAFTA cost or create jobs? Both

 

[Correll]

Wanna buy laundry equipment for your home? Good luck paying more than you used to, thanks to Donald J. Trump and his tariffs.
In this thread, we will come up with ideas as to how to lower said prices again:
Opinion | Trump’s tariffs are already backfiring

And Harley says they plan to move operation to EU and Trump threatens them with more taxes.

The first causalities of Trumps tariff war is 60 workers at Mid-Continent Nail, America's largest nail manufacturer. They lost their jobs on June 15 at a factory in a part of Missouri that voted overwhelmingly for Trump. The whole company could be out of business by Labor Day. There will be more to come, a lot more as the Trump war expands.

Seems that trade balances do matter. At least the Europeans seem to think so.


Are you still denying it?

 

[Correll]

REally? Cause I've seen very cheap products from far, far away.

Made with really cheap labor. We don't have that advantage here. But there are certain products that aren't imported like paper. Even with cheap labor the value of a container of paper is not enough to be imported as the container costs are too high.

I thought robots were replacing everyone. Do Chinese robots work cheaper than American robots?

Less robots used with lots of really cheap labor.

What's your answer? Do we give up on the very idea of improving things for the working poor and Middle Class?

No, but you don't do something we know doesn't work. Bush just tried steel tariffs, we lost jobs. If you care about the middle class you should wonder how this happened:
CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours
According to a report from the Economic Policy Institute, the average CEO pay is 271 times the nearly $58,000 annual average pay of the typical American worker.

Although the 271:1 ratio is high, it's still not as high as in previous years. In 2015, CEOs made 286 times the salary of a typical worker and 299 times more in 2014. Compare that to 1978, when CEO earnings were roughly 30 times the typical worker's salary.

And how about that war on Unions? Have you noticed with their decline, so goes the middle class?
Middle-Class Decline Mirrors The Fall Of Unions In One Chart | HuffPost

1. ONe small limited example does not disprove a strategy.

2. How does CEO pay matter to middle class wages? What is the cause and effect?

3. Unions? What have unions done positive in the last 40 years?

 

[Correll]

Made with really cheap labor. We don't have that advantage here. But there are certain products that aren't imported like paper. Even with cheap labor the value of a container of paper is not enough to be imported as the container costs are too high.

I thought robots were replacing everyone. Do Chinese robots work cheaper than American robots?

Less robots used with lots of really cheap labor.

What's your answer? Do we give up on the very idea of improving things for the working poor and Middle Class?

No, but you don't do something we know doesn't work. Bush just tried steel tariffs, we lost jobs. If you care about the middle class you should wonder how this happened:
CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours
According to a report from the Economic Policy Institute, the average CEO pay is 271 times the nearly $58,000 annual average pay of the typical American worker.

Although the 271:1 ratio is high, it's still not as high as in previous years. In 2015, CEOs made 286 times the salary of a typical worker and 299 times more in 2014. Compare that to 1978, when CEO earnings were roughly 30 times the typical worker's salary.

And how about that war on Unions? Have you noticed with their decline, so goes the middle class?
Middle-Class Decline Mirrors The Fall Of Unions In One Chart | HuffPost

Unions, taxes and regulations are what chased jobs out of the country in the first place. Left to unions, they would chase out the rest.

You and I own widget factories. We are competitors. You sell more widgets than I do, so I want to hire a CEO that will change all that. The CEO wanted you to pay him 5 mil a year, but you refused and gave the money to your labor. I decide to pay that CEO the five mil, and in a couple of years, I get 50% of your customers because of his skill, connections, and experience.

That's how it works in business. Not just business, but in sports and entertainment as well. You are paid by your past performances, and the highest bidder gets your services.

I think you are underestimating the impact of large institutions owning large amounts of stock and not being involved in providing needed oversight of management.


Plenty of incompetent CEO out there, who get paid, just because the Board are a bunch of inbred fools.

 

[Andylusion]

The US economy is all smoke and mirrors.

Huh? Wuh? Yeah, it's all a myth.... all that wealth we're creating, that other countries are not.... which is why no country wants to be in the US market...... you know.... except for all of them. They can clearly see the smoke and mirrors they want.

Then why do over 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour?
I was on Wall Street in the early 80s.
Reagan started fixing the economy to exclude minorities.
Now we have an albatross around our necks...a very expensive albatross.

I am hoping Trump's vision of bringing jobs and opportunities back to the US pays off.

...... wut? 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour? Are you crazy?

Barely 15% of Americans make $9/hour or less.

Middle-class Americans made more money last year than ever before

The median income in $57K. Who did you let mess you up in the head?

And how did Reagan 'exclude' minorities? Do tell which specific law, excluded minorities. Are you nuts?

I was going to post the reference showing that the average American makes about $25 an hour but his/her/its post was so stupid I decided to not even bother. You can't fix stupidity like that.

Average?
You mean the ones who live in LA, Detroit and NYC and make $9.00/hour.
I hate Rush Limbaugh rolled up statistics.

You mean you hate facts. Yeah, we gathered that.
IF you want to present your own evidence, we'll consider it. If all you are going to do, is insult evidence you obviously can't contradict..... then.... We'll find someone more intelligent to talk to.

 

[Indeependent]

Huh? Wuh? Yeah, it's all a myth.... all that wealth we're creating, that other countries are not.... which is why no country wants to be in the US market...... you know.... except for all of them. They can clearly see the smoke and mirrors they want.

Then why do over 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour?
I was on Wall Street in the early 80s.
Reagan started fixing the economy to exclude minorities.
Now we have an albatross around our necks...a very expensive albatross.

I am hoping Trump's vision of bringing jobs and opportunities back to the US pays off.

...... wut? 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour? Are you crazy?

Barely 15% of Americans make $9/hour or less.

Middle-class Americans made more money last year than ever before

The median income in $57K. Who did you let mess you up in the head?

And how did Reagan 'exclude' minorities? Do tell which specific law, excluded minorities. Are you nuts?

I was going to post the reference showing that the average American makes about $25 an hour but his/her/its post was so stupid I decided to not even bother. You can't fix stupidity like that.

Average?
You mean the ones who live in LA, Detroit and NYC and make $9.00/hour.
I hate Rush Limbaugh rolled up statistics.

You mean you hate facts. Yeah, we gathered that.
IF you want to present your own evidence, we'll consider it. If all you are going to do, is insult evidence you obviously can't contradict..... then.... We'll find someone more intelligent to talk to.

Aren't you the guy who lives in the middle of nowhere?
Average is bullshit.
If you were in a room with Mark Zuckerberg would your personal wealth suddenly go into the millions?
You're smarter than that.

 

[Flash]

The US economy is all smoke and mirrors.

Huh? Wuh? Yeah, it's all a myth.... all that wealth we're creating, that other countries are not.... which is why no country wants to be in the US market...... you know.... except for all of them. They can clearly see the smoke and mirrors they want.

Then why do over 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour?
I was on Wall Street in the early 80s.
Reagan started fixing the economy to exclude minorities.
Now we have an albatross around our necks...a very expensive albatross.

I am hoping Trump's vision of bringing jobs and opportunities back to the US pays off.

...... wut? 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour? Are you crazy?

Barely 15% of Americans make $9/hour or less.

Middle-class Americans made more money last year than ever before

The median income in $57K. Who did you let mess you up in the head?

And how did Reagan 'exclude' minorities? Do tell which specific law, excluded minorities. Are you nuts?

I was going to post the reference showing that the average American makes about $25 an hour but his/her/its post was so stupid I decided to not even bother. You can't fix stupidity like that.

Average?
You mean the ones who live in LA, Detroit and NYC and make $9.00/hour.
I hate Rush Limbaugh rolled up statistics.

You are really confused.

Here are the BLS stats: (hint: it ain't $9/hr you moron)

This is the average for about 130 million employed Americans.

Table B-3. Average hourly and weekly earnings of all employees on private nonfarm payrolls by industry sector, seasonally adjusted

May
2018(p)

$26.92

 

[Indeependent]

Huh? Wuh? Yeah, it's all a myth.... all that wealth we're creating, that other countries are not.... which is why no country wants to be in the US market...... you know.... except for all of them. They can clearly see the smoke and mirrors they want.

Then why do over 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour?
I was on Wall Street in the early 80s.
Reagan started fixing the economy to exclude minorities.
Now we have an albatross around our necks...a very expensive albatross.

I am hoping Trump's vision of bringing jobs and opportunities back to the US pays off.

...... wut? 98% of Americans make $9.00/hour? Are you crazy?

Barely 15% of Americans make $9/hour or less.

Middle-class Americans made more money last year than ever before

The median income in $57K. Who did you let mess you up in the head?

And how did Reagan 'exclude' minorities? Do tell which specific law, excluded minorities. Are you nuts?

I was going to post the reference showing that the average American makes about $25 an hour but his/her/its post was so stupid I decided to not even bother. You can't fix stupidity like that.

Average?
You mean the ones who live in LA, Detroit and NYC and make $9.00/hour.
I hate Rush Limbaugh rolled up statistics.

You are really confused.

Here are the BLS stats: (hint: it ain't $9/hr you moron)

This is the average for about 130 million employed Americans.

Table B-3. Average hourly and weekly earnings of all employees on private nonfarm payrolls by industry sector, seasonally adjusted

May
2018(p)

$26.92

Go and tell everybody working in all the restaurants in your town how they're making $25.00/hour.
I deal with reality, not ideological bullshit.