Was Trump right? Were there Muslims celebrating 9/11 attacks in New Jersey?

[TemplarKormac]

The passage of time doesn't "invalidate" anything, but it makes it a lot harder to believe something that there's not a single shred of evidence for, and would have been big news 14 years ago, and that this guy waited until 14 years later to talk about it, conveniently soon after Trump made his asinine comments.

You waited 14 years to tell me, not only now, but on one other previous occasion on this forum, that you were there on 9/11. And since you won't provide proof, whilst asserting you have proof, there is no proof you were there. That is all I can discern from that.

The reason I don't dispute the veracity of the tweet in the picture I posted, is because the person was quite specific about where he was and what he was doing at that time. Not simply "I was there and I saw it." He gave details and specifics.

Do you believe every "specific" looking tweet you read, or only the ones that confirm your biases?

You know, you're bent on calling me biased, but not on disproving me. I remember being called down by you in some thread long past about using genetic arguments. I attacked your source without investigating the claim, or rebutting the argument you made. I summarily dismissed your argument due to the false presumption of your biases. Thus a genetic argument was born.

It's not up to me to "disprove" you. It's up to you to "prove" you.

Which you haven't done.

I have to sign off for a while, I've got some work to take care of. But I'll be back on later.

Later man. Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[NYcarbineer]

If X number of Muslims cheered 9/11,

how many of those who didn't cheer it are we justified to exterminate?

Give us a ballpark figure...

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The passage of time doesn't "invalidate" anything, but it makes it a lot harder to believe something that there's not a single shred of evidence for, and would have been big news 14 years ago, and that this guy waited until 14 years later to talk about it, conveniently soon after Trump made his asinine comments.

You waited 14 years to tell me, not only now, but on one other previous occasion on this forum, that you were there on 9/11. And since you won't provide proof, whilst asserting you have proof, there is no proof you were there. That is all I can discern from that.

The reason I don't dispute the veracity of the tweet in the picture I posted, is because the person was quite specific about where he was and what he was doing at that time. Not simply "I was there and I saw it." He gave details and specifics.

Do you believe every "specific" looking tweet you read, or only the ones that confirm your biases?

You know, you're bent on calling me biased, but not on disproving me. I remember being called down by you in some thread long past about using genetic arguments. I attacked your source without investigating the claim, or rebutting the argument you made. I summarily dismissed your argument due to the false presumption of your biases. Thus a genetic argument was born.

It's not up to me to "disprove" you. It's up to you to "prove" you.

Which you haven't done.

I have to sign off for a while, I've got some work to take care of. But I'll be back on later.

Later man. Happy Thanksgiving!

You as well.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Only butthurt, whiny right-wingers think you can sue someone for calling you a liar anonymously on the internet.

Then why do members of this forum get banned for making false statements about other members?

Well, first of all, no one has ever been banned for "making false statements about other members".

Secondly, the rules of this board aren't a court of law, anyway.

Well, you're wrong about that. I happen to know of one.

No, you don't. You only think you do.

I've been a moderator for much of your time on this board, and I can say for certain that no one has ever been banned simply for "making false statements about another poster".

As you can clearly see, "lying about other posters" happens on this board every single day, and if we banned anyone for that, we'd pretty much have to ban everyone.

They were banned for making slanderous statements. If eye claim your eyes are pink, that's a false statement about you, but it's not slanderous. If I accuse you of being a child molester, that's a slanderous statement. I've been banned for even hinting that someone was a child molester, so your claim is obvious bullshit.

Read the forum rules, infant.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Only butthurt, whiny right-wingers think you can sue someone for calling you a liar anonymously on the internet.

Then why do members of this forum get banned for making false statements about other members?

Well, first of all, no one has ever been banned for "making false statements about other members".

Secondly, the rules of this board aren't a court of law, anyway.

Well, you're wrong about that. I happen to know of one.

No, you don't. You only think you do.

I've been a moderator for much of your time on this board, and I can say for certain that no one has ever been banned simply for "making false statements about another poster".

As you can clearly see, "lying about other posters" happens on this board every single day, and if we banned anyone for that, we'd pretty much have to ban everyone.

They were banned for making slanderous statements. If eye claim your eyes are pink, that's a false statement about you, but it's not slanderous. If I accuse you of being a child molester, that's a slanderous statement. I've been banned for even hinting that someone was a child molester, so your claim is obvious bullshit.

You were not banned for "slander", but for violating the rules of this board, which specifically prohibit accusing people of pedophilia. Glad I could clear that up for you.

 

[bripat9643]

Then why do members of this forum get banned for making false statements about other members?

Well, first of all, no one has ever been banned for "making false statements about other members".

Secondly, the rules of this board aren't a court of law, anyway.

Well, you're wrong about that. I happen to know of one.

No, you don't. You only think you do.

I've been a moderator for much of your time on this board, and I can say for certain that no one has ever been banned simply for "making false statements about another poster".

As you can clearly see, "lying about other posters" happens on this board every single day, and if we banned anyone for that, we'd pretty much have to ban everyone.

They were banned for making slanderous statements. If eye claim your eyes are pink, that's a false statement about you, but it's not slanderous. If I accuse you of being a child molester, that's a slanderous statement. I've been banned for even hinting that someone was a child molester, so your claim is obvious bullshit.

Read the forum rules, infant.

Perhaps you would quote the text that disproves my statement.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Well, first of all, no one has ever been banned for "making false statements about other members".

Secondly, the rules of this board aren't a court of law, anyway.

Well, you're wrong about that. I happen to know of one.

No, you don't. You only think you do.

I've been a moderator for much of your time on this board, and I can say for certain that no one has ever been banned simply for "making false statements about another poster".

As you can clearly see, "lying about other posters" happens on this board every single day, and if we banned anyone for that, we'd pretty much have to ban everyone.

They were banned for making slanderous statements. If eye claim your eyes are pink, that's a false statement about you, but it's not slanderous. If I accuse you of being a child molester, that's a slanderous statement. I've been banned for even hinting that someone was a child molester, so your claim is obvious bullshit.

Read the forum rules, infant.

Perhaps you would quote the text that disproves my statement.

Perhaps you should read the rules.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Then why do members of this forum get banned for making false statements about other members?

Well, first of all, no one has ever been banned for "making false statements about other members".

Secondly, the rules of this board aren't a court of law, anyway.

Well, you're wrong about that. I happen to know of one.

No, you don't. You only think you do.

I've been a moderator for much of your time on this board, and I can say for certain that no one has ever been banned simply for "making false statements about another poster".

As you can clearly see, "lying about other posters" happens on this board every single day, and if we banned anyone for that, we'd pretty much have to ban everyone.

They were banned for making slanderous statements. If eye claim your eyes are pink, that's a false statement about you, but it's not slanderous. If I accuse you of being a child molester, that's a slanderous statement. I've been banned for even hinting that someone was a child molester, so your claim is obvious bullshit.

You were not banned for "slander", but for violating the rules of this board, which specifically prohibit accusing people of pedophilia. Glad I could clear that up for you.

It's a hoot that around here sometimes even Captain Obvious has a legitimate function.

 

[bripat9643]

Then why do members of this forum get banned for making false statements about other members?

Well, first of all, no one has ever been banned for "making false statements about other members".

Secondly, the rules of this board aren't a court of law, anyway.

Well, you're wrong about that. I happen to know of one.

No, you don't. You only think you do.

I've been a moderator for much of your time on this board, and I can say for certain that no one has ever been banned simply for "making false statements about another poster".

As you can clearly see, "lying about other posters" happens on this board every single day, and if we banned anyone for that, we'd pretty much have to ban everyone.

They were banned for making slanderous statements. If eye claim your eyes are pink, that's a false statement about you, but it's not slanderous. If I accuse you of being a child molester, that's a slanderous statement. I've been banned for even hinting that someone was a child molester, so your claim is obvious bullshit.

You were not banned for "slander", but for violating the rules of this board, which specifically prohibit accusing people of pedophilia. Glad I could clear that up for you.

ROFL! The reason it's against the rules is because other bulletin boards have been sued for allowing slanderous statements to remain on the board.

Who do you think you're fooling?

 

[bripat9643]

Well, first of all, no one has ever been banned for "making false statements about other members".

Secondly, the rules of this board aren't a court of law, anyway.

Well, you're wrong about that. I happen to know of one.

No, you don't. You only think you do.

I've been a moderator for much of your time on this board, and I can say for certain that no one has ever been banned simply for "making false statements about another poster".

As you can clearly see, "lying about other posters" happens on this board every single day, and if we banned anyone for that, we'd pretty much have to ban everyone.

They were banned for making slanderous statements. If eye claim your eyes are pink, that's a false statement about you, but it's not slanderous. If I accuse you of being a child molester, that's a slanderous statement. I've been banned for even hinting that someone was a child molester, so your claim is obvious bullshit.

You were not banned for "slander", but for violating the rules of this board, which specifically prohibit accusing people of pedophilia. Glad I could clear that up for you.

It's a hoot that around here sometimes even Captain Obvious has a legitimate function.

The only function you perform is as the perfect example of a complete and utter fool.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Was Trump right? Were there Muslims celebrating 9/11 attacks in New Jersey?"

No, Trump is wrong, Trump is a liar.

And that many on the right continue to attempt to propagate this lie comes as no surprise.

 

[bripat9643]

"Was Trump right? Were there Muslims celebrating 9/11 attacks in New Jersey?"

No, Trump is wrong, Trump is a liar.

And that many on the right continue to attempt to propagate this lie comes as no surprise.

So far it looks like Trumps critics are the liars. Their accusations have zero evidence to support them.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Well, you're wrong about that. I happen to know of one.

No, you don't. You only think you do.

I've been a moderator for much of your time on this board, and I can say for certain that no one has ever been banned simply for "making false statements about another poster".

As you can clearly see, "lying about other posters" happens on this board every single day, and if we banned anyone for that, we'd pretty much have to ban everyone.

They were banned for making slanderous statements. If eye claim your eyes are pink, that's a false statement about you, but it's not slanderous. If I accuse you of being a child molester, that's a slanderous statement. I've been banned for even hinting that someone was a child molester, so your claim is obvious bullshit.

You were not banned for "slander", but for violating the rules of this board, which specifically prohibit accusing people of pedophilia. Glad I could clear that up for you.

It's a hoot that around here sometimes even Captain Obvious has a legitimate function.

The only function you perform is as the perfect example of a complete and utter fool.

Read the rules, Corky.

 

[LoneLaugher]

This was just one of many accounts from that day, from actual people on the ground:

Trump sycophants will lie for their pathological lying master.

So you can't disprove it. Such colorful language, too.

You know better than asking anyone to "disprove" events that happened 14 years ago.

It's up to you guys to prove it, not for us to disprove it.

What makes you think he knows better?

Serious question.

 

[Coyote]

Info Wars is something I never cite, but for some ill educated persons on this thread, like yourself, I'll cite it just for you:

I Live In Jersey And Trump Is Right: Muslims DID Celebrate On 9/11 In NJ . . . We Saw It!

That reminds me of the Salem witch trials. A lot of people claimed to have seen things.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...check-trump-carson-911-celebrations/76337734/

Trump, Carson on 9/11 ‘Celebrations’

The Post story said that Jersey City police detained “a number of people” who were “allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding a tailgate-style party” in Jersey City. That allegation was unattributed and unverified. Even if it did happen, and there is no evidence of it, the celebrating was not on TV and did not involve “thousands and thousands of people.”


The Washington Post Fact Checker talked to both reporters on the Post story cited by Trump, and neither could recall if the allegations about the tailgate-style celebration were verified. “I specifically visited the Jersey City building and neighborhood where the celebrations were purported to have happened,” said Fredrick Kunkle, one of the Post reporters on that story. “But I could never verify that report.”


What’s clear to us — and should be to Trump — is that there were no widespread televised celebrations in New Jersey on 9/11. In fact, what Trump described would have been big news, and the reporters at the Daily News, Star-Ledger and elsewhere who tried and failed to track down rumors of 9/11 celebrations could have just turned on the TV to get their story.
​

Fact-checking Trump's claim that thousands in New Jersey cheered when World Trade Center tumbled

Urban myth


We conducted an exhaustive search of newspaper and television transcripts on LexisNexis, looking for reports from September 2001 through December 2001 that made any mention of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating the 9/11 attacks.


Regarding Jersey City, which Trump mentioned specifically, we found two uncorroborated and unsourced mentions. Neither begins to approach the scale Trump described.


The Associated Press, on Sept. 17, 2001, described "rumors of rooftop celebrations of the attack by Muslims" in Jersey City. But the same report said those rumors were "unfounded."


The Washington Post, on Sept. 18, 2001, published an article that claimed "law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river." The Post story includes no source for this information, and we found no evidence that any of these allegations ever stuck.

A more rampant rumor of Muslim or Arab-Americans cheering the attacks centered around nearby Paterson, N.J. But that turned out to be just a rumor, spawned by chain emails and perpetuated by shock jock Howard Stern’s radio show.

The Star-Ledger reported that as the rumors spread, "Paterson police rushed to South Main Street, the center of the city's Middle Eastern community."

"When we got there, they were all in prayer," Paterson Police Chief Lawrence Spagnola said.

Three percent of New Jersey residents are Muslim -- the highest of any state -- according to Pew Research Center. Suspected 9/11 terrorists had ties to Jersey City and Paterson. But there is no conclusive evidence that any New Jersey residents celebrated the attacks, and there is no evidence whatsoever of any demonstrations where "thousands and thousands of people" cheered.

Nor is there any evidence Trump saw these events play out in any way, be it on TV or in person. We reached out to Trump’s campaign but didn’t hear back.

What we did find are many stories of Muslims living in New Jersey speaking out against the attacks and bracing themselves for anti-Muslim backlash. For example, Paterson residents put up a banner on the city’s main street that said "The Muslim Community Does Not Support Terrorism.''

Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop responded to Trump’s statement on Twitter, saying Trump "has memory issues or willfully distorts the truth."

 

[theDoctorisIn]

This was just one of many accounts from that day, from actual people on the ground:

Trump sycophants will lie for their pathological lying master.

So you can't disprove it. Such colorful language, too.

You know better than asking anyone to "disprove" events that happened 14 years ago.

It's up to you guys to prove it, not for us to disprove it.

What makes you think he knows better?

Serious question.

'Cause I like TK. I think he's a good dude, even though occasionally I find myself beating my head against the wall in frustration while arguing with him. I've found him to be polite - at least politer than I am - intelligent and generally not an asshole. And I often find that by the end of a conversation, I've gotten through to him and he at least understands the argument I'm trying to make, and seriously considers it.

That is more than can be said of most posters on both sides of the aisle.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Info Wars is something I never cite, but for some ill educated persons on this thread, like yourself, I'll cite it just for you:

I Live In Jersey And Trump Is Right: Muslims DID Celebrate On 9/11 In NJ . . . We Saw It!

That reminds me of the Salem witch trials. A lot of people claimed to have seen things.

Fact check: Trump, Carson on 9/11 ‘celebrations’

Trump, Carson on 9/11 ‘Celebrations’

The Post story said that Jersey City police detained “a number of people” who were “allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding a tailgate-style party” in Jersey City. That allegation was unattributed and unverified. Even if it did happen, and there is no evidence of it, the celebrating was not on TV and did not involve “thousands and thousands of people.”


The Washington Post Fact Checker talked to both reporters on the Post story cited by Trump, and neither could recall if the allegations about the tailgate-style celebration were verified. “I specifically visited the Jersey City building and neighborhood where the celebrations were purported to have happened,” said Fredrick Kunkle, one of the Post reporters on that story. “But I could never verify that report.”


What’s clear to us — and should be to Trump — is that there were no widespread televised celebrations in New Jersey on 9/11. In fact, what Trump described would have been big news, and the reporters at the Daily News, Star-Ledger and elsewhere who tried and failed to track down rumors of 9/11 celebrations could have just turned on the TV to get their story.
​

Fact-checking Trump's claim that thousands in New Jersey cheered when World Trade Center tumbled

Urban myth


We conducted an exhaustive search of newspaper and television transcripts on LexisNexis, looking for reports from September 2001 through December 2001 that made any mention of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating the 9/11 attacks.


Regarding Jersey City, which Trump mentioned specifically, we found two uncorroborated and unsourced mentions. Neither begins to approach the scale Trump described.


The Associated Press, on Sept. 17, 2001, described "rumors of rooftop celebrations of the attack by Muslims" in Jersey City. But the same report said those rumors were "unfounded."


The Washington Post, on Sept. 18, 2001, published an article that claimed "law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river." The Post story includes no source for this information, and we found no evidence that any of these allegations ever stuck.

A more rampant rumor of Muslim or Arab-Americans cheering the attacks centered around nearby Paterson, N.J. But that turned out to be just a rumor, spawned by chain emails and perpetuated by shock jock Howard Stern’s radio show.

The Star-Ledger reported that as the rumors spread, "Paterson police rushed to South Main Street, the center of the city's Middle Eastern community."

"When we got there, they were all in prayer," Paterson Police Chief Lawrence Spagnola said.

Three percent of New Jersey residents are Muslim -- the highest of any state -- according to Pew Research Center. Suspected 9/11 terrorists had ties to Jersey City and Paterson. But there is no conclusive evidence that any New Jersey residents celebrated the attacks, and there is no evidence whatsoever of any demonstrations where "thousands and thousands of people" cheered.

Nor is there any evidence Trump saw these events play out in any way, be it on TV or in person. We reached out to Trump’s campaign but didn’t hear back.

What we did find are many stories of Muslims living in New Jersey speaking out against the attacks and bracing themselves for anti-Muslim backlash. For example, Paterson residents put up a banner on the city’s main street that said "The Muslim Community Does Not Support Terrorism.''

Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop responded to Trump’s statement on Twitter, saying Trump "has memory issues or willfully distorts the truth."

In the face of superior evidence, I will get my mea culpa out of the way. Yes, I'm wrong, and Coyote whipped me here. I normally consider the WaPo to be a respectable source of relatively unbiased news information (stress on "relatively").

I'm generally not given to conspiracies (by the way, Doc, Coyote, you can move this thread there if you like), but I was bored beyond belief. Gaming and watching anime gets boring after a while. Playing around with arguments from both sides is intriguing. But... I got sucked in here. So I will kindly defer to the reality of the matter.

Happy Thanksgiving folks!

This thread will self destruct in

3...

2...

1...

 

[LoneLaugher]

This was just one of many accounts from that day, from actual people on the ground:

Trump sycophants will lie for their pathological lying master.

So you can't disprove it. Such colorful language, too.

You know better than asking anyone to "disprove" events that happened 14 years ago.

It's up to you guys to prove it, not for us to disprove it.

What makes you think he knows better?

Serious question.

'Cause I like TK. I think he's a good dude, even though occasionally I find myself beating my head against the wall in frustration while arguing with him. I've found him to be polite - at least politer than I am - intelligent and generally not an asshole. And I often find that by the end of a conversation, I've gotten through to him and he at least understands the argument I'm trying to make, and seriously considers it.

That is more than can be said of most posters on both sides of the aisle.

There is no doubt about it. You are one of the kindest, gentlest people here. Your tolerance for putting up with bloviating is commendable.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Info Wars is something I never cite, but for some ill educated persons on this thread, like yourself, I'll cite it just for you:

I Live In Jersey And Trump Is Right: Muslims DID Celebrate On 9/11 In NJ . . . We Saw It!

That reminds me of the Salem witch trials. A lot of people claimed to have seen things.

Fact check: Trump, Carson on 9/11 ‘celebrations’

Trump, Carson on 9/11 ‘Celebrations’

The Post story said that Jersey City police detained “a number of people” who were “allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding a tailgate-style party” in Jersey City. That allegation was unattributed and unverified. Even if it did happen, and there is no evidence of it, the celebrating was not on TV and did not involve “thousands and thousands of people.”


The Washington Post Fact Checker talked to both reporters on the Post story cited by Trump, and neither could recall if the allegations about the tailgate-style celebration were verified. “I specifically visited the Jersey City building and neighborhood where the celebrations were purported to have happened,” said Fredrick Kunkle, one of the Post reporters on that story. “But I could never verify that report.”


What’s clear to us — and should be to Trump — is that there were no widespread televised celebrations in New Jersey on 9/11. In fact, what Trump described would have been big news, and the reporters at the Daily News, Star-Ledger and elsewhere who tried and failed to track down rumors of 9/11 celebrations could have just turned on the TV to get their story.
​

Fact-checking Trump's claim that thousands in New Jersey cheered when World Trade Center tumbled

Urban myth


We conducted an exhaustive search of newspaper and television transcripts on LexisNexis, looking for reports from September 2001 through December 2001 that made any mention of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating the 9/11 attacks.


Regarding Jersey City, which Trump mentioned specifically, we found two uncorroborated and unsourced mentions. Neither begins to approach the scale Trump described.


The Associated Press, on Sept. 17, 2001, described "rumors of rooftop celebrations of the attack by Muslims" in Jersey City. But the same report said those rumors were "unfounded."


The Washington Post, on Sept. 18, 2001, published an article that claimed "law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river." The Post story includes no source for this information, and we found no evidence that any of these allegations ever stuck.

A more rampant rumor of Muslim or Arab-Americans cheering the attacks centered around nearby Paterson, N.J. But that turned out to be just a rumor, spawned by chain emails and perpetuated by shock jock Howard Stern’s radio show.

The Star-Ledger reported that as the rumors spread, "Paterson police rushed to South Main Street, the center of the city's Middle Eastern community."

"When we got there, they were all in prayer," Paterson Police Chief Lawrence Spagnola said.

Three percent of New Jersey residents are Muslim -- the highest of any state -- according to Pew Research Center. Suspected 9/11 terrorists had ties to Jersey City and Paterson. But there is no conclusive evidence that any New Jersey residents celebrated the attacks, and there is no evidence whatsoever of any demonstrations where "thousands and thousands of people" cheered.

Nor is there any evidence Trump saw these events play out in any way, be it on TV or in person. We reached out to Trump’s campaign but didn’t hear back.

What we did find are many stories of Muslims living in New Jersey speaking out against the attacks and bracing themselves for anti-Muslim backlash. For example, Paterson residents put up a banner on the city’s main street that said "The Muslim Community Does Not Support Terrorism.''

Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop responded to Trump’s statement on Twitter, saying Trump "has memory issues or willfully distorts the truth."

In the face of superior evidence, I will get my mea culpa out of the way. Yes, I'm wrong, and Coyote whipped me here. I normally consider the WaPo to be a respectable source of relatively unbiased news information (stress on "relatively").

I'm generally not given to conspiracies (by the way, Doc, Coyote, you can move this thread there if you like), but I was bored beyond belief. Gaming and watching anime gets boring after a while. Playing around with arguments from both sides is intriguing. But... I got sucked in here. So I will kindly defer to the reality of the matter.

Happy Thanksgiving folks!

This thread will self destruct in

3...

2...

1...

Why are you pretending that you had not been previously exposed to the evidence which Coyote presented in that post? A meaningful mea culpa requires absolute honesty.

 

[Coyote]

Info Wars is something I never cite, but for some ill educated persons on this thread, like yourself, I'll cite it just for you:

I Live In Jersey And Trump Is Right: Muslims DID Celebrate On 9/11 In NJ . . . We Saw It!

That reminds me of the Salem witch trials. A lot of people claimed to have seen things.

Fact check: Trump, Carson on 9/11 ‘celebrations’

Trump, Carson on 9/11 ‘Celebrations’

The Post story said that Jersey City police detained “a number of people” who were “allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding a tailgate-style party” in Jersey City. That allegation was unattributed and unverified. Even if it did happen, and there is no evidence of it, the celebrating was not on TV and did not involve “thousands and thousands of people.”


The Washington Post Fact Checker talked to both reporters on the Post story cited by Trump, and neither could recall if the allegations about the tailgate-style celebration were verified. “I specifically visited the Jersey City building and neighborhood where the celebrations were purported to have happened,” said Fredrick Kunkle, one of the Post reporters on that story. “But I could never verify that report.”


What’s clear to us — and should be to Trump — is that there were no widespread televised celebrations in New Jersey on 9/11. In fact, what Trump described would have been big news, and the reporters at the Daily News, Star-Ledger and elsewhere who tried and failed to track down rumors of 9/11 celebrations could have just turned on the TV to get their story.
​

Fact-checking Trump's claim that thousands in New Jersey cheered when World Trade Center tumbled

Urban myth


We conducted an exhaustive search of newspaper and television transcripts on LexisNexis, looking for reports from September 2001 through December 2001 that made any mention of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating the 9/11 attacks.


Regarding Jersey City, which Trump mentioned specifically, we found two uncorroborated and unsourced mentions. Neither begins to approach the scale Trump described.


The Associated Press, on Sept. 17, 2001, described "rumors of rooftop celebrations of the attack by Muslims" in Jersey City. But the same report said those rumors were "unfounded."


The Washington Post, on Sept. 18, 2001, published an article that claimed "law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river." The Post story includes no source for this information, and we found no evidence that any of these allegations ever stuck.

A more rampant rumor of Muslim or Arab-Americans cheering the attacks centered around nearby Paterson, N.J. But that turned out to be just a rumor, spawned by chain emails and perpetuated by shock jock Howard Stern’s radio show.

The Star-Ledger reported that as the rumors spread, "Paterson police rushed to South Main Street, the center of the city's Middle Eastern community."

"When we got there, they were all in prayer," Paterson Police Chief Lawrence Spagnola said.

Three percent of New Jersey residents are Muslim -- the highest of any state -- according to Pew Research Center. Suspected 9/11 terrorists had ties to Jersey City and Paterson. But there is no conclusive evidence that any New Jersey residents celebrated the attacks, and there is no evidence whatsoever of any demonstrations where "thousands and thousands of people" cheered.

Nor is there any evidence Trump saw these events play out in any way, be it on TV or in person. We reached out to Trump’s campaign but didn’t hear back.

What we did find are many stories of Muslims living in New Jersey speaking out against the attacks and bracing themselves for anti-Muslim backlash. For example, Paterson residents put up a banner on the city’s main street that said "The Muslim Community Does Not Support Terrorism.''

Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop responded to Trump’s statement on Twitter, saying Trump "has memory issues or willfully distorts the truth."

In the face of superior evidence, I will get my mea culpa out of the way. Yes, I'm wrong, and Coyote whipped me here. I normally consider the WaPo to be a respectable source of relatively unbiased news information (stress on "relatively").

I'm generally not given to conspiracies (by the way, Doc, Coyote, you can move this thread there if you like), but I was bored beyond belief. Gaming and watching anime gets boring after a while. Playing around with arguments from both sides is intriguing. But... I got sucked in here. So I will kindly defer to the reality of the matter.

Happy Thanksgiving folks!

This thread will self destruct in

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It's an interesting topic to dissect down to the actual evidence. Immediately post 9/11 people were in a panic.

You're a good egg TK