Was Moses just high?

[Ravi]

Researcher: Moses was tripping at Mount Sinai
By Ofri Ilani

"And all the people perceived the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the voice of the horn, and the mountain smoking." Thus the book of Exodus describes the impressive moment of the giving of the Torah on Mount Sinai.

The "perceiving of the voices" has been interpreted endlessly since these words were first written. When Professor Benny Shanon, professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, reads the verse, he recalls a powerful hallucinatory experience he had when he visited the Amazon and drank a potion made from a plant called ayahuasca.
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"One of the things that happens when you drink the potion is a visual experience created via sounds," he says.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Lets see.... Rain forest ..... Barren Desert. Ya those are similar.

Drugged out intelligensia ...... Religious leader.... again, such a similar comparison.


Further the drug this "professor" took acted on just HIM. How exactly would Moses being high effect the multitude of his followers? Ohh wait, I know, he had them drink the kool aid first right?

 

[Ravi]

Touchy?

The same type of vision inducing drugs grow in the middle east. Drugs have been used by spiritual leaders in many cultures but not necessarily by their followers. It doesn't discount that he had the spiritual interaction, just an interesting bit of research.

 

[Shogun]

I firmly believe that the person who wrote Revelations was zoinked out of his fucking gourd... I don't know about Moses though. It really doesn't take psychedelics to wander in from the woods claiming that an angel told you where golded plates are burried that no one is allowed to see but conveys the north American adventures of jebus.... Isn't that right, RGS?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I firmly believe that the person who wrote Revelations was zoinked out of his fucking gourd... I don't know about Moses though. It really doesn't take psychedelics to wander in from the woods claiming that an angel told you where golded plates are burried that no one is allowed to see but conveys the north American adventures of jebus.... Isn't that right, RGS?

Except for the slight problem he had witnesses to the plates and the translations.....

 

[Shogun]

Except for the slight problem he had witnesses to the plates and the translations.....

hehehe..

yea... sure he did.


say.. where are those golden plates now, dude?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

hehehe..

yea... sure he did.


say.. where are those golden plates now, dude?

Who cares?

 

[AllieBaba]

The bible says that those who haven't accepted the Holy Spirit view faith as "foolishness" and it's true. Just as man speaks to men, so God only speaks to those who have the Holy Spirit within them. Those who don't just don't get it, and they won't until they ask Jesus to come into their hearts. THey don't even really have to believe it. It's just the asking that gets him there. From there it's nothing but up.

I find it laughable the extremes to which people will go to disprove that which is actually much easier to believe because of their hatred of the concept of God. THey'd rather make up a completely imaginary drug fest, for which there is less proof than there is for a supreme being, than actually concede that there MIGHT be a God, and he MIGHT have actually spoken to God and people might ACTUALLY have heard him.

Don't you ever wonder where all that creative hatred comes from? You might want to think it's "reason" or maybe "drugs" making you act irrationally.

Myself, I think it's the devil using morons to do his bidding.

 

[Larkinn]

The bible says that those who haven't accepted the Holy Spirit view faith as "foolishness" and it's true.

Actually there are lots of Buddhists, Hindus and those of other religions who haven't accepted the holy spirit and do not view faith as foolish.

Just as man speaks to men, so God only speaks to those who have the Holy Spirit within them. Those who don't just don't get it, and they won't until they ask Jesus to come into their hearts. THey don't even really have to believe it. It's just the asking that gets him there. From there it's nothing but up.

No, actually. Most people I know who have truly asked never "found" religion.

I find it laughable the extremes to which people will go to disprove that which is actually much easier to believe because of their hatred of the concept of God.

Oh, well, because something is easier to believe that makes it true.

THey'd rather make up a completely imaginary drug fest, for which there is less proof than there is for a supreme being, than actually concede that there MIGHT be a God, and he MIGHT have actually spoken to God and people might ACTUALLY have heard him.

And we MIGHT be in the Matrix. Watch out Neo!

Don't you ever wonder where all that creative hatred comes from? You might want to think it's "reason" or maybe "drugs" making you act irrationally.

Where the Hatred comes from? The Crusades. The Priest sex abuse scandal. Religious whackos who tell gays they are going to hell. Where was god then?

Myself, I think it's the devil using morons to do his bidding.

You disagree with me?...then you must be posessed! WhooooOooOOOOOo!!

 

[Ravi]

Where are you getting that this guy has some hatred of God?

 

[BrianH]

It's amazing how people can associate stuff to drugs... I can understand the logic that suggests that. "You take drugs, therfore, you see things."

So because you see things in your dreams, does that mean you take drugs?

But that is an argument that comes from an indivudual that either does not believe in the concept of God or is having trouble with the whole concept. As far as revelation goes, who said that the "guy" was "zoinked?" Is there some other book supported by facts that suggests this?
Could it possibly have been that the stuff you read in revelation is not the stuff that is described. The point behind revelations is that the phrophet is seeing into the future. Therefore, what other words would he have to describe the things that he sees? If he sees an army tank, to him its a fire-breathing beast. They lacked the vocabulary for the things that we have today, therfore, they explained it in the only ways that they could. Then again, the prophet could have been seeing things that aren't even invented yet. He may have been seeing further into the future than where we are now. I'm not going to say that what I am saying is the absolute truth, because I have no concrete evidence to support it. But it is a more viable explanation for someone who does believe in God and the writings in the Bible. There is also a degree of faith when it comes to believing in God. Have you ever seen a billion dollars in person? So how do you know it exists? Some of us have never seen the death camps that were used in the Holocaust, however, we have faith in our historians and take their word for it.

For the non-believers out there. In my opinion, it's not like it's going to hurt you to believe in God. If you don't believe in God, and it turns out that you're wrong, then you're damned to hell for eternity. However, if you do believe in God, and it turns out that God doesn't exist, then you find yourself where you are now and it doesn't really matter. So it's basically a win win situation if you astk me.

Also remember that there is a difference between religion and spirituality. I think it's completley irrelevant to make your decision that God isn't real because certain religions have abused their power at some point in time. "Priests molesting kids, the Crusades, etc..." Religion is man made, and anyone who reads the Bible will understand that. The Bible never points out the "right" church, or even says that you have to go every Sunday. Make sure that you know the difference between religion and spirituality.

 

[Ravi]

Brian, are you saying that if one pretends to believe in God then they get the same benefits as one who really believes in God?

I think you are taking the drug thing out of proportion, though I guess my thread title was responsible for that. Cultures for centuries have used drugs to aid their visions.

 

[BrianH]

I do agree that cultures have been taking drugs for centuries. I mean, check out our society today. However, I still havn't seen today's "druggies" write any interesting books about positive revelations that they've had (in regards to the human soul)

And I guess my statement about believing in God was a little vague also.

I guess my point about that is that why not have faith in God? Who says that you have to pretend? I guess it's a little more complicated than getting passed the pretend part. But my whole point of that statement was that whether you pretend, or believe it fully, it's a win win situation. For those who don't believe in an eternal afterlife, we will all die and rot in a box. That's really not anything to look forward to. But what if those people are wrong? They will be condemned. Ok so what if you believe in God and it turns out he does exist, then your saved. But if he doesn't exist, then it's no harm done and you're back where you started. I'm, in no way, suggesting that anyone pretend to believe in God, however, if pretending to believe in God actually opens the door for you really believing in God, I'm all for it.

There are alot of things in the Bible that are unanswered and illogical, however, it's the faith and sometimes personal experience that allows people who believe to keep believing. If it was all easily explainable, then there would be nothing wonderful about it.

There is, however, factual evidence that Jesus was a real person and did roam the middle-east speaking about God. Part of the Bible is a testament to what he did. It's a proven fact that he existed.

Don't let hypocritical and bigotrous radical chistians destroy your view of religion and christianity. I'm a Christian, but don't personally care for religion. IN my eyes, everyone's going for the same goal, they just have different ways of doing. (Catholics, Babtists, Muslims, Jews, etc...) There are alot of Christians out there who will not "persecute" you for not believing. There are radical Christians the same as their are radical Muslims.

As far as the drug part, I think it is a good topic worth discussing. I think there is good evidence of cultures using drugs, but I just don't think that their is any evidence at all to suggest the Moses was high or that the guy in revelations was "zoinked." I think it all boils down to personal opinion, and because everyone has a different opinion, we could argue about this for weeks. Which I guess is what this forum is all about. lol

 

[Shogun]

Who cares?

um, those of us calling shenanigans on hokey bullshit dogma when the follower of one cultish christian denomination jumps on a high horse while ignoring the comedy of his own faith?

 

[Shogun]

The bible says that those who haven't accepted the Holy Spirit view faith as "foolishness" and it's true. Just as man speaks to men, so God only speaks to those who have the Holy Spirit within them. Those who don't just don't get it, and they won't until they ask Jesus to come into their hearts. THey don't even really have to believe it. It's just the asking that gets him there. From there it's nothing but up.

I find it laughable the extremes to which people will go to disprove that which is actually much easier to believe because of their hatred of the concept of God. THey'd rather make up a completely imaginary drug fest, for which there is less proof than there is for a supreme being, than actually concede that there MIGHT be a God, and he MIGHT have actually spoken to God and people might ACTUALLY have heard him.

Don't you ever wonder where all that creative hatred comes from? You might want to think it's "reason" or maybe "drugs" making you act irrationally.

Myself, I think it's the devil using morons to do his bidding.

the DEBIL made me do eeet!


gosh, a play strait from witch burning 101.


Just so you know, my pact with satan came in the sleeve of a Slayer cd and was sanctified by the rolling of D&D dice.


In memory of the dimebag
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[Ravi]

Not a big Hunter S. Thompson fan?

Thanks for clearing that up. I can understand the concept of pretense leading to actual belief.

 

[Shogun]

Brian, are you saying that if one pretends to believe in God then they get the same benefits as one who really believes in God?

I think you are taking the drug thing out of proportion, though I guess my thread title was responsible for that. Cultures for centuries have used drugs to aid their visions.

no shit.. as if some anonymous "john" would be the first lunatic to SEEE THHHHEEE FUUUTUUUREEE with the aid of drugs. Clearly, this one was authentic whereas every previous similar argument by a worshiper of a greek or pagan god was just the debil sewing confusion.




I mean who the hell needs evidence of exactly that kind of causal relationship when there is some bowls of judgement to pretend is in our future. For crying out loud, who else got tired of this shit circa dec. 31 1999?

 

[Taomon]

Lets see.... Rain forest ..... Barren Desert. Ya those are similar.

Drugged out intelligensia ...... Religious leader.... again, such a similar comparison.


Further the drug this "professor" took acted on just HIM. How exactly would Moses being high effect the multitude of his followers? Ohh wait, I know, he had them drink the kool aid first right?

There is a very fine line between genius and madness. You have no idea which Moses was. Just because you agree with his rants does not mean he was genius or not crazy.

People follow very mad men when they believe their words.

 

[Shogun]

Not a big Hunter S. Thompson fan?

Thanks for clearing that up. I can understand the concept of pretense leading to actual belief.

No kidding... Or, as Bill Hicks would say


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[Taomon]

No kidding... Or, as Bill Hicks would say


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Hicks fucking rules!