warning : discussion of race in America, likely to be unpleasant

[Robert]

Attitude and action control my beliefs. Not all blacks are lazy and not all lazy people are black. When I am out on the street in Houston the attitude of some of the population is such that I can't help buy form an opinion on this person. My father told me once that all lady's are women but not all women are lady's. I have to give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I think this same thinking applies to the black/white issue.

Obama has set race relations back 50 years.

Obama has set race relations back 50 years.

The power of Divisive politics Obama has all but undone the work of a good many people in this regard.

 

[rightwinger]

Racism in America. Everyone says it's there. But not very many people will fess up to it. There was that couple in Alabama that picked me up hitch hiking. They were not ashamed of being racist. I asked them why they were racist. They said hey, Black people are just stupid and lazy. What about Miles Davis? They gave me Miles Davis.

But that's not most racism in America. Most people who consider themselves racists don't talk about it publicly, because they know it's not acceptable, except I guess in Alabama. I think that most racists today don't even consider themselves racist. And yet racism continues.

There is something in America that persistently disadvantages Black people. It happens all the time and everywhere, in thousands of ways, big and small. I would be interested to hear someone who is perceived as Black speak to this.

Color blindness seems to be popular nowadays. Just don't talk about race. I don't see very many Black people taking this view. It seems to be a comfortable thing for the privileged to think. And I don't agree. To be color blind is to deny that people who are perceived differently have had different experiences. It's a different country if you're Black. A much worse place to live.

I think that those who benefit from racism, and do nothing to dismantle it, are participating. They may not consider themselves racist. They may not even look at Black people differently from White people. But they are complacent. It's like buying a used bicycle for 20 bucks when it's worth 2000. You may not have stolen it. But if you're honest with yourself, you know that someone else did, and you're participating in the crime.

Racism is still here. It is not as open as it used to be, but it is below the surface. Still the nation has made great strides in the last 50 years and is more accepting of race, religion and sexuality. You could not have elected a half-breed black man with a Muslim name 20 years ago. You could not have discussed homosexual marriage or openly gay service members.

Blacks need to accept that there are racist people out there. You can't change hate. What blacks can change:
- The 70% of black children who are born to single mothers
- The lack of emphasis on education
- Black on Black crime
- The number of black males in prison
- The breakdown of the black family

The majority of the serious problems facing blacks are cultural and not racial. Black culture needs to change. And that can't be done by whites

 

[mudwhistle]

^^^"Mind you this was a Black man telling his people they and they alone are responsible."

False. Watch the end of the video. Also, I disagree with your point in general. That racism is dead. There are still active white supremacist groups, for christ' sake. Storm Front and Aryan Nation and all that. And those are just the fuckers who aren't ashamed to admit it. How many more people discriminate in little ways every day? And what about racial profiling by police?

^Could you try being non partisan for a little bit. Just give it a try. Bitch about someone on the right that you disagree with. Or maybe you should spend a post or two not bitching at all. Try saying something constructive.

You seem to confuse human nature with an deliberate act of institutional racism.

Racism, bigotry and all the other trigger words are nothing more than human nature it will never go away it will never change.

Racial profiling by Police LMAO!! WTF? you do know there are about the same number of white cops as black right.. are you calling the black officers racists?

We are what we are despite the lefts attempts to demonize everyone they disagree with.

Its a dead overused wedge issue that the left used as a tool nobody buys into it any longer.

Except Blacks and white libs.

 

[Avatar4321]

Actually, the conversation turned out to be pretty pleasant. I'm surprised. I think maybe I kinda forced everyone to be civil and nonpartisan.

Or maybe people aren't as bad as you seem to think we are.

But to your point. I think that color blind society is the end goal. For instance in King's speech, his dream. But that was in the future. He didn't try to give the whole speech from a color blind perspective.

If it's the goal, it's time to start living the goal. Goals are worthless if you don't bother achieving them.

Why do we need to talk about race? Because it is so central to our society, and that's not going to change if we ignore it. People are perceived differently. And then people are treated differently. So people have similar opportunities, similar obstacles. They end up in similar situations.

Central to our society? Hardly. In fact, race is one of the least central aspects to our society. It's a distraction from the real problems we face, problems which cut across racial lines like poverty, corruption, violence, etc.

This would happen whether we talked about it or not. Further more, it's not just a mistake. There are still those who are proudly racist. And they're not just going to stop because we stop talking about race. We have a responsibility to stop them, in word and in deed, and to do that we need to talk about it.

How do you intend to stop people who don't want to listen?

 

[signelect]

i Think that there needs to be the understanding that the racism issue is not a one way street. Black are every bit as racist as white. This is not an American issue and it is not new, this has been going on since people populated the earth. Remember the expression "white trash" this was coined by other whites, China has so many ethnic groups that with out the military and their form of government they would explode from within.

The reason we have the resentment against other races is that they don't behave the way we expect and we forget that we forgot to tell them what our expectation are so they have no chance.

 

[Wiseacre]

" There is something in America that persistently disadvantages Black people. "


I think to a large extent black people disadvantage black people. Their leadership is more interested in getting more power and money instead of using it as wisely as possible. A cultural paradigm shift is required, otherwise a hundred years from now they'll still be predominantly on the low edge of the economy.


I think that those who benefit from racism, and do nothing to dismantle it, are participating. They may not consider themselves racist. They may not even look at Black people differently from White people. But they are complacent. It's like buying a used bicycle for 20 bucks when it's worth 2000. You may not have stolen it. But if you're honest with yourself, you know that someone else did, and you're participating in the crime.


Not a lot of benefit from racism IMHO. And to suggest that those who are not actively dismantling racism are participating in it is ridiculous. Most of us have lives to live and families to take care of, and have no time to fix societies ills, which includes a lot more issues than racism. There is an inherent feeling in this country from it's inception that you fix your own problems. So why not stop obsessing about race and get on with making yourself a better person.


PS: this isn't politics, so why is this thread here?

 

[digger]

^^^"Mind you this was a Black man telling his people they and they alone are responsible."

False. Watch the end of the video. Also, I disagree with your point in general. That racism is dead. There are still active white supremacist groups, for christ' sake. Storm Front and Aryan Nation and all that. And those are just the fuckers who aren't ashamed to admit it. How many more people discriminate in little ways every day? And what about racial profiling by police?

^Could you try being non partisan for a little bit. Just give it a try. Bitch about someone on the right that you disagree with. Or maybe you should spend a post or two not bitching at all. Try saying something constructive.

You seem to confuse human nature with an deliberate act of institutional racism.

Racism, bigotry and all the other trigger words are nothing more than human nature it will never go away it will never change.

Racial profiling by Police LMAO!! WTF? you do know there are about the same number of white cops as black right.. are you calling the black officers racists?

We are what we are despite the lefts attempts to demonize everyone they disagree with.

Its a dead overused wedge issue that the left used as a tool nobody buys into it any longer.

You're not making a lot of sense here. it's a part of human nature that will never go away and never change. And at the same time it's a dead issue? How do those thought coincides?

Strangely enough, I disagree with both points. I'll give you that human nature is involved. but it changes all the time. Compare now to 50 years ago. To 200 years ago. Change. Hard to deny.

I dunno what to say about the other point. If you think it's a dead issue, there's nothing much I can say to you about it. Why are you in here talking about it if it's a dead issue to you?

You think 13% of the population makes up 50% of the police force? link? Side note : interestingly, Black cops can do almost as much racial profiling as White ones. I haven't looked that one up in a while. Might be wrong.

 

[digger]

^^^"Mind you this was a Black man telling his people they and they alone are responsible."

False. Watch the end of the video. Also, I disagree with your point in general. That racism is dead. There are still active white supremacist groups, for christ' sake. Storm Front and Aryan Nation and all that. And those are just the fuckers who aren't ashamed to admit it. How many more people discriminate in little ways every day? And what about racial profiling by police?

^Could you try being non partisan for a little bit. Just give it a try. Bitch about someone on the right that you disagree with. Or maybe you should spend a post or two not bitching at all. Try saying something constructive.

You seem to confuse human nature with an deliberate act of institutional racism.

Racism, bigotry and all the other trigger words are nothing more than human nature it will never go away it will never change.

Racial profiling by Police LMAO!! WTF? you do know there are about the same number of white cops as black right.. are you calling the black officers racists?

We are what we are despite the lefts attempts to demonize everyone they disagree with.

Its a dead overused wedge issue that the left used as a tool nobody buys into it any longer.

Except Blacks and white libs.

Interesting, isn't it? White people saying that racism is over and it's time for color blindness. Black people, for some reason, still seem to think that racism is an issue. Maybe it's all the young unarmed Black men getting shot by cops. Or any of the countless horrible injustices that happen all the time.

 

[Robert]

^^^"Mind you this was a Black man telling his people they and they alone are responsible."

False. Watch the end of the video. Also, I disagree with your point in general. That racism is dead. There are still active white supremacist groups, for christ' sake. Storm Front and Aryan Nation and all that. And those are just the fuckers who aren't ashamed to admit it. How many more people discriminate in little ways every day? And what about racial profiling by police?

^Could you try being non partisan for a little bit. Just give it a try. Bitch about someone on the right that you disagree with. Or maybe you should spend a post or two not bitching at all. Try saying something constructive.

You seem to confuse human nature with an deliberate act of institutional racism.

Racism, bigotry and all the other trigger words are nothing more than human nature it will never go away it will never change.

Racial profiling by Police LMAO!! WTF? you do know there are about the same number of white cops as black right.. are you calling the black officers racists?

We are what we are despite the lefts attempts to demonize everyone they disagree with.

Its a dead overused wedge issue that the left used as a tool nobody buys into it any longer.

You're not making a lot of sense here. it's a part of human nature that will never go away and never change. And at the same time it's a dead issue? How do those thought coincides?

Strangely enough, I disagree with both points. I'll give you that human nature is involved. but it changes all the time. Compare now to 50 years ago. To 200 years ago. Change. Hard to deny.

I dunno what to say about the other point. If you think it's a dead issue, there's nothing much I can say to you about it. Why are you in here talking about it if it's a dead issue to you?

You think 13% of the population makes up 50% of the police force? link? Side note : interestingly, Black cops can do almost as much racial profiling as White ones. I haven't looked that one up in a while. Might be wrong.

Maybe you can explain on how you plan on making a law against certain aspect's of human nature which is a bit like making a law against Suicide...Ya boy that did a lot of good.

Try separating the Human condition from the institutional condition which you can change which we already have changed its a dead issue in that everyone has teh same rights as everyone else.

Everyone is given the same potential to be as much as they can be there is nothing holding anyone back other than your own ability for which you and you alone are Uniquely responsible for.

And dude give up on the Police officer aspect that's really not going to go any place.....I know its pointless for me to suggest this but try imagining just once in your life what it must be like to walk their shoes you'll quickly understand why the Police are the way they are.

 

[Robert]

You seem to confuse human nature with an deliberate act of institutional racism.

Racism, bigotry and all the other trigger words are nothing more than human nature it will never go away it will never change.

Racial profiling by Police LMAO!! WTF? you do know there are about the same number of white cops as black right.. are you calling the black officers racists?

We are what we are despite the lefts attempts to demonize everyone they disagree with.

Its a dead overused wedge issue that the left used as a tool nobody buys into it any longer.

Except Blacks and white libs.

Interesting, isn't it? White people saying that racism is over and it's time for color blindness. Black people, for some reason, still seem to think that racism is an issue. Maybe it's all the young unarmed Black men getting shot by cops. Or any of the countless horrible injustices that happen all the time.

Injustices happen........end of story

 

[rightwinger]

You seem to confuse human nature with an deliberate act of institutional racism.

Racism, bigotry and all the other trigger words are nothing more than human nature it will never go away it will never change.

Racial profiling by Police LMAO!! WTF? you do know there are about the same number of white cops as black right.. are you calling the black officers racists?

We are what we are despite the lefts attempts to demonize everyone they disagree with.

Its a dead overused wedge issue that the left used as a tool nobody buys into it any longer.

Except Blacks and white libs.

Interesting, isn't it? White people saying that racism is over and it's time for color blindness. Black people, for some reason, still seem to think that racism is an issue. Maybe it's all the young unarmed Black men getting shot by cops. Or any of the countless horrible injustices that happen all the time.

No question that black males get stopped and questioned more often than white males. I can walk in any neighborhood in America and not get questioned by cops. If a black male is walking in a white neighborhood, he is likely to be stopped.
Shootings go both ways. Cops are shot by black males and are likely to be quick on the trigger when confronting young, black males.

 

[digger]

Or maybe people aren't as bad as you seem to think we are.

Nah, people are pretty shitty.

If it's the goal, it's time to start living the goal. Goals are worthless if you don't bother achieving them.

Fake it 'till you make it, huh?

Central to our society? Hardly. In fact, race is one of the least central aspects to our society. It's a distraction from the real problems we face, problems which cut across racial lines like poverty, corruption, violence, etc.

Race decides where we live, where we go to school, who our friends are, who we marry, what sort of opportunities we have, and what obstacles. You may not want it to matter. But you'll have a hard time showing me that it doesn't.

How do you intend to stop people who don't want to listen?

Good question. Any ideas?

 

[digger]

Not a lot of benefit from racism IMHO. And to suggest that those who are not actively dismantling racism are participating in it is ridiculous. Most of us have lives to live and families to take care of, and have no time to fix societies ills, which includes a lot more issues than racism. There is an inherent feeling in this country from it's inception that you fix your own problems. So why not stop obsessing about race and get on with making yourself a better person.


PS: this isn't politics, so why is this thread here?

That's cold, man. You have a dim view of our founding principles. I don't know where in any of the founding documents you can find that everyone's in it on their own. I think that's more of a modern conservative concept that is falsely overlaid on our history. I think we're founded on the principle that by working together we can promote the common good. Providing for the general welfare is right there in the first sentence of the constitution.

The reason that those of us who are privileged have the responsibility to dismantle racism is that we benefit from it. Do you agree that we benefit from other people's loss every day. Doesn't that make you feel bad?

 

[mudwhistle]

Not a lot of benefit from racism IMHO. And to suggest that those who are not actively dismantling racism are participating in it is ridiculous. Most of us have lives to live and families to take care of, and have no time to fix societies ills, which includes a lot more issues than racism. There is an inherent feeling in this country from it's inception that you fix your own problems. So why not stop obsessing about race and get on with making yourself a better person.


PS: this isn't politics, so why is this thread here?

That's cold, man. You have a dim view of our founding principles. I don't know where in any of the founding documents you can find that everyone's in it on their own. I think that's more of a modern conservative concept that is falsely overlaid on our history. I think we're founded on the principle that by working together we can promote the common good. Providing for the general welfare is right there in the first sentence of the constitution.

The reason that those of us who are privileged have the responsibility to dismantle racism is that we benefit from it. Do you agree that we benefit from other people's loss every day. Doesn't that make you feel bad?

A misinterpretation of the Constitution.

We are entitled to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, not health care and perpetual unemployment benefits.

 

[rightwinger]

Not a lot of benefit from racism IMHO. And to suggest that those who are not actively dismantling racism are participating in it is ridiculous. Most of us have lives to live and families to take care of, and have no time to fix societies ills, which includes a lot more issues than racism. There is an inherent feeling in this country from it's inception that you fix your own problems. So why not stop obsessing about race and get on with making yourself a better person.


PS: this isn't politics, so why is this thread here?

That's cold, man. You have a dim view of our founding principles. I don't know where in any of the founding documents you can find that everyone's in it on their own. I think that's more of a modern conservative concept that is falsely overlaid on our history. I think we're founded on the principle that by working together we can promote the common good. Providing for the general welfare is right there in the first sentence of the constitution.

The reason that those of us who are privileged have the responsibility to dismantle racism is that we benefit from it. Do you agree that we benefit from other people's loss every day. Doesn't that make you feel bad?

A misinterpretation of the Constitution.

We are entitled to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, not health care and perpetual unemployment benefits.

I hate when people misinterpret the Constitution.....

That is from the Declaration of Independence

 

[Tank]

Because of blacks high testosterone and low IQ levels no group of people wants to associate with blacks, not just in America but the world too.

 

[Wiseacre]

Not a lot of benefit from racism IMHO. And to suggest that those who are not actively dismantling racism are participating in it is ridiculous. Most of us have lives to live and families to take care of, and have no time to fix societies ills, which includes a lot more issues than racism. There is an inherent feeling in this country from it's inception that you fix your own problems. So why not stop obsessing about race and get on with making yourself a better person.


PS: this isn't politics, so why is this thread here?

That's cold, man. You have a dim view of our founding principles. I don't know where in any of the founding documents you can find that everyone's in it on their own. I think that's more of a modern conservative concept that is falsely overlaid on our history. I think we're founded on the principle that by working together we can promote the common good. Providing for the general welfare is right there in the first sentence of the constitution.

The reason that those of us who are privileged have the responsibility to dismantle racism is that we benefit from it. Do you agree that we benefit from other people's loss every day. Doesn't that make you feel bad?

My basic problem with your outlook on racism is that you're expecting somebody else to take responsibility for an inequality they did not create. I will not accept responsibility for somebody else's discriminatory or racist actions, either past, present, or future. I will support laws that preclude such actions and punsh transgressors. And I would support using public money, primarily loans, to help finance programs that teach people a trade or in some effective way give them a chance to succeed. But not if it turns into a way of living, moving from one program to the next on my tax dollars. I don't care who you are or what color your skin is, you are responsibile for your actions and should pay for the consequences of your decisions, whatever they may be.

 

[digger]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

That's a nice sentence. Really hard to misinterpret.

 

[Wiseacre]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

That's a nice sentence. Really hard to misinterpret.

Yeah, it is a nice sentence, not too sure about the misinterpretation part though. You're coming at this from a racism point of view, which is basically one group of people over another. I do not believe that is the intent, general welfare means everybody.

 

[digger]

So you're saying that we should look out for each other only if it's everyone who's in trouble? If it's only one group of people being oppressed, then they're on their own? But I would think that justice would cover what common welfare doesn't. If the common welfare doesn't extend to an entire group of people through no fault of their own, that is unjust, yes? I'm trying to understand the distinction you're making here. I mean yeah, obviously the founders weren't actually into liberty and equality. They owned slaves. But that has bean an ideal that we've been working towards since our founding. It's a process.

I really don't get the point you're trying to make. I said that racism sucks and we should do something about it. You said not your problem and this country was founded on the idea of not doing things for the common good. I showed you that it's not, and challenged you to find any founding document that says anything of the like. You say that it's not relevant because it's a race issue. And I'm like, huh?

Am I misrepresenting you somewhere? Just trying to understand what you're saying.