War.

[JohnDB]

Energy costs are only a portion of what affects economies.

Communications, goods, and information exchanges are what drives them.

Governments can make a positive environment for an economy to grow....or a poor environment and watch all commerce die.

Things like taxes, restrictive regulations, and gambling have flattening effects on any economy.

Regulations that break up monopolies can make economies explode in growth as more ideas are implemented with existing technologies and infrastructure.

Sometimes creating infrastructure can create a new environment for businesses....(interstate system, upgraded docks for shipping, and etc)

The "tech boom" all came about by breaking up AT&T. Internet tech came along and Microsoft made computers accessible for people other than nerds to use. Also cellular technology made communications much easier as well as accessing the internet.
Data handling and storage became much more complex and simple all at the same time.

Today,
We have a similar situation with huge corporations. We have 9 corporations that own 80% of all publicly traded stocks and their intellectual property assets.

Bust up the banks and mega corporations....
There's only 9 of them. They aren't hiding.

 

[kevinthrowe]

Excellent reason we need to be more energy independent.
It sure helps the economy around here as well as keeps the prices at the pumps down.
Lots of jobs too, greater tax base for public services, and pretty much a win-win.

But fossil fuels are a finite resource and will run out in 50 to 100 years.
The rest of the world will have moved on to better energy

 

[JohnDB]

But fossil fuels are a finite resource and will run out in 50 to 100 years.
The rest of the world will have moved on to better energy

They said this exact same thing in the '70's.

We are using exponentially more today on a global scale than we dreamed possible then.

If somehow all ICE vehicles and generating capacity stopped being made that used petroleum....peak petroleum usage would still be a minimum of thirty years from now.
Meaning we still would require an increasing amount of petroleum every year for the next thirty years....and then it would be level and flat for another 20 years.
So in 50 years demand and use would SLOWLY begin to decline a tiny bit. (1.5%)

So....
Explain to me how this could happen.

 

[kevinthrowe]

They said this exact same thing in the '70's.

We are using exponentially more today on a global scale than we dreamed possible then.

If somehow all ICE vehicles and generating capacity stopped being made that used petroleum....peak petroleum usage would still be a minimum of thirty years from now.
Meaning we still would require an increasing amount of petroleum every year for the next thirty years....and then it would be level and flat for another 20 years.
So in 50 years demand and use would SLOWLY begin to decline a tiny bit. (1.5%)

So....
Explain to me how this could happen.

“ It’s bewildering to think that in a world of FINITE resources, we’ve built an entire economy on INFINITE growth “

 

[JohnDB]

“ It’s bewildering to think that in a world of FINITE resources, we’ve built an entire economy on INFINITE growth “

But it's a natural result.
Petroleum products are in EVERYTHING. Sure gasoline is cooked off first but the bitumen left over is what pays the bills. Everything from vaccines to the computing device in your hands are made as a result of petroleum products. Alternatives can be had at 5x the price. But people are struggling to live now.
And the peak is of course a LOT further away than 30 years....(no magic in reality)

To the point though....
It's not the petroleum itself....but CHEAP petroleum that created this situation. It's an inexpensive resource that produces inexpensive materials that we ALL use in a multitude of ways constantly EVERY DAY.

Even nuclear fuel is limited. It might be plentiful but it has limits too. And it's byproducts generally do not have as many uses. Petroleum is currently much more cost effective.

Look at the manure industry and seed&feed stores. Once extremely common before the adoption of automobiles. But they were phased out by the adoption of automobiles with gasoline and diesel fuel. (Smell improved only slightly)

Fusion is still decades away as materials needed for containment chambers have not been found. Everything burns up until temperatures for sustained reactions come down.

Solar with silicon refinement is toxic to all life on the planet....same with wind turbines (and neither is even possible without petroleum products).

So....find a solution that provides inexpensive power and needed inexpensive chemicals which is highly portable. And I guarantee that people will forget petroleum existed.

 

[Bitterhook]

But fossil fuels are a finite resource and will run out in 50 to 100 years.
The rest of the world will have moved on to better energy

So, you would rather us be dependent on foreign oil and worried about war, and you would rather the oil stopped coming.
See, you never were serious about the premise of the thread, and you just cannot help yourself.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Love you believe either party can control gas prices. As “ Dark Money” explains corporations use prices to influence the votes. Oil was down during the Biden administration but profits were at record levels every quarter. If those profits were the benchmark now we would have $5 a gallon gas. Fossil fuel is a finite resource. Burning it has zero good affects

Wow! You really went off the deep end there! What is the computer or phone you are using to post made of? Is your power fueled by solar, wind, or hydroelectric?

If not, why not? We are running out of oil!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yes and without pointing out profits we are comparing orange and apple.

Hey dumbass, those profits fueled my retirement because my investments were in energy companies.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Cool but a search on the affects of another Middle East war on gas shows it will likely be $5 a gallon. And since the American revolution showed that only gorilla warfare works against a superpower we can expect America deaths. For what?

Now I know you don't speak English! Off to ignore with your foreign ass!

I recommend others put this interloper on the STFU filter!

 

[kevinthrowe]

So, you would rather us be dependent on foreign oil and worried about war, and you would rather the oil stopped coming.
See, you never were serious about the premise of the thread, and you just cannot help yourself.

Rather be in front on the renewables rather than run out of fossil fuels and have to buy China renewables. We in Ohio have one of the biggest solar panel manufacturers

 

[JohnDB]

Rather be in front on the renewables rather than run out of fossil fuels and have to buy China renewables. We in Ohio have one of the biggest solar panel manufacturers

Renewable are not cheaper than oil.

For as efficient and effective as petroleum products are....
Renewables would have to be a quarter of their current price and simultaneously petroleum would have to be 5X the highest price they have ever reached.

That's how ridiculous Renewable energy and products currently are.

As far as our electric generating facilities go.
In the short term clean coal burners are cheaper per KW. Long term Nuke plants are eventually cheaper. Because Nuke plants require much more money to build. And it's only towards the end of their 25 year life cycle that they become cheaper....just before they become an abandoned brown site if not rebuilt and refurbished.

And we need over 30 full 5 giga watt generating facilities now....not in 5 years but today. That's for the data centers and manufacturing that is returning to the USA.

 

[kevinthrowe]

Renewable are not cheaper than oil.

For as efficient and effective as petroleum products are....
Renewables would have to be a quarter of their current price and simultaneously petroleum would have to be 5X the highest price they have ever reached.

That's how ridiculous Renewable energy and products currently are.

As far as our electric generating facilities go.
In the short term clean coal burners are cheaper per KW. Long term Nuke plants are eventually cheaper. Because Nuke plants require much more money to build. And it's only towards the end of their 25 year life cycle that they become cheaper....just before they become an abandoned brown site if not rebuilt and refurbished.

And we need over 30 full 5 giga watt generating facilities now....not in 5 years but today. That's for the data centers and manufacturing that is returning to the USA.

Ok well many countries will soon be carbon free.
China installed more renewable energy last year than the entire world.
Just as we got off coal as the primary source we will get off all fossil fuels.
Best unreal guess is 50 years of oil left in ground

 

[HikerGuy83]

Cool but a search on the affects of another Middle East war on gas shows it will likely be $5 a gallon. And since the American revolution showed that only gorilla warfare works against a superpower we can expect America deaths. For what?

Supply the search.

We currently export oil.

Let's see it.

Our issue is refining capacity.

And that isn't a short term fix. In fact, we are shutting more of it down.

 

[HikerGuy83]

China installed more renewable energy last year than the entire world.

And still put in a buttload of coal plants.

Was that ring through your nose made in the USA?

 

[HikerGuy83]

Best unreal guess is 50 years of oil left in ground

Using proven reserves.

A while ago, it was 12 years.....left.

But then, guess what? We found more.

 

[JohnDB]

Ok well many countries will soon be carbon free.
China installed more renewable energy last year than the entire world.
Just as we got off coal as the primary source we will get off all fossil fuels.
Best unreal guess is 50 years of oil left in ground

China is also the leading supplier of silicon....refined.

It's a domestic product. However....the refining process is destroying their environment.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Either English isn’t your first language or you’re intoxicated

Or both

Not sure why you think their English isn't good. Maybe the language level is too high for you to understand.

How about sticking to the topic, instead of attacks?

 

[Bitterhook]

Rather be in front on the renewables rather than run out of fossil fuels and have to buy China renewables. We in Ohio have one of the biggest solar panel manufacturers

Try to stay on topic, because it is your thread.
Remember, you are supposed to be upset that the price of gas may get higher.