War President? I Think Not

Psychoblues

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2003
2,701
142
48
North Missisippi
Dear Uncle Psychoblues,
Why does George W. Bush keep calling himself a “War President?” Aside from the fact that he really seems to like dressing up in war stuff, and saying things like “Bring it on” and “Dead or alive,” etc., that only serve to make you wonder how secure his manhood really is, does he really think America is at war? IS America at war? I know we’ve got soldiers dying every day because George likes the idea of guns shooting and people being scared of us, but is that ‘war?’ And what does he get out of being a “War President?” Should he get something special, like a tee shirt?

Laura
Ames, IA


Dear Laura,

Well, if Uncle is understanding this right, you only get the t-shirt when you’ve actually been there and done that. So let’s parse it out: Has Mr. Bush been a war President?

“War” is a word with many meanings, and it’s important to be clear about which meaning is actually relevant, especially when human lives are at stake. The word is often tossed around casually, as in “I’m at war with the Accounting Department over how the quarterly numbers are reported,” or “The Save-A-Lot Store has declared war on high prices!” That’s fine when the stakes are low. I have been known to mutter things about being at war with the community of ants that is trying to move in and occupy my kitchen counter, and I’d get annoyed with anyone who was offended at my trivialization of the concept in such a context. Lighten up and get a life, and all that.

But when you’re operating on the scale of governments and nations with military resources, the lives of soldiers and civilians at stake, and huge investments, being too casual about semantics can have devastating consequences. When you’re operating on the scale of a government, “war” has a very specific, very scary, very ominous meaning that has profound legal and moral implications. It is not a word that should be tossed around lightly. Even the construction “War on Poverty,” which I wholeheartedly approve in concept, is a little dangerous semantically.

There are international laws, treaties, and expectations that kick into gear when “war” is at issue. “War,” in that sense, requires certain conditions to apply. For one thing, “War” must be waged by one state upon another state. As a private citizen, I cannot prosecute a war against other private citizens. I can’t enter into internationally-binding treaties or contracts to end a war, to gain and enforce concessions from my opponent(s), or to set conditions for future interactions between myself and my opponent(s).

And that should give you some idea of what “war” is, in the larger sense of international law. There are a number of conventions that legally define war, and they are very complex, but the common points reference war as a state of hostilities between two legally-constituted entities that have the power to bind themselves by treaty or agreement, and to enforce treaties and agreements on their own citizenry, allies, member states, etc. By inference, the state of hostilities exists because one or several parties involved wishes the other(s) to so bind themselves (by, for example, surrendering territory, making legal trade concessions, affording particular rights or privileges, etc.) Those others, presumably, do not wish to so bind themselves, and/or want one or several other parties to bind themselves to renounce claims upon territories, accord special rights and privileges, trade concessions, etc.

One of the things Psychoblues finds so very ironic about the events of my lifetime is that the long ordeal in Vietnam, which was clearly a war by those criteria, was never acknowledged as a ‘war.’ It was called many things, but back then the spinmeisters of the Establishment seemed to believe it would be a bad thing for Americans to acknowledge that they were at war. Today, with our military tragically committed to an ongoing conflict that kills soldiers and civilians daily, our spinmeisters hype the “war,” angle even though the ‘enemy’ is no legally-constituted entity with the power to bind themselves and their citizens, allies, and/or member states to treaties and agreements. In other words, in Vietnam we were fighting a war that was mislabeled as a ‘police action” and in Iraq we are essentially engaging in a police action hyped as a ‘war!’

It might be marginally accurate, perhaps, to describe the brief campaign to destroy Mr. Saddam Hussein’s government as a “war,” since Mr. Saddam Hussein had the legal power (then,) to bind his government, citizenry, and allies to any treaty or agreement that the United States and its allies wanted to impose. Of our stated goals, (ensure that Mr. Hussein’s government did not possess and could not employ weapons of mass destruction against any other nations; stop the abuse, torture, and mass killings of Iraqi civilians; and endow the Iraqi people with political self-determination,) the first had already been effectively achieved through diplomatic action, and I can’t remember any attempt to achieve the second two through diplomatic action before proceeding directly to hostilities. Still, in that sense at least, it was a “war” until Mr. Hussein’s capture and replacement with another legally recognized governmental authority.

There are a good many words that can be correctly employed to describe what our government has committed lives and resources to since that time. We are engaged, as I previously noted, in a ‘police action’ with the cooperation and consent of a legally-recognized government, within their territory. We are also engaged in a long-term effort to reduce and/or eliminate terrorist actions against our citizens, which, if we wanted to be martial and macho about it, we could describe fairly as a ‘fight,’ or even a ‘campaign.’ It is not a war, since our enemy is no legally-recognized entity that has the power to bind itself, its citizens, member states, and allies to its agreements.

In fact, terrorism is a crime and terrorists are uniquely repulsive criminals. They are not “freedom fighters” in the sense of wanting to replace an oppressive authoritarian or totalitarian government with a less oppressive government. In fact, they want to replace existing governments with governments that match or exceed them in authoritarian cruelty, and to deny essential freedoms of religious expression and belief, and political and social self-determination, to anyone who disagrees with them. They are criminals engaged in a loose global network of conspiracy to commit appalling and repulsive crimes and to hamstring effective intervention against them by fomenting political, economic, and ideological conflict and dissension among those who might be capable of stopping them.

What does Mr. Bush get out of calling himself a “war President?” Presumably he believes, correctly, that when the nation is at war, the Executive Branch may legitimately assume some powers, and can postpone or elide some levels of public scrutiny, in order to effectively prosecute that war. Insofar as the U.S. was effectively at war with the Taliban government of Afghanistan, and Mr. Hussein’s government in Iraq for a couple of months until they collapsed and new governments were imposed, perhaps he qualifies for a t-shirt.

But there’s no Constitutional way he qualifies as a “War President” now, nor should Congress be enabling him to continue shredding the Constitution under that feeble excuse. I certainly hope that you and all the voters of America will send that message this fall, Laura.


Psychoblues


Before you start accusing me, this is a plaguerism but it is no joke. Get it?


Psychoblues
 
Can anyone take any of this bosh seriously? Are we to believe that someone despite the fact that the President has lead our troops to liberate two nations from hostile regimes in our war on terror, that he is not a war President?

BTW, I dont know that President Bush has ever said that he is a war President. Quite honestly I have no clue why he would have to say it. Anyone with half a brain can recognize the fact that a President who leads our troops at war is a War President.

And if you want to know why President Bush is a War President. watch United 93. and remember what happened that day.
 
I watched it. Incredible heroism. GWB any part of that? No. Any part of the heroism in Viet Nam? Also, NO. GWB is not what you think he is despite the millions spent to promote and excuse his otherwise short comings as a veteran and an American.

Anybody got any specific disagreements with the article? I didn't think so. Read it and weep.

Psychoblues

PS. I admitted it was plagerism. So what?



Avatar4321 said:
Can anyone take any of this bosh seriously? Are we to believe that someone despite the fact that the President has lead our troops to liberate two nations from hostile regimes in our war on terror, that he is not a war President?

BTW, I dont know that President Bush has ever said that he is a war President. Quite honestly I have no clue why he would have to say it. Anyone with half a brain can recognize the fact that a President who leads our troops at war is a War President.

And if you want to know why President Bush is a War President. watch United 93. and remember what happened that day.
 
You know.. If I mailed a letter like that to my niece... I would hope.

The next time she saw me, she would slap me...


:teeth:
 
Psychoblues said:
I watched it. Incredible heroism. GWB any part of that? No. Any part of the heroism in Viet Nam? Also, NO. GWB is not what you think he is despite the millions spent to promote and excuse his otherwise short comings as a veteran and an American.

Anybody got any specific disagreements with the article? I didn't think so. Read it and weep.

Psychoblues

PS. I admitted it was plagerism. So what?

Yeah, I did have criticisms of the article. In fact, i told you what they are. But rather than deal with the criticisms, you went on a rant on President Bush.

My point of view is anyone who volunteered for the conflict in Vietnam regardless or not they were actually sent there is pretty heroic. I think anyone who service in the military is heroic. Of course, I doubt you will admit that. Because then youd have to admit that President Bush had guts volunteering. However, for some reason you want us to believe that President Bush was dodging the draft by volunteering to serve.

BTW Plagariarism is illegal.
 
Avatar4321 said:
Yeah, I did have criticisms of the article. In fact, i told you what they are. But rather than deal with the criticisms, you went on a rant on President Bush.

My point of view is anyone who volunteered for the conflict in Vietnam regardless or not they were actually sent there is pretty heroic. I think anyone who service in the military is heroic. Of course, I doubt you will admit that. Because then youd have to admit that President Bush had guts volunteering. However, for some reason you want us to believe that President Bush was dodging the draft by volunteering to serve.

BTW Plagariarism is illegal.

Lemme git this strate. you tole me about critisisms, i didn't git it. cud u git it more simpler? I volunteered, not once but three (that's 3 for the you) times in Viet Nam and served there proudly with every ounce of energy, youth and patriotism that I could muster. I had a few high school buddies that joined the National Guard at that time and ridiculed me for going genuine "ACTIVE". Like me, they couldn't do the college thing. Fuckem, but they are still my buddies. I did what I thought, at the time, was right. Correct? I would go to Canada if given the same choice, opportunity and education that I have today. Young troops are really gullibe, don't you know? The Air Force, at least to me, was more preferable with it's guarantee of civilian equated and transferrable skills training. My particular skills training brought much more challenge and danger than I ever imagined. I loved it and I still do. The pResident never completed his training or even showed up for his appointments. It's a PC (Politically Connected) thing as we knew it back then. Hands off, as we were told.


A hero? Thanks for the admiration, but really, I don't need it. Who does?

Psychoblues
 
Psychoblues said:
Lemme git this strate. you tole me about critisisms, i didn't git it. cud u git it more simpler? I volunteered, not once but three (that's 3 for the you) times in Viet Nam and served there proudly with every ounce of energy, youth and patriotism that I could muster. I had a few high school buddies that joined the National Guard at that time and ridiculed me for going genuine "ACTIVE". Like me, they couldn't do the college thing. Fuckem, but they are still my buddies. I did what I thought, at the time, was right. Correct? I would go to Canada if given the same choice, opportunity and education that I have today. Young troops are really gullibe, don't you know? The Air Force, at least to me, was more preferable with it's guarantee of civilian equated and transferrable skills training. My particular skills training brought much more challenge and danger than I ever imagined. I loved it and I still do. The pResident never completed his training or even showed up for his appointments. It's a PC (Politically Connected) thing as we knew it back then. Hands off, as we were told.


A hero? Thanks for the admiration, but really, I don't need it. Who does?

Psychoblues

You are so full of crap your eyes are brown...so now you are an Air Force vet...no doubt you flew F-4s and now want us to feel guilty because you were ordered to bomb North VietNam.
 
CSM said:
You are so full of crap your eyes are brown...so now you are an Air Force vet...no doubt you flew F-4s and now want us to feel guilty because you were ordered to bomb North VietNam.

Yeah, just so no one forgets, when asked what branch of service he served in, page 3, the thread "Haditha .... Won't be the First, won't be the Last," his response was "All of them."

Now he was in the Air Force. I seem to recall a year or so ago he was in the Army.

Not mention his having seen combat in every war or conflict from Korea through the First Gulf War.

I'm just wondering where he got all this ground combat experience in the USAF.
 
Psychoblues said:
Lemme git this strate. you tole me about critisisms, i didn't git it. cud u git it more simpler? I volunteered, not once but three (that's 3 for the you) times in Viet Nam and served there proudly with every ounce of energy, youth and patriotism that I could muster. I had a few high school buddies that joined the National Guard at that time and ridiculed me for going genuine "ACTIVE". Like me, they couldn't do the college thing. Fuckem, but they are still my buddies. I did what I thought, at the time, was right. Correct? I would go to Canada if given the same choice, opportunity and education that I have today. Young troops are really gullibe, don't you know? The Air Force, at least to me, was more preferable with it's guarantee of civilian equated and transferrable skills training. My particular skills training brought much more challenge and danger than I ever imagined. I loved it and I still do. The pResident never completed his training or even showed up for his appointments. It's a PC (Politically Connected) thing as we knew it back then. Hands off, as we were told.


A hero? Thanks for the admiration, but really, I don't need it. Who does?

Psychoblues

If you can't back up your lame-ass argument when questioned, then STFU, wannabe. And don't worry, there are no vets on this board I'm aware of that consider you anything but scum.
 
GunnyL said:
Yeah, just so no one forgets, when asked what branch of service he served in, page 3, the thread "Haditha .... Won't be the First, won't be the Last," his response was "All of them."

Now he was in the Air Force. I seem to recall a year or so ago he was in the Army.

Not mention his having seen combat in every war or conflict from Korea through the First Gulf War.

I'm just wondering where he got all this ground combat experience in the USAF.

To be fair, I seem to remember Psycho saying he was in the Air Force. I dont recall him saying he had been in the Army although he certainly has tried to imply that he had seen ground combat, etc.

In truth, I have no doubt he is an AF vet and that he probably served for a lengthy time. However, I stand by my original opinion; that fact (military service) lends no special weight to his opinions.
 
Psychoblues said:
Lemme git this strate. you tole me about critisisms, i didn't git it. cud u git it more simpler? I volunteered, not once but three (that's 3 for the you) times in Viet Nam and served there proudly with every ounce of energy, youth and patriotism that I could muster. I had a few high school buddies that joined the National Guard at that time and ridiculed me for going genuine "ACTIVE". Like me, they couldn't do the college thing. Fuckem, but they are still my buddies. I did what I thought, at the time, was right. Correct? I would go to Canada if given the same choice, opportunity and education that I have today. Young troops are really gullibe, don't you know? The Air Force, at least to me, was more preferable with it's guarantee of civilian equated and transferrable skills training. My particular skills training brought much more challenge and danger than I ever imagined. I loved it and I still do. The pResident never completed his training or even showed up for his appointments. It's a PC (Politically Connected) thing as we knew it back then. Hands off, as we were told.


A hero? Thanks for the admiration, but really, I don't need it. Who does?

Psychoblues

Were you drunk when you wrote this?
 
CSM said:
To be fair, I seem to remember Psycho saying he was in the Air Force. I dont recall him saying he had been in the Army although he certainly has tried to imply that he had seen ground combat, etc.

In truth, I have no doubt he is an AF vet and that he probably served for a lengthy time. However, I stand by my original opinion; that fact (military service) lends no special weight to his opinions.

He's claimed to have been and done so much, it's hard to keep track.

ITA, his service or lack thereof -- whichever the case may be --, lend no special weight to his opinions.

I DO have a hard time however with the "legthy time" bit. His mindset is not one that I would associate with a career military person.
 
I have participated in military operations, some extreme and others not, since 1968 up to 1991. I continue to advise aspiring defenders of the GREAT AMERICAN WAY. I have participated alongside and in conjunction with literally ALL AMERICAN FIGHTING FORCES and I AM PROUD OF THAT SERVICE. My service, however, has been as an enlistee of the United States Air Force. You got a problem with that?

Service in Korea to this day qualifies one for the Expeditionary Medal which also qualifies them for membership in the VFW. I didn't serve in the battles of 1950 thru 1953 but I damned sure served there and I left there with experience I'll never forget and the medal that I mentioned. My TDY (temporary duty assignments) from there opened my eyes, my brain and my tolerance for opposing political views. I still do the best I can with all that.

My service in Korea, Viet Nam, Grenada, Panama and Persian Gulf Desert Storm is genuine. I assume your service was clerical in nature and without the glory of death that you so desired. Que' Sera Sera.

BTW, I am not, as 98% of the Air Force is also not, a pilot. But my time spent in combat saving Marines asses as well as my own is just as important as your contributions or not?

Psychoblues



GunnyL said:
Yeah, just so no one forgets, when asked what branch of service he served in, page 3, the thread "Haditha .... Won't be the First, won't be the Last," his response was "All of them."

Now he was in the Air Force. I seem to recall a year or so ago he was in the Army.

Not mention his having seen combat in every war or conflict from Korea through the First Gulf War.

I'm just wondering where he got all this ground combat experience in the USAF.
 
Psychoblues said:
Dear Uncle Psychoblues,
Why does George W. Bush keep calling himself a “War President?” Aside from the fact that he really seems to like dressing up in war stuff, and saying things like “Bring it on” and “Dead or alive,” etc., that only serve to make you wonder how secure his manhood really is, does he really think America is at war? IS America at war? I know we’ve got soldiers dying every day because George likes the idea of guns shooting and people being scared of us, but is that ‘war?’ And what does he get out of being a “War President?” Should he get something special, like a tee shirt?

How childish are their tales, how transparent their motives, how unashamed and atrophied are their consciences. To call a liberal a liar is to say that fish swim. For them it is natural. You’d think however after a lifetime of being unhindered by things such as conscience and truth that they’d have developed at least minimal professional skills at their craft, but they haven’t, and I for one feel like a fool for having to point out the obvious. I can only conclude that their disciples care not what they say or do, only that they succeed in doing it. Lying, for a liberal, is a way of life and a badge of honor.
 
Lies and innuendo are your modem operandi. Truth is your enemy. Facts will destroy you.


Psychoblues




Pale Rider said:
How childish are their tales, how transparent their motives, how unashamed and atrophied are their consciences. To call a liberal a liar is to say that fish swim. For them it is natural. You’d think however after a lifetime of being unhindered by things such as conscience and truth that they’d have developed at least minimal professional skills at their craft, but they haven’t, and I for one feel like a fool for having to point out the obvious. I can only conclude that their disciples care not what they say or do, only that they succeed in doing it. Lying, for a liberal, is a way of life and a badge of honor.
 

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