Zelensky says war will 'end sooner' with Trump as president

[Ringo]

Nobody "banned elections" fool, they are suspended during wartime by existing Ukranian law and constitution.

You wouldn't know the Ukrainian constitution from your soiled underpants.

 

[AntonToo]

You wouldn't know the Ukrainian constitution from your soiled underpants.

Lets read togather, shall we dupe?

Ukranian Constitution - suspension of Parlamentarian term limits and electoral turnover during wartime:

Article 83

• In the event that the term of authority of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine expires while martial law or a state of emergency is in effect, its authority is extended until the day of the first meeting of the first session of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , elected after the cancellation of martial law or of the state of emergency.

Ukrainian Constituion - supention of Presidential term limits during wartime:

Article 108

• The President of Ukraine exercises his or her powers until the assumption of office by the newly-elected President of Ukraine.

Ukranian Law suspending elections during martial law:

On the legal status of martial law - No. 389-VIII

Article 19.
In the course of martial law, it is prohibited:
Changing the Constitution of Ukraine
Changing the Constitution of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea;
Election of the President of Ukraine, as well as elections to
Supreme Council of Ukraine, Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea
and local governments;
Conducting all-Ukrainian and local referendums;

 

[Ringo]

Ukranian Law suspending elections during martial law:

The German nazis also passed many laws by which all their actions were perfectly legal. So an asshole like you can claim that the Nuremberg trial was illegal.

 

[AntonToo]

The German nazis also passed many laws by which all their actions were perfectly legal.

German Nazis turned Germany into a dictatorship well before any war.

On January 30, 1933, President Hindenburg appointed Adolf Hitler chancellor of Germany. Hitler was not appointed chancellor as the result of an electoral victory with a popular mandate, but instead as the result of a constitutionally questionable deal among a small group of conservative German politicians who had given up on parliamentary rule. They hoped to use Hitler's popularity with the masses to buttress a return to conservative authoritarian rule, perhaps even a monarchy. Within two years, however, Hitler and the Nazis outmaneuvered Germany's conservative politicians to consolidate a radical Nazi dictatorship completely subordinate to Hitler's personal will.

Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Rise to Power, 1918–1933 | Holocaust Encyclopedia

The Nazi Party was one of a number of right-wing extremist political groups that emerged in Germany following World War I. Learn about the Nazi rise to power.

encyclopedia.ushmm.org

How about you do some basic reading on the subject before trying to use it as an argument?


Suspention of elections during wartime is common sense itself, 30-40% of Ukranian population is currently displaced,
large gatherings are dangerous and political infighting detrimental to the war effort.

80%+ of Ukranians understand that and support deferring elections untill the end of the war.

 

[Zavulon]

Nobody "banned elections" fool, they are suspended during wartime by existing Ukranian law and constitution.

Obviously no. There was "wartime" since 2014 and Ukrainian Constitution Court clearly determined that wartime is not a reason to suspend elections. Thats why there were elections and Zelenskiy was elected in the first place.

 

[Freedomisneverfree]

 

[AntonToo]

Obviously no. There was "wartime" since 2014 and Ukrainian Constitution Court clearly determined that wartime is not a reason to suspend elections. Thats why there were elections and Zelenskiy was elected in the first place.

No there wasn’t in a legal sense.

Martial law is an official declaration that triggers very specific provisions in the law, including suspension of elections.

Martial law in Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Ringo]

 

[Kruska]

No there wasn’t in a legal sense.

Martial law is an official declaration that triggers very specific provisions in the law, including suspension of elections.

With the signing of the two bills, martial law and mobilization in Ukraine have been extended for another three months until Feb. 7, 2025.
Zelenskyy submitted the two draft bills to parliament on Oct. 28, which were adopted by the Verkhovna Rada a day later.

The Ukrainian population had absolutely no say in this matter - the actor and billionaire has simply established a dictatorship in Ukraine - just as Putin in Russia. And one that Trump keeps dreaming about.

 

[AntonToo]

With the signing of the two bills, martial law and mobilization in Ukraine have been extended for another three months until Feb. 7, 2025.
Zelenskyy submitted the two draft bills to parliament on Oct. 28, which were adopted by the Verkhovna Rada a day later.

The Ukrainian population had absolutely no say in this matter - the actor and billionaire has simply established a dictatorship in Ukraine - just as Putin in Russia. And one that Trump keeps dreaming about.

You are posting ludicrous bullshit, population never has a direct say in martial law declaration in any country. Immediate war response is not up to a popular vote.

Having said that 80% of Ukranians support delaying elections until after war in accordance with Ukraine’s laws.

 

[Kruska]

You are posting ludicrous bullshit, population never has a direct say in martial law declaration in any country. Immediate war response is not up to a popular vote.

Having said that 80% of Ukranians support delaying elections until after war in accordance with Ukraine’s laws.

Then why are the USA and the EU (all these democratic countries) constantly propagating, that the Ukraine war is about DEMOCRACY???

BTW, it's 70% not 80% that support Zelensky remaining in power till martial law is ended. Where is the voting process that would confirm these 70% - it's simply a claim by Kiev. And who are these 70% anyway? since on 20 March 2022, President Volodymyr Zelensky announced a ban on 11 political parties for alleged ties with Russia, whilst millions of Ukrainians are living outside Ukraine - e.g 1.2 million alone in Germany. And as of November 2024 a total of 7 million reside outside of Ukraine.

Upholding Democratic Legitimacy Under Martial Law: Ukraine’s Legal Mandate for the 2024 Presidential Election — Columbia Undergraduate Law Review

Ukraine, derogation, martial law, elections, democracy

www.culawreview.org

After the escalation of the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2022, the Ukrainian government instituted martial law, which continues to present a dilemma for the Ukrainian people. [1] Despite their understanding that wartime actions require increased legal flexibility, Ukrainian citizens are also entitled to democratic norms and privileges. Accordingly, Ukraine has a legal imperative to hold its 2024 presidential election because the cancellation of its election violates several international covenants and treaties and violates its own martial law due to the unlawful seizure of power......

 

[Zavulon]

No there wasn’t in a legal sense.

Martial law is an official declaration that triggers very specific provisions in the law, including suspension of elections.

Martial law in Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Poroshenko tried to declare martial law back in 2018 to cancel elections. But the Constitutional court said clearly:
-----
Article 103 of the Constitution says: "The President of Ukraine is elected by the citizens of Ukraine on the basis of universal, equal and direct suffrage by secret ballot for a period of five years." The Constitutional Court found that the provision of article 103 of the Constitution and other articles defining the constitutional and legal status of the President does not contain norms that would establish a different term of office than five years.

Article 112 clarifies: "The performance of the duties of the President of Ukraine for the period until the election and assumption of the post of the new President of Ukraine is entrusted to the Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine."

Article 157 puts an end to the current situation: "The Constitution of Ukraine cannot be changed in a state of war or emergency."
-------------
Only five year. No more, no less (exept the impeachment situation).
When his five years ended - he ceased to be a president Martial Law.

 

[AntonToo]

Then why are the USA and the EU (all these democratic countries) constantly propagating, that the Ukraine war is about DEMOCRACY???

Democracy always takes a backseat for the sake of country's survival during war time, in all democratic countries some rights are suspended once martial law is in effect.

BTW, it's 70% not 80% that support Zelensky remaining in power till martial law is ended. Where is the voting process that would confirm these 70% - it's simply a claim by Kiev.

..because you say-so? Ridiculous.

Multiple sources confirmed broad Ukranian support for not conducting elections during war.

Should Ukraine’s Zelenskyy hold elections amid Russia war? No, say voters

Some politicians, in Ukraine and elsewhere, question whether the country should hold a vote, despite legal restrictions.

www.aljazeera.com

Press releases and reports - Perception of the need for the Presidential elections

www.kiis.com.ua

In December 2023, 84% of Ukrainians believed that it was not time to hold elections and it was necessary to postpone this issue. Along with this, we can observe the emergence of narratives that from May 2024, President V. Zelenskyi may lose his legitimacy. Therefore, in February 2024, we asked a question in a slightly different format, namely, which scenario from the point of view of the Ukrainians themselves is more correct after May 2024.

The vast majority of Ukrainians – 69% – believe that V. Zelenskyi should serve as President until the end of martial law.

 

[AntonToo]

Poroshenko tried to declare martial law back in 2018 to cancel elections. But the Constitutional court said clearly:
-----
Article 103 of the Constitution says: "The President of Ukraine is elected by the citizens of Ukraine on the basis of universal, equal and direct suffrage by secret ballot for a period of five years." The Constitutional Court found that the provision of article 103 of the Constitution and other articles defining the constitutional and legal status of the President does not contain norms that would establish a different term of office than five years.

Article 112 clarifies: "The performance of the duties of the President of Ukraine for the period until the election and assumption of the post of the new President of Ukraine is entrusted to the Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine."

Article 157 puts an end to the current situation: "The Constitution of Ukraine cannot be changed in a state of war or emergency."
-------------
Only five year. No more, no less (exept the impeachment situation).
When his five years ended - he ceased to be a president Martial Law.

Pure bullshit. Declaration of martial law in 2018 was for only 30 days and did not extend into voting period.

After the incident in the Azov Sea, President Petro Poroshenko convened Ukraine’s Security and Defense Council, which recommended the government declare a state of martial law covering the entire country for two months. The Verkhovna Rada, Ukraine’s parliament, voted to impose a more limited version of 30 days, only covering 10 oblasts bordering Russia, sea borders and the unrecognized republic of Transnistria. The 30-day period began on November 26, 2018, allowing the election campaign to start as scheduled on December 31, a key demand of opposition factions. To avoid further uncertainty, the Rada concurrently adopted a decree confirming the presidential election date of March 31, 2019.

How Did Martial Law Affect the Upcoming Election in Ukraine?

On November 26, 2018, Ukrainian President Poroshenko enacted martial law—for 30 days—in response to Russian naval ships ramming Ukrainian vessels in the Azov Sea and seizing the strategic Kerch Strait. The decision led to concerns that voter rights and civil liberties would be constrained, just...

www.usip.org

 

[Kruska]

Democracy always takes a backseat for the sake of country's survival during war time, in all democratic countries some rights are suspended once martial law is in effect.

It's the combination of declaring Martial law, it's constant prolongal & banning political opposition parties - that equates to a Dictatorship.

....., we can observe the emergence of narratives that from May 2024, President V. Zelenskyi may lose his legitimacy. Therefore, in February 2024, we asked a question in a slightly different format, namely, which scenario from the point of view of the Ukrainians themselves is more correct after May 2024.

The vast majority of Ukrainians – 69% – believe that V. Zelenskyi should serve as President until the end of martial law.

That's what I wrote already before - aka 70%

 

[AntonToo]

It's the combination of declaring Martial law, it's constant prolongal & banning political opposition parties - that equates to a Dictatorship

What part of UKRAINE IS IN A WAR FOR IT'S SURVIVAL do you not ******* get? Were you born yesterday?

There is exactly nothing Ukraine is doing that other democratic countries in a middle of such war for survival would not be doing.

If were in a hot war with Japanese invading and occupying America and 30% of our population was displaced you better god damn belive we would have Martial Law with suspended elections, forced conscription and not have any Russian parties/collaborators/propaganda allowed untill the end of such war.

 

[AntonToo]

That's what I wrote already before - aka 70%

You think you can simply cut out my response and no one would notice?

84% of Ukrainians believed that it was not time to hold elections and it was necessary to postpone this issue.

Don't quote me if you can't even man up to address inconvinient facts contained.

I've said 80%+ support suspention of elections during wartime and I've supported it.

But even if it was 70% - that is still BROAD PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR ADMINISTRATION remaining were it is untill the end of the war.

So stop wasting people's time with bullshit that Zelensky's administration doesn't have public concensus behind it and is somehow opressing the Ukranians.

 

[Kruska]

You think you can simply cut out my response and no one would notice?


Don't quote me if you can't even man up to address inconvinient facts contained.

I've said 80%+ support suspention of elections during wartime and I've supported it.

But even if it was 70% - that is still BROAD PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR ADMINISTRATION remaining were it is untill the end of the war.

So stop wasting people's time with bullshit that Zelensky's administration doesn't have public concensus behind it and is somehow opressing the Ukranians.

You are simply reiterating what Kiev propagates - show me an election/vote that would confirm whatever %
Especially with 20%+ of the Ukrainian population not even residing in the Ukraine. And the opposition within Ukraine blocked out - no voice.

That martial law is needed to ensure conscripts - tells all there is to tell, about this present Ukrainian government and it's population.

Russia rightfully views a Ukraine controlled by NATO and the EU, as an existential threat.
So what is it, that the **** you don't get?

 

[Ringo]

If were in a hot war with Japanese invading and occupying America and 30% of our population was displaced you better god damn belive we would have Martial Law with suspended elections, forced conscription and not have any Russian parties/collaborators/propaganda allowed untill the end of such war.

You filthy scumbag, you're equating the US with fascist dictatorial Ukraine?! A normal person would cite the last months of Hitler's Germany's defense as an example.

 

[AntonToo]

Especially with 20%+ of the Ukrainian population not even residing in the Ukraine.

How do you even say that with a straight face while arguing that elections should take place???

20%+ of the Ukrainian population not even residing in the Ukraine

Read that untill you get it through your thick scull why holding elections and allowing enemy's propaganda operations in your country during hot war makes no ******* sense.