War Azeris and Armenians plunge into war as Putin and Turkey look on. geostrategic tensions between them over proxy

Pilate

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This will blow over in a week or two. The fact is that nobody outside a local level wants this war, and it wouldn’t really benefit anyone. Besides, this kinda stuff pops off every few years.
Russia can benefit from retaking the Straits, but they need really proved facts of the Turkish aggression against Russian or Armenian military units to start a "regional war". Not just Armenian propaganda, but the real facts.
To my knowledge, per international law, Russia can use those straits freely.
 

Silver Cat

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This will blow over in a week or two. The fact is that nobody outside a local level wants this war, and it wouldn’t really benefit anyone. Besides, this kinda stuff pops off every few years.
Russia can benefit from retaking the Straits, but they need really proved facts of the Turkish aggression against Russian or Armenian military units to start a "regional war". Not just Armenian propaganda, but the real facts.
To my knowledge, per international law, Russia can use those straits freely.
Yes. But if Turkey don't allow Russia to use the straits freely, it means declaration of war according Montreux Convention.
 

ESay

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be it's his McJob. You know: "low-paying, low-prestige dead-end job that requires few skills and offers very little chance of intracompany advancement"
He obviously works according a book, and it is a very simple book
Dont completely get this. Are you implying that he works for some 'agency'?
More likely something like 77th Brigade.



Lithuanian hardly can be so ignorant about Russia
He just isn't too bright.
May be. Anyway, this three aren't mutually exclusive, are they?
A stupid, badly educated Lithuanian, serving in the British Army? Why not?
I don't think that a Lithuanian can serve in the British army. Especially, if that one doesn't have any value and does a job every British can do.
An ethnic Lithuanian with the British citizenship? Why not?
"British troops are being taught by a special unit of soldiers from Lithuania how to identify and counter attempts by Russia to manipulate public opinion.

The Baltic state, which is on the front line of President Putin’s propaganda war with the West, is sharing its experiences with 77th Brigade, a relatively new branch of the British army that deals with information warfare.

“The UK has a great deal to learn from the disinformation campaign which is being waged against Lithuania”, a defence source said.

Britain has been under attack from Russian soft power for a long time, he said, referring to a tactic used by governments to gain influence without resorting to military force."
Then, it is a shame for the British army.
It seems you dont like the Brits. Why?
 

ESay

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Retaking the Straits could be much more profitable than making pipelines. And the closing the Straits means open declaration of war anyway
The pipelines have been almost built already. No need to close the straits officially. They can limit the use of the straits due to some reasons. Sudden problems with navigation, as an example.

think, that the Russians would prefer keeping status quo (or A-A trench warfare with both sides buying Russian weapon) to regional war against Turkey
Yes, the Russians would prefer this, for sure. The other question what is the goal of the Turks. Anyway, the Karabakh conflict should be resolved sooner or later. And I don't understand how it can be resolved without a war.
 

Silver Cat

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be it's his McJob. You know: "low-paying, low-prestige dead-end job that requires few skills and offers very little chance of intracompany advancement"
He obviously works according a book, and it is a very simple book
Dont completely get this. Are you implying that he works for some 'agency'?
More likely something like 77th Brigade.



Lithuanian hardly can be so ignorant about Russia
He just isn't too bright.
May be. Anyway, this three aren't mutually exclusive, are they?
A stupid, badly educated Lithuanian, serving in the British Army? Why not?
I don't think that a Lithuanian can serve in the British army. Especially, if that one doesn't have any value and does a job every British can do.
An ethnic Lithuanian with the British citizenship? Why not?
"British troops are being taught by a special unit of soldiers from Lithuania how to identify and counter attempts by Russia to manipulate public opinion.

The Baltic state, which is on the front line of President Putin’s propaganda war with the West, is sharing its experiences with 77th Brigade, a relatively new branch of the British army that deals with information warfare.

“The UK has a great deal to learn from the disinformation campaign which is being waged against Lithuania”, a defence source said.

Britain has been under attack from Russian soft power for a long time, he said, referring to a tactic used by governments to gain influence without resorting to military force."
Then, it is a shame for the British army.
It seems you dont like the Brits. Why?
Few of Brits are my best friends. But many others are stupid, incompetent, treasonous and arrogant bastards.
 

Silver Cat

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Retaking the Straits could be much more profitable than making pipelines. And the closing the Straits means open declaration of war anyway
The pipelines have been almost built already. No need to close the straits officially. They can limit the use of the straits due to some reasons. Sudden problems with navigation, as an example.
And the Russians could send their forces to capture the straits unofficially, too.

think, that the Russians would prefer keeping status quo (or A-A trench warfare with both sides buying Russian weapon) to regional war against Turkey
Yes, the Russians would prefer this, for sure. The other question what is the goal of the Turks.
First and the most obvious is the oil and gas of Azerbaijan. "Brothers in arms" and so on... A political union could be changed in economical one, you know. Second - Erdogan might search opportunities to get votes of "Gray Wolves" and other Panturkists. Right now most of them are in the opposition to his regime. Third - may be it's just an attempt to distract Russian forces from Libya.

Anyway, the Karabakh conflict should be resolved sooner or later. And I don't understand how it can be resolved without a war.
There are many possible ways for it - from Azerbaijan's transformation into tolerant and democratic state, where ethnic Armenians can feel themselves in safety, to Taiwan scenario with openly deployed Russian (or American) forces.
 

ESay

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be it's his McJob. You know: "low-paying, low-prestige dead-end job that requires few skills and offers very little chance of intracompany advancement"
He obviously works according a book, and it is a very simple book
Dont completely get this. Are you implying that he works for some 'agency'?
More likely something like 77th Brigade.



Lithuanian hardly can be so ignorant about Russia
He just isn't too bright.
May be. Anyway, this three aren't mutually exclusive, are they?
A stupid, badly educated Lithuanian, serving in the British Army? Why not?
I don't think that a Lithuanian can serve in the British army. Especially, if that one doesn't have any value and does a job every British can do.
An ethnic Lithuanian with the British citizenship? Why not?
"British troops are being taught by a special unit of soldiers from Lithuania how to identify and counter attempts by Russia to manipulate public opinion.

The Baltic state, which is on the front line of President Putin’s propaganda war with the West, is sharing its experiences with 77th Brigade, a relatively new branch of the British army that deals with information warfare.

“The UK has a great deal to learn from the disinformation campaign which is being waged against Lithuania”, a defence source said.

Britain has been under attack from Russian soft power for a long time, he said, referring to a tactic used by governments to gain influence without resorting to military force."
Then, it is a shame for the British army.
It seems you dont like the Brits. Why?
Few of Brits are my best friends. But many others are stupid, incompetent, treasonous and arrogant bastards.
This can be said about the French or Finns or someone else. Right?
 

ESay

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the Russians could send their forces to capture the straits unofficially, too
Yes, but Turkey isn't Libya or Ukraine. Even if NATO won't rush for help, Turkey has significant military strength.

and the most obvious is the oil and gas of Azerbaijan. "Brothers in arms" and so on... A political union could be changed in economical one, you know. Second - Erdogan might search opportunities to get votes of "Gray Wolves" and other Panturkists. Right now most of them are in the opposition to his regime. Third - may be it's just an attempt to distract Russian forces from Libya
Turkey already has pipelines from Azers without Karabakh. I think the main goal is ambitions of Erdogan and Turkish elite - they see Turkey as a main regional power. They dont want to wait anymore.

are many possible ways for it - from Azerbaijan's transformation into tolerant and democratic state, where ethnic Armenians can feel themselves in safety, to Taiwan scenario with openly deployed Russian (or American) forces
That is the Turks. So, the first scenario isn't even on table. The Amerians and Russian arent too eager to get involved.
 

ekrem

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Israel has been selling Azarbaijan UAVs for years in billions of dollars, great to see them operating it
Israeli petroleum is mostly imported from former Soviet nations, via the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline, connecting the Caspian Sea with the Mediterranean, and passing through Georgia and Turkey.

BTC-Pipeline is solely fed with Azeri oil.
 

Pilate

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This will blow over in a week or two. The fact is that nobody outside a local level wants this war, and it wouldn’t really benefit anyone. Besides, this kinda stuff pops off every few years.
Russia can benefit from retaking the Straits, but they need really proved facts of the Turkish aggression against Russian or Armenian military units to start a "regional war". Not just Armenian propaganda, but the real facts.
To my knowledge, per international law, Russia can use those straits freely.
Yes. But if Turkey don't allow Russia to use the straits freely, it means declaration of war according Montreux Convention.
In such a situation, though, the Turks would get their shit rocked by the Russians. I’m pretty sure Russia has won the overwhelming majority of its wars against the Turks. Nevermind that Turks, since they’d be the aggressing party in this case, wouldn’t be able to bring their NATO allies (who already don’t particularly care for the Turks) to bear.
 
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Litwin

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How Muscovy is helping Armenia portray the Azerbaijan clash as a holy war, we see here 2 standards toward Armenian Azerbaijan nations , great reading for those who are buying Muscovite propaganda.ru, or believe that "Muslim " blood has a different color . Moscow and its poodles have to leave Azerbaijan (UN reslutions are clear on this) state territory !

"The same playbook used by the Assad regime in Syria is being deployed in Armenia to pitch this as an Islam versus Christianity battle - when it is anything but...


Amazingly, Armenia has concurrently engaged in a campaign to obtain recognition for what it claims as a genocide over 100 years ago. The United States recently passed legislation recognising the Armenian genocide without ever mentioning Armenia’s ethnic cleansing of Azerbaijanis. It was the result of many years of lobbying by Armenia as well as the United States Congress' animus towards Turkey.

The United Nations Security Council has adopted resolutions condemning Armenia’s ethnic cleansing. The resolutions refer to Armenia as an “occupying force.”

...


Notably, the Prime Minister talks about defending “the identity” of Armenia. Prime Minister Pashinyan makes it clear that he has his eyes on Nagorno-Karabakh. While trying to make it seem like a defensive position he is really acknowledging that Armenia is fighting in the territory recognised universally as Azerbaijan.

Meanwhile, journalists discovered that Russian military trucks were entering Armenia from Iran at the Julfa crossing. The battle lines have been clearly drawn. Armenia has aligned itself with Russia and Iran. Azerbaijan will rely on its close relationship with Turkey. Many of the statements from Russia, Armenia and Iran have been focused on Turkey as much as they have been on Azerbaijan. Much of the narrative building has also been reminiscent of the campaigns conducted by Russia and Iran on Assad’s behalf. ...

Armenia's supporters have pulled out the same playbook that was used in Syria. Portray the battle as a fight between Christians and Muslims, east vs west.

In Syria, Assad falsely claimed the mantle of “the protector of Christians”— and countries like Greece and Russia promoted that propaganda and furthered the sectarian message. The Assad regime has killed and tortured hundreds of Christians and 60 percent of the churches destroyed during the war have been at the hands of the Assad regime.

The battle – in Armenia’s narrative – is no longer about land, it is now about a religious battle inciting images of crusaders and Jesus on the cross.
1601746322123.png

What we now see is that Armenia has learned from Assad and its close relationship with Russia to play the Christian card. They claim to be defending Christianity against Islamic terrorism.

Armenia is trying to say it is “Armenia or the terrorists” just as Assad tried to make you believe that it was “Assad or the terrorists.”
It’s a simple and effective narrative for people who are ignorant about the realities of the conflict.

The result in Syria has been hundreds of thousands dead Syrian women, children and men. We must not fall for the lie again. The battle over Nagorno-Karabakh has everything to do with raw aggression for land, ethnic nationalism and nothing to do with religion.

"
 

TDontTouchMyCigars

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Israel has been selling Azarbaijan UAVs for years in billions of dollars, great to see them operating it
Israeli petroleum is mostly imported from former Soviet nations, via the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline, connecting the Caspian Sea with the Mediterranean, and passing through Georgia and Turkey.

BTC-Pipeline is solely fed with Azeri oil.
This is what you do when you live in the middle East but in state of war with every state in the region :)

But between 67' and 79', Israel supplied its own Oil for its self, after capturing the Sinai Peninsula
20201003_204908.jpg
 

Silver Cat

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be it's his McJob. You know: "low-paying, low-prestige dead-end job that requires few skills and offers very little chance of intracompany advancement"
He obviously works according a book, and it is a very simple book
Dont completely get this. Are you implying that he works for some 'agency'?
More likely something like 77th Brigade.



Lithuanian hardly can be so ignorant about Russia
He just isn't too bright.
May be. Anyway, this three aren't mutually exclusive, are they?
A stupid, badly educated Lithuanian, serving in the British Army? Why not?
I don't think that a Lithuanian can serve in the British army. Especially, if that one doesn't have any value and does a job every British can do.
An ethnic Lithuanian with the British citizenship? Why not?
"British troops are being taught by a special unit of soldiers from Lithuania how to identify and counter attempts by Russia to manipulate public opinion.

The Baltic state, which is on the front line of President Putin’s propaganda war with the West, is sharing its experiences with 77th Brigade, a relatively new branch of the British army that deals with information warfare.

“The UK has a great deal to learn from the disinformation campaign which is being waged against Lithuania”, a defence source said.

Britain has been under attack from Russian soft power for a long time, he said, referring to a tactic used by governments to gain influence without resorting to military force."
Then, it is a shame for the British army.
It seems you dont like the Brits. Why?
Few of Brits are my best friends. But many others are stupid, incompetent, treasonous and arrogant bastards.
This can be said about the French or Finns or someone else. Right?
Not exactly. The Frenchmen are lazy, Finns are slowpokes, but those of them who works with Americans usually understand their advantages and disadvantages and at least try to compensate latter. Most of the Brits lack of self-awareness. And that cause problems in the USA, too.
 

ESay

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be it's his McJob. You know: "low-paying, low-prestige dead-end job that requires few skills and offers very little chance of intracompany advancement"
He obviously works according a book, and it is a very simple book
Dont completely get this. Are you implying that he works for some 'agency'?
More likely something like 77th Brigade.



Lithuanian hardly can be so ignorant about Russia
He just isn't too bright.
May be. Anyway, this three aren't mutually exclusive, are they?
A stupid, badly educated Lithuanian, serving in the British Army? Why not?
I don't think that a Lithuanian can serve in the British army. Especially, if that one doesn't have any value and does a job every British can do.
An ethnic Lithuanian with the British citizenship? Why not?
"British troops are being taught by a special unit of soldiers from Lithuania how to identify and counter attempts by Russia to manipulate public opinion.

The Baltic state, which is on the front line of President Putin’s propaganda war with the West, is sharing its experiences with 77th Brigade, a relatively new branch of the British army that deals with information warfare.

“The UK has a great deal to learn from the disinformation campaign which is being waged against Lithuania”, a defence source said.

Britain has been under attack from Russian soft power for a long time, he said, referring to a tactic used by governments to gain influence without resorting to military force."
Then, it is a shame for the British army.
It seems you dont like the Brits. Why?
Few of Brits are my best friends. But many others are stupid, incompetent, treasonous and arrogant bastards.
This can be said about the French or Finns or someone else. Right?
Not exactly. The Frenchmen are lazy, Finns are slowpokes, but those of them who works with Americans usually understand their advantages and disadvantages and at least try to compensate latter. Most of the Brits lack of self-awareness. And that cause problems in the USA, too.
The Finns' slowpokeness is more about Russian folklore. The Brits lack of self-awareness? Oh, come on. And that is with their specific humor? Maybe they just dont care what someone thinks about them.
 

Silver Cat

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be it's his McJob. You know: "low-paying, low-prestige dead-end job that requires few skills and offers very little chance of intracompany advancement"
He obviously works according a book, and it is a very simple book
Dont completely get this. Are you implying that he works for some 'agency'?
More likely something like 77th Brigade.



Lithuanian hardly can be so ignorant about Russia
He just isn't too bright.
May be. Anyway, this three aren't mutually exclusive, are they?
A stupid, badly educated Lithuanian, serving in the British Army? Why not?
I don't think that a Lithuanian can serve in the British army. Especially, if that one doesn't have any value and does a job every British can do.
An ethnic Lithuanian with the British citizenship? Why not?
"British troops are being taught by a special unit of soldiers from Lithuania how to identify and counter attempts by Russia to manipulate public opinion.

The Baltic state, which is on the front line of President Putin’s propaganda war with the West, is sharing its experiences with 77th Brigade, a relatively new branch of the British army that deals with information warfare.

“The UK has a great deal to learn from the disinformation campaign which is being waged against Lithuania”, a defence source said.

Britain has been under attack from Russian soft power for a long time, he said, referring to a tactic used by governments to gain influence without resorting to military force."
Then, it is a shame for the British army.
It seems you dont like the Brits. Why?
Few of Brits are my best friends. But many others are stupid, incompetent, treasonous and arrogant bastards.
This can be said about the French or Finns or someone else. Right?
Not exactly. The Frenchmen are lazy, Finns are slowpokes, but those of them who works with Americans usually understand their advantages and disadvantages and at least try to compensate latter. Most of the Brits lack of self-awareness. And that cause problems in the USA, too.
The Finns' slowpokeness is more about Russian folklore.
How many Finns do you know personally?

The Brits lack of self-awareness? Oh, come on. And that is with their specific humor?
Yes. With all their "specific humor" they just can't see themselves in a mirror of the foreign (even American) mind.

Maybe they just dont care what someone thinks about them.
Yes. They don't care about reality at all. You see - there can be "a man, trapped in a woman's body" and we call her - "transgender", there can be "a slender teenager girl, trapped in a huge hill of jelly" - and we call her "body positive". Same way, there can be, say, "James Bond, trapped in a body of ignorant and uneducated ill-breeding prostitute" and we, according policy of tolerance, call it "credible source of information".
They think, that only sense of themselves matters, and this misunderstanding spread in our society too... And this denying reality may be really dangerous.
 

Silver Cat

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Azerbaijan's army, as they said, has captured seven villages, but there is a video confirmation only for one, yet.
 

ESay

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How many Finns do you know personally?
I have to admit that no one.

. They don't care about reality at all. You see - there can be "a man, trapped in a woman's body" and we call her - "transgender", there can be "a slender teenager girl, trapped in a huge hill of jelly" - and we call her "body positive". Same way, there can be, say, "James Bond, trapped in a body of ignorant and uneducated ill-breeding prostitute" and we, according policy of tolerance, call it "credible source of information".
They think, that only sense of themselves matters, and this misunderstanding spread in our society too... And this denying reality may be really dangerous
Frankly, I barely got what you are trying to say here. But thanks, anyway.
Is there your 'favourite' nation or nations in Europe? Just curious.
 

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