Walter Cronkite's Ridiculous Spin on the 1968 Tet Offensive in South Vietnam

[Rigby5]

Like Deadstick, you're going with your 'woke' version of the facts. I'll stay with the actual history. But the two of you have a wonderful afternoon.

What is "your version"?
The South had as many people as the North, and had better US weapons, but could not even hold any territory at all.
The Tet Offensive showed that huge portions of the population in the South supported Ho Chi Mihn with their life.

 

[Soupnazi630]

What is "your version"?
The South had as many people as the North, and had better US weapons, but could not even hold any territory at all.
The Tet Offensive showed that huge portions of the population in the South supported Ho Chi Mihn with their life.

No it did not show that

The communistys lost that battle and lost huge.

the population opposed their aggressive war

 

[Rigby5]

We were right not to sign the 54 geneva agreement since Minh ignored and shredded it.

How?
The agreement was to have a nation wide election, they called a plebiscite, and it was the US who violated the agreement by supporting Diem's illegal coup against Bau Dai, who was the legal leader of the south.

 

[Soupnazi630]

How?
The agreement was to have a nation wide election, they called a plebiscite, and it was the US who violated the agreement by supporting Diem's illegal coup against Bau Dai, who was the legal leader of the south.

Minh refused to hold the election. He NEVER called for a plebiscite

The US violated nothing as the US did not sign the agremeent you ignorant fool

 

[Rigby5]

But they are launched against popular government

You claimed they were not

No one would ever bother trying to launch a communist rebellion against a popular government because it would be suicide.

 

[Soupnazi630]

No one would ever bother trying to launch a communist rebellion against a popular government because it would be suicide.

Which does not stop them from doing so around the world. They have indeed you ignorant DUMBASS

By definition communists are fucking fools

 

[Rigby5]

No it did not show that

The communistys lost that battle and lost huge.

the population opposed their aggressive war

Wrong.
If South Vietnam opposed the war, then they would have won, since they had equal numbers and superior US weapons.
The obvious reason they lost is that almost no one in the South supported Diem, Thieu, Ky, or any of the evil puppets we kept trying.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
If South Vietnam opposed the war, then they would have won, since they had equal numbers and superior US weapons.
The obvious reason they lost is that almost no one in the South supported Diem, Thieu, Ky, or any of the evil puppets we kept trying.

WRONG

You are ignorant and massively uniformed. War is not decided in a ledger sheet.

Most of them opposed minh and for good reason

 

[Rigby5]

Minh refused to hold the election. He NEVER called for a plebiscite

The US violated nothing as the US did not sign the agremeent you ignorant fool

Wrong.
It was Diem who deposed Bau Dai, the former emperor and legal ruler of the South, and prevented the election between the south and north.

{...
The 1955 State of Vietnam referendum determined the future form of government of the State of Vietnam, the nation that was to become the Republic of Vietnam (widely known as South Vietnam). It was contested by Prime Minister Ngô Đình Diệm, who proposed a republic, and former emperor Bảo Đại, who had abdicated in 1945 and at the time of the referendum held the title of head of state.
...
Emboldened by his success, Diệm began to plot Bảo Đại's downfall. He scheduled a referendum for 23 October 1955 and pushed Bảo Đại out of the political scene, hindering the former emperor's attempts to derail the poll. In the period leading up to the vote, campaigning for Bảo Đại was banned, while Diệm's election campaign focused on personal attacks against Bảo Đại. These included pornographic cartoons of the head of state and unverified rumours claiming he was illegitimate and linking him to various mistresses. The government-controlled media launched polemical attacks on Bảo Đại, and police went door-to-door, warning people of the consequences of failing to vote. After his brother Ngô Đình Nhu had rigged the referendum, Diệm proclaimed himself president of the newly created Republic of Vietnam.
...}

1955 State of Vietnam referendum - Wikipedia

The US had no legal authority to support Diem and help Diem to prevent fair elections.
To do what the US did in a sovereign nation, is totally illegal.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.
It was Diem who deposed Bau Dai, the former emperor and legal ruler of the South, and prevented the election between the south and north.

{...
The 1955 State of Vietnam referendum determined the future form of government of the State of Vietnam, the nation that was to become the Republic of Vietnam (widely known as South Vietnam). It was contested by Prime Minister Ngô Đình Diệm, who proposed a republic, and former emperor Bảo Đại, who had abdicated in 1945 and at the time of the referendum held the title of head of state.
...
Emboldened by his success, Diệm began to plot Bảo Đại's downfall. He scheduled a referendum for 23 October 1955 and pushed Bảo Đại out of the political scene, hindering the former emperor's attempts to derail the poll. In the period leading up to the vote, campaigning for Bảo Đại was banned, while Diệm's election campaign focused on personal attacks against Bảo Đại. These included pornographic cartoons of the head of state and unverified rumours claiming he was illegitimate and linking him to various mistresses. The government-controlled media launched polemical attacks on Bảo Đại, and police went door-to-door, warning people of the consequences of failing to vote. After his brother Ngô Đình Nhu had rigged the referendum, Diệm proclaimed himself president of the newly created Republic of Vietnam.
...}

1955 State of Vietnam referendum - Wikipedia

The US had no legal authority to support Diem and help Diem to prevent fair elections.
To do what the US did in a sovereign nation, is totally illegal.

None of that has anything to do with the north you liar

Diem did nothing whatsoever to stop elections in the north and had no abilitey to do so
it was MINH who refused to hold them and siezed power. Then he launched a war of aggression

What we did was absolutely legal and in accordance with our treaty

 

[Rigby5]

WRONG

You are ignorant and massively uniformed. War is not decided in a ledger sheet.

Most of them opposed minh and for good reason

Almost everyone in Vietnam was against Diem, Thieu, Ky, and the US.
The only ones supporting the US in Vietnam were the ones who had collaborated with the French or Japanese, and were afraid they would be prosecuted for their crimes.
We killed 3 million Vietnamese.
So clearly almost the entire population was against us.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Almost everyone in Vietnam was against Diem, Thieu, Ky, and the US.
The only ones supporting the US in Vietnam were the ones who had collaborated with the French or Japanese, and were afraid they would be prosecuted for their crimes.
We killed 3 million Vietnamese.
So clearly almost the entire population was against us.

WRONG

The North was FORCED to support minh just as all communist rulers force their slaves to worship them

The South was either indifferent and supported no one OR opposed the communists

We did not kill three millions which is a fictional manufactured number. Most of the killing was done byu the communist aggressors

Youare ignorant and a liar

They were not against us

 

[Hector12]

But they are launched against popular government

You claimed they were not

I meant that Communist insurgencies against popular governments are not successful.

 

[Hector12]

WRONG

The North was FORCED to support minh just as all communist rulers force their slaves to worship them

The South was either indifferent and supported no one OR opposed the communists

We did not kill three millions which is a fictional manufactured number. Most of the killing was done byu the communist aggressors

Youare ignorant and a liar

They were not against us

President Eisenhower disagreed with you.

 

[Rigby5]

None of that has anything to do with the north you liar

Diem did nothing whatsoever to stop elections in the north and had no abilitey to do so
it was MINH who refused to hold them and siezed power. Then he launched a war of aggression

What we did was absolutely legal and in accordance with our treaty

Sure Diem could not stop elections in the North, and in the North, Ho Chi Minh won.

We had no "treaty" or any authority to do anything in Vietnam.
The Geneva Peace accord was the only legal document, and it was the US that violated it by preventing fair elections in the South.
The truth is Diem could not even legally have beaten Bau Dai in an election, much less Ho Chi Minh.
The proof Diem was unpopular was the fact he was deposed and assassinated in 1963.
But Thieu and Ky were no more popular or successful, even with the billions the US was pouring in.

 

[Rigby5]

It is not an assertion it is fact proven by history it was not a civil war

We had a valid treaty and our treaty ally was attacked by a foreign power

Stopping communist affression is always important

Wrong.
We had no treaty with Vietnam and the only international treaty was for there to be elections in 1955 between Bau Dai and Ho Chi Minh.
By supporting the coup by Diem, we prevented the national election of 1955.

 

[Rigby5]

No it did not show that

The communistys lost that battle and lost huge.

the population opposed their aggressive war

The Tet Offensive was south Vietnamese rising up against the US backed dictators.
It was not by the communist north.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Insurgency is what happens to unpopular governments.

No insurgency is what happens when someone, usually a very small group, dislikes a government. If a government is widely unpopular, it’s opponents don’t need an insurgency, they can openly revolt.

 

[AZrailwhale]

We never should have agreed to that treaty. We should have sign ed an d honored the Geneva Agreement of 1954.

The treaty was SEATO. It was the Asian version of NATO.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The Tet Offensive was south Vietnamese rising up against the US backed dictators.
It was not by the communist north.

If it was, the NVA and VC wouldn’t have been defeated. They expected the South Vietnamese citizen to rise up and support their attack on the class enemies of the RVN government and its running dogs the Americans. Instead the communists got zero support from the civilians and showed their true colors with mass executions and torture of political oppnents.