Walkers Speech was very good, and very clear. Let the layoffs begin.

[hipeter924]

So far, "Wicked Jester's" whole argument is based in the unproven assumption that the public sector unions "bloated benefits and pensions" are at the root cause of Wisconsin's budget deficit.

The onus is on him to provide proof that this is indeed the case.

So far, you are refusing to understand that it is a PART of the problem that needs to be addressed......Governor Walker has already made the case so, the onus is not on me.

Lets face the REAL facts. It's now time for the public sector unions and its members to bite the proverbial bullet. Like in many states, their bloated pensions and benefits are no longer sustainable.........Nobody is taking their pay, benefits or pensions. They can still collectively bargain for pay. Benefits and pensions will now be off the table. They are just going to have to live with what they've agreed to, and not try to thug the state for more down the line. Those Benefit and pension plans are what most in the private sector can only dream of.

You can ignore all the evidence. Go ahead........You're a tax and spend liberal. That's your solution to everything. Doesn't matter what is presented, like the troofers and birfers, it will be ignored because it goes against everything you believe in.

Yep, the same mess occurs here, except the politicians give themselves higher and higher salaries every time they sack people (thus undermining any potential cuts they make). But overall the current pension scheme (earn most of what you earned is good enough itself). It's just pure greed that's driving the debate that's all, ironic since they are so willing to give some of their salary to the poor (yet not willing to give it back to ordinary Americans).

 

[thereisnospoon]

Don't the "wealthy pay about 40% of the Federal Income Tax? How is that a break doyathink? A tax break is when you pay Zero which accounts for 50% of youse.

Liberals actually believe they have done the rich a favor of some sort by taking a smaller amount in tax revenue from them,, even thought it is still disproportionately more. Most people don't even pay federal income tax. tsk tsk

They feel like it is their money. They feel entitled.


Obama is their leader, and he often talks about the Loss of Revenue as if it was his to begin with and they won't give it back.

It's hard to understand the Conservative love affair with "powerful" people. And it's these same powerful people that need government backing in almost everything they do. From protection of their property to helping them with research and development to providing them with a market to sell their "products" (a great deal of which..was created on the public dime), it seems that the Conservative machine props up these "Captains of Industry" and shovels taxpayer money their way. It's like reverse communism (Well..its Fascism..lets not mince words) and the Conservatives just love doing it. It goes against the interests of the Average Joe too. The Financial Industry gets in trouble? Boehner is crying his eyes out for TARP. Silverado savings and loan? Heck..Bush happily handed over some tax money. Bond market went kaboom? There was Reagan..holding a sack of cash.

Yeppers. And the whole Military Industrial complex, Ol' Eisenhower warned about is in full play today..with 2 full blown wars.

Gotta love Conservatives. Selling out the store..and the little guy..to make the Elites obscenely rich.

Bloody good job boys..bloody good job.

Out of context....The federal government historically has used revenue to invest in industries where there is a potential for positive return on investment.
TARP was one of these. I just got through hearing Fed Chair Bernanke say that recent government bailouts have indeed resulted in profit for the federal government.
Don't sit there trying to fool people into the false notion that big business has some sort of direct line to the US Treasury to do with the people's money as it damned well pleases.
BTW, to only do I object to the federal government bailing out companies, I also think it is bad policy to use taxpayer dollars to make risky investments.
An example of a poor policy....Recently the federal reserve pumped almost one trillion dollars into the stock and bond markets as a means to prop up these markets. The immediate result is a weaker dollar which has caused commodity prices to rise rapidly. All the while the fed refuses to allow even the slightest increase in interest rates which further weakens the USD.
You object to US government policy regarding money going to business, yet you give a hall pass to the current administration for doing exactly that. You can't have it both ways.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So far, "Wicked Jester's" whole argument is based on the unproven assumption that the public sector unions' "bloated benefits and pensions" are the root cause of Wisconsin's budget problems.

The onus is on him to provide convincing proof that this is indeed the case - saying the same thing over and over doesn't constitute proof.

The reason why public worker wages and benefits are being targeted is because for the first time taxpayers are being made aware of the expense of them and of course the support system for the wages and benefits has been up until now unassailable.
Public workers have existed in an insulated protected world where their wages and benefits have been considered sacrosanct entitlements.
In other words, the public worker has never had to suffer the same sacrifices as those in the private sector. It's time for the public worker to take is his bite at the same shit sandwich the rest of us have been munching on for the last three years.

 

[rikules]

Walker inherited this mess from a bunch of Democrats and is doing what he has to do to fix it, he won the election, get over it moonbats........

and THAT is what happened to Obama...


he inherited this mess from a bunch of republicans

who, from the day obama took office, continued to thwart all his efforts to fix the mess

while BLAMING obama for the mess in the first place....

 

[Zander]

Walker inherited this mess from a bunch of Democrats and is doing what he has to do to fix it, he won the election, get over it moonbats........

and THAT is what happened to Obama...


he inherited this mess from a bunch of republicans

who, from the day obama took office, continued to thwart all his efforts to fix the mess

while BLAMING obama for the mess in the first place....

Both parties are to blame for the mess that Obama inherited. You seem to have forgotten that the Democrats have held majorities in the House and Senate since 2008, so a good portion of the "mess" that Obama inherited was a "mess" that his own party created.

Walker, Wisonsin Governor, took over from a Democrat Congress and Democrat Governor in a state that has long favored Democrats. Wisconsin has voted for the Democratic presidential nominee in the last six elections.

 

[Claudette]

Walker inherited this mess from a bunch of Democrats and is doing what he has to do to fix it, he won the election, get over it moonbats........

and THAT is what happened to Obama...


he inherited this mess from a bunch of republicans

who, from the day obama took office, continued to thwart all his efforts to fix the mess

while BLAMING obama for the mess in the first place....

LMAO so the Dems had nothing to do with it then or now??

WOW You sound just like TDM. Two horses asses. (sorry Red)

 

[Cecilie1200]

I seem to be on the OP's side but what kind of thread does not even have a simple link? Are we just taking your word for it or is getting a transcript/video not possible yet?

"Conservatives" rarely provide links and when they do, its usually from less than reliable sources!

Conservatives take "the-line-if-least-resistance" strategy - making unsubstantiated accusations is easier than researching the facts, so as long as they flood the forum with accusations faster than the opposition can research them, conservatives will always find themselves ahead of the game!

Leftists rarely discuss the topic. They prefer to select one minor sentence that's extraneous to the main topic, pitch a hissy fit about it, and then get all of their little ***** friends to come pitch hissy fits about it in the hopes that they'll utterly bury the main topic under pages and pages of "Give me a link proving this irrelevant and inane point!" I assume this is because they're too damned dumb to discuss the actual topic and don't want their asses handed to them.

Now that we have identified and discussed the REAL purpose behind this post and all the others nattering witlessly on about how there's "no link", please do us all the favor of either addressing the actual topic, or shutting the **** up with your annoying attempt at thread derailment. You are not going to prevent others from discussing how much civil servant unions suck the big, hairy root, so give it up.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Shorter Walker:

Come back or we screw the teachers.

Gotta love Republicans...extortionists until the end.

I thought Walker was saying come back and vote on legislation, the way the people of WI elected you to do.




You missing that aspect?

I heard, "Get your ass back to work for your constituents, or you will be making them suffer for your neglect, and they will know it."

Which is dead-on true, and I frankly hope he has the balls to allow the idiots who elected those schmucks to suffer the consequences for their shitty, frivolous voting decisions. Maybe they'll start voting for the best interests of their states, instead of trying to vote themselves money from other people's pockets.

 

[Provocateur]

so no link....

The Official Pokémon Website | Pokemon.com

 

[Cecilie1200]

http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30631.pdf

Now heres something that could make you cream in your jeans.

Gee whiz, i worked for 45 years under SS full time and many years I maxed out on my share. after all this i get 1600.00 a month for ss at 62 and since I went at 59 1/2 on my pension i got 800.00 for 34 years of service.

Wrong job, should be a sentator or congressman or gov.
Has anyone asked Gov. Walker how much his pension is going to be for being a state employee?

Has anyone asked YOU, "So the **** what?" I don't doubt for a second that you made bad career decisions and bad choices in preparation for retirement, but that has ****-all to do with what anyone else does or should have. And no, despite the tripe and propaganda being spread by the left, no one is trying to prevent civil servants in Wisconsin from having pensions and benefits. They're just refusing to tolerate the union stranglehold on negotiations for them. Wisconsin schools and state government buildings are not about to become a re-enactment of the workhouse from "Oliver Twist".

 

[Cecilie1200]

...... There are 13 states with no collective bargaining rights for public workers; eight of them have larger budget shortfalls than does Wisconsin. In Texas, for example, a non-collective bargaining state whose low-tax, "open for business" economic policies are vaunted by the right, the state's deficit as a percentage of the total budget is over twice that of Wisconsin's.

You heard it here first: Tax the rich and solve budget shortfall - JSOnline

If eliminating collective bargaining rights of public service employees is the solution, why do 8 of the 13 states that have already "gone down this road," currently have "larger budget shortfalls" than Wisconsin?

You DO know there's a lot more to a state government budget than just salaries and benefits for the employees, right? This is just off the top of my head, but perhaps those other states have OTHER problems going on that are ******* up their budgets? Hmm? Is that at all possible?

If "bloated benefits and pensions (that) are the main cause of the problem," why did Governor Walker target some public sector unions and not all of them?

I can only assume you're trying to quote Governor Walker in this paragraph, so the answer is, in his own words, that the unions he excluded are safety services. He considers the possibility of leaving the public without those services for even a day to be unacceptable. And for all I know, THEY may not have insanely bloated benefits written into their contracts. I don't live in Wisconsin, so I couldn't tell you.

Does the fact that the police and fire departments endorsed Walker during the last election mean their benefits and pensions are any less "bloated" than those of the teachers?

Since most police and firefighter unions apparently DIDN'T endorse him, it seems that has nothing whatsoever to do with it. This HAS been reported, you know. Perhaps you should visit some REAL news sources once in a while.

 

[jgarden]

So far, "Wicked Jester's" whole argument is based in the unproven assumption that the public sector unions "bloated benefits and pensions" are at the root cause of Wisconsin's budget deficit.

The onus is on him to provide proof that this is indeed the case.

So far, you are refusing to understand that it is a PART of the problem that needs to be addressed......Governor Walker has already made the case so, the onus is not on me.

Lets face the REAL facts. It's now time for the public sector unions and its members to bite the proverbial bullet. Like in many states, their bloated pensions and benefits are no longer sustainable.........Nobody is taking their pay, benefits or pensions. They can still collectively bargain for pay. Benefits and pensions will now be off the table. They are just going to have to live with what they've agreed to, and not try to thug the state for more down the line. Those Benefit and pension plans are what most in the private sector can only dream of.

You can ignore all the evidence. Go ahead........You're a tax and spend liberal. That's your solution to everything. Doesn't matter what is presented, like the troofers and birfers, it will be ignored because it goes against everything you believe in.

What evidence, all you've provided is "spin" and 2nd hand "spin" at that - no sources, no links, no references, no detailed economic analysis, etc.

If you trace the "money trail" supporting Walker's campaign back to its major contributors, however, it becomes pretty obvious who is providing the Governor with his marching orders and whose best interests are being protected!

KochPAC Natural Resources
Wal-Mart Stores/WAL-PAC
Kwik Trip
M&I Bank
Miller/Coors
AT&T Wisconsin Employee PAC (formerly SBC)
Deere & Company PAC - WI
TDS Telecom
Managed Health Services/Centene PAC
Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance
Eli Lilly and Company PAC
Briggs & Stratton
Burlington Northern Santa Fe...
Salomon Smith Barney
US Oil Co

http://becauseican-2old2care.blogspot.com/2011/02/koch-walmart-and-scott-walker.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x449772

 

[Cecilie1200]

So far, "Wicked Jester's" whole argument is based in the unproven assumption that the public sector unions "bloated benefits and pensions" are at the root cause of Wisconsin's budget deficit.

The onus is on him to provide proof that this is indeed the case.

So far, you are refusing to understand that it is a PART of the problem that needs to be addressed......Governor Walker has already made the case so, the onus is not on me.

Lets face the REAL facts. It's now time for the public sector unions and its members to bite the proverbial bullet. Like in many states, their bloated pensions and benefits are no longer sustainable.........Nobody is taking their pay, benefits or pensions. They can still collectively bargain for pay. Benefits and pensions will now be off the table. They are just going to have to live with what they've agreed to, and not try to thug the state for more down the line. Those Benefit and pension plans are what most in the private sector can only dream of.

You can ignore all the evidence. Go ahead........You're a tax and spend liberal. That's your solution to everything. Doesn't matter what is presented, like the troofers and birfers, it will be ignored because it goes against everything you believe in.

What evidence - all you've provided is "spin" and 2nd hand spin at that!

If you trace the "money trail" supporting Walker's campaign back to its major contributors, it becomes pretty obvious who is providing the Governor with his marching orders and whose best interests are veing protected!

KochPAC Natural Resources
Wal-Mart Stores/WAL-PAC
Kwik Trip
M&I Bank
Miller/Coors
AT&T Wisconsin Employee PAC (formerly SBC)
Deere & Company PAC - WI
TDS Telecom
Managed Health Services/Centene PAC
Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance
Eli Lilly and Company PAC
Briggs & Stratton
Burlington Northern Santa Fe...
Salomon Smith Barney
US Oil Co

Speaking of "secondhand spin", would you mind telling us your source for this list of alleged backers?

 

[Sallow]

For you tax and spend liberals who think that raising taxes is the solution to all the problems, just look at California. We are taxed to death on just about everything, and look at what it's gotten us.......Liberals, outta control spending, bloated public sector union pay and benefits, have destroyed this great state financially. This state is loaded with the people that liberals despise most, the rich. Those making a mil or more are taxed around 11%. And we are the most vulnerable state in the country for complete economic collapse. In fact, it's already happened.

California voted themselves all kinds of restrictions on taxation..a 3 strikes law..and very few cuts in services. The dirty little secret is the prison population exploded and it's extremely expensive. Couple that with European style social services and you've got a problem.

It's simple math. If revenues don't match expenses..either you raise revenues or cut expenses.

 

[Sallow]

That was Neocons and then the Republican party split... Do we really have to go over this shit again? I mean so many liberals were sooOoo happy when the Republican party had broken into two.

Why do you make it out to be "conservatives" that have done all of this bad stuff? Dems voted for it too and going off Obama's record we can thank Dems for more wars, torture and expanded homeland security... And deficits lol... Dems (Senate/house/President) are Bush and his Neocons...

Sorry..disowning Conservatives doesn't make them less Conservative. Because of the Vietnam escalation..I hold Johnson as one of the worst American presidents. And I don't ever say he was anything other then Liberal.

Bush calls himself a Neocon... So why would I or anyone care how you rate someone?

I fully understand the lines and definitions are very blurred, it makes debate seem near impossible these days. But again, if by policy Bush and Obama are lets just say 85% similar, does that make Bush's policies harder to attack as a liberal being it would seem you have to agree somewhere?

I mean, take all the big issues.

Health care: Obama (Obamacare) - Bush (Medicare part D)

Wars: Obama (expands Iraq and Afghanistan) - Bush (Starts Iraq and Afghanistan)

Illegal Immigration: Obama (Amnesty) - Bush (Amnesty)

Homeland security: Obama (expands) - Bush (starts)

Bail outs: Obama (Does) - Bush (Does)

Stimulus: Obama (Does) - Bush (Does)

Education: Obama (Expands) - Bush (Expands)

Taxes: Obama (Tax credits and Bush Tax cuts) - Bush (Tax credits and Bush tax cuts)


I mean, these are just some of the most major issues out there, I'm sure there are more... They are like the same fuckin person. So, Is Obama a conservative or is Bush a Liberal?

That's the thing. You can't abruptly end things initiated by a previous administration without causing a great deal of damage. In any case. Bush..is and represented himself as a conservative.

And conservatives honored him..

 

[Uncensored2008]

The dirty little secret is the prison population exploded and it's extremely expensive. Couple that with European style social services and you've got a problem.

When the prison guard union is the major force pulling the strings of the corrupt democrats, there is going to be a huge prison population.

The $300,000 salaries that prison guards in California get, render a whole lot of kickbacks. While the dims are wholly corrupt, the Repubs aren't a whole lot better - Arnie was racking in the prison guard bribes with both hands.

 

[Wicked Jester]

So far, "Wicked Jester's" whole argument is based in the unproven assumption that the public sector unions "bloated benefits and pensions" are at the root cause of Wisconsin's budget deficit.

The onus is on him to provide proof that this is indeed the case.

So far, you are refusing to understand that it is a PART of the problem that needs to be addressed......Governor Walker has already made the case so, the onus is not on me.

Lets face the REAL facts. It's now time for the public sector unions and its members to bite the proverbial bullet. Like in many states, their bloated pensions and benefits are no longer sustainable.........Nobody is taking their pay, benefits or pensions. They can still collectively bargain for pay. Benefits and pensions will now be off the table. They are just going to have to live with what they've agreed to, and not try to thug the state for more down the line. Those Benefit and pension plans are what most in the private sector can only dream of.

You can ignore all the evidence. Go ahead........You're a tax and spend liberal. That's your solution to everything. Doesn't matter what is presented, like the troofers and birfers, it will be ignored because it goes against everything you believe in.

What evidence, all you've provided is "spin" and 2nd hand "spin" at that - no sources, no links, no references, no detailed economic analysis, etc.

If you trace the "money trail" supporting Walker's campaign back to its major contributors, however, it becomes pretty obvious who is providing the Governor with his marching orders and whose best interests are being protected!

KochPAC Natural Resources
Wal-Mart Stores/WAL-PAC
Kwik Trip
M&I Bank
Miller/Coors
AT&T Wisconsin Employee PAC (formerly SBC)
Deere & Company PAC - WI
TDS Telecom
Managed Health Services/Centene PAC
Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance
Eli Lilly and Company PAC
Briggs & Stratton
Burlington Northern Santa Fe...
Salomon Smith Barney
US Oil Co

Because I Can: Koch, WalMart and Scott Walker
List of Walker contributors for boycotting - Democratic Underground

LMAO!

I provided a link from Forbes that clearly shows that 2 years ago the writing was already on the wall concerning bloated benefits and pensions that were already unsustainable in many states nationwide.

You then tried to put up a link stating that Wisconsin Public service workers made less than the private sector......I then put up a link from 3/1 USA Today analysis that clearly showed your link to be complete BS.

Ands now, you try to throw up BS from 2 liberal sites, and try to run with it.......It ain't happenin'

YOU'VE FAILED!

 

[Provocateur]

For you tax and spend liberals who think that raising taxes is the solution to all the problems, just look at California. We are taxed to death on just about everything, and look at what it's gotten us.......Liberals, outta control spending, bloated public sector union pay and benefits, have destroyed this great state financially. This state is loaded with the people that liberals despise most, the rich. Those making a mil or more are taxed around 11%. And we are the most vulnerable state in the country for complete economic collapse. In fact, it's already happened.

California voted themselves all kinds of restrictions on taxation..a 3 strikes law..and very few cuts in services. The dirty little secret is the prison population exploded and it's extremely expensive. Couple that with European style social services and you've got a problem.

It's simple math. If revenues don't match expenses..either you raise revenues or cut expenses.

Probably worth pursuing in its own thread. 1/3 of prison occupants in CA are illegals. They are collapsing the education system. Perhaps Jerry Brown will start to look at the teacher pensions in CA. He will ignore the illegals in the teacher's classroom, however.

If liberals want to embrace illegals, the law abiding people will pay.

The cost of harboring illegal immigrants in the United States is a staggering $113 billion a year -- an average of $1,117 for every “native-headed” household in America -- according to a study conducted by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR).

Moreover, the study’s breakdown of costs on a state-by-state basis shows that in states with the largest number of illegals, the costs of illegal immigration are often greater than current, crippling budget deficits. In Texas, for example, the additional cost of immigration, $16.4 billion, is equal to the state’s current budget deficit; in California the additional cost of illegal immigration, $21.8 billion, is $8 billion more than the state’s current budget deficit of $13.8 billion; and in New York, the $6.8 billion deficit is roughly two-thirds the $9.5 billion yearly cost of its illegal population, according to Jack Martin, the researcher who completed the study.

Read more: FoxNews.com - Illegal Immigration Costs U.S. $113 Billion a Year, Study Finds

 

[Wicked Jester]

The dirty little secret is the prison population exploded and it's extremely expensive. Couple that with European style social services and you've got a problem.

When the prison guard union is the major force pulling the strings of the corrupt democrats, there is going to be a huge prison population.

The $300,000 salaries that prison guards in California get, render a whole lot of kickbacks. While the dims are wholly corrupt, the Repubs aren't a whole lot better - Arnie was racking in the prison guard bribes with both hands.

Arnie was a wolf in sheeps in clothing..........A lib trying to pose as a con.

Just look at his policies. They tell the tale.

 

[Provocateur]

The dirty little secret is the prison population exploded and it's extremely expensive. Couple that with European style social services and you've got a problem.

When the prison guard union is the major force pulling the strings of the corrupt democrats, there is going to be a huge prison population.

The $300,000 salaries that prison guards in California get, render a whole lot of kickbacks. While the dims are wholly corrupt, the Repubs aren't a whole lot better - Arnie was racking in the prison guard bribes with both hands.

Arnie was a wolf in sheeps in clothing..........A lib trying to pose as a con.

Just look at his policies. They tell the tale.

His environmental act of 2006 crippled CA.

His not figuring out how to get the water turned back on to central CA was a nail in the coffin.