Waffen-SS Soldiers Guarded the Nuremberg Trials

[westwall]

Same for the German Navy.
The majority of enlisted sailors and most officers were not members of the Nazi party.

I have never seen a picture of a sailor with a Party badge.

 

[odanny]

The Waffen SS was not the "SS". They actually had a rather good reputation of treatment of others, and not taking part in the war crimes of the SS.

Seriously dude? Which particular divisions had this "good reputation of treatment"?

 

[westwall]

Seriously dude? Which particular divisions had this "good reputation of treatment"?

The 9th and 10th have excellent reputations. During Market Garden the commander of the 9th SS suspended the battle for hours so that the British paratroopers could tend to their wounded.

They also took over 150 of the worst cases and treated them and in fact saved their lives.

The 10th was likewise chivalrous during the battle.

 

[odanny]

The 9th and 10th have excellent reputations.

The 9th and 10th are both Panzer Divisions, Frundsberg and Hohenstaufen. Both were formed in 1943 from conscripts, and did not have the early Eastern Front experiences, nor the same indoctrination.

 

[westwall]

The 9th and 10th are both Panzer Divisions, Frundsberg and Hohenstaufen. Both were formed in 1943 from conscripts, and did not have the early Eastern Front experiences, nor the same indoctrination.

Yes, both SS PANZER DIVISIONS.. ALL SS divisions were formed from volunteers. And 5th SS ONLY fought on the eastern front and likewise has no atrocities associated with it. And, as you can see, the 9th also fought in the east, Ukraine to be exact.

DURRRRRRRRRRR

 

[odanny]

Yes, both SS PANZER DIVISIONS..

I know they are both SS Panzer divisions, stupid. They were also small, less than 20,000 soldiers in each. That's a small sample size, but not small enough for you to keep from a little revisionist history.

DURRRRRRRRR

 

[westwall]

I know they are both SS Panzer divisions, stupid. They were also small, less than 20,000 soldiers in each. That's a small sample size, but not small enough for you to keep from a little revisionist history.

DURRRRRRRRR

Ummm, that's because they were PANZER DIVISIONS. Stupid. Tank units are ALWAYS smaller than infantry units, moron, because they use TANKS! Dipshit!

I am revising nothing. I am reporting factual history, which you are quite ignorant of, idiot.

 

[Mushroom]

ALL SS divisions were formed from volunteers.

Only those initial units formed in Germany, and occupied Western Europe.

However, that was not the case of the Waffen SS units formed in occupied countries like Latvia, Estonia, Croatia, Ukraine, Russia, and other Eastern European nations.

 

[Mushroom]

They were also small, less than 20,000 soldiers in each.

Actually, since a typical division only numbers from 10-15,000, I would argue that a 20,000 man division is exceptionally large.

 

[westwall]

Only those initial units formed in Germany, and occupied Western Europe.

However, that was not the case of the Waffen SS units formed in occupied countries like Latvia, Estonia, Croatia, Ukraine, Russia, and other Eastern European nations.

Actually, it is. The Estonian volunteers were particularly noteworthy. To get into the SS you had to volunteer, and they had to accept you. Remember, they had standards.

Towards the end of the war they lowered their standards and even offered condemned prisoners Pardons if they volunteered for suicide missions like the two penal battalions that made up the SS Parachute Battalions that went after Tito.

 

[westwall]

Actually, since a typical division only numbers from 10-15,000, I would argue that a 20,000 man division is exceptionally large.

Yup. SS divisions had 6 instead of 4 infantry battalions as standard. The one exception was the German Army Division Grossdeutschland, which was almost double the strength of a normal division.

 

[Mushroom]

Yup. SS divisions had 6 instead of 4 infantry battalions as standard. The one exception was the German Army Division Grossdeutschland, which was almost double the strength of a normal division.

Of course, most people also have no idea how many people are actually in a "division", let alone a "corps" or "army" when talking about field units.

One other that tends to be higher than normal is a US Marine Division. That is because they are self-contained, heavy (2-3 regiments of 4-5 battalions each) and include more organic support than a similar sized organization in the Army.

However, it is not the divisions, as a division with 4 (or even 6) battalions would be not even really be a division. That is actually the size of most regiments. Most divisions are much larger than "6 divisions". For example, a current US Marine Division is composed of 17 battalions.

For example, the 1st Panzer Division SS was composed of a panzer regiment, 2 panzergrenadier regiments, an artillery regiment, an assault gun regiment, and 6 battalions ranging from recon and tank destroyer to anti-aircraft and rocket. The Panzergrenadier regiments would be the equivalent of an "Infantry Regiment", so of course that would be normally 6 Battalions.

But also, the Panzer Divisions were a unique thing.

But more traditional "Infantry" organizations like the 5th SS Wiking (a "Panzer Division" with no tanks) had 3 regiments of panzergrenadiers. Germania, Nordland, and Westland each of 3 battalions making a total of 9 infantry battalions. In addition to a regiment of artillery and all the other support battalions.

 

[westwall]

Of course, most people also have no idea how many people are actually in a "division", let alone a "corps" or "army" when talking about field units.

One other that tends to be higher than normal is a US Marine Division. That is because they are self-contained, heavy (2-3 regiments of 4-5 battalions each) and include more organic support than a similar sized organization in the Army.

However, it is not the divisions, as a division with 4 (or even 6) battalions would be not even really be a division. That is actually the size of most regiments. Most divisions are much larger than "6 divisions". For example, a current US Marine Division is composed of 17 battalions.

For example, the 1st Panzer Division SS was composed of a panzer regiment, 2 panzergrenadier regiments, an artillery regiment, an assault gun regiment, and 6 battalions ranging from recon and tank destroyer to anti-aircraft and rocket. The Panzergrenadier regiments would be the equivalent of an "Infantry Regiment", so of course that would be normally 6 Battalions.

But also, the Panzer Divisions were a unique thing.

But more traditional "Infantry" organizations like the 5th SS Wiking (a "Panzer Division" with no tanks) had 3 regiments of panzergrenadiers. Germania, Nordland, and Westland each of 3 battalions making a total of 9 infantry battalions. In addition to a regiment of artillery and all the other support battalions.

Wiking had a panzer regiment as part of of its TOE. IIRC it was 5th SS Panzer Regiment, and there are some pretty well known pictures of their Panther tanks on operations.

 

[Mushroom]

Wiking had a panzer regiment as part of of its TOE. IIRC it was 5th SS Panzer Regiment, and there are some pretty well known pictures of their Panther tanks on operations.

They did, but unlike a "traditional" Panzer Division which had Panzer Regiments, the 5th had a Panzer Battalion, rarely having more than 2 dozen tanks.

And again, this is akin to a US Marine Division, which until recently also had just a single tank battalion.

I often wondered on the 5th SS, and find it curious. As it was named a "Panzer Division", but was actually organized and equipped like an Infantry Division. Was that because of lack of equipment and experienced people to run it? Disinformation (akin to "Seal Team 6" - when there were only 2 SEAL teams prior), or plans to make it so that never developed I really don't know. But it also must be remembered that unlike traditional Army infantry units, the Wiking was a "Motorized Infantry" unit. So even the Regiments had organic mechanized transport and light tanks.

Which would make it more akin to a modern Cavalry unit than a traditional infantry one of WWII.

 

[Ringo]

Herluf Bidstrup. "Denazification". 1950.