Virginia Kindergarten Teacher shot

[XponentialChaos]

I acknowledged it had already been done. Restorative Justice had never been done before and now we have escalating violence against teachers.

Restorative justice meaning what, specifically?

 

[Coyote]

You don't understand. Public schools is the DNC, so you can never lay blame there

The blame is always the parents, as soon all children may one day be wards of the state.

Notice how private schools never have this problem. Granted, you had a shooting in Tennessee at a private school, but it was not one of the students.

The parents owned the gun and were responsible for it and for safely storing it. It has nothing to do politics.

 

[Coyote]

Should we accept that kids have limited rights and limited responsibilities, and if a kid does something, the parents should be punished for it, the same as if an adult had committed the crime?

Depends on if the parents negligence contributed.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Restorative justice meaning what, specifically?

What are you going to propose to fix the problem of 6 year olds from assaulting their teachers and school districts leaving victimized teachers to hang?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Depends on if the parents negligence contributed.

And how do you define that?

If a parent locks up a gun, locks up the bullets, and the kid gets the gun anyway, and goes to school and shoots someone, did the parent's education lead to the kid disrespecting rules at home? Did the parent's education (or lack of) lead to the kid knowing where the gun was and knowing how to open the lock? Did the parent's education lead to this? How do you gather evidence of this?
And as soon as one lot of parents get off from these arguments, the whole law will be pointless anyway.

How much do you attribute to society too? What's the impact of society? Parents might then go blame society for their own upbringing.

 

[XponentialChaos]

What are you going to propose to fix the problem of 6 year olds from assaulting their teachers and school districts leaving victimized teachers to hang?

You already asked me that and I already answered. Go back and read.

Why did you avoid answering what you mean by “restorative justice“?

 

[Woodznutz]

Indeed! So would I. Wouldn't we all?
However, in the context of this discussion ---- an 'accident' is NOT a 6yr old finding Granpa's loaded gun in the nightstand and a tragedy happens. Nor is it a 15yr old rifling through neighborhood cars and snatching a Glock21 from under the seat of a nearby pickup --- and a tragedy happens.

An 'accident' is dropping a gun and it discharges. An accident is shooting at a deer and the bullet hits an unseen hunter 200yrds away.

My point is: Guns are inherently dangerous. Like poison is inherently dangerous. Like explosives are. Like powerful drugs. And thus, extraordinary measures are required to secure them.

Punishing such tragedies is a slippery slope. What should the punishment be for a child that drowns in a backyard pool?

https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/Pool_or_Spa_Submersion_Estimated_Nonfatal_Drowning_Injuries_and_Reported_Drownings_May_2021.pdf#:~:text=There%20were%2C%20on%20average%2C%20an%20estimated%206%2C200%20pool-,involving%20children%20younger%20than%2015%20years%20of%20age.

 

[Chillicothe]

"What should the punishment be for a child that drowns in a backyard pool?"

As far as punishing parents, grandparents, any relative....or neighbors who have a child die in their pool.......that depends. Was there negligence? Egregious negligence? I ain't a lawyer but I totally expect that there are multitudes of negligence ---or criminal --case law that have addressed that very issue vis-a-vis drownings in backyard swimming pools.

But pools ain't guns. And guns ain't pools.
They are different.

Guns are inherently dangerous due to their lethality, portability, concealability, and ease-of-use. Everybody knows that. Except maybe young children. Accordingly, ownership of guns demands an extra level of care...by several factors.... than does ownership of say, kitchen knives or golf clubs, both of which have been used to kill.

And that is my point: Guns are markedly different. Far different than other elements, tools, substances in our human interactions with the world. Accordingly, gun ownership needs be imbued with a much much higher level of responsibility. And, liability when the fired gun harms innocents.

 

[Chillicothe]

If a parent locks up a gun, locks up the bullets, and the kid gets the gun anyway, and goes to school and shoots someone, did the parent's education lead to the kid disrespecting rules at home?

Putting aside the question above about the parent's educational level as it is irrelevant in the approach to 'strict liability'.
Surely it is conceivable in our world that Grandpa's gun could be stolen by his grandson. Some kids are inquisitive enough, creative enough, mendacious enough.....to expend great effort in stealing Grandpa's gun despite Grandpa's efforts.

Regardless, as the owner of record he should have strict liability. If the kid secures it and offs the Amazon driver then --ipso facto --Granpa did not do enough. THAT is strict liability.

Those tragedies will happen. But overall the implementation of 'strict liability' will ---in my opinion ---greatly enhance the measures and the reality of securing firearms. When the owner-of-record brings that tool into our society he must know his liability for any harms from it go to a much much higher level. It is not merely another faux-macho toy to pose with the family for their Christmas cards.

 

[Lesh]

Small quibble but she was a first grade teacher. And yes, while the mother is somewhat at fault, the school admin WERE TOLD about the gun and did nothing. It's awful--and could have been tragic.

SOMEWHAT AT FAULT???

How does a six year old get access to a gun? There is no scenario that makes the parents/owners of that gun the responsible party here.

Yes the school is also at fault but there would have been NO incident had not the parents been negligent

 

[Woodznutz]

As far as punishing parents, grandparents, any relative....or neighbors who have a child die in their pool.......that depends. Was there negligence? Egregious negligence? I ain't a lawyer but I totally expect that there are multitudes of negligence ---or criminal --case law that have addressed that very issue vis-a-vis drownings in backyard swimming pools.

But pools ain't guns. And guns ain't pools.
They are different.

Guns are inherently dangerous due to their lethality, portability, concealability, and ease-of-use. Everybody knows that. Except maybe young children. Accordingly, ownership of guns demands an extra level of care...by several factors.... than does ownership of say, kitchen knives or golf clubs, both of which have been used to kill.

And that is my point: Guns are markedly different. Far different than other elements, tools, substances in our human interactions with the world. Accordingly, gun ownership needs be imbued with a much much higher level of responsibility. And, liability when the fired gun harms innocents.

I would think that loss of a child through one's own negligence is punishment in and of itself. The leading causes of accidental death of young children is drowning and vehicle crashes, by a wide margin over firearm deaths.

Unfortunately, 'children' that have long since reached the age of accountability are included in death-by-gun statistics of 'children'.

 

[Woodznutz]

Regardless, as the owner of record he should have strict liability. If the kid secures it and offs the Amazon driver then --ipso facto --Granpa did not do enough. THAT is strict liability.

Don't we have laws that cover that now?

 

[Woodznutz]

What are you going to propose to fix the problem of 6 year olds from assaulting their teachers and school districts leaving victimized teachers to hang?

Arm and train the teachers so they have a fighting chance in a shootout with their second-graders.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

The fault is the effing parents.

What parents, you idiot? This amoeba had a muvah only who is a neosegregationist pothead. Par for the democrat course. You abet this crime, moron.