Virginia Forces Christian Ministries to Adopt 'Government Ideology' or Pay $100K

[Andylusion]

Discrimination is not part of our American values. Discrimination against LGBTs is part of the "Christian values" only of certain varieties of the Christian faith. Not all. Nor are people of various religions entitled to more or superior rights to those to which other citizens are entitled, regardless of who they are. Every member of every religion must come to terms with how to observe the tenets of their faith and the requirements of the law simultaneously. There is no reason to allow anyone to transfer this burden onto other people. People forget that in cases such as these, LGBTs would bear the burden of a "government ideology," even though they are not responsible for what someone else believes.

Lots of words for forcing your beliefs on a religious organization despite their beliefs to the contrary.

Compromise is not possible with SJW morons like you, if it were we would all be better off.

How do you "compromise" when all it means is that everybody has to bow down to you? These shit-for-brains types are trying to force their beliefs on the rest of us. Sorry, we don't scapegoat a whole group of people or try to exclude them from general society just because some cults don't like them. LGBTs are NOT RESPONSIBLE for whatever beliefs someone else chooses to have. Beliefs are a choice. They should not become a government ideology. BTW: I'm proud to be an "SJW." It sure beats the alternative of being a warrior for social injustice.

How is forcing a church or religious school to hire say a secretary who lives a lifestyle that doesn't agree with said church or schools teachings making everyone "bow down"

This is the same bullshit as forcing the bakers to bake for Same sex weddings, it's not about fairness, it's about forced acceptance.

The force here is on the government, not on the school or church.

SJW's are today's fascists, really something to be proud of. You are just as bad as those Moral Majority assholes back in the 80's going after rock music.

Would you have the same response if someone refused to hire a Southern Baptist based on the chosen lifestyle of members of this "Christian" denomination, their love of discrimination, and their attacks on the rights of others, or refused to bake a cake for them?

If said organization had as one of it's religious tenets that southern baptism was sinful?

Yes.

Why is it such a requirement that SJW's have to have everyone not just tolerate others, but accept others OR ELSE.

Free exercise is a thing in this country, despite your ignorance of it.

Should the Catholic Church be forced to accept women priests, or gay priests, or Lutherans as priests?

One does not have to be a member of an organized religion to have a sincerely held belief. I personally find the southern baptist lifestyle and many of this religion's teachings unacceptable and reprehensible, but I would still have to serve them under the public accommodation laws and tolerate them if they served along with me in some public/governmental capacity. In other words, I would have to "tolerate" them. Accepting them would mean that I was being forced to mingle with them socially.
.
Every religious group is free to choose their officers and exclude others, as you mentioned with the Catholic Church. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 has a ministerial exemption. But is person who disapproves of a religious group's exclusionary policies or is a member of an excluded group allowed to discriminate against this religious group, refuse to "tolerate" or "accept" members of this group, refuse to hire them or refuse to serve them? This also would be "free exercise."

Do you tolerate or accept every sincerely held belief of every individual and religion?

This is an awkward and confusing situation. Some of these religions make blanket statements about women and about LGBTs, not just women or LGBTs who are members of their congregations. In these circumstances, how are women and LGBTs to protect themselves and their own freedom?

That's a hollow statement because they aren't forcing you to do anything with them. Why should a Church be forced to hire a cross dressing Satanist gay secretary?

Sorry, but free exercise isn't limited to the clergy or just Churches.

What is the good of that?

The issue boils down to you being a fucking busybody asshole who wants to force everyone to be JUST LIKE YOU.

I just SAID that free exercise isn't limited to the clergy or just Churches. I also said that the 1964 CRA has a ministerial exception.

The standard that applies in public-accommodation laws is not whether someone is being forced to do anything with them. It is a matter of providing the goods and services that the person advertises to the public as being available. If you don't, it's false advertising.

Would you have the same response if someone refused to hire a Southern Baptist based on the chosen lifestyle of members of this "Christian" denomination, their love of discrimination, and their attacks on the rights of others, or refused to bake a cake for them?

So you think Planned Parenthood should have to hire anit-abortionist to be counselors in their clinics? Really?????????????

.

No. An anti-abortion person would, by definition, not be neutral on the abortion issue, and therefore, would not be able to meet the requirements of the job.

Really? So an anti-abortion person, could not possible sit at the entrance desk, and conduct the position effectively? Sure they could. Of course they could.

But of course, if every time a lady came in, she wept for the child whose head was about to be torn off by a 'doctor', I wager that would cause some people to rethinking murdering their child, and that would be a problem for the pro-murder left-wingers at the clinic.

We have something in this country called "Freedom of Association". Which is part of Article 11 of the Bill of Rights.

What is freedom of association?

To give a simple definition....

Freedom of association - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Freedom of association encompasses both an individual's right to join or leave groups voluntarily, the right of the group to take collective action to pursue the interests of its members, and the right of an association to accept or decline membership based on certain criteria.

Simply put, it is unconstitutional, and evil, for you to dictate who I must associate with, whether I am an individual choose to, or not to, involve myself with a group of other people, or if I'm the owner of an organization, and telling me who I must hire, and allow into my organization.

The problem with left-wingers is, they never put themselves in the position they demand others be in.

If in the name of tolerance the most racist and evil person in the country (I don't know who that would be) David Duke or someone, was required by law for the DNC to allow him to speak at the convention... suddenly you would be a big fan of Freedom of Association.

But because you can live in a hypocritical world, where the rules of tolerance only apply to others, you can therefore pretend that other people don't have to the rights to choose who they associate with.

Commerce is regulated differently than social associations to serve the common good and preserve an open marketplace. A kosher deli, for instance, is not required to stock pork products. But if it does, it can't pick and choose whom to sell them to. If you don't want to associate with some people when you are out in public generally, do as other groups do, like the Amish and the ultra-orthodox Jews. They both seem to have been successful in establishing relatively insular communities and limiting their contacts with outsiders. I don't know of any law that would require any private organization to provide a forum for any outsider.

BTW: political views and affiliations are not covered by public-accommodation laws. Should they be?

It's ironic that you people claim freedom of association, even in a commercial context, and also scream about same-sex marriage, which clearly involves freedom of association.

I never claimed that anyone has to be just like me. The "fucking busybody asshole" who want to force everyone to be just like them are people like frankie graham and, it seems, you.

I disagree with that. My business is my property. I can do with my property as I see fit. If I don't want to serve you because you wear yellow pants, you should not be able to force me to serve you.

I don't agree with any public accommodation laws. You are not entitled to my service. Ever.

Further, I don't see any evidence that Franklin Graham wants to "force" anyone to do anything.

Now if you want to play act like you are married with someone that's the same sex, by all means do whatever you want.

But....

"I never claimed that anyone has to be just like me." you followed that up with a litany of screaming and bitching about people who are not like you.

Irony?

The bottom line is, you can do what you want.... but you don't get to force those views on others. Meaning, that if I have a Christian Wedding services company, like wedding cakes, hosting venues, or any other such service.... Christian weddings can't involve same-sex marriages, because same sex marriage doesn't exist in Christianity. We believe G-d created marriage between a man and woman. Period.

Not up for debate.

Whether left-wingers personally believe that or not, doesn't matter. We believe that and left-wingers claim to be tolerant, so they should shut their mouths, follow what they claim to be, and tolerate people of different views.

If they can't do that, then at least they should admit they are bigots themselves, and that they have no interest in tolerance, and then they at least wouldn't be hypocrites.

 

[danielpalos]

Dude, ease up on the pot.

What are you talking about? Drinking too much and have nothing but ad hominems instead of any valid reasoning.

No one is forcing alleged Christians to marry persons of the same sex. The problem is when the Laity want Religious authority to tell other people what to do. Show us by example not appeal to authority Original Sinners can never have.

 

[Coyote]

What the Democrats have in store nationally.

Three Christian schools and a Christian network of pregnancy centers are suing Attorney General Mark Herring (D-Va.) in order to prevent Virginia from implementing two pro-LGBT laws that force “people of faith to adopt a particular government ideology under threat of punishment.” The two laws purport to prevent “discrimination” against LGBT people but, in reality, they force Christian ministries to choose between violating their sincerely held religious beliefs or paying hefty fines, as much as $100,000 per offense.

Virginia Forces Christian Ministries to Adopt 'Government Ideology' or Pay $100K

Are they getting taxpayer funding?

 

[Andylusion]

What the Democrats have in store nationally.

Three Christian schools and a Christian network of pregnancy centers are suing Attorney General Mark Herring (D-Va.) in order to prevent Virginia from implementing two pro-LGBT laws that force “people of faith to adopt a particular government ideology under threat of punishment.” The two laws purport to prevent “discrimination” against LGBT people but, in reality, they force Christian ministries to choose between violating their sincerely held religious beliefs or paying hefty fines, as much as $100,000 per offense.

Virginia Forces Christian Ministries to Adopt 'Government Ideology' or Pay $100K

Are they getting taxpayer funding?

Every social security, medicare, food stamp, public housing, and Obama Phone user is getting tax payer funding.

Should we be able to dictate how every single person who gets money from the government, lives their lives?

Because if that's the standard, then I have a ton of rules I'd like to put in place.

 

[Andylusion]

Would the alleged Religious have any problems if they actually followed the example of Jesus the Christ? Original sinners should not be "casting any stones".

What would you know about Jesus?

I knows absolutely nothing about Jesus. None of them do.

 

[Coyote]

I don't remember Christ saying to treat people differently when it came to ministry.

I don't remember Christ telling people to use government force to make other people accept as legitimate certain "sinful" behaviors.

If you can cite an example, I will change my mind.

You quoted Jesus out of context

because He told the woman being stoned to “go and SIN no more.”

Yet, he did not expel her from forever having contact with him.

I see little Christianity in the actions of the Republican Party.

 

[Coyote]

What the Democrats have in store nationally.

Three Christian schools and a Christian network of pregnancy centers are suing Attorney General Mark Herring (D-Va.) in order to prevent Virginia from implementing two pro-LGBT laws that force “people of faith to adopt a particular government ideology under threat of punishment.” The two laws purport to prevent “discrimination” against LGBT people but, in reality, they force Christian ministries to choose between violating their sincerely held religious beliefs or paying hefty fines, as much as $100,000 per offense.

Virginia Forces Christian Ministries to Adopt 'Government Ideology' or Pay $100K

Are they getting taxpayer funding?

Every social security, medicare, food stamp, public housing, and Obama Phone user is getting tax payer funding.

Should we be able to dictate how every single person who gets money from the government, lives their lives?

Because if that's the standard, then I have a ton of rules I'd like to put in place.

If they get taxpayer funding they need to follow non discrimination laws. You don’t get to pick and choose what laws you want to follow, if you choose to take public funds.

 

[Andylusion]

What the Democrats have in store nationally.

Three Christian schools and a Christian network of pregnancy centers are suing Attorney General Mark Herring (D-Va.) in order to prevent Virginia from implementing two pro-LGBT laws that force “people of faith to adopt a particular government ideology under threat of punishment.” The two laws purport to prevent “discrimination” against LGBT people but, in reality, they force Christian ministries to choose between violating their sincerely held religious beliefs or paying hefty fines, as much as $100,000 per offense.

Virginia Forces Christian Ministries to Adopt 'Government Ideology' or Pay $100K

Are they getting taxpayer funding?

Every social security, medicare, food stamp, public housing, and Obama Phone user is getting tax payer funding.

Should we be able to dictate how every single person who gets money from the government, lives their lives?

Because if that's the standard, then I have a ton of rules I'd like to put in place.

If they get taxpayer funding they need to follow non discrimination laws. You don’t get to pick and choose what laws you want to follow, if you choose to take public funds.

The law is wrong. If you can take medicare, or any other funding, without following my demands about what you do with your life, then neither should any Christian organization.

On top of that, the right to free exercise of religion, is a fundamental aspect of this country. You don't get to demand how we follow our religious beliefs.

Now to be fair, I think we shouldn't have government funding anything. I would prefer a free-market capitalist system.

But if the government is going to hand out money, you don't get to give the money to people, and then after you give them money, say ok no you are required to do everything we want.

No, sorry, that's not how this works. The government is of the people, by the people, and religious people are part of that group.

And if you don't like it.... stuff it. I don't care. Tough. You don't get to be dictator.

 

[Coyote]

What the Democrats have in store nationally.

Three Christian schools and a Christian network of pregnancy centers are suing Attorney General Mark Herring (D-Va.) in order to prevent Virginia from implementing two pro-LGBT laws that force “people of faith to adopt a particular government ideology under threat of punishment.” The two laws purport to prevent “discrimination” against LGBT people but, in reality, they force Christian ministries to choose between violating their sincerely held religious beliefs or paying hefty fines, as much as $100,000 per offense.

Virginia Forces Christian Ministries to Adopt 'Government Ideology' or Pay $100K

Are they getting taxpayer funding?

Every social security, medicare, food stamp, public housing, and Obama Phone user is getting tax payer funding.

Should we be able to dictate how every single person who gets money from the government, lives their lives?

Because if that's the standard, then I have a ton of rules I'd like to put in place.

If they get taxpayer funding they need to follow non discrimination laws. You don’t get to pick and choose what laws you want to follow, if you choose to take public funds.

The law is wrong. If you can take medicare, or any other funding, without following my demands about what you do with your life, then neither should any Christian organization.

On top of that, the right to free exercise of religion, is a fundamental aspect of this country. You don't get to demand how we follow our religious beliefs.

Now to be fair, I think we shouldn't have government funding anything. I would prefer a free-market capitalist system.

But if the government is going to hand out money, you don't get to give the money to people, and then after you give them money, say ok no you are required to do everything we want.

No, sorry, that's not how this works. The government is of the people, by the people, and religious people are part of that group.

And if you don't like it.... stuff it. I don't care. Tough. You don't get to be dictator.

Ok.then it is ok to use government funding for abortion?

 

[martybegan]

Dude, ease up on the pot.

What are you talking about? Drinking too much and have nothing but ad hominems instead of any valid reasoning.

No one is forcing alleged Christians to marry persons of the same sex. The problem is when the Laity want Religious authority to tell other people what to do. Show us by example not appeal to authority Original Sinners can never have.

Dude, your posts are nothing but word salad.

 

[Andylusion]

What the Democrats have in store nationally.

Three Christian schools and a Christian network of pregnancy centers are suing Attorney General Mark Herring (D-Va.) in order to prevent Virginia from implementing two pro-LGBT laws that force “people of faith to adopt a particular government ideology under threat of punishment.” The two laws purport to prevent “discrimination” against LGBT people but, in reality, they force Christian ministries to choose between violating their sincerely held religious beliefs or paying hefty fines, as much as $100,000 per offense.

Virginia Forces Christian Ministries to Adopt 'Government Ideology' or Pay $100K

Are they getting taxpayer funding?

Every social security, medicare, food stamp, public housing, and Obama Phone user is getting tax payer funding.

Should we be able to dictate how every single person who gets money from the government, lives their lives?

Because if that's the standard, then I have a ton of rules I'd like to put in place.

If they get taxpayer funding they need to follow non discrimination laws. You don’t get to pick and choose what laws you want to follow, if you choose to take public funds.

The law is wrong. If you can take medicare, or any other funding, without following my demands about what you do with your life, then neither should any Christian organization.

On top of that, the right to free exercise of religion, is a fundamental aspect of this country. You don't get to demand how we follow our religious beliefs.

Now to be fair, I think we shouldn't have government funding anything. I would prefer a free-market capitalist system.

But if the government is going to hand out money, you don't get to give the money to people, and then after you give them money, say ok no you are required to do everything we want.

No, sorry, that's not how this works. The government is of the people, by the people, and religious people are part of that group.

And if you don't like it.... stuff it. I don't care. Tough. You don't get to be dictator.

Ok.then it is ok to use government funding for abortion?

Again, I'm against government spending money on anything. I prefer a free-market capitalist system.

But specifically as it relates to that..... is murder ok?

If you are telling me murder is fine, then yes it's fine to fund abortion.

If you believe murder is morally wrong... then no, you can't fund murder with my tax money.

 

[iceberg]

I don't remember Christ saying to treat people differently when it came to ministry.

I don't remember Christ telling people to use government force to make other people accept as legitimate certain "sinful" behaviors.

If you can cite an example, I will change my mind.

So you are saying homosexuality is a sin?

 

[Coyote]

What the Democrats have in store nationally.

Three Christian schools and a Christian network of pregnancy centers are suing Attorney General Mark Herring (D-Va.) in order to prevent Virginia from implementing two pro-LGBT laws that force “people of faith to adopt a particular government ideology under threat of punishment.” The two laws purport to prevent “discrimination” against LGBT people but, in reality, they force Christian ministries to choose between violating their sincerely held religious beliefs or paying hefty fines, as much as $100,000 per offense.

Virginia Forces Christian Ministries to Adopt 'Government Ideology' or Pay $100K

Are they getting taxpayer funding?

Every social security, medicare, food stamp, public housing, and Obama Phone user is getting tax payer funding.

Should we be able to dictate how every single person who gets money from the government, lives their lives?

Because if that's the standard, then I have a ton of rules I'd like to put in place.

If they get taxpayer funding they need to follow non discrimination laws. You don’t get to pick and choose what laws you want to follow, if you choose to take public funds.

The law is wrong. If you can take medicare, or any other funding, without following my demands about what you do with your life, then neither should any Christian organization.

On top of that, the right to free exercise of religion, is a fundamental aspect of this country. You don't get to demand how we follow our religious beliefs.

Now to be fair, I think we shouldn't have government funding anything. I would prefer a free-market capitalist system.

But if the government is going to hand out money, you don't get to give the money to people, and then after you give them money, say ok no you are required to do everything we want.

No, sorry, that's not how this works. The government is of the people, by the people, and religious people are part of that group.

And if you don't like it.... stuff it. I don't care. Tough. You don't get to be dictator.

Ok.then it is ok to use government funding for abortion?

Again, I'm against government spending money on anything. I prefer a free-market capitalist system.

But specifically as it relates to that..... is murder ok?

If you are telling me murder is fine, then yes it's fine to fund abortion.

If you believe murder is morally wrong... then no, you can't fund murder with my tax money.

Abortion is not considered murder...but ultimately, aren’t you arguing that an institution should be allowed to pick and choose what laws to follow if they accept taxpayer funding? I don’t agree. After all, I am paying them.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

What the Democrats have in store nationally.

Three Christian schools and a Christian network of pregnancy centers are suing Attorney General Mark Herring (D-Va.) in order to prevent Virginia from implementing two pro-LGBT laws that force “people of faith to adopt a particular government ideology under threat of punishment.” The two laws purport to prevent “discrimination” against LGBT people but, in reality, they force Christian ministries to choose between violating their sincerely held religious beliefs or paying hefty fines, as much as $100,000 per offense.

Virginia Forces Christian Ministries to Adopt 'Government Ideology' or Pay $100K

Are they getting taxpayer funding?

A glance at their website appears as they don't. Private school and over 11,000 a year just for preschool tution.

If they don't they can tell VA to go piss up a rope like our children's schools do

 

[Coyote]

What the Democrats have in store nationally.

Three Christian schools and a Christian network of pregnancy centers are suing Attorney General Mark Herring (D-Va.) in order to prevent Virginia from implementing two pro-LGBT laws that force “people of faith to adopt a particular government ideology under threat of punishment.” The two laws purport to prevent “discrimination” against LGBT people but, in reality, they force Christian ministries to choose between violating their sincerely held religious beliefs or paying hefty fines, as much as $100,000 per offense.

Virginia Forces Christian Ministries to Adopt 'Government Ideology' or Pay $100K

Are they getting taxpayer funding?

A glance at their website appears as they don't. Private school and over 11,000 a year just for preschool tution.

If they don't they can tell VA to go piss up a rope like our children's schools do

If they are a religious institution, that gets no public money...then ya, hands off.

 

[Andylusion]

What the Democrats have in store nationally.

Three Christian schools and a Christian network of pregnancy centers are suing Attorney General Mark Herring (D-Va.) in order to prevent Virginia from implementing two pro-LGBT laws that force “people of faith to adopt a particular government ideology under threat of punishment.” The two laws purport to prevent “discrimination” against LGBT people but, in reality, they force Christian ministries to choose between violating their sincerely held religious beliefs or paying hefty fines, as much as $100,000 per offense.

Virginia Forces Christian Ministries to Adopt 'Government Ideology' or Pay $100K

Are they getting taxpayer funding?

Every social security, medicare, food stamp, public housing, and Obama Phone user is getting tax payer funding.

Should we be able to dictate how every single person who gets money from the government, lives their lives?

Because if that's the standard, then I have a ton of rules I'd like to put in place.

If they get taxpayer funding they need to follow non discrimination laws. You don’t get to pick and choose what laws you want to follow, if you choose to take public funds.

The law is wrong. If you can take medicare, or any other funding, without following my demands about what you do with your life, then neither should any Christian organization.

On top of that, the right to free exercise of religion, is a fundamental aspect of this country. You don't get to demand how we follow our religious beliefs.

Now to be fair, I think we shouldn't have government funding anything. I would prefer a free-market capitalist system.

But if the government is going to hand out money, you don't get to give the money to people, and then after you give them money, say ok no you are required to do everything we want.

No, sorry, that's not how this works. The government is of the people, by the people, and religious people are part of that group.

And if you don't like it.... stuff it. I don't care. Tough. You don't get to be dictator.

Ok.then it is ok to use government funding for abortion?

Again, I'm against government spending money on anything. I prefer a free-market capitalist system.

But specifically as it relates to that..... is murder ok?

If you are telling me murder is fine, then yes it's fine to fund abortion.

If you believe murder is morally wrong... then no, you can't fund murder with my tax money.

Abortion is not considered murder...but ultimately, aren’t you arguing that an institution should be allowed to pick and choose what laws to follow if they accept taxpayer funding? I don’t agree. After all, I am paying them.

It *IS* factually murder. There is no logical way to deny that. Do DNA test. It is human. Are you saying it isn't alive? Because dead things don't grow, and consume oxygen or nutrients. Are you saying it isn't a person? Because last time people thought they had the right to determine what is or isn't a person, we had the 3/5th compromise.

The failed abortion survivor whose mum thought she was dead

Melissa Ohden was 14 when she learned her mother tried to abort her.

www.bbc.com

​

When Melissa Ohden was 14 she learned a shocking secret - her mother had tried to abort her. She was saved by a nurse who heard her crying as she lay among medical waste at a US hospital. This is the story of her survival, and of the mother who thought she was dead.​

People like you, tried to murder people like her.

So it is murder. End of story. There is no scientific way to conclude that putting another human being to death, without cause, for the sake of your career, or your convenience, is anything but murder.

You can deny that, but that just makes you wrong.

aren’t you arguing that an institution should be allowed to pick and choose what laws to follow if they accept taxpayer funding? I don’t agree. After all, I am paying them.

Again, religious freedom is a fundamental aspect of the founding of this nation. I don't care what you are pay for, or what you are not. You don't get to impose your views on religious organizations. You can vote to stop funding them if you want, but I don't care what money you give to a religious organization or not. You don't get to make any dictations on religion.

Period. It's a fundamental constitutional right. It's right guaranteed, whether you give money to them or not.

And if it isn't... Then I have some demands I'd like to make on every single person who takes money from government too. "After all, I am paying them".... right? I demand every single person in this country that takes a penny of government funding for any reason, must join the military for 2 years. I demand every single person who takes a penny of government funding, must join a church, and attend services a minimum of 26 times a year.

If you use health care, or mass transit, or food stamps, I demand every person who engages in any of that, be tested for drugs 4 times a year. I demand they work a minimum wage 26 weeks of 40 / hour per week at any job.

And for that matter, if you want to really play the "After all, I am paying them" game, how about mandatory sterilization of women who get abortions. Abortions cost money, and that's an expense on society and "After all, I am paying them", so let's sterilize these women so they won't get pregnant anymore, and won't cost society money for their irresponsibility.

Works for me... after all..... I am paying the taxes for that.... right? That's the standard for having the authority to dictate how others live... so that works both ways.

 

[Lysistrata]

I disagree with that. My business is my property. I can do with my property as I see fit. If I don't want to serve you because you wear yellow pants, you should not be able to force me to serve you.

Not if you want a business license. Everybody must follow the same rules, no exceptions, no matter what religion they are.

Further, I don't see any evidence that Franklin Graham wants to "force" anyone to do anything.

.

He wants to force us all to accept discrimination against our fellows. He pretends to speak for the Supreme Being. He takes his "my way or the highway" approach out to the general public and seeks to misuse the law to force the rest of us to go along with his views. He even tries to take his message of hate-mongering and scapegoating to other countries. He's nothing but a cheap politician.

Now if you want to play act like you are married with someone that's the same sex, by all means do whatever you want.

It's not playing acting. We live under civil law, not sectarian law, and people are married if they go through the proper legal procedures and secure the proper documentation. To pretend otherwise is play acting. Some have civil weddings and some choose to be married by clergy who have the authority to officiate in a legal marriage; their choice.

"I never claimed that anyone has to be just like me." you followed that up with a litany of screaming and bitching about people who are not like you.

What "screaming and bitching" about people who are not like me did I do? What did I say that would constitute "screaming and bitching"?

The bottom line is, you can do what you want.... but you don't get to force those views on others. Meaning, that if I have a Christian Wedding services company, like wedding cakes, hosting venues, or any other such service.... Christian weddings can't involve same-sex marriages, because same sex marriage doesn't exist in Christianity. We believe G-d created marriage between a man and woman. Period.

Not up for debate.

You cannot say "Christian" without stating what denomination/sect you are in. There is plenty of disagreement among Christians on the matter of same-sex marriages. Some Christian congregations solemnize same-sex marriages and some don't. Just saying "Christian" doesn't cut it. Yes, it IS a matter up for debate, obviously.

Whether left-wingers personally believe that or not, doesn't matter. We believe that and left-wingers claim to be tolerant, so they should shut their mouths, follow what they claim to be, and tolerate people of different views.

If they can't do that, then at least they should admit they are bigots themselves, and that they have no interest in tolerance, and then they at least wouldn't be hypocrites.

Your reference to "left-wingers" switches the topic from Christianity to politics. Christians hold a variety of political opinions; the whole spectrum, but your reference to "we" apparently applies only to those who follow your particular sect and support right-wing politics. You are ordering Christians and those of all faiths who support their fellows regardless of sexual orientation or faith to "shut their mouths," as if no one else has a right to speak except you folks. No thank you. Tolerance applies to you, too. You cannot use your version of the Christian faith as a weapon to attack the rights of people who are outside your congregation/denomination without opposition. I don't know what your version of "tolerance" of your "views" would be.

 

[Andylusion]

I disagree with that. My business is my property. I can do with my property as I see fit. If I don't want to serve you because you wear yellow pants, you should not be able to force me to serve you.

Not if you want a business license. Everybody must follow the same rules, no exceptions, no matter what religion they are.

Further, I don't see any evidence that Franklin Graham wants to "force" anyone to do anything.

.

He wants to force us all to accept discrimination against our fellows. He pretends to speak for the Supreme Being. He takes his "my way or the highway" approach out to the general public and seeks to misuse the law to force the rest of us to go along with his views. He even tries to take his message of hate-mongering and scapegoating to other countries. He's nothing but a cheap politician.

Now if you want to play act like you are married with someone that's the same sex, by all means do whatever you want.

It's not playing acting. We live under civil law, not sectarian law, and people are married if they go through the proper legal procedures and secure the proper documentation. To pretend otherwise is play acting. Some have civil weddings and some choose to be married by clergy who have the authority to officiate in a legal marriage; their choice.

"I never claimed that anyone has to be just like me." you followed that up with a litany of screaming and bitching about people who are not like you.

What "screaming and bitching" about people who are not like me did I do? What did I say that would constitute "screaming and bitching"?

The bottom line is, you can do what you want.... but you don't get to force those views on others. Meaning, that if I have a Christian Wedding services company, like wedding cakes, hosting venues, or any other such service.... Christian weddings can't involve same-sex marriages, because same sex marriage doesn't exist in Christianity. We believe G-d created marriage between a man and woman. Period.

Not up for debate.

You cannot say "Christian" without stating what denomination/sect you are in. There is plenty of disagreement among Christians on the matter of same-sex marriages. Some Christian congregations solemnize same-sex marriages and some don't. Just saying "Christian" doesn't cut it. Yes, it IS a matter up for debate, obviously.

Whether left-wingers personally believe that or not, doesn't matter. We believe that and left-wingers claim to be tolerant, so they should shut their mouths, follow what they claim to be, and tolerate people of different views.

If they can't do that, then at least they should admit they are bigots themselves, and that they have no interest in tolerance, and then they at least wouldn't be hypocrites.

Your reference to "left-wingers" switches the topic from Christianity to politics. Christians hold a variety of political opinions; the whole spectrum, but your reference to "we" apparently applies only to those who follow your particular sect and support right-wing politics. You are ordering Christians and those of all faiths who support their fellows regardless of sexual orientation or faith to "shut their mouths," as if no one else has a right to speak except you folks. No thank you. Tolerance applies to you, too. You cannot use your version of the Christian faith as a weapon to attack the rights of people who are outside your congregation/denomination without opposition. I don't know what your version of "tolerance" of your "views" would be.

Not if you want a business license. Everybody must follow the same rules, no exceptions, no matter what religion they are.

Don't need a business license. I've run my own business. Short time for sure, but I have done it. You know how to start a business? You contact people and say "I'm willing to do X, for Y pay".

And quite frankly business licenses are actually evil, and used by bad politicians with political supporters, to allow rich people to keep poor people poor.

Seriously, what do you really think business licenses do? They protect the rich that can afford the time and money to get them, and keep the poor from becoming wealthy. That's it. It's always ironic to hear left-wingers claim they hate politicians propping up the rich, and then spin around and support every possible measure of propping up the rich.

It's not playing acting. We live under civil law, not sectarian law

Whoa whoa whoa.... you are talking to a Christian. I'm a Christian first, before anything. Jesus Christ is the one and only Lord of my life. I follow human laws, only in so far, as they don't conflict with the laws of G-d.

When you say "We", that "We" doesn't include me.

I might wave the American flag, and stand for the national anthem, but that will only last until the flag and the nation, contradicts the laws of G-d. I'm a Christian first, even before I'm an America.

So I don't care what the laws says about myth of same-sex marriage. That doesn't matter to me. You can claim that until the end of my life, and far as I'm concerned, that isn't marriage. Never will be.

And I'll be more than happy to go to jail, for refusing to agree with same sex marriage. There is no "we". There are pagans, who believe whatever they want, and there are Christian who believe what G-d says.

If you want to tolerate different opinions, then practice what you preach. But if not, that doesn't change anything for me.

You cannot say "Christian" without stating what denomination/sect you are in. There is plenty of disagreement among Christians on the matter of same-sex marriages.

Not true. You can say Christian without stating what denomination, because I've been a Christian my whole life, and have never belonged to any denomination or sect.

Fun Fact: Denominations do not exist in Christian doctrine. If you want to read the Bible, and tell me where Baptists, or Methodists are listed, I'll gladly look up whatever reference you want.

Christianity is not based, or dependent on denominations. What is Christianity based on? The Bible. Without the Bible, there is no Christianity.

With that understanding, I don't care what any denomination says, or what disagreements there are. All I need to know, is what the Bible says.

Genesis 19:1–11 G-d rained down judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah, which were known for homosexuality.
Leviticus 18:22, 20:13 Condemns homosexuality.

1 Corinthians 6:9–10 and 1 Timothy 1:10 both list homosexuality with other evils like greed, thievery and so on.

Romans 1:26–27, talks about the penalty given for those who turn to homosexuality.

And I could list dozens of verses about what marriage is, which never describes it as between two women, or two men.

So it doesn't matter what disagreements people have. The Bible is clear. The Bible is the word of G-d. That's all there is to it.

Christians hold a variety of political opinions; the whole spectrum, but your reference to "we" apparently applies only to those who follow your particular sect and support right-wing politics.

Yes, I would agree with that.

Jim Gaffigan has a great joke (and he's not a Christian. He's a comedian.). The joke is he stands on stage saying "I'm a vegetarian. Any vegetarians here? Well I'm not a strict vegetarian.... I eat pork and beef, but not fish, because that's disgusting". You can look up his videos on youtube. Very funny.

But the point is.... are you vegetarian, because you said you are? If you eat beef and pork.... are you a vegetarian, because you said you were a vegetarian?

No. Not eating meat..... is a fundamental requirement of being a vegetarian.

Well.... similarly.... being a Christian isn't a pick your own meal buffet. You don't get to pick and choose what you believe. G-d did not send down a survey to find out from us, what we think he should do.

He's G-d. We're not.

So anyone who says "I'm a Christian, and the Bible is wrong about X".... no, the Bible isn't wrong, they are just not Christians.

Just like if you claim to be a vegetarian, and you are eating steak at Texas Roadhouse... no, Vegetarianism isn't wrong about eating steak... you are just not a Vegetarian.

So I agree with your statement above. Christians do not hold a variety of opinions. Those that deny what the Bible clearly says.... are simply not Christians. People do not define what Christianity is. G-d does. If you have a different opinion... that just means you are not Christian.

What did I say that would constitute "screaming and bitching"?

The "fucking busybody asshole" who want to force everyone to be just like them are people like frankie graham and, it seems, you.

You wrote that. Not me.

 

[Ben Thomson]

What the Democrats have in store nationally.

Three Christian schools and a Christian network of pregnancy centers are suing Attorney General Mark Herring (D-Va.) in order to prevent Virginia from implementing two pro-LGBT laws that force “people of faith to adopt a particular government ideology under threat of punishment.” The two laws purport to prevent “discrimination” against LGBT people but, in reality, they force Christian ministries to choose between violating their sincerely held religious beliefs or paying hefty fines, as much as $100,000 per offense.

Virginia Forces Christian Ministries to Adopt 'Government Ideology' or Pay $100K

Religious discrimination should be upheld at all costs..got it

 

[Lysistrata]

I disagree with that. My business is my property. I can do with my property as I see fit. If I don't want to serve you because you wear yellow pants, you should not be able to force me to serve you.

Not if you want a business license. Everybody must follow the same rules, no exceptions, no matter what religion they are.

Further, I don't see any evidence that Franklin Graham wants to "force" anyone to do anything.

.

He wants to force us all to accept discrimination against our fellows. He pretends to speak for the Supreme Being. He takes his "my way or the highway" approach out to the general public and seeks to misuse the law to force the rest of us to go along with his views. He even tries to take his message of hate-mongering and scapegoating to other countries. He's nothing but a cheap politician.

Now if you want to play act like you are married with someone that's the same sex, by all means do whatever you want.

It's not playing acting. We live under civil law, not sectarian law, and people are married if they go through the proper legal procedures and secure the proper documentation. To pretend otherwise is play acting. Some have civil weddings and some choose to be married by clergy who have the authority to officiate in a legal marriage; their choice.

"I never claimed that anyone has to be just like me." you followed that up with a litany of screaming and bitching about people who are not like you.

What "screaming and bitching" about people who are not like me did I do? What did I say that would constitute "screaming and bitching"?

The bottom line is, you can do what you want.... but you don't get to force those views on others. Meaning, that if I have a Christian Wedding services company, like wedding cakes, hosting venues, or any other such service.... Christian weddings can't involve same-sex marriages, because same sex marriage doesn't exist in Christianity. We believe G-d created marriage between a man and woman. Period.

Not up for debate.

You cannot say "Christian" without stating what denomination/sect you are in. There is plenty of disagreement among Christians on the matter of same-sex marriages. Some Christian congregations solemnize same-sex marriages and some don't. Just saying "Christian" doesn't cut it. Yes, it IS a matter up for debate, obviously.

Whether left-wingers personally believe that or not, doesn't matter. We believe that and left-wingers claim to be tolerant, so they should shut their mouths, follow what they claim to be, and tolerate people of different views.

If they can't do that, then at least they should admit they are bigots themselves, and that they have no interest in tolerance, and then they at least wouldn't be hypocrites.

Your reference to "left-wingers" switches the topic from Christianity to politics. Christians hold a variety of political opinions; the whole spectrum, but your reference to "we" apparently applies only to those who follow your particular sect and support right-wing politics. You are ordering Christians and those of all faiths who support their fellows regardless of sexual orientation or faith to "shut their mouths," as if no one else has a right to speak except you folks. No thank you. Tolerance applies to you, too. You cannot use your version of the Christian faith as a weapon to attack the rights of people who are outside your congregation/denomination without opposition. I don't know what your version of "tolerance" of your "views" would be.

Not if you want a business license. Everybody must follow the same rules, no exceptions, no matter what religion they are.

Don't need a business license. I've run my own business. Short time for sure, but I have done it. You know how to start a business? You contact people and say "I'm willing to do X, for Y pay".

And quite frankly business licenses are actually evil, and used by bad politicians with political supporters, to allow rich people to keep poor people poor.

Seriously, what do you really think business licenses do? They protect the rich that can afford the time and money to get them, and keep the poor from becoming wealthy. That's it. It's always ironic to hear left-wingers claim they hate politicians propping up the rich, and then spin around and support every possible measure of propping up the rich.

It's not playing acting. We live under civil law, not sectarian law

Whoa whoa whoa.... you are talking to a Christian. I'm a Christian first, before anything. Jesus Christ is the one and only Lord of my life. I follow human laws, only in so far, as they don't conflict with the laws of G-d.

When you say "We", that "We" doesn't include me.

I might wave the American flag, and stand for the national anthem, but that will only last until the flag and the nation, contradicts the laws of G-d. I'm a Christian first, even before I'm an America.

So I don't care what the laws says about myth of same-sex marriage. That doesn't matter to me. You can claim that until the end of my life, and far as I'm concerned, that isn't marriage. Never will be.

And I'll be more than happy to go to jail, for refusing to agree with same sex marriage. There is no "we". There are pagans, who believe whatever they want, and there are Christian who believe what G-d says.

If you want to tolerate different opinions, then practice what you preach. But if not, that doesn't change anything for me.

You cannot say "Christian" without stating what denomination/sect you are in. There is plenty of disagreement among Christians on the matter of same-sex marriages.

Not true. You can say Christian without stating what denomination, because I've been a Christian my whole life, and have never belonged to any denomination or sect.

Fun Fact: Denominations do not exist in Christian doctrine. If you want to read the Bible, and tell me where Baptists, or Methodists are listed, I'll gladly look up whatever reference you want.

Christianity is not based, or dependent on denominations. What is Christianity based on? The Bible. Without the Bible, there is no Christianity.

With that understanding, I don't care what any denomination says, or what disagreements there are. All I need to know, is what the Bible says.

Genesis 19:1–11 G-d rained down judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah, which were known for homosexuality.
Leviticus 18:22, 20:13 Condemns homosexuality.

1 Corinthians 6:9–10 and 1 Timothy 1:10 both list homosexuality with other evils like greed, thievery and so on.

Romans 1:26–27, talks about the penalty given for those who turn to homosexuality.

And I could list dozens of verses about what marriage is, which never describes it as between two women, or two men.

So it doesn't matter what disagreements people have. The Bible is clear. The Bible is the word of G-d. That's all there is to it.

Christians hold a variety of political opinions; the whole spectrum, but your reference to "we" apparently applies only to those who follow your particular sect and support right-wing politics.

Yes, I would agree with that.

Jim Gaffigan has a great joke (and he's not a Christian. He's a comedian.). The joke is he stands on stage saying "I'm a vegetarian. Any vegetarians here? Well I'm not a strict vegetarian.... I eat pork and beef, but not fish, because that's disgusting". You can look up his videos on youtube. Very funny.

But the point is.... are you vegetarian, because you said you are? If you eat beef and pork.... are you a vegetarian, because you said you were a vegetarian?

No. Not eating meat..... is a fundamental requirement of being a vegetarian.

Well.... similarly.... being a Christian isn't a pick your own meal buffet. You don't get to pick and choose what you believe. G-d did not send down a survey to find out from us, what we think he should do.

He's G-d. We're not.

So anyone who says "I'm a Christian, and the Bible is wrong about X".... no, the Bible isn't wrong, they are just not Christians.

Just like if you claim to be a vegetarian, and you are eating steak at Texas Roadhouse... no, Vegetarianism isn't wrong about eating steak... you are just not a Vegetarian.

So I agree with your statement above. Christians do not hold a variety of opinions. Those that deny what the Bible clearly says.... are simply not Christians. People do not define what Christianity is. G-d does. If you have a different opinion... that just means you are not Christian.

What did I say that would constitute "screaming and bitching"?

The "fucking busybody asshole" who want to force everyone to be just like them are people like frankie graham and, it seems, you.

You wrote that. Not me.

Christians have varying beliefs. You apparently believe that the bible was written by the Supreme Being and is inerrant and infallible. Not all Christians do, and even among the ones that do, disputes are constant about what this or that passage means. We don't know what criteria Constantine's committee used in choosing which writings to include and which to drop, anyway. Saul/Paul wrote the letters to the Romans and the Corinthians. The writers of Genesis and Leviticus are lost to history.

I don't see many people living according to Leviticus. The closest I can come are the ultra-orthodox Jews. Leviticus is full of animal sacrifices, declaring a woman who has given birth is somehow impure for a length of time, depending on the sex of her child, even though it is the father's contribution to the pregnancy that determines the sex of the child, leprosy, kosher rules, sex rules, and other tidbits like " 9:13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning," "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.," lots of folks who "shall be put to death," rules for slavery, and much more, with caution after caution that one must follow every rule "for I am the LORD your God," so no cherry-picking.