Veterans are being told to pay back bonuses..........

[ogibillm]

Obama could snap off an executive order. He would if the vets were Muslim or illegal aliens.

why do you support fraud and abuse?

Why do you ask stupid questions?

It's stupid to wonder why you support people keeping unearned payments from the federal government?

It's kinda obvious that you've never been in the military. People who are outside of the personnel office generally don't know what is what when it comes to their paperwork. They depend on the Personnelman to tell them what they are and aren't eligible for.

And..........the Personnelmen don't determine who gets a bonus or not, that is written in an instruction that comes out every fiscal year after Congress passes the military authorization budget. If it's in the instruction, then they are eligible, if not, then they aren't.

I don't care. It has been ten years. If Obama can send 770 million to rebuild mosques in the ME, he can forgive this debt.

lots of veterans have had to pay nack overpayments. where do you draw the line?

 

[Lastamender]

why do you support fraud and abuse?

Why do you ask stupid questions?

It's stupid to wonder why you support people keeping unearned payments from the federal government?

It's kinda obvious that you've never been in the military. People who are outside of the personnel office generally don't know what is what when it comes to their paperwork. They depend on the Personnelman to tell them what they are and aren't eligible for.

And..........the Personnelmen don't determine who gets a bonus or not, that is written in an instruction that comes out every fiscal year after Congress passes the military authorization budget. If it's in the instruction, then they are eligible, if not, then they aren't.

I don't care. It has been ten years. If Obama can send 770 million to rebuild mosques in the ME, he can forgive this debt.

lots of veterans have had to pay nack overpayments. where do you draw the line?

Same place Obama does. Which means that because someone did something means 0.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I'm sorry that's just not how it works.

they didn't earn the money. they wrongly took resources that could have been used elsewhere. sorry they were ignorant about the contract they signed, but ignorance doesn't mean you get to keep stolen money

An enlistment is a contract with clearly defined terms.

The soldier agrees to serve 3-4 years for a given rate and any enlistment bonuses are clearly identified.

The recruiter or some other official signs on behalf of the Army. The soldier signs on his own behalf. Then you have a contract

If the Army is not satisfied with the terms agreed to by its agent, their grievance is with the agent not the soldier

the army is satisfied. the re-enlisting soldiers that did not meet the eligibility requirements for the bonuses are not

The Army has the ability to review each enlistment contract before it is approved and before a bonus check is paid. They elected not to do that

However, after the soldier has served the enlistment, is no time to review the eligibility of a soldier
A contract is "this for that" The soldier fulfilled the that
There is no way for the Army to "make well" a soldier who has given up three years of their lives

Agreed.


Sadly, the worst of it is, when the DoD determines you've been overpaid....they want it back...ALL AT ONCE...regardless of the hardship.

Not true. Many years ago I was going to College on the GI Bill and for some unknown reason they kept sending me checks all summer even though I was not attending the summer session. I deposited the checks in my savings account and drew interest until they caught their mistake. One day a government lawyer showed up at my house and presented me with the bill. I wrote him a check and he was absolutely amazed. He then sat for awhile and explained that I was the first one to pay him in the three years that he had been collecting for GI bill over payment. Most of the others that he talked to were put on a payment schedule of 5 or 10 dollars a month and that they usually made one or two payments and than quit making payments. It doesn't speak well for some of my fellow veterans, but Government did not insist on getting it all at once.

The difference is, you knew there was a mistake. In the case of these veterans it was simple. The veterans had separated. The government said "if you reenlist, we will pay you a bonus." The offer induced the reenlistment. There was no reason for the person to suspect an error.

Compounding that, the government tacked on interest back to the date the veteran got the money. That's over ten years of compounding interest.

This is wrong no matter how you cut it.

 

[ogibillm]

An enlistment is a contract with clearly defined terms.

The soldier agrees to serve 3-4 years for a given rate and any enlistment bonuses are clearly identified.

The recruiter or some other official signs on behalf of the Army. The soldier signs on his own behalf. Then you have a contract

If the Army is not satisfied with the terms agreed to by its agent, their grievance is with the agent not the soldier

the army is satisfied. the re-enlisting soldiers that did not meet the eligibility requirements for the bonuses are not

The Army has the ability to review each enlistment contract before it is approved and before a bonus check is paid. They elected not to do that

However, after the soldier has served the enlistment, is no time to review the eligibility of a soldier
A contract is "this for that" The soldier fulfilled the that
There is no way for the Army to "make well" a soldier who has given up three years of their lives

Agreed.


Sadly, the worst of it is, when the DoD determines you've been overpaid....they want it back...ALL AT ONCE...regardless of the hardship.

Not true. Many years ago I was going to College on the GI Bill and for some unknown reason they kept sending me checks all summer even though I was not attending the summer session. I deposited the checks in my savings account and drew interest until they caught their mistake. One day a government lawyer showed up at my house and presented me with the bill. I wrote him a check and he was absolutely amazed. He then sat for awhile and explained that I was the first one to pay him in the three years that he had been collecting for GI bill over payment. Most of the others that he talked to were put on a payment schedule of 5 or 10 dollars a month and that they usually made one or two payments and than quit making payments. It doesn't speak well for some of my fellow veterans, but Government did not insist on getting it all at once.

The difference is, you knew there was a mistake. In the case of these veterans it was simple. The veterans had separated. The government said "if you reenlist, we will pay you a bonus." The offer induced the reenlistment. There was no reason for the person to suspect an error.

Compounding that, the government tacked on interest back to the date the veteran got the money. That's over ten years of compounding interest.

This is wrong no matter how you cut it.

had already separated? i don't believe so.

but i do agree with you on the interest.

 

[ABikerSailor]

why do you support fraud and abuse?

Why do you ask stupid questions?

It's stupid to wonder why you support people keeping unearned payments from the federal government?

It's kinda obvious that you've never been in the military. People who are outside of the personnel office generally don't know what is what when it comes to their paperwork. They depend on the Personnelman to tell them what they are and aren't eligible for.

And..........the Personnelmen don't determine who gets a bonus or not, that is written in an instruction that comes out every fiscal year after Congress passes the military authorization budget. If it's in the instruction, then they are eligible, if not, then they aren't.

I don't care. It has been ten years. If Obama can send 770 million to rebuild mosques in the ME, he can forgive this debt.

lots of veterans have had to pay nack overpayments. where do you draw the line?

You're right...............there ARE lots of veterans who have had to pay back overpayments that were made in error.

However.............did you also know that you can contest it, and if you can show that it was through no fault of your own, but rather the military, you can have it waived?

Over 20 years in the Navy, I didn't see many (maybe only two or so), but I did see some.

But.................you're right.............generally the government wins.

However, in this case, because they wrote the regulations in a way that made a lot of people believe they were eligible (as well as processing the bonus payments through DFAS), and didn't catch the problem until over 10 years later?

Let them keep the money. Besides...............nobody ever got rich serving in the military.

 

[tigerred59]

Now veterans are being told that even though they risked their asses by going into war zones in the ME, they are not eligible for the bonuses they were given and are being told they have to repay them. Many were given enlistment bonuses of 15,000 or more.

Pentagon Demands Return Of Cash Bonuses Paid To California Soldiers For Going To War A Decade Ago

Now, considering that most of our military live paycheck to paycheck because they don't get paid enough (an E-6 over 20 years of service only makes 36,000/yr), most of them will have a financial hardship in paying back the money.

I say let them keep the money, and let it go at that. They served in a war zone and risked their asses. They deserve the money for reenlisting and going back into a war zone.

Does anyone else find this reprehensible?

You gotta love the DOD.....the biggest welfare program in our country, who once spent $450 on hammers and toilet seats, who to this day has no clue where 1 billion dollars in a wheel barrel disappeared during the early days of the Iraqi war, who has more gov. waste than any agency in the country, with defense contractors leading the way, who pay states to build shit, nobody wants or need, just to please congress and we to them sweating soldiers who's only crime is signing re enlistment contracts for a bonus and for filling thier obligations. Give me a fuckin break!!

 

[tigerred59]

Why do you ask stupid questions?

It's stupid to wonder why you support people keeping unearned payments from the federal government?

It's kinda obvious that you've never been in the military. People who are outside of the personnel office generally don't know what is what when it comes to their paperwork. They depend on the Personnelman to tell them what they are and aren't eligible for.

And..........the Personnelmen don't determine who gets a bonus or not, that is written in an instruction that comes out every fiscal year after Congress passes the military authorization budget. If it's in the instruction, then they are eligible, if not, then they aren't.

I don't care. It has been ten years. If Obama can send 770 million to rebuild mosques in the ME, he can forgive this debt.

lots of veterans have had to pay nack overpayments. where do you draw the line?

You're right...............there ARE lots of veterans who have had to pay back overpayments that were made in error.

However.............did you also know that you can contest it, and if you can show that it was through no fault of your own, but rather the military, you can have it waived?

Over 20 years in the Navy, I didn't see many (maybe only two or so), but I did see some.

But.................you're right.............generally the government wins.

However, in this case, because they wrote the regulations in a way that made a lot of people believe they were eligible (as well as processing the bonus payments through DFAS), and didn't catch the problem until over 10 years later?

Let them keep the money. Besides...............nobody ever got rich serving in the military.

Fellow Navy vet here....I remember back in the day, the only time bonuses were handed out were in short staffed ranks that needed more people in it. Like nuclear sub enlistments...but just giving out bonuses just to re enlist???

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Is there no curiosity as to why only California veterans are being punished?

The reenlistment bonus only applied to certain classifications. Only in California were all veterans promised a reenlistment bonus. The other states never made that promise.

 

[tigerred59]

An enlistment is a contract with clearly defined terms.

The soldier agrees to serve 3-4 years for a given rate and any enlistment bonuses are clearly identified.

The recruiter or some other official signs on behalf of the Army. The soldier signs on his own behalf. Then you have a contract

If the Army is not satisfied with the terms agreed to by its agent, their grievance is with the agent not the soldier

the army is satisfied. the re-enlisting soldiers that did not meet the eligibility requirements for the bonuses are not

The Army has the ability to review each enlistment contract before it is approved and before a bonus check is paid. They elected not to do that

However, after the soldier has served the enlistment, is no time to review the eligibility of a soldier
A contract is "this for that" The soldier fulfilled the that
There is no way for the Army to "make well" a soldier who has given up three years of their lives

Agreed.


Sadly, the worst of it is, when the DoD determines you've been overpaid....they want it back...ALL AT ONCE...regardless of the hardship.

Not true. Many years ago I was going to College on the GI Bill and for some unknown reason they kept sending me checks all summer even though I was not attending the summer session. I deposited the checks in my savings account and drew interest until they caught their mistake. One day a government lawyer showed up at my house and presented me with the bill. I wrote him a check and he was absolutely amazed. He then sat for awhile and explained that I was the first one to pay him in the three years that he had been collecting for GI bill over payment. Most of the others that he talked to were put on a payment schedule of 5 or 10 dollars a month and that they usually made one or two payments and than quit making payments. It doesn't speak well for some of my fellow veterans, but Government did not insist on getting it all at once.

The difference is, you knew there was a mistake. In the case of these veterans it was simple. The veterans had separated. The government said "if you reenlist, we will pay you a bonus." The offer induced the reenlistment. There was no reason for the person to suspect an error.

Compounding that, the government tacked on interest back to the date the veteran got the money. That's over ten years of compounding interest.

This is wrong no matter how you cut it.

Never thought I'd ever see the day, I'd agree with you Topsy, but I agree. What's interesting in all this, the congress can fix this shit like yesterday and they're gone on vacation....so much for the vets...until election speeches are given, eh?

 

[Southern Dad]

President Barack H Obama has a phone and a pen. He can solve this with one of his Executive Orders that he loves so much.

 

[ogibillm]

again, obama has nothing to do with this

Obama could snap off an executive order. He would if the vets were Muslim or illegal aliens.

why do you support fraud and abuse?

Why do you ask stupid questions?

It's stupid to wonder why you support people keeping unearned payments from the federal government?

It's kinda obvious that you've never been in the military. People who are outside of the personnel office generally don't know what is what when it comes to their paperwork. They depend on the Personnelman to tell them what they are and aren't eligible for.

And..........the Personnelmen don't determine who gets a bonus or not, that is written in an instruction that comes out every fiscal year after Congress passes the military authorization budget. If it's in the instruction, then they are eligible, if not, then they aren't.

nope, I've never been in.

but here's what i do know -

because the california guard tooknresources it wasn't entitled to soldiers across the country suffered. no money for schools, loss of full-time positions, cutbacks on training budgets.

and i know the soldiers weren't entitled to those bonuses.

 

[TooTall]

the army is satisfied. the re-enlisting soldiers that did not meet the eligibility requirements for the bonuses are not

The Army has the ability to review each enlistment contract before it is approved and before a bonus check is paid. They elected not to do that

However, after the soldier has served the enlistment, is no time to review the eligibility of a soldier
A contract is "this for that" The soldier fulfilled the that
There is no way for the Army to "make well" a soldier who has given up three years of their lives

Agreed.


Sadly, the worst of it is, when the DoD determines you've been overpaid....they want it back...ALL AT ONCE...regardless of the hardship.

Not true. Many years ago I was going to College on the GI Bill and for some unknown reason they kept sending me checks all summer even though I was not attending the summer session. I deposited the checks in my savings account and drew interest until they caught their mistake. One day a government lawyer showed up at my house and presented me with the bill. I wrote him a check and he was absolutely amazed. He then sat for awhile and explained that I was the first one to pay him in the three years that he had been collecting for GI bill over payment. Most of the others that he talked to were put on a payment schedule of 5 or 10 dollars a month and that they usually made one or two payments and than quit making payments. It doesn't speak well for some of my fellow veterans, but Government did not insist on getting it all at once.

The difference is, you knew there was a mistake. In the case of these veterans it was simple. The veterans had separated. The government said "if you reenlist, we will pay you a bonus." The offer induced the reenlistment. There was no reason for the person to suspect an error.

Compounding that, the government tacked on interest back to the date the veteran got the money. That's over ten years of compounding interest.

This is wrong no matter how you cut it.

Never thought I'd ever see the day, I'd agree with you Topsy, but I agree. What's interesting in all this, the congress can fix this shit like yesterday and they're gone on vacation....so much for the vets...until election speeches are given, eh?

The Sec of Defense could fix this if the President would take time off from campaigning for Hillary long enough to give him the order to do so. It is the DOD that is collecting the money and they report to the Sec of Defense. Now, call me a racist since I blame the President for not doing his job.

 

[ogibillm]

The Army has the ability to review each enlistment contract before it is approved and before a bonus check is paid. They elected not to do that

However, after the soldier has served the enlistment, is no time to review the eligibility of a soldier
A contract is "this for that" The soldier fulfilled the that
There is no way for the Army to "make well" a soldier who has given up three years of their lives

Agreed.


Sadly, the worst of it is, when the DoD determines you've been overpaid....they want it back...ALL AT ONCE...regardless of the hardship.

Not true. Many years ago I was going to College on the GI Bill and for some unknown reason they kept sending me checks all summer even though I was not attending the summer session. I deposited the checks in my savings account and drew interest until they caught their mistake. One day a government lawyer showed up at my house and presented me with the bill. I wrote him a check and he was absolutely amazed. He then sat for awhile and explained that I was the first one to pay him in the three years that he had been collecting for GI bill over payment. Most of the others that he talked to were put on a payment schedule of 5 or 10 dollars a month and that they usually made one or two payments and than quit making payments. It doesn't speak well for some of my fellow veterans, but Government did not insist on getting it all at once.

The difference is, you knew there was a mistake. In the case of these veterans it was simple. The veterans had separated. The government said "if you reenlist, we will pay you a bonus." The offer induced the reenlistment. There was no reason for the person to suspect an error.

Compounding that, the government tacked on interest back to the date the veteran got the money. That's over ten years of compounding interest.

This is wrong no matter how you cut it.

Never thought I'd ever see the day, I'd agree with you Topsy, but I agree. What's interesting in all this, the congress can fix this shit like yesterday and they're gone on vacation....so much for the vets...until election speeches are given, eh?

The Sec of Defense could fix this if the President would take time off from campaigning for Hillary long enough to give him the order to do so. It is the DOD that is collecting the money and they report to the Sec of Defense. Now, call me a racist since I blame the President for not doing his job.

It's not the presidents job to forgive overpayment debts

 

[longknife]

Ignoring all the above crap ---

Obama Tells Pentagon to Speed Up Review of California Guard Bonuses

Nothing more than a political move? Read the following:

But he said the president was not yet backing bipartisan calls in Congress to fully forgive the overpayments of an estimated $70 million total that recruiters awarded to meet their enlistment quotas.

"I don't think he's prepared to go that far at this point," Earnest said, adding that "it might not be necessary to ensure fairness."

More @ Obama Tells Pentagon to Speed Up Review of California Guard Bonuses | Military.com

 

[Southern Dad]

It's not the presidents job to forgive overpayment debts

Actually, the president is the top of the military chain of command. This is something that very much is in his wheelhouse. He should have come out within a day of it coming to light suspending the collection of the money.

 

[ogibillm]

It's not the presidents job to forgive overpayment debts

Actually, the president is the top of the military chain of command. This is something that very much is in his wheelhouse. He should have come out within a day of it coming to light suspending the collection of the money.

why do you support fraud and abuse?

 

[charwin95]

Hold on folks. This is the latest.

Ash Carter suspends bonus clawbacks California National Guard members - CNNPolitics.com

(CNN)Secretary of Defense Ash Carter said Wednesday he is suspending "all efforts to collect reimbursement" from improperly awarded enlistment bonuses given to some members of the California National Guard, following outrage from veterans and their families over attempts to recover the money 10 years after it was disbursed.

"I have ordered the Defense Finance and Accounting Service to suspend all efforts to collect reimbursement from affected California National Guard members, effective as soon as is practical," Carter said in a statement, adding this suspension will continue until "I am satisfied that our process is working effectively."
Army's letter to veteran: Pay us back $21,000

"There is no more important responsibility for the Department of Defense than keeping faith with our people," Carter added in his statement, adding, "While some soldiers knew or should have known they were ineligible for benefits they were claiming, many others did not."
After investigators uncovered rampant fraud and mismanagement by California Guard officials trying to meet enlistment targets, the California National Guard has said it was required to try to recuperate the erroneously awarded funds, and does not have the authority to unilaterally waive the debts.

 

[TooTall]

Agreed.


Sadly, the worst of it is, when the DoD determines you've been overpaid....they want it back...ALL AT ONCE...regardless of the hardship.

Not true. Many years ago I was going to College on the GI Bill and for some unknown reason they kept sending me checks all summer even though I was not attending the summer session. I deposited the checks in my savings account and drew interest until they caught their mistake. One day a government lawyer showed up at my house and presented me with the bill. I wrote him a check and he was absolutely amazed. He then sat for awhile and explained that I was the first one to pay him in the three years that he had been collecting for GI bill over payment. Most of the others that he talked to were put on a payment schedule of 5 or 10 dollars a month and that they usually made one or two payments and than quit making payments. It doesn't speak well for some of my fellow veterans, but Government did not insist on getting it all at once.

The difference is, you knew there was a mistake. In the case of these veterans it was simple. The veterans had separated. The government said "if you reenlist, we will pay you a bonus." The offer induced the reenlistment. There was no reason for the person to suspect an error.

Compounding that, the government tacked on interest back to the date the veteran got the money. That's over ten years of compounding interest.

This is wrong no matter how you cut it.

Never thought I'd ever see the day, I'd agree with you Topsy, but I agree. What's interesting in all this, the congress can fix this shit like yesterday and they're gone on vacation....so much for the vets...until election speeches are given, eh?

The Sec of Defense could fix this if the President would take time off from campaigning for Hillary long enough to give him the order to do so. It is the DOD that is collecting the money and they report to the Sec of Defense. Now, call me a racist since I blame the President for not doing his job.

It's not the presidents job to forgive overpayment debts

It is the President's job as Commander in Chief of the armed forces to see that they are not fucked over by his Department of Defense.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Take the money out of the next ransom payment the dimwits are sending to iran.

 

[ABikerSailor]

It's stupid to wonder why you support people keeping unearned payments from the federal government?

It's kinda obvious that you've never been in the military. People who are outside of the personnel office generally don't know what is what when it comes to their paperwork. They depend on the Personnelman to tell them what they are and aren't eligible for.

And..........the Personnelmen don't determine who gets a bonus or not, that is written in an instruction that comes out every fiscal year after Congress passes the military authorization budget. If it's in the instruction, then they are eligible, if not, then they aren't.

I don't care. It has been ten years. If Obama can send 770 million to rebuild mosques in the ME, he can forgive this debt.

lots of veterans have had to pay nack overpayments. where do you draw the line?

You're right...............there ARE lots of veterans who have had to pay back overpayments that were made in error.

However.............did you also know that you can contest it, and if you can show that it was through no fault of your own, but rather the military, you can have it waived?

Over 20 years in the Navy, I didn't see many (maybe only two or so), but I did see some.

But.................you're right.............generally the government wins.

However, in this case, because they wrote the regulations in a way that made a lot of people believe they were eligible (as well as processing the bonus payments through DFAS), and didn't catch the problem until over 10 years later?

Let them keep the money. Besides...............nobody ever got rich serving in the military.

Fellow Navy vet here....I remember back in the day, the only time bonuses were handed out were in short staffed ranks that needed more people in it. Like nuclear sub enlistments...but just giving out bonuses just to re enlist???

They had the program in place from 2006 until 2008, because there were a lot of people who were getting out because they didn't want to deploy to the ME any more. Because of the high attrition rate, the Army decided to give bonuses (starting at 15,000 for the average Army type), with additional money being paid for certain specialties. In one case on the news, an intelligence type soldier was paid 25,000, and a pilot was paid 45,000, so yeah, the amount you get is determined by your specialty.

But because they needed bodies as well as specialties, that is why the 15,000 was paid to everyone.

Yeah..............I remember being a PN (Personnelman) which was CREO group E (over 130 percent manned), and was typing up checks for ET's and other electronics technician types of up to 20,000 for their bonuses.

Talk about getting depressed. PN's NEVER got a bonus!