Veganism and health.

[Captain Caveman]

Yup. My reason for going vegan had nothing to do with health. BUT it just so happened to make me much healthier, as I've mentioned many times on other threads.

What do I want to put in my body....decaying corpses of animals who were abused, tortured and begged for mercy til their last moment? Or REAL food that we were designed to eat from the start?

Since our bodies are temples, I think the answer to that question is clear:

Do you take communion?

 

[buttercup]

View attachment 1107280

I know that an egg alternative made from mung bean sounds weird...but believe it or not, it actually tastes virtually identical to scrambled eggs.

In any event, I'd much rather eat that than chicken ovulations which is paying for baby male chicks to be literally ground up alive, or suffocated in a large hefty bag.

This is what you pay for when you buy eggs:

 

[buttercup]

Do you take communion?

Yes, when my church does it. It's not weekly at the church I go to. Why?

 

[Captain Caveman]

Yes, when my church does it. It's not weekly at the church I go to. Why?

Just wondered what vegan's thoughts were on the bread representing Christ's body and wine for His blood. If that thought doesn't matter, that that's fine, I just wondered.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

About that protein

 

[debbiedowner]

Veganism eschews the natural fertilization of crops using animal manures in favor of chemical fertilizers. These chemicals already have a profound environmental impact, which would be manifold times worse if veganism expands beyond its current numbers.

The Hidden Dangers of Chemical Fertilizers -- Environmental Protection

Because the damage caused by chemical fertilizers is often long-term and cumulative, it may be wiser to consider alternative and sustainable methods of fertilizing the soil.

eponline.com

Food Safety, Animal manures harbor pathogens harmful to humans, including E. coli, Salmonella, and Campylobacter bacteria, and Giardia or Cryptosporidium protozoa. These organisms can affect people when they consume crops contaminated with soil, and under certain conditions, they can be taken up into plant tissue

 

[Woodznutz]

Food Safety, Animal manures harbor pathogens harmful to humans, including E. coli, Salmonella, and Campylobacter bacteria, and Giardia or Cryptosporidium protozoa. These organisms can affect people when they consume crops contaminated with soil, and under certain conditions, they can be taken up into plant tissue

True, if not managed properly.

 

[Woodznutz]

About that protein

Here's a protein absorption rate chart to go along with the video.

Protein Absorption Rate Chart

Protein absorption is a hot topic among athletes and fitness enthusiasts. To reach fitness goals, it’s important to understand how to best fuel your body. Many people wonder how much protein they should consume as well as the best sources of protein to maximize their body’s absorption of...

nakednutrition.com

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I know that an egg alternative made from mung bean sounds weird...but believe it or not, it actually tastes virtually identical to scrambled eggs.

 

[braalian]

As a cancer survivor, I'm betting my LIFE on this (a whole foods plant based diet). But I'm not making that choice for health reasons but because it is aligned with the will of the Father

Doesn’t the Bible have extensive examples of Christians eating meat?

Didn’t god get pissed at Cain because he didn’t sacrifice sheep or something?

Didn’t the Bible explicitly state that man has dominion over animals?

 

[Woodznutz]

Doesn’t the Bible have extensive examples of Christians eating meat?

Didn’t god get pissed at Cain because he didn’t sacrifice sheep or something?

Didn’t the Bible explicitly state that man has dominion over animals?

Jesus suggested that a loving parent will give his family eggs and fish to eat.

 

[Woodznutz]

Buttercup,
Don't make me come over there. Read yer Bible.

 

[buttercup]

Didn’t the Bible explicitly state that man has dominion over animals?

The word "dominion" means to rule. We were given dominion as image bearers of God. (Genesis 1:27-28)
So our dominion, or rule, is supposed to look just like GOD'S dominion...which means with selfless LOVE, mercy, kindness, and a genuine care for their flourishing and well-being, just like God's dominion over us. NOT with selfishness, exploitation, cruelty, like a tyrannical dictator. If anything, THAT type of "dominion" reflects the lower-case "god of this world" aka satan....not God.

Also, an important thing to know is that the verse IMMEDIATELY after the verse about dominion clearly states that we were given a plantbased diet.

Take a look. I'll bold the pertinent parts for you:

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”​

​

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.​

So, as you can see, "dominion" did NOT mean "license to do whatever the hell you want and eat animals" because in the very next verse He makes it crystal clear that our diet is 100% plantbased.

God's perfect will was, IS, and always will be peace and harmony among all creation. And it WILL be that way again one day, when Jesus returns. (Read my current sig to see that.)

As for your other questions... since you directed your post to Carl, I'll let him take those.

 

[buttercup]

 

[Woodznutz]

The word "dominion" means to rule. We were given dominion as image bearers of God. (Genesis 1:27-28)
So our dominion, or rule, is supposed to look just like GOD'S dominion...which means with selfless LOVE, mercy, kindness, and a genuine care for their flourishing and well-being, just like God's dominion over us. NOT with selfishness, exploitation, cruelty, like a tyrannical dictator. If anything, THAT type of "dominion" reflects the lower-case "god of this world" aka satan....not God.

Also, an important thing to know is that the verse IMMEDIATELY after the verse about dominion clearly states that we were given a plantbased diet.

Take a look. I'll bold the pertinent parts for you:

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”​

​

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.​

So, as you can see, "dominion" did NOT mean "license to do whatever the hell you want and eat animals" because in the very next verse He makes it crystal clear that our diet is 100% plantbased.

God's will was, IS, and always will be peace and harmony among all creation. And it WILL be that way again one day, when Jesus returns. (Read my current sig to see that.)

As for your other questions... since you directed your post to Carl, I'll let him take those.

Later God gave us animals to eat, which was confirmed in the NT.
That perfect plant-based world went to pot in chapter 3 with the fall. Eden was lost, and what Adam and Eve faced was an earth that they indeed had to subdue in order to survive. No more easy life in the garden. That said God provided grasslands for grazing animals, which would provide everything needed to prosper. It is unthinkable that meat wasn't eaten prior the flood. It is likely that God codified which animals could be eaten, which set the stage for the health and wealth that he intended for man to achieve.

 

[buttercup]

Later God gave us animals to eat, which was confirmed in the NT.

That perfect plant-based world went to pot in chapter 3 with the fall. Eden was lost, and what Adam and Eve faced was an earth that they indeed had to subdue in order to survive. No more easy life in the garden. That said God provided grasslands for grazing animals, which would provide everything needed to prosper. It is unthinkable that meat wasn't eaten prior the flood. It is likely that God codified which animals could be eaten, which set the stage for the health and wealth that he intended for man to achieve.

We've been through this a thousand times, Woodnutz. Why do you like to keep going over the same debates, over and over again?

Yes, this is a fallen world. But NO, that does not mean that God WANTS us to live according to the fallen aspects of this world. It's the exact opposite.

Let's look at what Jesus taught us. I'm going to bold the pertinent part:

"Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven."​

As Christians we are supposed to have an eternal perspective, not a temporal worldly perspective.

That means looking at the big picture.

Think of it this way. Envision a timeline in your mind. In the beginning, when God created the world, it was created in the way HE intended for it to be: peace and harmony among all creation. That's the beginning of the timeline.

The prophetic scriptures about the world to come clearly show that God is going to restore that initial paradise, and once again there will be peace and harmony among all creation.... because that is what GOD WANTS. And that will be for eternity.

In between the start of the timeline and the end of the timeline is this fallen word, this age where satan temporarily is the "god of this world." But in comparison to eternity, this fallen world is just a blip, it is temporary and it is NOT the way God wants things to be.

So when you think of that timeline and the big picture...why would you choose this temporary fallen world over God's perfect will for all creation?

Especially in light of Jesus' teaching about God's will to be done on earth as it is in Heaven. (eternity)

Not only are we exhorted to have an eternal perspective, but we are warned against having the opposite mindset. In Philippians 3, Paul warns against being like those within the church who walk as “enemies of the cross of Christ.” With great sadness, he describes their characteristics and their fate: self-indulgent, with minds set on earthly things, whose end is destruction.

"For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things." Philippians 3:19​

Romans 12:2 also CLEARLY states that we are not to choose this world over God's perfect will:

Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.”​

We are also taught to be prepared for the world to come. Remember the parable of the wise virgins and the foolish virgins? We are not supposed to wait to the last minute to prepare for eternity... but to live as Kingdom people NOW, in this fallen world! That is how we are set apart from others. If not, then how are we different than anyone else?

There's more to say about this, but this is getting too long, so I'll leave it at that for now.

But as Carl said the other day.... your pattern has been to continually ignore everything that is brought up, and to just keep throwing the same stuff against the wall, hoping it will stick. So if all you're going to do is ignore this and continue with your same stuff, then I really don't have the time today to do that. We've been through this so many times on numerous threads.

 

[Soupnazi630]

That is so laughably false, that I almost feel it's not worthy of a response.

But here's something important to know. Within veganism there is a range of different diets that are not all the same. Technically, someone could eat a "diet" of nothing but Oreos, and that could be considered a "vegan diet" simply because there are no animal products.

But a whole food plant-based diet? It's one of the healthiest if not THE healthiest diet of all.....that has been known to not only prevent disease, but actually reverse disease.

On this YouTube channel you will find TONS of testimonies of people who beat cancer or other diseases by radically changing their diet, to a whole food plant-based diet.

chrisbeatcancer

Nutrition and natural therapies for prevention and healing. Hi there! My name is Chris Wark. I was diagnosed with Stage 3 Colon Cancer in 2003, at 26 years old. I had surgery but refused chemo. Instead, I used nutrition and natural therapies to heal myself. By the grace of God, I'm alive and...

www.youtube.com

Plus there are tons of studies going back many decades that say the same thing.

Carl in Michigan

FredVegbarfuss

Blues Man

That is all anecdotal which means not a study or evidence at all

 

[Woodznutz]

We've been through this a thousand times, Woodnutz. Why do you like to keep going over the same debates, over and over again?

Yes, this is a fallen world. But NO, that does not mean that God WANTS us to live according to the fallen aspects of this world. It's the exact opposite.

Let's look at what Jesus taught us. I'm going to bold the pertinent part:

"Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven."​

As Christians we are supposed to have an eternal perspective, not a temporal worldly perspective.

That means looking at the big picture.

Think of it this way. Envision a timeline in your mind. In the beginning, when God created the world, it was created in the way HE intended for it to be: peace and harmony among all creation. That's the beginning of the timeline.

The prophetic scriptures about the world to come clearly show that God is going to restore that initial paradise, and once again there will be peace and harmony among all creation.... because that is what GOD WANTS. And that will be for eternity.

In between the start of the timeline and the end of the timeline is this fallen word, this age where satan temporarily is the "god of this world." But in comparison to eternity, this fallen world is just a blip, it is temporary and it is NOT the way God wants things to be.

So when you think of that timeline and the big picture...why would you choose this temporary fallen world over God's perfect will for all creation?

Especially in light of Jesus' teaching about God's will to be done on earth as it is in Heaven. (eternity)

Not only are we exhorted to have an eternal perspective, but we are warned against having the opposite mindset. In Philippians 3, Paul warns against being like those within the church who walk as “enemies of the cross of Christ.” With great sadness, he describes their characteristics and their fate: self-indulgent, with minds set on earthly things, whose end is destruction.

"For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things." Philippians 3:19​

Romans 12:2 also CLEARLY states that we are not to choose this world over God's perfect will:

Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.”​

We are also taught to be prepared for the world to come. Remember the parable of the wise virgins and the foolish virgins? We are not supposed to wait to the last minute to prepare for eternity... but to live as Kingdom people NOW, in this fallen world! That is how we are set apart from others. If not, then how are we different than anyone else?

There's more to say about this, but this is getting too long, so I'll leave it at that for now.

But as Carl said the other day.... your pattern has been to continually ignore everything that is brought up, and to just keep throwing the same stuff against the wall, hoping it will stick. So if all you're going to do is ignore this and continue with your same stuff, then I really don't have the time today to do that. We've been through this so many times on numerous threads.

Aren't we all bringing up the same arguments? What makes yours better than mine?

The last evidence of God's will on meat eating is in the affirmative. I say wait for Christ to bring these changes. Until then let's enjoy what God provides. Money is evil too, but what does God say about it?

"Make friends by its use until it fails." Money hasn't failed yet, so let's keep using it for good purposes until it does.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The Jews were instructed to sacrifice animals, some to be eaten by the Priests and the person that supplied the animal. Some not to be eaten.
God, sitting with Abraham around the fire, ate stew. And was pleased with the smell of sacrificed animals that Noah offered.
God was the first one to kill an animal to cover Adam and Eve's transgression.
But the day is coming when lions will eat straw like the oxen.

 

[buttercup]

Aren't we all bringing up the same arguments? What makes yours better than mine?

The last evidence of God's will on meat eating is in the affirmative. I say wait for Christ to bring these changes. Until then let's enjoy what God provides. Money is evil too, but what does God say about it?

"Make friends by its use until it fails." Money hasn't failed yet, so let's keep using it for good purposes until it does.

You did exactly what I thought you would do, based on going through this with you a guhzillion times. You ignore everything, and just keep repeating the same things. Carl was absolutely right when he said that is your pattern on this topic.

I'm not interested in going around in circles. You are choosing this fallen world over God's true intent for all creation. Period. That's on you.