Veganism and health.

[buttercup]

Plant based diet of those who learned at the feet of Jesus

“James, the brother of the Lord, lived on seeds and plants and touched neither meat nor wine.” The Apostle Thomas: “He continually fasts and prays, and abstaining from the eating of flesh…” “…The Apostle Matthew partook of seeds, and nuts, hard-shelled fruits, and vegetables, without flesh.” (these apostolic veg passages with attribution of sources is to be found further below in the section titled, The Vegetarian Apostles, Leadership of the Original Jesus Movement)

Peter: “Then Peter answered: ‘To do anything for pleasure, not for the sake of necessity, is to sin and therefore I earnestly entreat you to abstain from all animal food, in the hope that by this you may be able to retain your self-restraint, and not to be overpowered by the allurements of pleasure. For in the beginning, the eating of flesh was unknown until after the flood, when, against their will, men were compelled to use the flesh of animals, because all things that were planted had been destroyed by the waters… But let no one think that by abstinence from things offered to idols he will fulfill the law. For what commands us to keep ourselves from idolatry also teaches us that we should eat only of the fruits of trees and seeds and plants, and abstain from all animal food, and from all injury of animals; and with regard to our food, that it should be purely vegetable.’” (Why God Has Forbidden Certain Foods, Book of the Clementine Homilies)

Peter said, “I live on olives and bread, to which I rarely only add vegetables…” “The unnatural eating of flesh meats is as polluting as the heathen worship of devils…” (Peter, Clementine Homilies)

Have you seen the documentary Christspiracy yet?

It's really, really interesting. And it's well done. There's a lot of stuff about early Christianity that most modern Christians know little to nothing about. One of the film's points is that that info has been purposely suppressed. If you haven't seen it yet, I'm pretty sure you can watch it on the Christspiracy website, for free.

I want to do more research on all that early history.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Have you seen the documentary Christspiracy yet?

It's really, really interesting. And it's well done. There's a lot of stuff about early Christianity that most modern Christians know little to nothing about. One of the film's points is that that info has been purposely suppressed. If you haven't seen it yet, you can watch it on the Christspiracy website, for free.

I want to do more research on all that early history.

Thanks. I will.
I do see that modern Christians live in a bubble and are vastly removed from "the faith once delivered to the saints."

There is so much evidence that traditional Christians just ignore how our Founding Fathers actually lived their lives. We should be following the example of those we already know have pleased God -- whose salvation is already known.

 

[Woodznutz]

Already went over this just last night. Dominion was and is NOT a license to do whatever the hell we want with animals. What many folks seem unaware of is that in the very next verse after the dominion verse, God gave mankind and all creation our diet which was 100% plantbased. (Genesis 1:29-30)

So obviously dominion did NOT mean "you can eat and abuse the animals" since immediately after we were given dominion we were given a plantbased diet.

I wrote a blog post on this specific topic. I thought you and I had this same conversation before (maybe it was someone else) but IF you have any interest in the topic of dominion, you can check out that blog post if you want:

A Closer Look At Dominion - Live Mercifully

As a Christian vegan, one of the most common objections to veganism that I encounter when talking to other Christians is, “But man was given dominion over the animals.” So I want to talk about this very important concept that I believe has been deeply misunderstood. This misunderstanding is at...

www.livemercifully.com

I also did a video on it, that I posted last night, a page or two back on this thread.

The animal world is hardly merciful. It's eat and be be eaten. Until we abandon "humane kill" the python problem in the Everglades will just get worse.

 

[Woodznutz]

Yeah, I don't know what I'd do without my pet human.

What do you feed your pet human, vegetables?

 

[Woodznutz]

Right now I'll answer this one question.

Noah and his family JUST landed in dry ground.

Tell me this: where are the farms? Where are the crops? Where are the orchards?
The earth has been COVERED for months. What is there to eat?

God gave Noah a command that you've decided He also gave you. Why do you assume that He was giving YOU permission? Do you have no other options today? Do you really NEED to take an innocent life?

Maybe the command was for NOAH and his family and not us 4,000 years later

Yabut you still have Abraham preparing meat for the Lord, Isaac enjoying venison, and other examples of God's chosen eating meat, after the flood. And you can't hide from this.

Romans 14:2
One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What do you feed your pet human, vegetables?

Nope, Americans.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You're still ignoring almost everything I've been saying.

Not ignoring it, I don't need to address every word you type.
Eat what you want. God gave us everything that moves as food.
Jesus ate fish whether it fits or narrative or not.
Abel killed the offering he presented to the Lord. He didn't render fat from a live animal.
There is nothing taken outwardly in that defiles the temple.
Your opinions don't change scripture.

What Carl doesn't understand:
Brandi was 21 when a deer jumped out in front of her. She swerved, hit a tree head on, and that was her last day of life.
There are so many deer here because of all the fields of corn. It has become such a dangerous situation, that they give out hunting licenses year round. And we are safer because of it.
That may upset you, but common sense prevails. Deer are nice. Brandi is irreplaceable.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You just keep repeating it as if I never said anything

THIS is why I'm done responding. She's gotten her answer countless times but she never even addressed the answer she's gotten. She stumbles over the truth, picks herself up and carries on as if you never responded. I see that as pure dishonesty.

lol. Let's no kid ourselves. You can't respond to scripture. It shows up and you fade.

 

[buttercup]

The animal world is hardly merciful. It's eat and be be eaten. Until we abandon "humane kill" the python problem in the Everglades will just get worse.

Yet again you're stating something that has already been addressed, like 10,000 times.

Yes of course some animals are carnivores, because this is a fallen world. It's not the way it was in the beginning. In the beginning, in the Garden of Eden, both animals and humans were given a plantbased diet (Genesis 1:29-30) and God's design and intent was peace and harmony among all creation.

As has already been stated, once the fall happened things began to change, and have pretty much gone downhill ever since.

So it is extremely misleading (or even deceptive, if it's done knowingly) for you to say "the world is hardly merciful" if you're implying that is what God wants, when the exact opposite is true. There are countless scriptures that clearly state God wants MERCY. He wants us to be merciful.

You can't use the fallen world as an excuse to just throw your hands up in the air and say "this is a fallen world so let's go with it." We've talked about this specific point SO many times, over and over. We are supposed to have a Kingdom perspective, not a worldly perspective. We are supposed to pray for and want God's Kingdom to come and will to be done on earth as it is in Heaven. That's the part you always ignore, while just repeating the same stuff over and over again, never addressing what is being said.

I don't want to be rude, but when people bring things up that have already been addressed over and over, sometimes I wonder if you and others are elderly folk (in their 80s or 90s) who have trouble with their memory.... or maybe going senile.

Carl suggested that maybe God is using you to bring up the same arguments over and over so that OTHERS who haven't read these threads can hear the message. I don't know if that's the case, but come on, you gotta admit, it IS odd that you keep bringing up the same things over and over that have already been addressed.

 

[defcon4]

Veganism eschews the natural fertilization of crops using animal manures in favor of chemical fertilizers. These chemicals already have a profound environmental impact, which would be manifold times worse if veganism expands beyond its current numbers.

The Hidden Dangers of Chemical Fertilizers -- Environmental Protection

Because the damage caused by chemical fertilizers is often long-term and cumulative, it may be wiser to consider alternative and sustainable methods of fertilizing the soil.

eponline.com

Veganism is good for winning Darwin Awards.

Vegan raw food diet influencer Zhanna D’Art dies of suspected starvation: report

Vegan influencer Zhanna Samsonova has died of starvation after reportedly subsisting exclusively off a diet of exotic fruit in Southeast Asia, according to her friends and family. She was 39 years …

nypost.com

 

[Twisted Gypsy Child]

I gotta make like a baby and head out, I have a meeting at 1 (in 5 minutes.) I'll try to get back here later, to reply to any recent posts.

A diet high in fiber makes dropping the kids off at the pool a wonderful experience. To be honest when I go it smells like roses.

 

[buttercup]

Not ignoring it, I don't need to address every word you type.
Eat what you want. God gave us everything that moves as food.
Jesus ate fish whether it fits or narrative or not.
Abel killed the offering he presented to the Lord. He didn't render fat from a live animal.
There is nothing taken outwardly in that defiles the temple.
Your opinions don't change scripture.

What Carl doesn't understand:
Brandi was 21 when a deer jumped out in front of her. She swerved, hit a tree head on, and that was her last day of life.
There are so many deer here because of all the fields of corn. It has become such a dangerous situation, that they give out hunting licenses year round. And we are safer because of it.
That may upset you, but common sense prevails. Deer are nice. Brandi is irreplaceable.

Already addressed nearly all of those things. Yes you ARE ignoring it if you bring them up again afterward as if they are objective truths and not even acknowledging or having a counter-argument to my posts on those specific assertions. I understand and agree that you don't need to address every word that is typed on this thread. But if you're going to keep bringing things up that have already been addressed, it's not cool or honest to act as if you're stating objective truths that everyone agrees on while completely ignoring the debate! You're a regular on this site, I'm sure you know that debate is a two-way street. It's back and forth. If I address the points you bring up, then please address what I've said... if not then it's not a debate or true discussion.

But anyway... I'm getting tired of this entire topic at the moment. Too much repetition, not enough true debate and discussion. And I have other things I have to do today. Plus, it's kinda funny to me that the last several pages have been completely off topic to the OP and we've been talking religion in the Health and Lifestyle section. (Don't get me wrong, I'm guilty of that too, all of us talking religion have been, just saying it's all off topic.)

 

[Twisted Gypsy Child]

buttercup I am really liking Chicory Coffee. Roasted chicory.
Not coffee with chicory added. Excellent health benefits as well.

Roasted chicory prepared with hydrogen water is a delicious way to start or end the day.

Chicory Coffee: A Healthy Alternative to Coffee?

Chicory coffee has gained popularity as a healthy substitute for coffee, but it is good for you? Here's a look at the evidence.

www.healthline.com

Chicory Coffee: A Healthy Alternative to Coffee?

Chicory coffee has gained popularity as a healthy substitute for coffee, but it is good for you? Here's a look at the evidence.

www.healthline.com

 

[buttercup]

Veganism is good for winning Darwin Awards.

Vegan raw food diet influencer Zhanna D’Art dies of suspected starvation: report

Vegan influencer Zhanna Samsonova has died of starvation after reportedly subsisting exclusively off a diet of exotic fruit in Southeast Asia, according to her friends and family. She was 39 years …

nypost.com

That's not "veganism," that is a troubled person with eating disorder starving herself and not drinking any water.

Veganism is not about health and diet. It's an ethical stance against the exploitation of animals. Some vegans eat very healthy and others don't. Just like some non-vegans eat healthy and others don't.

 

[buttercup]

buttercup I am really liking Chicory Coffee. Roasted chicory.
Not coffee with chicory added. Excellent health benefits as well.

Roasted chicory prepared with hydrogen water is a delicious way to start or end the day.

Chicory Coffee: A Healthy Alternative to Coffee?

Chicory coffee has gained popularity as a healthy substitute for coffee, but it is good for you? Here's a look at the evidence.

www.healthline.com

Chicory Coffee: A Healthy Alternative to Coffee?

Chicory coffee has gained popularity as a healthy substitute for coffee, but it is good for you? Here's a look at the evidence.

www.healthline.com

Interesting, thanks! I'll look at those links.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Yet again you're stating something that has already been addressed, like 10,000 times.

Yes of course some animals are carnivores, because this is a fallen world.

Then you had better inform the cows. They are still instinctively eating grass. They didn't get the "fallen world" memo.

Carl suggested that maybe God is using Woodznutz to bring up the same arguments over and over so that OTHERS who haven't read these threads can hear the message.
^
Maybe if Carl removed the log out of his own eye, he could listen and understand. His arrogance is out of control. The "sower" has nothing to sow but his own shortcomings, and has been called out by everyone in this thread.

The reason we keep reiterating scripture, is because you and Carl keep saying the same things over and over. Either the 50 of us are wrong, or you and Carl are wrong. What are the odds?

 

[buttercup]

A diet high in fiber makes dropping the kids off at the pool a wonderful experience. To be honest when I go it smells like roses.

Funny but true. A diet high in fiber improves a lot of things, and dropping the kids off at the pool is one of them!

 

[Twisted Gypsy Child]

That's not "veganism," that is a troubled person with eating disorder starving herself and not drinking any water.

Veganism is not about health and diet. It's an ethical stance against the exploitation of animals. Some vegans eat very healthy and others don't. Just like some non-vegans eat healthy and others don't.

Maybe I am not "veganism". I just eat healthy by choice either way we can share recipes and ideas

 

[Twisted Gypsy Child]

Funny but true. A diet high in fiber improves a lot of things, and dropping the kids off at the pool is one of them!

also vegans and vegetarians less likely to have hemorrhoids. A health benefit.

hemorrhoids | Health Topics | NutritionFacts.org

nutritionfacts.org

 

[buttercup]

Then you had better inform the cows. They are still instinctively eating grass. They didn't get the "fallen world" memo.

Carl suggested that maybe God is using Woodznutz to bring up the same arguments over and over so that OTHERS who haven't read these threads can hear the message.
^
Maybe if Carl removed the log out of his own eye, he could listen and understand. His arrogance is out of control. The "sower" has nothing to sow but his own shortcomings, and has been called out by everyone in this thread.

Of course not all animals are carnivores! The existence of herbivores doesn't negate the truth that this is fallen world. Which is a standard Christian teaching, btw. Obviously some animals changed in a much more radical way. Like I mentioned in a previous post to you, there's another theory that is less common and much more controversial, that the fallen angels when they messed with creation genetically, MIGHT have something to do with why certain animals became ferocious. I'm not saying that is what I believe, just saying that is one view on why certain animals are the way they are now, while others are still mild and herbivorous.

The reason we keep reiterating scripture, is because you and Carl keep saying the same things over and over. Either the 50 of us are wrong, or you and Carl are wrong. What are the odds?

I never use the majority as a gage of what is true or not true. The older I get and the more I learn, I've realized that the majority is wrong about a lot of things. The problem is not that you are reiterating scripture, I was specifically talking about not addressing arguments or counter-arguments.