Vaxed transmit COVID as easily as unVaxed...

But they do work. You just sourced data that showed Pfizer going from 90% to 84% in 6 months, that’s pretty damn good. Also all data points to those 10-15% that do catch it having much less sever reactions. There are also booster shots available. You are right about variants. God help is if one comes out that is resistant to the vaccines. That will throw the world back into shutdown and mask mode. Nobody wants that so why are so many fighting against taking the safest route to knocking this thing out?!

Even if you vaccinate everyone it will not stop Covid and at the rate the virus mutates the vaccine might be worthless soon.

Again, the vaccine is not a cure and those that have been vaccinated can contract the variants of the virus and spread them and even die from them, so let not pretend the vaccine is a damn cure but what it is is something that should lessen the symptoms of Covid while keeping people from overwhelming the medical system!
 
That's the claim... argue with colfax_m .
That is the fact and anyone that claims otherwise are lying!

Look, the Covid vaccine is to lessen the damage the virus does to the system and should keep you out of the Hospital but not everyone will have that success and people will still die and yes the vaccine will sooner or later become worthless when Covid mutates again.
 
Pfizer used to claim 98% effective at one time.
And admitting 84% likely means the reality is much lower.
And the point is it is sinking fast.
Natural immunity is measured in decades, while this is more like just years.

The cause of variants is time, and it is "flattening the curve" that is at fault for that.
There is nothing "safe" about a new synthetic vaccine not FDA approved even.
That is like claiming thalidomide is safe since it passed testing.
You are just flat out wrong... Look at the hospitalization and deaths since the vaccines have come out. Dramatic difference and many many lives saved. That is SAFE. The 98% number came from a study Ukraine did on a small batch of people. Those are the results of that test, do you think they were lying? 84% is a number based on people 6 months after the shot. Still showing a high % of effectiveness for preventing infection and still showing a high prevention of serious effects on those that do catch it.

Natural immunity is not measured in Decades for COVID and hasn't shown to protect against variants in the same way as vaccines.

You aren't showing an understanding of the science and you aren't presenting a logical argument on why it would be safer or better to not be vaccinated and risk getting the disease.
 
Look, the Covid vaccine is to lessen the damage the virus does to the system and should keep you out of the Hospital but not everyone will have that success and people will still die and yes the vaccine will sooner or later become worthless when Covid mutates again.
I don't disagree with any of that.

But...I still think people in a free country have the right to weigh the consequences and make their own decisions.

The Media is the ones spreading the disinformation that vaccines protect you from infection and that the unVaxxed are the only ones transmitting the virus.

Where do you think these people are getting these ideas?!?
 
Negative Ghostrider.

Roughly 63% are fully vaxxed...and 72% have had one shot.

Do that math.

If 70% are vaccinated and 74% of the infected have been vaccinated... That means the vaccinated have a HIGHER rate of infection than the unVaxxed.



So...no...not great news for the vaccination pushers.
I'll respond to you right after you answer my pop quiz question, please don't ignore it again...
Pop Quiz: Let's say Mass had 100% of their population vaccinated. Can you tell me the % of positive cases that would then result from vaccinated people?
 
I don't disagree with any of that.

But...I still think people in a free country have the right to weigh the consequences and make their own decisions.

The Media is the ones spreading the disinformation that vaccines protect you from infection and that the unVaxxed are the only ones transmitting the virus.

Where do you think these people are getting these ideas?!?

Fine, and if any News Outlet is doing this they should be fined and taken off the air no matter what type of misinformation they are giving.

Anyone that believe the vaccine is a cure is wrong and should be corrected and anyone that believe the vaccine can not lessen the symptoms of the virus if contracted should be corrected.

As for choice you will get no argument from me and I will let you make your choice because as you wrote we live in a somewhat ( well that is what I am writing ) society and we have personal choices.

The Vaccine is not fully FDA approved and the final form is most likely a year or two off and the way Covid mutates we will need boosters every year until Humanity perishes…
 
Even if you vaccinate everyone it will not stop Covid and at the rate the virus mutates the vaccine might be worthless soon.

Again, the vaccine is not a cure and those that have been vaccinated can contract the variants of the virus and spread them and even die from them, so let not pretend the vaccine is a damn cure but what it is is something that should lessen the symptoms of Covid while keeping people from overwhelming the medical system!
If everybody was magically vaccinated then then Covid could still spread to 10%-30% and the infections wouldn't be nearly as sever or deadly as whats going on now. This would dramatically improve the current status of our world. The way to ultimately control the virus is with therapeutics and vaccines so we can deal with it like we deal with the Flu.
 
I don't disagree with any of that.

But...I still think people in a free country have the right to weigh the consequences and make their own decisions.

The Media is the ones spreading the disinformation that vaccines protect you from infection and that the unVaxxed are the only ones transmitting the virus.

Where do you think these people are getting these ideas?!?
You're playing games of absolutes. What I hear about the vaccines isn't that it is bullet proof, it is that they all have efficacy rates which means some will still get infected. I also don't hear anybody saying that the unvaxxed are the ONLY ones transmitting the virus. Where are you getting that nonsense from?
 
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If everybody was magically vaccinated then then Covid could still spread to 10%-30% and the infections wouldn't be nearly as sever or deadly as whats going on now. This would dramatically improve the current status of our world. The way to ultimately control the virus is with therapeutics and vaccines so we can deal with it like we deal with the Flu.

True, but people have trust issues with a vaccine that does not have Full FDA approval and the media and Government, so the idea of getting people fully vaccinated is impossible.

Now with that written it amazes me how all sides have been playing games with the truth about Covid, the spread, the mutation rate and the Vaccine and it effectiveness and it is pissing me off!

I wish people would just be honest and stop the spin!
 
I'll respond to you right after you answer my pop quiz question, please don't ignore it again...
Pop Quiz: Let's say Mass had 100% of their population vaccinated. Can you tell me the % of positive cases that would then result from vaccinated people?
100%

Yes...I get that... Even if the total number of cases was one...it could still be honestly reported that 100% of the cases in Massachusetts were vaccinated.

When you read US 'journalism' you have to know every trick and every biased framing device.

But this ain't that.

If A is the population of Massachusetts...

...and If subset B is 72% of the population that is vaccinated and subset C is the other 28%...

If the group of those testing positive for COVID-19 Delta contains 74% from B and 26% from C... I think we can safely label that 2% deviation a margin of error and call the vaccination a non-factor in terms of transmission and infection of COVID-19 Delta.
 
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You're playing games of absolutes. What I hear about the vaccines isn't that it is bullet proof, it is that they all have efficacy rates which means some will still get infected. I also don't hear anybody saying that the unvaxxed are the ONLY ones transmitting the virus. Where are you getting that nonsense from?



 
Now with that written it amazes me how all sides have been playing games with the truth about Covid, the spread, the mutation rate and the Vaccine and it effectiveness and it is pissing me off!

I wish people would just be honest and stop the spin!
I agree with that as well.

If we are really being honest... the powers that be don't trust us with the truth. They know the outcome they desire and put their collective thumb on the scale from what information is released, how it is released and what is emphasized and what is minimized.

And maybe they have valid justifications.

Trump wanted to reassure and alleviate panic...Fauci masks for healthcare ... Biden wants a second term ... the WHO wants to keep China form nuking them forum orbit...the CDC want not to be blamed. And maybe some of those people have the bet intentions...but continually lying or flip-flopping or making pandemic decisions based on political motivations... that instills nothing but distrust.
 
Politicians, politicos and the MSM has invested a lot of time and energy in promoting the narrative that the unvaccinated are solely responsible for the current rise in reported COVID-19 cases in the US.

That well crafted narrative has been destroyed...


"People can carry “enormous” amounts of the delta variant virus in their nose and throat — regardless of vaccination status, reported The New York Times."




If both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated transmit the virus easily... that removes the key pillar of the argument against those refusing the vaccine.

Once again... It's a person's choice of they wish to take their 99% chance of defeating the virus and building natural immunity.


In other words, the Covid-19 virus is an IDEAL virus perfect for infecting human beings!

But it just arose naturally from a bat in China, right? :smoke:
 
Being vaccinated does not mean you can’t contract the virus or spread it or even die from it!

Being vaccinated mean it should or could lessen the symptoms which mean keeping you out of the Hospital and not overwhelming the medical system.

The vaccine is not a cure!
it is not a 'vaccine'....
 
no it’s not your choice when you get other people sick.

RISK AVERSION:
  • We should just give up dating, socializing, working, even driving, because in everything we do, there is ALWAYS a risk that you could give someone the cold, catch a STD, or even hit them with your car!


BUBBLES EVERYONE!



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True, but people have trust issues with a vaccine that does not have Full FDA approval and the media and Government, so the idea of getting people fully vaccinated is impossible.

Now with that written it amazes me how all sides have been playing games with the truth about Covid, the spread, the mutation rate and the Vaccine and it effectiveness and it is pissing me off!

I wish people would just be honest and stop the spin!
You are correct people have trust issues. I have trust issues. I still got the shot. The problem is that people do have trust issues and we have political leaders that aren't messaging responsibly, they are feeding into the doubt and skepticism which is making the problem worse and prolonging the spread and damage. .

I completely agree with you about the games and the lies. It is disgusting. And yes it is happening on both sides. I just think the side erring on the side of caution is the more responsible position.
 

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