VA Beach Munc Cntr Shooting: 11 Killed by Emp

[OldLady]

Considering they haven't mentioned his political party yet.......good chance he is a democrat and obama/bernie bro.........that they haven't mentioned an AR-15 yet....likely he didn't use one...

But, we can wait to see what we find out....

Actually, what we've found out so far is that he's a veteran and was a loyal employee of this place for 16 years... who just snapped one day.

Maybe we'll find out he had a boss who was ******* with him... or maybe he was crazy for years.

Key thing. He was able to legally get guns and kill a lot of people. That's what's messed up.

No.....600 million guns in private hands today......one man walked into that place and broke the law.....he was messed up, not the other several million gun owners......

And considering that as more Americans own and carry guns....more than ever before, and our gun murder rate has gone down, not up.....you have no valid point....

Also....none of your gun laws that you asshats wanted stopped him.......your gun free zone law allowed him access to unarmed victims.....

He stopped murdering people when people with guns started shooting back at him.......showing you don't know what you are talking about...

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

I don't know where these numbers come from, but if we are so much safer than we were in '93, WHY are mass shootings becoming a monthly if not weekly incident in our country?
Do you really think that if everyone working in that building yesterday was armed, they would have had the wherewithal to stop him? Dig the pistol out of your bag or briefcase or desk drawer, hole up behind something sturdy to shield you and try to peek out and take aim. All of this with him shooting and people dropping all around you, others screaming and running. Only a trained professional cop or soldier would be able to do that and it would be dangerous as hell. Most people would duck and hide, hope for the best and worry about their own ass, not being Clark Kent.

Nonsense. People defend themselves every day because they have the freedom to do so. When I go to the range, it’s usually packed with people working on their marksmanship.

Your avi is inappropriate. We don't point guns at people.

 

[OldLady]

Considering they haven't mentioned his political party yet.......good chance he is a democrat and obama/bernie bro.........that they haven't mentioned an AR-15 yet....likely he didn't use one...

But, we can wait to see what we find out....

Actually, what we've found out so far is that he's a veteran and was a loyal employee of this place for 16 years... who just snapped one day.

Maybe we'll find out he had a boss who was ******* with him... or maybe he was crazy for years.

Key thing. He was able to legally get guns and kill a lot of people. That's what's messed up.

No.....600 million guns in private hands today......one man walked into that place and broke the law.....he was messed up, not the other several million gun owners......

And considering that as more Americans own and carry guns....more than ever before, and our gun murder rate has gone down, not up.....you have no valid point....

Also....none of your gun laws that you asshats wanted stopped him.......your gun free zone law allowed him access to unarmed victims.....

He stopped murdering people when people with guns started shooting back at him.......showing you don't know what you are talking about...

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

I don't know where these numbers come from, but if we are so much safer than we were in '93, WHY are mass shootings becoming a monthly if not weekly incident in our country?
Do you really think that if everyone working in that building yesterday was armed, they would have had the wherewithal to stop him? Dig the pistol out of your bag or briefcase or desk drawer, hole up behind something sturdy to shield you and try to peek out and take aim. All of this with him shooting and people dropping all around you, others screaming and running. Only a trained professional cop or soldier would be able to do that and it would be dangerous as hell. Most people would duck and hide, hope for the best and worry about their own ass, not being Clark Kent.

Nonsense. People defend themselves every day because they have the freedom to do so. When I go to the range, it’s usually packed with people working on their marksmanship.

Yup. And that is a different kettle of fish from being surrounded by live fire.

 

[westwall]

Police have said the suspect was armed with a .45-caliber handgun. Cervera said Saturday that more weapons were found at the scene and at his home, but declined to elaborate.

Craddock, 40, was a professional engineer who had graduated from Denbigh High School in nearby Newport News in 1996 and joined the Army National Guard, according to a newspaper clip from the time. He received basic military training and advanced individual training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. He later graduated from Old Dominion University with a bachelor’s degree in civil engineering. Before going to work in Virginia Beach, he worked for a private engineering firm in Hampton Roads.

Craddock appears to have had no felony record, which would have made him eligible to purchase firearms

Officials ID Virginia Beach gunman as city employee

What "common sense" gun control laws would have prevented this shooting?
How is it possible for this shooting take place in a gun free zone?

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

 

[OldLady]

Police have said the suspect was armed with a .45-caliber handgun. Cervera said Saturday that more weapons were found at the scene and at his home, but declined to elaborate.

Craddock, 40, was a professional engineer who had graduated from Denbigh High School in nearby Newport News in 1996 and joined the Army National Guard, according to a newspaper clip from the time. He received basic military training and advanced individual training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. He later graduated from Old Dominion University with a bachelor’s degree in civil engineering. Before going to work in Virginia Beach, he worked for a private engineering firm in Hampton Roads.

Craddock appears to have had no felony record, which would have made him eligible to purchase firearms

Officials ID Virginia Beach gunman as city employee

What "common sense" gun control laws would have prevented this shooting?
How is it possible for this shooting take place in a gun free zone?

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

But Westwall, who was the last Hispanic to commit a mass shooting? I'm not following?

 

[OldLady]

Police have said the suspect was armed with a .45-caliber handgun. Cervera said Saturday that more weapons were found at the scene and at his home, but declined to elaborate.

Craddock, 40, was a professional engineer who had graduated from Denbigh High School in nearby Newport News in 1996 and joined the Army National Guard, according to a newspaper clip from the time. He received basic military training and advanced individual training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. He later graduated from Old Dominion University with a bachelor’s degree in civil engineering. Before going to work in Virginia Beach, he worked for a private engineering firm in Hampton Roads.

Craddock appears to have had no felony record, which would have made him eligible to purchase firearms

Officials ID Virginia Beach gunman as city employee

What "common sense" gun control laws would have prevented this shooting?
How is it possible for this shooting take place in a gun free zone?

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

Yes, M-14 Shooter made me see that perhaps it is the larger than normal capacity magazines that make the difference. So ban those instead.

 

[rightwinger]

No AR-15 this time but a 45 with large capacity magazines

Those magazines allowed him to remain in a lengthy gun battle with multiple police officers

wrong.....as you know, the gun free zone, the fact that no one else could shoot back allowed him to kill.....the magazine had nothing to do with it as actual research shows...

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN



Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
========
In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
==========
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----


-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

Ask the cops engaged in a shootout how much those large capacity magazines helped him

When will we learn?

 

[bodecea]

The gun was despondent over being fired

Good news...no guns were harmed in this minor incident.

 

[rightwinger]

Officials ID Virginia Beach gunman as city employee

What "common sense" gun control laws would have prevented this shooting?
How is it possible for this shooting take place in a gun free zone?

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

Yes, M-14 Shooter made me see that perhaps it is the larger than normal capacity magazines that make the difference. So ban those instead.

If the large magazines don’t make a difference
Why do mass shooters always choose them over reloading multiple times

 

[westwall]

Officials ID Virginia Beach gunman as city employee

What "common sense" gun control laws would have prevented this shooting?
How is it possible for this shooting take place in a gun free zone?

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

But Westwall, who was the last Hispanic to commit a mass shooting? I'm not following?

Mass shootings are comparatively rare. They get all of the airtime because they are so horrible, and they are tools of the propagandists who wish to disarm us, but they are so rare that you are far more likely to die of somebody hitting you with a hammer. The way to reduce the casualties is eliminate gun free zones, and encourage lawful people to carry concealed.




Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and February 2019, by shooter's race and ethnicity


U.S.: mass shootings by race 1982-2018 | Statista

 

[Moonglow]

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

Yes, M-14 Shooter made me see that perhaps it is the larger than normal capacity magazines that make the difference. So ban those instead.

If the large magazines don’t make a difference
Why do mass shooters always choose them over reloading multiple times

I'd get a belt fed weapon to use if I was gonna do it...

 

[Moonglow]

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

But Westwall, who was the last Hispanic to commit a mass shooting? I'm not following?

Mass shootings are comparatively rare. They get all of the airtime because they are so horrible, and they are tools of the propagandists who wish to disarm us, but they are so rare that you are far more likely to die of somebody hitting you with a hammer. The way to reduce the casualties is eliminate gun free zones, and encourage lawful people to carry concealed.




Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and February 2019, by shooter's race and ethnicity


U.S.: mass shootings by race 1982-2018 | Statista

Looks like the whites win..

62 out of 110 mass shootings were initiated by White shooters

 

[westwall]

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

Yes, M-14 Shooter made me see that perhaps it is the larger than normal capacity magazines that make the difference. So ban those instead.

If the large magazines don’t make a difference
Why do mass shooters always choose them over reloading multiple times

Because the movies have told them to. Before the TV show Miami Vice came along the criminal element almost never used machineguns. After that show if you didn't have a machinegun you weren't a very good criminal.

Media has driven the rise in both quality of guns, and the levels of violence. The assholes of the world see the notoriety given them by the media and think "I can do better".

Refuse to publicize the names of the killers and a lot of this crap would stop.

 

[westwall]

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

But Westwall, who was the last Hispanic to commit a mass shooting? I'm not following?

Mass shootings are comparatively rare. They get all of the airtime because they are so horrible, and they are tools of the propagandists who wish to disarm us, but they are so rare that you are far more likely to die of somebody hitting you with a hammer. The way to reduce the casualties is eliminate gun free zones, and encourage lawful people to carry concealed.




Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and February 2019, by shooter's race and ethnicity


U.S.: mass shootings by race 1982-2018 | Statista

Looks like the whites win..

Of course they do, there are more of them.

 

[rightwinger]

Police have said the suspect was armed with a .45-caliber handgun. Cervera said Saturday that more weapons were found at the scene and at his home, but declined to elaborate.

Craddock, 40, was a professional engineer who had graduated from Denbigh High School in nearby Newport News in 1996 and joined the Army National Guard, according to a newspaper clip from the time. He received basic military training and advanced individual training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. He later graduated from Old Dominion University with a bachelor’s degree in civil engineering. Before going to work in Virginia Beach, he worked for a private engineering firm in Hampton Roads.

Craddock appears to have had no felony record, which would have made him eligible to purchase firearms

Officials ID Virginia Beach gunman as city employee

What "common sense" gun control laws would have prevented this shooting?
How is it possible for this shooting take place in a gun free zone?

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Hard to drive a rental truck through a municipal building

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

But Westwall, who was the last Hispanic to commit a mass shooting? I'm not following?

Mass shootings are comparatively rare. They get all of the airtime because they are so horrible, and they are tools of the propagandists who wish to disarm us, but they are so rare that you are far more likely to die of somebody hitting you with a hammer. The way to reduce the casualties is eliminate gun free zones, and encourage lawful people to carry concealed.




Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and February 2019, by shooter's race and ethnicity


U.S.: mass shootings by race 1982-2018 | Statista

Ohh look the percentages don't match the hype by the press.

 

[westwall]

Police have said the suspect was armed with a .45-caliber handgun. Cervera said Saturday that more weapons were found at the scene and at his home, but declined to elaborate.

Craddock, 40, was a professional engineer who had graduated from Denbigh High School in nearby Newport News in 1996 and joined the Army National Guard, according to a newspaper clip from the time. He received basic military training and advanced individual training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. He later graduated from Old Dominion University with a bachelor’s degree in civil engineering. Before going to work in Virginia Beach, he worked for a private engineering firm in Hampton Roads.

Craddock appears to have had no felony record, which would have made him eligible to purchase firearms

Officials ID Virginia Beach gunman as city employee

What "common sense" gun control laws would have prevented this shooting?
How is it possible for this shooting take place in a gun free zone?

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Hard to drive a rental truck through a municipal building

Not really. And load it up with explosives, like your buddy ole tim mcveigh, and you do a hell of a lot more damage.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

But Westwall, who was the last Hispanic to commit a mass shooting? I'm not following?

Mass shootings are comparatively rare. They get all of the airtime because they are so horrible, and they are tools of the propagandists who wish to disarm us, but they are so rare that you are far more likely to die of somebody hitting you with a hammer. The way to reduce the casualties is eliminate gun free zones, and encourage lawful people to carry concealed.




Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and February 2019, by shooter's race and ethnicity


U.S.: mass shootings by race 1982-2018 | Statista

Looks like the whites win..

62 out of 110 mass shootings were initiated by White shooters

And whites are 70 percent of the population dumb ass. 18 were by blacks yet they are only 13 percent of the population. Go figure.

 

[rightwinger]

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

Yes, M-14 Shooter made me see that perhaps it is the larger than normal capacity magazines that make the difference. So ban those instead.

If the large magazines don’t make a difference
Why do mass shooters always choose them over reloading multiple times

Because the movies have told them to. Before the TV show Miami Vice came along the criminal element almost never used machineguns. After that show if you didn't have a machinegun you weren't a very good criminal.

Media has driven the rise in both quality of guns, and the levels of violence. The assholes of the world see the notoriety given them by the media and think "I can do better".

Refuse to publicize the names of the killers and a lot of this crap would stop.

Blame the media for large magazines?

Which movie?

 

[OldLady]

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

But Westwall, who was the last Hispanic to commit a mass shooting? I'm not following?

Mass shootings are comparatively rare. They get all of the airtime because they are so horrible, and they are tools of the propagandists who wish to disarm us, but they are so rare that you are far more likely to die of somebody hitting you with a hammer. The way to reduce the casualties is eliminate gun free zones, and encourage lawful people to carry concealed.




Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and February 2019, by shooter's race and ethnicity


U.S.: mass shootings by race 1982-2018 | Statista

They are no longer rare at all.

 

[westwall]

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

But Westwall, who was the last Hispanic to commit a mass shooting? I'm not following?

Mass shootings are comparatively rare. They get all of the airtime because they are so horrible, and they are tools of the propagandists who wish to disarm us, but they are so rare that you are far more likely to die of somebody hitting you with a hammer. The way to reduce the casualties is eliminate gun free zones, and encourage lawful people to carry concealed.




Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and February 2019, by shooter's race and ethnicity


U.S.: mass shootings by race 1982-2018 | Statista

They are no longer rare at all.

Yes, they still are. Most of the so called "mass shootings" actually are not. They are family members running amuck killing their perceived enemies. Mass shootings, like this one, are still very rare. We have a population of 330 million legal people, and at least 11 million illegals. Compare our population with the entire continent of Europe, and you will find that our violent crime rate is actually lower, and the murder rates are similar with Europe's rates actually increasing far faster than ours are.