Uvalde "Communications Breakdown" is Bunk. Parents Say They Could Hear Shots as Police Chief Stood Down Fully Armed Cops for 50 Minutes

[munkle]

TV news gave a hint of how they will try to spin it as a "communications breakdown" between the 911 dispatch taking calls from kids inside being killed, for 50 minutes, and the police chief saying he thought the shooting was over and Ramos was barricaded.

Nevermind you would storm because you could have wounded kids who were bleeding out by the second.

But the record is clear. You could hear the damn shots as cops held parents back.

Remembering the victims of the Uvalde, Texas massacre

Family members and friends shared photos and memories of their loved ones who were killed. Here’s what they want everyone to remember about the people they lost.

www.cnn.com

"There were five or six of (us) fathers, hearing the gunshots, and (police officers) were telling us to move back," Cazares told the paper. "We didn't care about us. We wanted to storm the building. We were saying, 'Let's go' because that is how worried we were, and we wanted to get our babies out."

Interestingly the Post seems to have already scrubbed out this little detail, probably already figuring how to pass it off.

Uvalde Mother Says She ‘Could Hear the Shots’ As She Picked Up Her Kids From School

One mother, Angélica Gómez, managed to pick up her two children from Robb Elementary School as the shooting took place.

wearemitu.com

"As Gómez describes, she could “hear the shots” fired when she arrived at the school to pick up her two children, Vladimir and Pablo. She said, “I couldn’t wait because I needed to pick up kids. If they killed me, they killed me, but I did go in and got my kids.”

The mother explains that they wanted to detain her, but she said, “You are not going to stop this mother.” She stated, “They wanted to stop me… take me to jail” but she “wasn’t scared.” Gómez also explained that when she grabbed her kids, she didn’t know if the gunman would see her and her children. "

"Communications breakdown..."



photo source

 

[scruffy]

Why is that police chief not fired yet?

 

[Turtlesoup]

TV news gave a hint of how they will try to spin it as a "communications breakdown" between the 911 dispatch taking calls from kids inside being killed, for 50 minutes, and the police chief saying he thought the shooting was over and Ramos was barricaded.

Nevermind you would storm because you could have wounded kids who were bleeding out by the second.

But the record is clear. You could hear the damn shots as cops held parents back.

Remembering the victims of the Uvalde, Texas massacre

Family members and friends shared photos and memories of their loved ones who were killed. Here’s what they want everyone to remember about the people they lost.

www.cnn.com

"There were five or six of (us) fathers, hearing the gunshots, and (police officers) were telling us to move back," Cazares told the paper. "We didn't care about us. We wanted to storm the building. We were saying, 'Let's go' because that is how worried we were, and we wanted to get our babies out."

Interestingly the Post seems to have already scrubbed out this little detail, probably already figuring how to pass it off.

Uvalde Mother Says She ‘Could Hear the Shots’ As She Picked Up Her Kids From School

One mother, Angélica Gómez, managed to pick up her two children from Robb Elementary School as the shooting took place.

wearemitu.com

"As Gómez describes, she could “hear the shots” fired when she arrived at the school to pick up her two children, Vladimir and Pablo. She said, “I couldn’t wait because I needed to pick up kids. If they killed me, they killed me, but I did go in and got my kids.”

The mother explains that they wanted to detain her, but she said, “You are not going to stop this mother.” She stated, “They wanted to stop me… take me to jail” but she “wasn’t scared.” Gómez also explained that when she grabbed her kids, she didn’t know if the gunman would see her and her children. "

"Communications breakdown..."



photo source
View attachment 652620

A hell of a lot more kids would have died had the border patrol not showed up, knocked down the door, killed the gunman, and rescued the kids.

You will never see Biden pin a medal on them though.

 

[night_son]

The police—all police agencies everywhere and at every government level—are paramilitary organs of the state. They take orders and follow them to the letter, no matter what they entail. Security of the state is their first priority; allow me to repeat: security of the state is their first priority. That whole to serve and protect thing? What it really means is to serve and protect the government and corporate America. Why do you think modern day cops shoot so many innocent civilians and are so quick to draw and fire their sidearms? Because the safety of the public at large is a very low priority objective and cops sure as hell care more about their own safety than that of a bunch of strangers' children.

The primary job of the police is to enforce order and compliance at all costs and by any means necessary. two decades into our post 9/11 world the police are more occupying army than domestic law enforcement; Americans can't seem to get that through their thick skulls. Don't get me wrong . . . cops are human and many of them are personable enough but when push comes to shove they will kill you to achieve compliance and they will sit around and wait for a tactical team or suitable body armor before sticking their own asses out there.

What's even worse is politicians, local and state and federal level, control the police absolutely and will use them without thought to achieve political goals or enforce political ideology. Modern police might as well be temple guards in a nationwide shrine where government MUST be worshipped as god.

In the Uvalde case the law enforcement agencies involved will do whatever it takes to save face and march in lockstep with whatever political narrative they are given. The whole situation stinks and the only reason we the general public know it stinks is because the media messed up reporting on this particular mass shooting; that or they just don't care anymore about covering their tracks as well.

 

[candycorn]

Along the same lines as a broken clock being right twice a day, the spirit of the OP is pretty much dead on in this case. I didn't read the ranting lunacy of the OP itself...as I have become accustomed to this particular maggot being a complete dipshit.

But a "communications breakdown" didn't happen here. What did happen, put in the best light, is that apparently the police on the scene followed procedure of the incident commander and didn't make an on-the-spot assessment/reaction until the Border Patrol took matters into their own hands.

Embattled Uvalde school police chief won't be sworn in to council seat as planned, mayor says

Chief Pete Arredondo has been faulted for failing to order emergency entry during the siege. He was elected to the City Council before the attack.

www.nbcnews.com

"Despite the ultimate presence of city, state and federal law enforcement officers who presumably could have pulled rank and assumed command, Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steven McCraw said it was Arredondo's decision alone to await more resources for what he believed was a barricaded suspect.​

​

A SWAT-like team of agents from U.S. Customs and Border Protection apparently defied the chief's order, breached a classroom area and fatally shot the suspect more than an hour after the mass shooting started."​

A full investigation should clear it up and at least get rid of some of the ass-covering but what I think happened was that the ICS--the Incident Command System--itself failed. You learn through the drills to take the orders from the incident commander in a situation. I cannot find out where the Incident Commander was in this case--physicially where he was--but I'm guessing he wasn't in the hallway with the other officers. He was "playing it" like a hostage situation if he was giving any serious thought to it at all. Anyway, in the drills, you have the Operations, Logistics, Planning and Fin/Admin branches of the ICS. And if you are in Ops, you do what the section chief of Ops tells you to do--if you're the section chief, you do what the incident commander tells you to do. If they say, stand down, you stand down. If they say "go", you go. If you're talking about gunshots...there is little to no chance that the Incident Commander is or should be thinking that there is a siege going on and a hostage situation is taking place. You're not shooting if there are hostages. So I, too, call bullshit on any sort of "communications break down."

I'd be willing to bet that the Border Patrol was outside of the ICS--that Arredondo didn't even know they were there or, at least, they hadn't gotten the word to "stand down" and wait.

The ultimate tragic thing about this is that all of this is recorded in some form or fashion. The radio transmissions, the orders given, and even the onlookers with cell phone cameras. The can and should be a whole story told at some point. But since there is no one to put on trial for the murder, there won't be any money allocated to the purpose. If the creep would have survived, the DA would be doing a whole lot of investigating. But what is going to happen is that the families will sue the ISD. The ISD is going to lawyer up. The families will have limited resources to pursue this and you won't have a thorough Warren Commission type report on this shooting. You'll have an out of court settlement with NDAs and a total whitewash. Arredondo will retire with a pension, and we will just turn the page.

What we should do is re-tool the ICS to give the strike teams and task forces (units within the Ops framework) a green light in a situation like this to save human lives.

The strike team isn't as utilitarian as it sounds. They could be firemen doing a controlled burn, an epidemiologist taking samples, or someone testing the sea water to see if red tide is coming in.
What should have happened is that the cops in the hallway should have formed up a strike team to enter the room or at least try to take down the gunman. At 11:35 AM, there were four officers in the school. One of them should have assumed command. The ICS sort of teaches you to take these measured steps and rely on someone who has overwatch to make the calls. There wasn't time for this obviously. If there is still shooting going on--which there was--you've got to do something.

What we know, minute by minute, about how the Uvalde shooting and police response unfolded

State officials provided a timeline of the massacre and have corrected crucial details amid public demands for information on how authorities handled the situation.

www.texastribune.org

 

[SweetSue92]

The police—all police agencies everywhere and at every government level—are paramilitary organs of the state. They take orders and follow them to the letter, no matter what they entail. Security of the state is their first priority; allow me to repeat: security of the state is their first priority. That whole to serve and protect thing? What it really means is to serve and protect the government and corporate America. Why do you think modern day cops shoot so many innocent civilians and are so quick to draw and fire their sidearms? Because the safety of the public at large is a very low priority objective and cops sure as hell care more about their own safety than that of a bunch of strangers' children.

The primary job of the police is to enforce order and compliance at all costs and by any means necessary. two decades into our post 9/11 world the police are more occupying army than domestic law enforcement; Americans can't seem to get that through their thick skulls. Don't get me wrong . . . cops are human and many of them are personable enough but when push comes to shove they will kill you to achieve compliance and they will sit around and wait for a tactical team or suitable body armor before sticking their own asses out there.

What's even worse is politicians, local and state and federal level, control the police absolutely and will use them without thought to achieve political goals or enforce political ideology. Modern police might as well be temple guards in a nationwide shrine where government MUST be worshipped as god.

In the Uvalde case the law enforcement agencies involved will do whatever it takes to save face and march in lockstep with whatever political narrative they are given. The whole situation stinks and the only reason we the general public know it stinks is because the media messed up reporting on this particular mass shooting; that or they just don't care anymore about covering their tracks as well.

I don't know what kind of rabbit hole you fell down but you really need to crawl your way out.

You're only partly right here. But you're convinced you are absolutely right down to the individual police officer level all around the great nation.

In a word: please.

 

[SweetSue92]

Along the same lines as a broken clock being right twice a day, the spirit of the OP is pretty much dead on in this case. I didn't read the ranting lunacy of the OP itself...as I have become accustomed to this particular maggot being a complete dipshit.

But a "communications breakdown" didn't happen here. What did happen, put in the best light, is that apparently the police on the scene followed procedure of the incident commander and didn't make an on-the-spot assessment/reaction until the Border Patrol took matters into their own hands.

Embattled Uvalde school police chief won't be sworn in to council seat as planned, mayor says

Chief Pete Arredondo has been faulted for failing to order emergency entry during the siege. He was elected to the City Council before the attack.

www.nbcnews.com

"Despite the ultimate presence of city, state and federal law enforcement officers who presumably could have pulled rank and assumed command, Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steven McCraw said it was Arredondo's decision alone to await more resources for what he believed was a barricaded suspect.​

​

A SWAT-like team of agents from U.S. Customs and Border Protection apparently defied the chief's order, breached a classroom area and fatally shot the suspect more than an hour after the mass shooting started."​

A full investigation should clear it up and at least get rid of some of the ass-covering but what I think happened was that the ICS--the Incident Command System--itself failed. You learn through the drills to take the orders from the incident commander in a situation. I cannot find out where the Incident Commander was in this case--physicially where he was--but I'm guessing he wasn't in the hallway with the other officers. He was "playing it" like a hostage situation if he was giving any serious thought to it at all. Anyway, in the drills, you have the Operations, Logistics, Planning and Fin/Admin branches of the ICS. And if you are in Ops, you do what the section chief of Ops tells you to do--if you're the section chief, you do what the incident commander tells you to do. If they say, stand down, you stand down. If they say "go", you go. If you're talking about gunshots...there is little to no chance that the Incident Commander is or should be thinking that there is a siege going on and a hostage situation is taking place. You're not shooting if there are hostages. So I, too, call bullshit on any sort of "communications break down."

I'd be willing to bet that the Border Patrol was outside of the ICS--that Arredondo didn't even know they were there or, at least, they hadn't gotten the word to "stand down" and wait.

The ultimate tragic thing about this is that all of this is recorded in some form or fashion. The radio transmissions, the orders given, and even the onlookers with cell phone cameras. The can and should be a whole story told at some point. But since there is no one to put on trial for the murder, there won't be any money allocated to the purpose. If the creep would have survived, the DA would be doing a whole lot of investigating. But what is going to happen is that the families will sue the ISD. The ISD is going to lawyer up. The families will have limited resources to pursue this and you won't have a thorough Warren Commission type report on this shooting. You'll have an out of court settlement with NDAs and a total whitewash. Arredondo will retire with a pension, and we will just turn the page.

What we should do is re-tool the ICS to give the strike teams and task forces (units within the Ops framework) a green light in a situation like this to save human lives.

View attachment 652632

The strike team isn't as utilitarian as it sounds. They could be firemen doing a controlled burn, an epidemiologist taking samples, or someone testing the sea water to see if red tide is coming in.
What should have happened is that the cops in the hallway should have formed up a strike team to enter the room or at least try to take down the gunman. At 11:35 AM, there were four officers in the school. One of them should have assumed command. The ICS sort of teaches you to take these measured steps and rely on someone who has overwatch to make the calls. There wasn't time for this obviously. If there is still shooting going on--which there was--you've got to do something.

What we know, minute by minute, about how the Uvalde shooting and police response unfolded

State officials provided a timeline of the massacre and have corrected crucial details amid public demands for information on how authorities handled the situation.

www.texastribune.org

These officers learned in drills to take out the shooter as fast as possible. One on one if necessary.

 

[Weatherman2020]

TV news gave a hint of how they will try to spin it as a "communications breakdown" between the 911 dispatch taking calls from kids inside being killed, for 50 minutes, and the police chief saying he thought the shooting was over and Ramos was barricaded.

Nevermind you would storm because you could have wounded kids who were bleeding out by the second.

But the record is clear. You could hear the damn shots as cops held parents back.

Remembering the victims of the Uvalde, Texas massacre

Family members and friends shared photos and memories of their loved ones who were killed. Here’s what they want everyone to remember about the people they lost.

www.cnn.com

"There were five or six of (us) fathers, hearing the gunshots, and (police officers) were telling us to move back," Cazares told the paper. "We didn't care about us. We wanted to storm the building. We were saying, 'Let's go' because that is how worried we were, and we wanted to get our babies out."

Interestingly the Post seems to have already scrubbed out this little detail, probably already figuring how to pass it off.

Uvalde Mother Says She ‘Could Hear the Shots’ As She Picked Up Her Kids From School

One mother, Angélica Gómez, managed to pick up her two children from Robb Elementary School as the shooting took place.

wearemitu.com

"As Gómez describes, she could “hear the shots” fired when she arrived at the school to pick up her two children, Vladimir and Pablo. She said, “I couldn’t wait because I needed to pick up kids. If they killed me, they killed me, but I did go in and got my kids.”

The mother explains that they wanted to detain her, but she said, “You are not going to stop this mother.” She stated, “They wanted to stop me… take me to jail” but she “wasn’t scared.” Gómez also explained that when she grabbed her kids, she didn’t know if the gunman would see her and her children. "

"Communications breakdown..."



photo source
View attachment 652620

Who needs guns when we have armed police?

 

[SweetSue92]

The police—all police agencies everywhere and at every government level—are paramilitary organs of the state. They take orders and follow them to the letter, no matter what they entail. Security of the state is their first priority; allow me to repeat: security of the state is their first priority. That whole to serve and protect thing? What it really means is to serve and protect the government and corporate America. Why do you think modern day cops shoot so many innocent civilians and are so quick to draw and fire their sidearms? Because the safety of the public at large is a very low priority objective and cops sure as hell care more about their own safety than that of a bunch of strangers' children.

The primary job of the police is to enforce order and compliance at all costs and by any means necessary. two decades into our post 9/11 world the police are more occupying army than domestic law enforcement; Americans can't seem to get that through their thick skulls. Don't get me wrong . . . cops are human and many of them are personable enough but when push comes to shove they will kill you to achieve compliance and they will sit around and wait for a tactical team or suitable body armor before sticking their own asses out there.

What's even worse is politicians, local and state and federal level, control the police absolutely and will use them without thought to achieve political goals or enforce political ideology. Modern police might as well be temple guards in a nationwide shrine where government MUST be worshipped as god.

In the Uvalde case the law enforcement agencies involved will do whatever it takes to save face and march in lockstep with whatever political narrative they are given. The whole situation stinks and the only reason we the general public know it stinks is because the media messed up reporting on this particular mass shooting; that or they just don't care anymore about covering their tracks as well.

PS you're going to miss an awful lot of allies in the future when you lump people together like this. Seriously.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Along the same lines as a broken clock being right twice a day, the spirit of the OP is pretty much dead on in this case. I didn't read the ranting lunacy of the OP itself...as I have become accustomed to this particular maggot being a complete dipshit.

But a "communications breakdown" didn't happen here. What did happen, put in the best light, is that apparently the police on the scene followed procedure of the incident commander and didn't make an on-the-spot assessment/reaction until the Border Patrol took matters into their own hands.

Embattled Uvalde school police chief won't be sworn in to council seat as planned, mayor says

Chief Pete Arredondo has been faulted for failing to order emergency entry during the siege. He was elected to the City Council before the attack.

www.nbcnews.com

"Despite the ultimate presence of city, state and federal law enforcement officers who presumably could have pulled rank and assumed command, Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steven McCraw said it was Arredondo's decision alone to await more resources for what he believed was a barricaded suspect.​

​

A SWAT-like team of agents from U.S. Customs and Border Protection apparently defied the chief's order, breached a classroom area and fatally shot the suspect more than an hour after the mass shooting started."​

A full investigation should clear it up and at least get rid of some of the ass-covering but what I think happened was that the ICS--the Incident Command System--itself failed. You learn through the drills to take the orders from the incident commander in a situation. I cannot find out where the Incident Commander was in this case--physicially where he was--but I'm guessing he wasn't in the hallway with the other officers. He was "playing it" like a hostage situation if he was giving any serious thought to it at all. Anyway, in the drills, you have the Operations, Logistics, Planning and Fin/Admin branches of the ICS. And if you are in Ops, you do what the section chief of Ops tells you to do--if you're the section chief, you do what the incident commander tells you to do. If they say, stand down, you stand down. If they say "go", you go. If you're talking about gunshots...there is little to no chance that the Incident Commander is or should be thinking that there is a siege going on and a hostage situation is taking place. You're not shooting if there are hostages. So I, too, call bullshit on any sort of "communications break down."

I'd be willing to bet that the Border Patrol was outside of the ICS--that Arredondo didn't even know they were there or, at least, they hadn't gotten the word to "stand down" and wait.

The ultimate tragic thing about this is that all of this is recorded in some form or fashion. The radio transmissions, the orders given, and even the onlookers with cell phone cameras. The can and should be a whole story told at some point. But since there is no one to put on trial for the murder, there won't be any money allocated to the purpose. If the creep would have survived, the DA would be doing a whole lot of investigating. But what is going to happen is that the families will sue the ISD. The ISD is going to lawyer up. The families will have limited resources to pursue this and you won't have a thorough Warren Commission type report on this shooting. You'll have an out of court settlement with NDAs and a total whitewash. Arredondo will retire with a pension, and we will just turn the page.

What we should do is re-tool the ICS to give the strike teams and task forces (units within the Ops framework) a green light in a situation like this to save human lives.

View attachment 652632

The strike team isn't as utilitarian as it sounds. They could be firemen doing a controlled burn, an epidemiologist taking samples, or someone testing the sea water to see if red tide is coming in.
What should have happened is that the cops in the hallway should have formed up a strike team to enter the room or at least try to take down the gunman. At 11:35 AM, there were four officers in the school. One of them should have assumed command. The ICS sort of teaches you to take these measured steps and rely on someone who has overwatch to make the calls. There wasn't time for this obviously. If there is still shooting going on--which there was--you've got to do something.

What we know, minute by minute, about how the Uvalde shooting and police response unfolded

State officials provided a timeline of the massacre and have corrected crucial details amid public demands for information on how authorities handled the situation.

www.texastribune.org

Who needs guns when we have an armed government protecting us?

 

[SweetSue92]

Who needs guns when we have an armed government protecting us?

And yet you want armed govt public school teachers right? The ones you post about on the daily, that you can't stand?

Face it. Your ideology is a hot mess.

 

[candycorn]

These officers learned in drills to take out the shooter as fast as possible. One on one if necessary.

Some must have been asleep during that lesson.

When the strike team that actually did the deed got there, you saw action. I don't think it was a coincidence.

 

[candycorn]

And yet you want armed govt public school teachers right? The ones you post about on the daily, that you can't stand?

Face it. Your ideology is a hot mess.

pot meet kettle.

 

[SweetSue92]

Some must have been asleep during that lesson.

When the strike team that actually did the deed got there, you saw action. I don't think it was a coincidence.

What "strike team"? The only one who took appropriate action was the border patrol officer fresh from the barber's chair.

Meanwhile the ISD police officer had recently completed training on this very scenario. And stood around while children died.

Uvalde schools police chief completed active shooter training before shooting, records show

Uvalde schools police chief Pete Arredondo completed active shooter training courses on three separate occasions.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[EvilCat Breath]

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Uvalde has a lot of good men, a lot of good police officers. What they needed was a few like Kyle Rittenhouse.