USA impotent against pirates ?

[The Gadfly]

Thank you for your service.

I am sorry that you had to go through that, but my family, and our Country, sincerely appreciate it.

Seconded

Thirded...lol.

Seriously, thanks for your service. We all appreciate the sacrifices you made to serve our country. If I was worthy, I'd salute you.

Bran,
You ARE worthy; you're an American, you're free; and you don't have to salute anything or anyone(until and unless you put on the uniform yourself). That's what all our wars were fought for, to give you that liberty and choice. It's a gift, freely given; use it well, and wisely.

 

[JBeukema]

it's easy to say in HINDSIGHT what was really going on behind the scenes

Others saw it for what it was at the time. It's just that mentioning the truth in public was likely to get the COINTELPRO sent to keep tabs on you before the FBi took you out.

You can look at conflicts going on today and see the same factors at work. Sometimes it's more evident than others and you do sometimes encounter 'true believers' (as with someof today's jihadist elements), but even then even those movements can ultimately be traced back, directly or indirectly to their roots in class struggle (the ruling class among various groups using religion to secure their hold on power, for instance, gave rise to the Sunni/Shiite divide- and religion continues to be a useful tool for those who use it to control the masses, giving rise to the divides that fuel the current conflicts between Western neochristian and post-Liberal societies, traditional Jews/Zionists, and Islamic fundamentalists in the Middle East).

It's debatable how many among the Taliban, for instance, are true believers and how many (especially among the most influential persons) simply recognize the power of religion as a tool of uniting and controlling the masses.


again, pawns of the ruling elite- an old story played out many times in the history of the world

but if you were 18 at the time, you would have been there right next to gadfly.

Perhaps. Perhaps I would have been in prison or Canada as a conscientious objector. Perhaps I would have been taken out by the FBI for being associated with groups sympathetic to world democracy.

Exactly who did the FBI "take out"? I wasn't aware we "disappeared" people here in America.

Fred Hampton comes to mind

 

[JBeukema]

Seconded

Thirded...lol.

Seriously, thanks for your service. We all appreciate the sacrifices you made to serve our country. If I was worthy, I'd salute you.

Bran,
You ARE worthy; you're an American, you're free; and you don't have to salute anything or anyone(until and unless you put on the uniform yourself). That's what all our wars were fought for, to give you that liberty and choice. It's a gift, freely given; use it well, and wisely.

How, exactly, was suppressing Viet Namese self-determination fighting to give Bran liberty and choice?

Perhaps you mean choice of more brands of cheap goods made in SouthEast Asian sweatshops?

 

[BrianH]

Seconded

Thirded...lol.

Seriously, thanks for your service. We all appreciate the sacrifices you made to serve our country. If I was worthy, I'd salute you.

Bran,
You ARE worthy; you're an American, you're free; and you don't have to salute anything or anyone(until and unless you put on the uniform yourself). That's what all our wars were fought for, to give you that liberty and choice. It's a gift, freely given; use it well, and wisely.

I appreciate that. I got disqualified for military service for two lung surgies I had in high school. I felt as if I had let my country down by not being able to serve. Many of my buddies from high school went on to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a war junky or would even really want to be in a war. I did, however, want to be there with the men and women of my generation to serve.

On a different note, I think JBEk is a dip-shit who doesn't know the difference between supporting a war and supporting the troops. He seems to think the troops all write their opinion on a card and submit it to high command like a survivor episode. I've never been in war JBEK, but I majored in history and have done alot of research on it. War, whether a justified or non-justified war, warps the mind. It can turn the most decent of people into savage killers. Imagine being in a state of extreme alert 24/7. Imagine feeling that the next step could be your last. Imagine having to look someone in the eye before killing them. Regular men are forced to do terrible things in war. They grow up learning values and religion, and then have to reconcile with themselves because a war forced them to go against their life lessons. You need to do some soul searching JBEK and really try to figure out who you're bitching at.

Yes, we all know the world has been controlled by the elite, and it always will be. But that doesn't change the fact that an elitist somewhere will convince his people to kill everyone from another country. And if the other country doesn't have people to defend it, then it will be obliterated. Don't blame our soldiers for our politicians' inability to leave war to the generals.

 

[JBeukema]

Newsflash: VietNam is halfway around the globe

Gadfly wasn't defending us from anything, noone was invading- your rhetoric isn't applicable here

Care to try again?

Correction: actually, it is kinda applicable, since Americans were convinced/coerced to go into another country and kill the locals- your point about a defensive force, then, actually brings up one of the factors behind the guerrilla resistance. I doubt you meant to show why Gadfly was on the wrong end of things and many of the guys trying to kill him were justified in their struggle, but that's what you have done in a moment of honesty I'm sure was unintentional.

 

[BrianH]

Newsflash: VietNam is halfway around the globe

Gadfly wasn't defending us from anything, noone was invading- your rhetoric isn't applicable here

Care to try again?

I didn't say a damn thing about Vietnam dipshit. I said I appreciate his service. It wouldn't matter if he served in Vietnam or Kosovo, I appreciate him being in the military on the premise of serving his country. Whether I agree with the reasons we were there in the first place doesn't amount to shit. I thank HIM for serving in the military. Did Gadfly get to choose where he was sent numbnuts? Do any of our soldiers get to choose where the war is? No, they trust the government, like the taxpayers, to make smart decisions....it's unfortunate that they don't. Like I said in my previous post, learn the difference between government policy and individual soldiers. You're the only one on here looking like a tard.

 

[BrianH]

I wish you could tell him your opinions in person so I could watch him beat the queer out of you.

 

[JBeukema]

Newsflash: VietNam is halfway around the globe

Gadfly wasn't defending us from anything, noone was invading- your rhetoric isn't applicable here

Care to try again?

I didn't say a damn thing about Vietnam dipshit. I said I appreciate his service. It wouldn't matter if he served in Vietnam or Kosovo, I appreciate him being in the military on the premise of serving his country.

'Serving his country'? How, exactly? The fascist elite is the country? You thanked him for his 'service'- in VietNam suppressing self-determination and attempting to preserve the system in which the peasantry was exploited by a foreign power.

Whether I agree with the reasons we were there in the first place doesn't amount to shit.

So you thank Bin Laden for his service to the cause whether you agree with it or not? And the redcoats who tried to prevent American self-determination and preserve colonial rule?

Or are we back to your religion [nationalism] preventing you from being honest with yourself and considering the questions before you?

Again, not all who were drafted went- some went to Canada or accepted imprisonment. Somewhere along the lines, he decided to go where they sent him, during a time when he likely had a good idea where he'd end up.

That he refuses to defend that decision shows the he knows he was wrong in what he did. That he can't defend that decision even on pragmatic grounds (eg: 'I didn't want to be labeled a criminal'), let alone state why he felt/feels he was right to take part in that conflict on the side of the imperialists speaks volumes about what he really believes and knows to be true, even if he can't admit it to himself.

 

[JBeukema]

I wish you could tell him your opinions in person so I could watch him beat the queer out of you.

So we're down to homophobia and violence.

Why do people always resort to violence when they're unable to defend their religion and too cowardly to be honest with themselves and consider what they believe and why?

 

[The Gadfly]

Mini, Brian, and all who've offered thanks,
Thank you, for thinking of all who served. Now, go thank the vet down the street; thank the vets in your own hometown. You may be the very first to welcome some of them home (yes, even after all these years). It'll mean a lot to them, more than you may know. And remember, there is a new generation of vets coming home from the Sandbox. Whatever you think of their war, be sure you welcome them home too. Don't turn your backs on them; they need you. Some carry wounds you can't see; just a handshake and a "thank you" may be the first thing to help them heal. Don't ever let your politics, or your ideology, make you despise them, look down on them, sneer at them, or forget them. Don't ever let that happen to another veteran in America, ever again. They've given what they have, in the hope that you won't have to.

Now it's late, and I'm tired; hell, I'm old. Goodnight, God bless you all (you too, JB; you ARE an American, even if you're an argumentative SOB), God bless the United States of America, and all who protect her.

 

[BrianH]

Newsflash: VietNam is halfway around the globe

Gadfly wasn't defending us from anything, noone was invading- your rhetoric isn't applicable here

Care to try again?

I didn't say a damn thing about Vietnam dipshit. I said I appreciate his service. It wouldn't matter if he served in Vietnam or Kosovo, I appreciate him being in the military on the premise of serving his country.

'Serving his country'? How, exactly? The fascist elite is the country? You thanked him for his 'service'- in VietNam suppressing self-determination and attempting to preserve the system in which the peasantry was exploited by a foreign power.

Whether I agree with the reasons we were there in the first place doesn't amount to shit.

If you pay taxes then you suppor the "facist elite" correct? You talk about having the lack of nuts to abandon ship to Canada....do you have the balls to not pay your taxes? Because it's funding your "elite."
So you thank Bin Laden for his service to the cause whether you agree with it or not? And the redcoats who tried to prevent American self-determination and preserve colonial rule?

I think Bin Laden fights for what he believes in. It just happens to be the exact opposite of what I believe. Oh, and let's not forget that his obligation is to the radical view of his religion where as a United States soldier's obligation is to the nation...completely different scenarios...your logic holds no water here.

Or are we back to your religion [nationalism] preventing you from being honest with yourself and considering the questions before you?

Religion has nothing to do with it. Men in the military are there to protect your right to be the blathering asshole you are.

Again, not all who were drafted went- some went to Canada or accepted imprisonment. Somewhere along the lines, he decided to go where they sent him, during a time when he likely had a good idea where he'd end up.

I didn't say he was drafted shit stain. What if he was already in the military and was sent over there? You ever think of that shit-for-brains? What if he went for the brothers he trained with? What if he went to support and help fight with them? Rather than abandon them when they needed him most?

That he refuses to defend that decision shows the he knows he was wrong in what he did. That he can't defend that decision even on pragmatic grounds (eg: 'I didn't want to be labeled a criminal'), let alone state why he felt/feels he was right to take part in that conflict on the side of the imperialists speaks volumes about what he really believes and knows to be true, even if he can't admit it to himself.

How many people do you know what to be labled as felons and have the rest of their lives ruined?

 

[BrianH]

I wish you could tell him your opinions in person so I could watch him beat the queer out of you.

So we're down to homophobia and violence.

Why do people always resort to violence when they're unable to defend their religion and too cowardly to be honest with themselves and consider what they believe and why?

It's got nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with you being a dick.

 

[jgarden]

The problem with most wars is that "old men in suits," sitting in Washington, put the lives of young people at risk for causes that can't be won and/or aren't worth dying for.

After WW2, most Americans in Vietnam actually disliked the French far more than Ho Chi Minh. American support of the French return to Vietnam was a political "trade-off" - the US needed France's support against the Soviets during the Cold War.

Ho Chi Minh may have been a communist, but he was first and foremost a Vietnamese nationalist. Ho's biggest concern was never the Americans, but with Vietnam's traditional enemy - China!

Like Iraq, American politicians never really understood the complexity of the situation on Vietnam and as a result they sent alot of brave, young, well-intentioned US men and women to their deaths.

After Vietnam, America's military leadership swore that it would never allow itself to be put in that kind of a situation again, but the civilians in the Bush Administration refused to listen!

 

[BrianH]

The problem with most wars is that "old men in suits," sitting in Washington, put the lives of young people at risk for causes that can't be won and/or aren't worth dying for.

After WW2, most Americans in Vietnam actually disliked the French far more than Ho Chi Minh. American support of the French return to Vietnam was a political "trade-off" - the US needed France's support against the Soviets during the Cold War.

Ho Chi Minh may have been a communist, but he was first and foremost a Vietnamese nationalist. Ho's biggest concern was never the Americans, but with Vietnam's traditional enemy - China!

Like Iraq, American politicians never really understood the complexity of the situation on Vietnam and as a result they sent alot of brave, young, well-intentioned US men and women to their deaths.

After Vietnam, America's military leadership swore that it would never allow itself to be put in that kind of a situation again, but the civilians in the Bush Administration refused to listen!

We actually encouraged Vietnam's independence and then financially and militarily supported the French...kind of backwards if you ask me.

 

[britgyll]

I am amazed that if you are rich and have a yacht that pirates want you are not allowed to take a gun onboard your boat. That is stupid to me.

 

[editec]

Somali has no Government. There is no way to bring pressure on a non existent Government to stop the pirates. Leaving just two other options. One option would be to sink any unidentified ships in the region on sight. That of course has many draw backs to it. But would eventually deprive the Somali pirates of the larger craft they need to get into some of the shipping lanes.The second option would be to deploy troops onto the coast of Somali seizing all ports and small villages, burning all shipping and destroying all port facilities of any size. This also has many draw backs. Either way problem solved.

The only solution is for the Europeans and Chinese, who combined to destroy the Somalian' entire way of life - fishing - to send them billions and rebuild the country. Until the Somalians have some way of feeding themselves/making a living as they did for thousands of years - by fishing in their coastal waters, they will have no options but to strike out.

If someone dumped nuclear ******* waste in my waters after completely taking all of the fish, you'd better damn well believe I'd be rather hostile.

Is that just another wild unsubstantiated claim or do have any actual Evidence that someone dumped Nuclear waste off the coast of Somalia?

Will the LONDON TIMES do, or are they just a bunch of liberal liars, too?

Source

THE huge waves which battered northern Somalia after the tsunami in December are believed to have stirred up tonnes of nuclear and toxic waste illegally dumped in the war-racked country during the early 1990s.

Apart from killing about 300 people and destroying thousands of homes, the waves broke up rusting barrels and other containers and hazardous waste dumped along the long, remote shoreline, a spokesman for the United Nations Environment Programme (Unep) said.

“Initial reports indicate that the tsunami waves broke open containers full of toxic waste and scattered the contents. We are talking about everything from medical waste to chemical waste products,” Nick Nuttal, the Unep spokesman, told The Times.

“We know this material is on the land and is now being blown around and possibly carried to villages. What we do not know is the full extent of the problem.”

Mr Nuttall said that a UN assessment mission that recently returned from the lawless African country, which has had no government since 1991, reported that several Somalis in the northern areas were ill with diseases consistent with radiation sickness. “We need more information. We need to find out what has been going on there, but there is real cause for concern,” he added. “We now need to urgently send in a multi-agency expert mission, led by Unep, for a full investigation.”

 

[strollingbones]

where did i imply that nothing should be done mini14....i didnt....

i said..that the ships need to defend themselves...i posted a link to a security company that specializes in defending ships....

not once did i say that the problem should be ignored....i simply dont think the us is policeman to the world...

naive or realistic?

and i see sgt still doesnt answer....how many ships have they sank?

you made the statement ......apparently one out of ignorance

 

[Mini 14]

Perhaps. Perhaps I would have been in prison or Canada as a conscientious objector. Perhaps I would have been taken out by the FBI for being associated with groups sympathetic to world democracy.

We could only hope.

 

[Mini 14]

What, exactly, are you thanking him for?

His service.

If you'd ever grown up, you'd thank him too.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

where did i imply that nothing should be done mini14....i didnt....

i said..that the ships need to defend themselves...i posted a link to a security company that specializes in defending ships....

not once did i say that the problem should be ignored....i simply dont think the us is policeman to the world...

naive or realistic?

and i see sgt still doesnt answer....how many ships have they sank?

you made the statement ......apparently one out of ignorance

Ok DUMB ****, quote for me where I said ANY ships had been sunk. Go ahead. Quote it. I said IF the ships fire on the pirates the pirates can SINK them and would have cause to SINK them.

You have ANY reading comprehension at all?