US to withdraw from NATO?

[SweetTea]

Correct - are you familiar with international law?? obviously not.

Do tell what international law prevents a country from using another country's airspace with consent. All we needed was consent from a fellow NATO country.

 

[Mac-7]

The didn’t start this war

Trump did.

Why do you think you have any right to demand thst Europe bailTrump out of the war he started????????

Fair enough

And the euros have no right to expect America to fight for them either

 

[Hafar1014]

Europe has been taking America for granted its time to rethink our position in NATO. We are subsidizing their socialist economies. We need to scale back our presence in Europe

 

[Kruska]

The Euros provided token support at best

I don't think that getting a 1000+ people killed in Afghanistan and having spend US$ Billions is a "token".

I agree that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake

I don't think so - but the transfer to a new governmnet was a total failure on behalf of the USA. So just ending up in total chaos & creating IS and other nutjobs. And on top creating a power vacuum for Iran.

And afghanistan was not worth dying for beyond the first 6 months of action there

Even then the USA couldn't get Osama - so totally pointless, just the USA and Europe wanting to play creating a new statehood

But neither was the Bosnia and Serbia war that the Euto NATO’s needed US airpower to accomplish

It was the only way to stop Bosnian and Serbs genociding each other. And it was a UN mission. Therefore the UN should also have attacked Israel to stop the genocide in Gaza. (but there is a little problem called USA in the UNSC). The 1999 attack on Serbia was in breach of international Law - however one could also justify it with a preemptive attack to prevent another possible genocide.

However thats water under the bridge

Yes, and NO lessons learned.

As long as europe was led by men and women who lived through WWII and understood that in the face of evil such as the old Soviet Union or Iran today that peace is an unaffordable luxury then NATO had a purpose.

NATO's sole purpose was to DEFEND against possible Soviet aggression. And not to get involved in other countries internal issues or affairs. So NATO should have been closed in 1991 or redefined.

Now the euros want nothing to do with their own defense and expect America to do it for you

Nonsense - before 2022 and NATO's involvement in Ukraine, there was no thread from Russia. And since then Europe-NATO has successively increased their defense spending. The only thing Europe depends onto the USA - due to own laws and constitutions - is the US nuclear umbrella.

But that time is passing

I believe that Europe will start to liberate itself from US control - thus also increasing their own nuke potential. But that is a real complex, $$ and time consuming task. IMO the real start for such a decisive turn will only be if TACO will be replaced by another TACO, or if Democrats & Republican Congress members continue to work hand in hand solely in the interest of US Global Hegemony.

 

[JGalt]

I don't think that getting a 1000+ people killed in Afghanistan and having spend US$ Billions is a "token".

I don't think so - but the transfer to a new governmnet was a total failure on behalf of the USA. So just ending up in total chaos & creating IS and other nutjobs. And on top creating a power vacuum for Iran.

Even then the USA couldn't get Osama - so totally pointless, just the USA and Europe wanting to play creating a new statehood

It was the only way to stop Bosnian and Serbs genociding each other. And it was a UN mission. Therefore the UN should also have attacked Israel to stop the genocide in Gaza. (but there is a little problem called USA in the UNSC). The 1999 attack on Serbia was in breach of international Law - however one could also justify it with a preemptive attack to prevent another possible genocide.

Yes, and NO lessons learned.

NATO's sole purpose was to DEFEND against possible Soviet aggression. And not to get involved in other countries internal issues or affairs. So NATO should have been closed in 1991 or redefined.

Nonsense - before 2022 and NATO's involvement in Ukraine, there was no thread from Russia. And since then Europe-NATO has successively increased their defense spending. The only thing Europe depends onto the USA - due to own laws and constitutions - is the US nuclear umbrella.

I believe that Europe will start to liberate itself from US control - thus also increasing their own nuke potential. But that is a real complex, $$ and time consuming task. IMO the real start for such a decisive turn will only be if TACO will be replaced by another TACO, or if Democrats & Republican Congress members continue to work hand in hand solely in the interest of US Global Hegemony.

You're rather fond of that "TACO" nonsense, aren't you? Maybe you should try to stay current and up to date. Everyone but you has already shifted their narrative from calling Trump a coward and chanting “TACO."

Now they're calling him a madman who has to be stopped at all costs, with no acknowledgement at all that they’ve done a complete 180. There is no more "TACO", just an empty taco shell. No filling, no meat, no lettuce, and no tomatoes. Empty and hollow, just like your souls.

In other words, your "TACO" is now a taco shell with nothing in it. Basically the culinary equivalent of a sad, lonely tortilla that's given up on life. I'd call it a "taco nothing"... or more poetically, a "tacant" (taco + vacant). A shell that knows it was meant for greatness, but sets on the plate, empty and disappointed. Much like its cousin the nothingburger, who lacked substance and went straight to an existential crisis.

 

[Mac-7]

I don't think that getting a 1000+ people killed in Afghanistan and having spend US$ Billions is a "token".

Ok, I’ll concede the point

Trump was mistaken

1144 out of 3400 combat deaths is more than token

The majority - almost half - of the fallen NATO warriors were Brits

So it never hurts to check the record before making brash or bold statements

 

[Kruska]

NATO expansion was not driven by NATO ambitions,

It was driven by Eastern European countries, recently liberated from the Warsaw Pact to remain out from under the Russian boot.

Putin made it clear that his long term objective in invading Ukraine was to restore the Soviet empire and bring the Iron Curtsin crashing back down.

A policy tacitly supported by a Putin’s American stooge, Donald Trump.

Without getting into an endless debate - Bush jun. made a clear promise (verbally) to Russia in the presence of 6 European leaders - Germany even signed a separate treaty with Russia regarding stationing the German (Bundeswehr) into former East-Germany, cost us US$ 2 billion.

You are right that it is up to any country to place a NATO membership request. So it would have been very wise for NATO not to expand beyond Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary. Taking a future economically and militarily strengthened Russia into account.

The new Eastern States and former Warsaw pact countries should have set up their own defense pact - with "solid" guarantees from NATO and Russia. And not like this Minsk Treaty nonsense - which essentially presented an open opportunity to Russia.

Aside from US global hegemonic interests, the EU is certainly not without blame. It has always been practice not to admit countries to the EU that weren't NATO members - simply in order to assure, protect EU investments in those countries.

 

[Mac-7]

It was the only way to stop Bosnian and Serbs genociding each other.

Which as not soviet aggression and by your standard not NATOs responsibilty

 

[Kruska]

Do tell what international law prevents a country from using another country's airspace with consent. All we needed was consent from a fellow NATO country.

If one provides assistance to a country that is involved in an illegal war - the other would also be guilty in regards to assisting an illegal war and even assisting in war-crimes.

It's like you holding the ladder of a thief, breaking into a house.

 

[Mac-7]

I believe that Europe will start to liberate itself from US control - thus also increasing their own nuke potential.

That’ll be the day

I predict that NATO without the US will be a joke

Particularly if the threat involves islam which is steadily taking over european capitals

Or communist china

 

[toomuchtime_]

If one provides assistance to a country that is involved in an illegal war - the other would also be guilty in regards to assisting an illegal war and even assisting in war-crimes.

It's like you holding the ladder of a thief, breaking into a house.

It's like you running away from the question that was asked: What law did the US break to make the war illegal?

 

[Kruska]

You're rather fond of that "TACO" nonsense, aren't you? Maybe you should try to stay current and up to date. Everyone but you has already shifted their narrative from calling Trump a coward and chanting “TACO."

Now they're calling him a madman who has to be stopped at all costs, with no acknowledgement at all that they’ve done a complete 180. There is no more "TACO", just an empty taco shell. No filling, no meat, no lettuce, and no tomatoes. Empty and hollow, just like your souls.

In other words, your "TACO" is now a taco shell with nothing in it. Basically the culinary equivalent of a sad, lonely tortilla that's given up on life. I'd call it a "taco nothing"... or more poetically, a "tacant" (taco + vacant). A shell that knows it was meant for greatness, but sets on the plate, empty and disappointed. Much like its cousin the nothingburger, who lacked substance and went straight to an existential crisis.

Though his latest "tantrums" indicate a "madman" - I still believe that he is simply and only a narcissistic money greedy prick that gives a shit about the USA, and is solely and only interested in enriching himself and his gang. His main instrument is playing the DowJones - and once that one offers opportunity to make big bucks he either chickens out or comes up with some new idea to create a new DowJones crisis. If you believe in the future of Oil&Gas well that's your believe, certainly not mine.

Simply acting upon "open borders", gender and equality shit, is not enough for me. I expect far more from a President - and I also couldn't care less about his empty promises and absurd claims.

Hmm... why am I even replying to a MAGA dolt? - must be my inherent good nature.

 

[Kruska]

1144 out of 3400 combat deaths is more than token

I believe so

The majority - almost half - of the fallen NATO warriors were Brits

So? still Europeans doing your war in Afghanistan. The Brits were combat proven at the time - others and Germany weren't - so the US decided to send the Brits to the grinder and in view of their military tradition, they happily went along.

So it never hurts to check the record before making brash or bold statements

Huh?? you mean you are going to check the facts next time before you post?

 

[Kruska]

Which as not soviet aggression and by your standard not NATOs responsibilty

Bosnia - Serbia was a UN mandated mission - Not NATO

Serbia/Kosovo 1999 was a NATO mission - and against international law.

 

[Kruska]

That’ll be the day

Not too far away at present.

I predict that NATO without the US will be a joke

I don't have reasons to believe that e.g. France or Britain would lack US standards nor capabilities. The rest will finally have to meet those capabilities.

Particularly if the threat involves islam which is steadily taking over european capitals

Huh... what does a European NATO - have to do with Muslims living in Europe?? your Islamophobia is getting out of hand.

Or communist china

They don't and haven't militarily threatened anyone in the past 46 years, and they ain't communist.