US Senate Votes To Ban Torture

[rightwinger]

What difference should it make if those techniques are not considered torture by our country?

Shouldn't US citizens be subject to them?

if you belong to an organization that goes outside the rules of war, you should be stripped of US citizenship and left to the dogs.

That is the point

Who gets to decide what an "unlawful combatant" is?

We never gave them a trial, never let them see the evidence against them or face their accusor. We just captured them, hauled them to some remote outpost and began torturing them

What stops another nation from doing to our citizens what we have done to others?

They scoop up a US citizen, torture them until they confess to being "unlawful combatants" and then are as justified in using torture as we claim to be

We didn't "torture" all of them we interrogated those who may have had more information.

So you have no problem if those same techniques were used against yourself or your loved ones if they were arrested abroad?

You don't arrest unlawful combatants. Arrest implies custody by whatever judicial system is in the jurisdiction. Considering we don't interrogate tourists here, I would expect the same when travelling.

Why should you care?

You are travelling abroad and get picked up on bogus charges. You get declared to be an "unlawful combatant" and are tortured until you confess to being one

Why should the US try to protect you? That is the standard we have set

Torture has a Golden Rule: Treat others as you expect your own people to be treated

 

[martybegan]

if you belong to an organization that goes outside the rules of war, you should be stripped of US citizenship and left to the dogs.

That is the point

Who gets to decide what an "unlawful combatant" is?

We never gave them a trial, never let them see the evidence against them or face their accusor. We just captured them, hauled them to some remote outpost and began torturing them

What stops another nation from doing to our citizens what we have done to others?

They scoop up a US citizen, torture them until they confess to being "unlawful combatants" and then are as justified in using torture as we claim to be

We didn't "torture" all of them we interrogated those who may have had more information.

So you have no problem if those same techniques were used against yourself or your loved ones if they were arrested abroad?

You don't arrest unlawful combatants. Arrest implies custody by whatever judicial system is in the jurisdiction. Considering we don't interrogate tourists here, I would expect the same when travelling.

Why should you care?

You are travelling abroad and get picked up on bogus charges. You get declared to be an "unlawful combatant" and are tortured until you confess to being one

Why should the US try to protect you? That is the standard we have set

Torture has a Golden Rule: Treat others as you expect your own people to be treated

So we have randomly picked up people on the streets of NYC and called them unlawful combatants?

 

[rightwinger]

That is the point

Who gets to decide what an "unlawful combatant" is?

We never gave them a trial, never let them see the evidence against them or face their accusor. We just captured them, hauled them to some remote outpost and began torturing them

What stops another nation from doing to our citizens what we have done to others?

They scoop up a US citizen, torture them until they confess to being "unlawful combatants" and then are as justified in using torture as we claim to be

We didn't "torture" all of them we interrogated those who may have had more information.

So you have no problem if those same techniques were used against yourself or your loved ones if they were arrested abroad?

You don't arrest unlawful combatants. Arrest implies custody by whatever judicial system is in the jurisdiction. Considering we don't interrogate tourists here, I would expect the same when travelling.

Why should you care?

You are travelling abroad and get picked up on bogus charges. You get declared to be an "unlawful combatant" and are tortured until you confess to being one

Why should the US try to protect you? That is the standard we have set

Torture has a Golden Rule: Treat others as you expect your own people to be treated

So we have randomly picked up people on the streets of NYC and called them unlawful combatants?

Wasn't NYC but we still did it

Why should you or your loved ones be entitled to any better protections?

Its not torture when WE do it?

 

[martybegan]

We didn't "torture" all of them we interrogated those who may have had more information.

So you have no problem if those same techniques were used against yourself or your loved ones if they were arrested abroad?

You don't arrest unlawful combatants. Arrest implies custody by whatever judicial system is in the jurisdiction. Considering we don't interrogate tourists here, I would expect the same when travelling.

Why should you care?

You are travelling abroad and get picked up on bogus charges. You get declared to be an "unlawful combatant" and are tortured until you confess to being one

Why should the US try to protect you? That is the standard we have set

Torture has a Golden Rule: Treat others as you expect your own people to be treated

So we have randomly picked up people on the streets of NYC and called them unlawful combatants?

Wasn't NYC but we still did it

Why should you or your loved ones be entitled to any better protections?

Its not torture when WE do it?

Where?

 

[rightwinger]

So you have no problem if those same techniques were used against yourself or your loved ones if they were arrested abroad?

You don't arrest unlawful combatants. Arrest implies custody by whatever judicial system is in the jurisdiction. Considering we don't interrogate tourists here, I would expect the same when travelling.

Why should you care?

You are travelling abroad and get picked up on bogus charges. You get declared to be an "unlawful combatant" and are tortured until you confess to being one

Why should the US try to protect you? That is the standard we have set

Torture has a Golden Rule: Treat others as you expect your own people to be treated

So we have randomly picked up people on the streets of NYC and called them unlawful combatants?

Wasn't NYC but we still did it

Why should you or your loved ones be entitled to any better protections?

Its not torture when WE do it?

Where?

Around the globe

 

[martybegan]

You don't arrest unlawful combatants. Arrest implies custody by whatever judicial system is in the jurisdiction. Considering we don't interrogate tourists here, I would expect the same when travelling.

Why should you care?

You are travelling abroad and get picked up on bogus charges. You get declared to be an "unlawful combatant" and are tortured until you confess to being one

Why should the US try to protect you? That is the standard we have set

Torture has a Golden Rule: Treat others as you expect your own people to be treated

So we have randomly picked up people on the streets of NYC and called them unlawful combatants?

Wasn't NYC but we still did it

Why should you or your loved ones be entitled to any better protections?

Its not torture when WE do it?

Where?

Around the globe

Your example was me or a relative of mine going to Europe and being snatched as an unlawful combatant off the streets. You point out that fair is fair. I asked if the US has done it to foreign nationals on US soil here on tourist Visa, and you have not replied.

Your example is invalid. Try again.

And LA is now a crater. I'm glad your morals are still intact.

 

[SillyWabbit]

Cool but I suspect those methods will continue, and now they'll just make extra sure that we don't hear about it.

I would not be so sure about that. No interrogator is going to risk going to prison for violating a clear cut law against torture.

No real interrogator is worried about going to prison for anything. All this does is push more interrogations out of sight. It's a feel good maneuver so politicians can say they're doing something.

 

[g5000]

I wonder what kind of people would want to torture another person. I mean, if my child was kidnapped and I needed to find out where he was or something, then I could almost understand torture, but to torture a person that you don't even know just to get some information? You must be kind of a sick fuck.

Nuclear bomb in LA, the person you have has the location and the shut down code. Bomb goes of in 1 hour.

Proceed.

I've seen that TV show. It sucked. I even started a topic on a forum somewhere begging them to kill Jack Bauer's daughter Kim. She was just too stupid a character to be allowed to live.

So I would proceed to change the channel.

I have always known you retards get your bedwetter scenarios from Jack Bauer. It's obvious.

None of the detainees had information about a nuke that was going to go off in one hour. There is ZERO evidence torture provided any lifesaving information.

And once again, I will point out that you have to be really retarded to believe torture is the only way to interrogate someone.

I can't even call this a nice try, retard.

it's a mental exercise in absolutes, one you have obviously failed. and your lashing out shows you don't have a real answer to it, or you are too cowardly to say "LA can burn as long as I have my principles"

You want to justify torture based on a TV show that has no connection to reality! There is no single instance of the torture that was committed in the real world which could possibly be justified by your fake Saturday morning cartoon scenarios.

 

[bendog]

I cannot believe one of my senators voted with the majority. And, I'm shocked that it was the one who won't retire when, or before, his current term is up. Seriously, I'm really surprised. Happy, but surprised.

 

[g5000]

The slippery slope argument is a tricky one to use. Most of the time, it is used fallaciously. For example, "If we allow gays to marry, the next thing you know mothers will be able to marry their dogs!"

But there are times when the slippery slope argument is legitimate. And in this topic, we have a perfect example of the existence of an actual slippery slope.

We have a maniac justifying the torture of innocent detainees with the "one hour until a nuke blows up LA" defense.

We see in the real world how that mindset was a slippery slope which led to torturing innocent detainees who had no intel of any value whatsoever.

Thus, the fantasy Nuke LA Justification is an entirely bogus argument.

A fallacy that even Ted Cruz himself understands.

 

[rightwinger]

Why should you care?

You are travelling abroad and get picked up on bogus charges. You get declared to be an "unlawful combatant" and are tortured until you confess to being one

Why should the US try to protect you? That is the standard we have set

Torture has a Golden Rule: Treat others as you expect your own people to be treated

So we have randomly picked up people on the streets of NYC and called them unlawful combatants?

Wasn't NYC but we still did it

Why should you or your loved ones be entitled to any better protections?

Its not torture when WE do it?

Where?

Around the globe

Your example was me or a relative of mine going to Europe and being snatched as an unlawful combatant off the streets. You point out that fair is fair. I asked if the US has done it to foreign nationals on US soil here on tourist Visa, and you have not replied.

Your example is invalid. Try again.

And LA is now a crater. I'm glad your morals are still intact.

Far from it

Torture is still torture

You have yet to acknowledge if it is acceptable to torture US citizens to the same degree we use it

Are you afraid?

 

[Pogo]

Nope. Just a realist.

You must be a gutless wonder.

So if you don't want to torture or don't get enjoyment out of it, a person is gutless? Is this how you really feel? If so, seek help.

People making critically wounded points like Claudette does reveal the real reason we, or anybody, engages in torture -- sadism. The emotional feedback of "revenge". It absolutely DRIPS off her posts with all the references to "shitbags". She's not interested in results or tactics or efficacies or saving American lives and image -- she just wants the emotional wank of sadism. It's like porn to that element.

Sadly it's how they roll in the shallow end of the gene puddle.

Excuse me while I stand over here and LMAO.

No one would enjoy real torture. Too much blood and screaming.

Oh and they are shitbags. Killers par excellance who would dearly love to kill you me and anyone else they could get their hands on. Oh and they really would torture you.

QED. It DRIPS off the page.

Asshole DRIPS off this page.

Thanks for the heads-up, but I have Unkotare on Ignore.

(Who doesn't...)

 

[martybegan]

So we have randomly picked up people on the streets of NYC and called them unlawful combatants?

Wasn't NYC but we still did it

Why should you or your loved ones be entitled to any better protections?

Its not torture when WE do it?

Where?

Around the globe

Your example was me or a relative of mine going to Europe and being snatched as an unlawful combatant off the streets. You point out that fair is fair. I asked if the US has done it to foreign nationals on US soil here on tourist Visa, and you have not replied.

Your example is invalid. Try again.

And LA is now a crater. I'm glad your morals are still intact.

Far from it

Torture is still torture

You have yet to acknowledge if it is acceptable to torture US citizens to the same degree we use it

Are you afraid?

I have already said if a US citizen becomes an unlawful combatant we strip them of citizenship and leave them to the wolves. That should be sufficient for you.

 

[rightwinger]

Wasn't NYC but we still did it

Why should you or your loved ones be entitled to any better protections?

Its not torture when WE do it?

Where?

Around the globe

Your example was me or a relative of mine going to Europe and being snatched as an unlawful combatant off the streets. You point out that fair is fair. I asked if the US has done it to foreign nationals on US soil here on tourist Visa, and you have not replied.

Your example is invalid. Try again.

And LA is now a crater. I'm glad your morals are still intact.

Far from it

Torture is still torture

You have yet to acknowledge if it is acceptable to torture US citizens to the same degree we use it

Are you afraid?

I have already said if a US citizen becomes an unlawful combatant we strip them of citizenship and leave them to the wolves. That should be sufficient for you.

I didn't say they were unlawful combatants. I said they were labeled that in the country where they were captured and tortured until they confessed

As an advocate of the torture of "unlawful combatants" is that treatment of Americans acceptable?

 

[martybegan]

Where?

Around the globe

Your example was me or a relative of mine going to Europe and being snatched as an unlawful combatant off the streets. You point out that fair is fair. I asked if the US has done it to foreign nationals on US soil here on tourist Visa, and you have not replied.

Your example is invalid. Try again.

And LA is now a crater. I'm glad your morals are still intact.

Far from it

Torture is still torture

You have yet to acknowledge if it is acceptable to torture US citizens to the same degree we use it

Are you afraid?

I have already said if a US citizen becomes an unlawful combatant we strip them of citizenship and leave them to the wolves. That should be sufficient for you.

I didn't say they were unlawful combatants. I said they were labeled that in the country where they were captured and tortured until they confessed

As an advocate of the torture of "unlawful combatants" is that treatment of Americans acceptable?

If they are not unlawful combatants? No, we bomb said country into the stone age.

 

[rightwinger]

Around the globe

Your example was me or a relative of mine going to Europe and being snatched as an unlawful combatant off the streets. You point out that fair is fair. I asked if the US has done it to foreign nationals on US soil here on tourist Visa, and you have not replied.

Your example is invalid. Try again.

And LA is now a crater. I'm glad your morals are still intact.

Far from it

Torture is still torture

You have yet to acknowledge if it is acceptable to torture US citizens to the same degree we use it

Are you afraid?

I have already said if a US citizen becomes an unlawful combatant we strip them of citizenship and leave them to the wolves. That should be sufficient for you.

I didn't say they were unlawful combatants. I said they were labeled that in the country where they were captured and tortured until they confessed

As an advocate of the torture of "unlawful combatants" is that treatment of Americans acceptable?

If they are not unlawful combatants? No, we bomb said country into the stone age.

Really? On what basis?

They are using the same "enhanced interrogation" techniques that we openly use

 

[martybegan]

Your example was me or a relative of mine going to Europe and being snatched as an unlawful combatant off the streets. You point out that fair is fair. I asked if the US has done it to foreign nationals on US soil here on tourist Visa, and you have not replied.

Your example is invalid. Try again.

And LA is now a crater. I'm glad your morals are still intact.

Far from it

Torture is still torture

You have yet to acknowledge if it is acceptable to torture US citizens to the same degree we use it

Are you afraid?

I have already said if a US citizen becomes an unlawful combatant we strip them of citizenship and leave them to the wolves. That should be sufficient for you.

I didn't say they were unlawful combatants. I said they were labeled that in the country where they were captured and tortured until they confessed

As an advocate of the torture of "unlawful combatants" is that treatment of Americans acceptable?

If they are not unlawful combatants? No, we bomb said country into the stone age.

Really? On what basis?

They are using the same "enhanced interrogation" techniques that we openly use

On the basis of "America, Fuck Yeah."

We only use them on unlawful combatants.

 

[rightwinger]

Far from it

Torture is still torture

You have yet to acknowledge if it is acceptable to torture US citizens to the same degree we use it

Are you afraid?

I have already said if a US citizen becomes an unlawful combatant we strip them of citizenship and leave them to the wolves. That should be sufficient for you.

I didn't say they were unlawful combatants. I said they were labeled that in the country where they were captured and tortured until they confessed

As an advocate of the torture of "unlawful combatants" is that treatment of Americans acceptable?

If they are not unlawful combatants? No, we bomb said country into the stone age.

Really? On what basis?

They are using the same "enhanced interrogation" techniques that we openly use

On the basis of "America, Fuck Yeah."

We only use them on unlawful combatants.

Why should basic human rights be forfeited for unlawful combatants?

We provide Constitutional protections of criminals who do worse crimes than "unlawful combatants" .....yet we don't torture criminals

 

[ChrisL]

Far from it

Torture is still torture

You have yet to acknowledge if it is acceptable to torture US citizens to the same degree we use it

Are you afraid?

I have already said if a US citizen becomes an unlawful combatant we strip them of citizenship and leave them to the wolves. That should be sufficient for you.

I didn't say they were unlawful combatants. I said they were labeled that in the country where they were captured and tortured until they confessed

As an advocate of the torture of "unlawful combatants" is that treatment of Americans acceptable?

If they are not unlawful combatants? No, we bomb said country into the stone age.

Really? On what basis?

They are using the same "enhanced interrogation" techniques that we openly use

On the basis of "America, Fuck Yeah."

We only use them on unlawful combatants.

But you do know that a lot of information obtained through torture methods is not reliable? Because people will make things up to make the torture stop. When a person is stressed and in distress, they are not even thinking clearly themselves. Torture is extremely barbaric and personally, I don't trust the government "officials." You want to give the Obama administration permission to torture people that they believe may (or may not) have information?

 

[martybegan]

I have already said if a US citizen becomes an unlawful combatant we strip them of citizenship and leave them to the wolves. That should be sufficient for you.

I didn't say they were unlawful combatants. I said they were labeled that in the country where they were captured and tortured until they confessed

As an advocate of the torture of "unlawful combatants" is that treatment of Americans acceptable?

If they are not unlawful combatants? No, we bomb said country into the stone age.

Really? On what basis?

They are using the same "enhanced interrogation" techniques that we openly use

On the basis of "America, Fuck Yeah."

We only use them on unlawful combatants.

But you do know that a lot of information obtained through torture methods is not reliable? Because people will make things up to make the torture stop. When a person is stressed and in distress, they are not even thinking clearly themselves. Torture is extremely barbaric and personally, I don't trust the government "officials." You want to give the Obama administration permission to torture people that they believe may (or may not) have information?

Define torture. to some drugging them up until they don't know up from down is torture. Denying them the meal they like is torture, sleep deprivation is torture.

I agree pulling nails and burning and the like are usually ineffective means of getting information, but long term gradual breaking is not.