US is not ready for Medicare for all

[bendog]

US is not ready for Medicare for all.
Democrats, do not over play your hand when you are running against the worst President in our history.
US voters favor a hybrid system that includes a government that anyone can buy into along with a private option.
Do not let ideaology override practicality.

We will likely end up with it no matter who wins in 2020.

Trump has always been a supporter of universal healthcare.

If the idea comes from him 3/4 of his followers will think it is the greatest idea ever and the rest he will not care about as he will not have another election to win.

G5000 and I disagreed over this, but back before Obamacare when the debate over HC was going on, before the Tea Party primaried any goper who addressed the lack of coverage for millions, I thought the best compromise was just to claw back all the tax cuts going to private biz, and use that and the Obamacare taxes on docs and hospitals, and use the revenue to "give" every citizen a tax credit that would cover wellness. And to get the tax credit, every citizen would have to show they bought some private coverage for simple stuff like broken bones and blown knees. And for those of us who got chronic serious illnesses or injuries, like brain damage or cancer, they'd get Medicaid, which is where the really really sick folks ended up anyway.

At least we would have some private choice. But it's gonna end up Medicare for All sooner or later. Hahvahd Law Professor Big Govt Warren just wants it sooner, so she can tell us all what to do.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. There's plenty of choice in Medicare Advantage plans, plenty of choice in Medicare Supplement plans. That's in terms of various plans offered by insurers, in terms of providers, in terms of network, in terms of levels of coverage, in terms of available formularies, and in terms of specific services.

I know that no amount of proof or information outside your closed universe is allowed, but just so I know I tried, here's a chance to educate yourself:

No Mac, there are NOT plenty of choice in Medicare/Medicare Advantage plans.

It all depends on what state one lives in, even boils down to what county a person lives in.

Medicare, as it stands now, does not treat the consumer, you and I, equally.

Don't let the curent rash of commercials confuse you.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?

What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

What will happen when the Government decides it needs to triple a person's premiums?

What are you talking about? Medicare treats all the same. I am on Medicare. It works well. It is not perfect but no private plan is, either. In a private market place, Insurance companies would have to charge those 65 and over, staggering high rates, because of the increased risk level.
It is like car insurance company figuring a rate for someone who had 10 accidents and 10 tickets.

 

[Mac1958]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. There's plenty of choice in Medicare Advantage plans, plenty of choice in Medicare Supplement plans. That's in terms of various plans offered by insurers, in terms of providers, in terms of network, in terms of levels of coverage, in terms of available formularies, and in terms of specific services.

I know that no amount of proof or information outside your closed universe is allowed, but just so I know I tried, here's a chance to educate yourself:

No Mac, there are NOT plenty of choice in Medicare/Medicare Advantage plans.

It all depends on what state one lives in, even boils down to what county a person lives in.

Medicare, as it stands now, does not treat the consumer, you and I, equally.

Don't let the curent rash of commercials confuse you.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?

What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

What will happen when the Government decides it needs to triple a person's premiums?

What are you talking about? Welfare treats all the same. I am on Medicare. It works well. It is not perfect but no private plan is, either. In a private market place, Insurance companies would have to charge those 65 and over, staggering high rates, because of the increased risk level.
It is like car insurance company figuring a rate for someone who had 10 accidents and 10 tickets.

The Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage system has worked very well and is very popular. It includes a strong free market competition/innovation component and provides choice. The system could easily be scaled up for all.

Most Americans don't really know how the system works, although they think they do.
.

 

[bendog]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. There's plenty of choice in Medicare Advantage plans, plenty of choice in Medicare Supplement plans. That's in terms of various plans offered by insurers, in terms of providers, in terms of network, in terms of levels of coverage, in terms of available formularies, and in terms of specific services.

I know that no amount of proof or information outside your closed universe is allowed, but just so I know I tried, here's a chance to educate yourself:

No Mac, there are NOT plenty of choice in Medicare/Medicare Advantage plans.

It all depends on what state one lives in, even boils down to what county a person lives in.

Medicare, as it stands now, does not treat the consumer, you and I, equally.

Don't let the curent rash of commercials confuse you.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?

What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

What will happen when the Government decides it needs to triple a person's premiums?

What are you talking about? Welfare treats all the same. I am on Medicare. It works well. It is not perfect but no private plan is, either. In a private market place, Insurance companies would have to charge those 65 and over, staggering high rates, because of the increased risk level.
It is like car insurance company figuring a rate for someone who had 10 accidents and 10 tickets.

The Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage system has worked very well and is very popular. It includes a strong free market competition/innovation component and provides choice. The system could easily be scaled up for all.

Most Americans don't really know how the system works, although they think they do.
.

I believe the free market alternatives are not as cost effective as regular old Medicare, and Professor Warren will assimilate them into the borg to cover us all with government insurance.

 

[Mac1958]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. There's plenty of choice in Medicare Advantage plans, plenty of choice in Medicare Supplement plans. That's in terms of various plans offered by insurers, in terms of providers, in terms of network, in terms of levels of coverage, in terms of available formularies, and in terms of specific services.

I know that no amount of proof or information outside your closed universe is allowed, but just so I know I tried, here's a chance to educate yourself:

No Mac, there are NOT plenty of choice in Medicare/Medicare Advantage plans.

It all depends on what state one lives in, even boils down to what county a person lives in.

Medicare, as it stands now, does not treat the consumer, you and I, equally.

Don't let the curent rash of commercials confuse you.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?

What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

What will happen when the Government decides it needs to triple a person's premiums?

What are you talking about? Welfare treats all the same. I am on Medicare. It works well. It is not perfect but no private plan is, either. In a private market place, Insurance companies would have to charge those 65 and over, staggering high rates, because of the increased risk level.
It is like car insurance company figuring a rate for someone who had 10 accidents and 10 tickets.

The Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage system has worked very well and is very popular. It includes a strong free market competition/innovation component and provides choice. The system could easily be scaled up for all.

Most Americans don't really know how the system works, although they think they do.
.

I believe the free market alternatives are not as cost effective as regular old Medicare, and Professor Warren will assimilate them into the borg to cover us all with government insurance.

Well, that's the danger. Medicare only covers 80% of costs, and still has co-insurance and unlimited out of pocket expenses. So it's not Single Payer. If they get rid of our current overall system and go to Single Payer, that would be very bad news.
.

 

[bendog]

I'm not voting for Trump, but my wife should get her Medicare card in the mail soon, and the instructions on how to decline Part B to keep her employer sponsored HC as we both work till death (-: are supposed to be with the card. LOL

 

[dblack]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. There's plenty of choice in Medicare Advantage plans, plenty of choice in Medicare Supplement plans. That's in terms of various plans offered by insurers, in terms of providers, in terms of network, in terms of levels of coverage, in terms of available formularies, and in terms of specific services.

I know that no amount of proof or information outside your closed universe is allowed, but just so I know I tried, here's a chance to educate yourself:

No Mac, there are NOT plenty of choice in Medicare/Medicare Advantage plans.

It all depends on what state one lives in, even boils down to what county a person lives in.

Medicare, as it stands now, does not treat the consumer, you and I, equally.

Don't let the curent rash of commercials confuse you.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?

What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

What will happen when the Government decides it needs to triple a person's premiums?

What are you talking about? Welfare treats all the same. I am on Medicare. It works well. It is not perfect but no private plan is, either. In a private market place, Insurance companies would have to charge those 65 and over, staggering high rates, because of the increased risk level.
It is like car insurance company figuring a rate for someone who had 10 accidents and 10 tickets.

The Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage system has worked very well and is very popular. It includes a strong free market competition/innovation component and provides choice. The system could easily be scaled up for all.

Most Americans don't really know how the system works, although they think they do.
.

Nominal "choice" and "competition" among state chosen vendors is NOT a free market. It is the opposite. It's a captive market with consumers as livestock.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. There's plenty of choice in Medicare Advantage plans, plenty of choice in Medicare Supplement plans. That's in terms of various plans offered by insurers, in terms of providers, in terms of network, in terms of levels of coverage, in terms of available formularies, and in terms of specific services.

I know that no amount of proof or information outside your closed universe is allowed, but just so I know I tried, here's a chance to educate yourself:

No Mac, there are NOT plenty of choice in Medicare/Medicare Advantage plans.

It all depends on what state one lives in, even boils down to what county a person lives in.

Medicare, as it stands now, does not treat the consumer, you and I, equally.

Don't let the curent rash of commercials confuse you.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?

What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

What will happen when the Government decides it needs to triple a person's premiums?

What are you talking about? Welfare treats all the same. I am on Medicare. It works well. It is not perfect but no private plan is, either. In a private market place, Insurance companies would have to charge those 65 and over, staggering high rates, because of the increased risk level.
It is like car insurance company figuring a rate for someone who had 10 accidents and 10 tickets.

The Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage system has worked very well and is very popular. It includes a strong free market competition/innovation component and provides choice. The system could easily be scaled up for all.

Most Americans don't really know how the system works, although they think they do.
.

I believe the free market alternatives are not as cost effective as regular old Medicare, and Professor Warren will assimilate them into the borg to cover us all with government insurance.

Well, that's the danger. Medicare only covers 80% of costs, and still has co-insurance and unlimited out of pocket expenses. So it's not Single Payer. If they get rid of our current overall system and go to Single Payer, that would be very bad news.
.

I am on Medicare with supplemental and it is good insurance.
My Father was on Medicare with supplemental and the last several weeks of his life was in the ICU and other specialty areas within the hospital.
I was shocked at how well the Medicare and Supplemental covered. I expected to have to pay substantially more.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. There's plenty of choice in Medicare Advantage plans, plenty of choice in Medicare Supplement plans. That's in terms of various plans offered by insurers, in terms of providers, in terms of network, in terms of levels of coverage, in terms of available formularies, and in terms of specific services.

I know that no amount of proof or information outside your closed universe is allowed, but just so I know I tried, here's a chance to educate yourself:

No Mac, there are NOT plenty of choice in Medicare/Medicare Advantage plans.

It all depends on what state one lives in, even boils down to what county a person lives in.

Medicare, as it stands now, does not treat the consumer, you and I, equally.

Don't let the curent rash of commercials confuse you.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?

What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

What will happen when the Government decides it needs to triple a person's premiums?

What are you talking about? Welfare treats all the same. I am on Medicare. It works well. It is not perfect but no private plan is, either. In a private market place, Insurance companies would have to charge those 65 and over, staggering high rates, because of the increased risk level.
It is like car insurance company figuring a rate for someone who had 10 accidents and 10 tickets.

The Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage system has worked very well and is very popular. It includes a strong free market competition/innovation component and provides choice. The system could easily be scaled up for all.

Most Americans don't really know how the system works, although they think they do.
.

Nominal "choice" and "competition" among state chosen vendors is NOT a free market. It is the opposite. It's a captive market with consumers as livestock.

The free market does not work well for healthcare insurance. Companies in the free market have goals of maximizing profits and minimizing risk. In applying those principles to healthcare insurance, many people are left without coverage or no coverage at all.
Without a socialized insurance pool for those over 65, Medicare, private insurance would have to charge substantially higher rates or be out of business.
I believe in personal accountability. If you are a lousy driver and do not change your ways, you do not deserve insurance,. If you over use your home owners insurance, you deserve higher rates or to be cut off.
A majority of health issues is based on circumstances you cannot control. Getting older puts you in the highest risk category. You cannot apply free market standards and cut old people off or raise their rates to equal the increased risk.

 

[Mac1958]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. There's plenty of choice in Medicare Advantage plans, plenty of choice in Medicare Supplement plans. That's in terms of various plans offered by insurers, in terms of providers, in terms of network, in terms of levels of coverage, in terms of available formularies, and in terms of specific services.

I know that no amount of proof or information outside your closed universe is allowed, but just so I know I tried, here's a chance to educate yourself:

No Mac, there are NOT plenty of choice in Medicare/Medicare Advantage plans.

It all depends on what state one lives in, even boils down to what county a person lives in.

Medicare, as it stands now, does not treat the consumer, you and I, equally.

Don't let the curent rash of commercials confuse you.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?

What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

What will happen when the Government decides it needs to triple a person's premiums?

What are you talking about? Welfare treats all the same. I am on Medicare. It works well. It is not perfect but no private plan is, either. In a private market place, Insurance companies would have to charge those 65 and over, staggering high rates, because of the increased risk level.
It is like car insurance company figuring a rate for someone who had 10 accidents and 10 tickets.

The Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage system has worked very well and is very popular. It includes a strong free market competition/innovation component and provides choice. The system could easily be scaled up for all.

Most Americans don't really know how the system works, although they think they do.
.

Nominal "choice" and "competition" among state chosen vendors is NOT a free market. It is the opposite. It's a captive market with consumers as livestock.

The free market does not work well for healthcare insurance. Companies in the free market have goals of maximizing profits and minimizing risk. In applying those principles to healthcare insurance, many people are left without coverage or no coverage at all.
Without a socialized insurance pool for those over 65, Medicare, private insurance would have to charge substantially higher rates or be out of business.
I believe in personal accountability. If you are a lousy driver and do not change your ways, you do not deserve insurance,. If you over use your home owners insurance, you deserve higher rates or to be cut off.
A majority of health issues is based on circumstances you cannot control. Getting older puts you in the highest risk category. You cannot apply free market standards and cut old people off or raise their rates to equal the increased risk.

We won't be going back to you're-on-your-own health care. Not gonna happen.

And, I don't see Single Payer either, since the numbers clearly don't work.

We may see what I'm after, an expansion of the Medicare Advantage/Medicare Supplement system with some tweaks.

That's after all the stupid partisan slap-fighting, of course.
.

 

[dblack]

The free market does not work well for healthcare insurance.

I'd go with the converse. Health insurance, as it currently operates*, doesn't work well in a free market. It's not a sustainable business model. It's a proven failure that distorts the underlying market and promotes moral hazard. The sooner we get away from it the better.

But in general, freedom "works" fine. It might not provide you with everything you want, but it's not supposed to.

*I'm referring to employer-provided "group" insurance. Normal insurance, even health insurance, works fine.

 

[Andylusion]

US is not ready for Medicare for all.
Democrats, do not over play your hand when you are running against the worst President in our history.
US voters favor a hybrid system that includes a government that anyone can buy into along with a private option.
Do not let ideaology override practicality.

Are you ready for a 20% tax increase to pay for Medicare for all?

Well yes. I mean this should be obvious.

Which is worse.... losing a massive part of your income, or paying a $300 a month premium?

Obviously paying the premiums is much much cheaper. By far more cheaper.

I have no problem paying a small premium, than losing a massive chunk of my income.

Let's even take Bernie Sanders lies... which is 6% increase in taxes. 6% of the median income of $50,000, is $3,000.

I have never paid $3,000 in health insurance premiums, in my entire life. In fact, barely half that.

Even for family coverage, that might sound like a good deal, until you realize that 6% in taxes would cover the wife's income too, even though in current system most families only have one person paying the premium, not both.

The absolute most expensive health insurance plan we have at my company, is not $300 a month.

But the real kicker, is that Bernie Sanders is lying. Even some of the pro-single-payer advocacy groups in the US, do not suggest we could pay for socialized health care with only 6%. The lowest costing plan I've seen, suggested a 12% income tax across the board.

And I even doubt that, because when you look at Europe, most of those countries with the most socialized system, often have tax rates of almost 50% of their income.

Do you really think that tax rates confiscating $20,000 of a middle class income, is going to be better than paying the premiums and co-pays?

Nothing in the world of math, supports that theory. Only living in a mythology that "the rich will pay for it", does that work. And again, if "the rich will pay for it" worked... then why are middle and lower class people in Europe losing half their income in taxes? Why are not the rich paying for it?

And let us even for the moment, live in the pretend world where the costs actually break even.... Gov care sucks dude. Have you never had to deal with gov-care? I have dealt with gov care numerous times. It's terrible. One government clinic I went to, the doctor was in a baseball cap, and a T-shirt. The staff was entirely rude. Not just unhelpful.... flat out rude to everyone. Because what can the patient do? Nothing. They were not a customer. it's not like the patient can say "I'll take my money elsewhere" because they were paid by the government. They don't give a crap what you do.

Torn up room. Broken chairs. Leaking ceiling with mold on it. An actual CRT TV in the back. A CRT tv these days is like finding a model T. Who still uses bulky old CRT TVs? Well apparently government run health care clinics do.

A Line of people filled the entire room, and through the entire 3 hours I had to be in this disgusting rude gov-car-ap clinic.... not a single patient was seen. Not even one. Two people left. Not a single person was called in to see a nurse or doctor.

Now think about that. In a capitalist pay-for-service health clinic, patients leaving is bad. You are losing money when patients walk out the door. But this was gov-care. They get paid whether you live or die, stay or leave.

My brother in law, came back from Iraq. He says he'll never wait for the VA to give him care ever again. Terrible care.

So yeah, I would much rather pay the premiums and the co-pays. When I go to my doctor, that I pay for.... I am treated like a customer. Given great service. Treated well, good care, and ultimately made better because of it.

 

[Andylusion]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. There's plenty of choice in Medicare Advantage plans, plenty of choice in Medicare Supplement plans. That's in terms of various plans offered by insurers, in terms of providers, in terms of network, in terms of levels of coverage, in terms of available formularies, and in terms of specific services.

I know that no amount of proof or information outside your closed universe is allowed, but just so I know I tried, here's a chance to educate yourself:

No Mac, there are NOT plenty of choice in Medicare/Medicare Advantage plans.

It all depends on what state one lives in, even boils down to what county a person lives in.

Medicare, as it stands now, does not treat the consumer, you and I, equally.

Don't let the curent rash of commercials confuse you.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?

What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

What will happen when the Government decides it needs to triple a person's premiums?

What are you talking about? Medicare treats all the same. I am on Medicare. It works well. It is not perfect but no private plan is, either. In a private market place, Insurance companies would have to charge those 65 and over, staggering high rates, because of the increased risk level.
It is like car insurance company figuring a rate for someone who had 10 accidents and 10 tickets.

Which is exactly our point.

You say it works well... but it doesn't work well.
Unfunded Govt. Liabilities -- Our Ticking Time Bomb | RealClearPolitics!

If medicare charged more money for older people... which you are saying it does not... then it would work well, because we would recoup the cost of Medicare, and have a sustainable system.

As things are, Medicare is going to bankrupt the country. That is not how I define "working well".

That's the point the prior poster is making.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?
What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

The reason he asked this, is because at some point in the future, that is the problem we are going to have. Government is going to have make cuts somewhere, because it is absolutely impossible for us to keep paying for this.

 

[ElmerMudd]

I agree

No Mac, there are NOT plenty of choice in Medicare/Medicare Advantage plans.

It all depends on what state one lives in, even boils down to what county a person lives in.

Medicare, as it stands now, does not treat the consumer, you and I, equally.

Don't let the curent rash of commercials confuse you.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?

What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

What will happen when the Government decides it needs to triple a person's premiums?

What are you talking about? Welfare treats all the same. I am on Medicare. It works well. It is not perfect but no private plan is, either. In a private market place, Insurance companies would have to charge those 65 and over, staggering high rates, because of the increased risk level.
It is like car insurance company figuring a rate for someone who had 10 accidents and 10 tickets.

The Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage system has worked very well and is very popular. It includes a strong free market competition/innovation component and provides choice. The system could easily be scaled up for all.

Most Americans don't really know how the system works, although they think they do.
.

Nominal "choice" and "competition" among state chosen vendors is NOT a free market. It is the opposite. It's a captive market with consumers as livestock.

The free market does not work well for healthcare insurance. Companies in the free market have goals of maximizing profits and minimizing risk. In applying those principles to healthcare insurance, many people are left without coverage or no coverage at all.
Without a socialized insurance pool for those over 65, Medicare, private insurance would have to charge substantially higher rates or be out of business.
I believe in personal accountability. If you are a lousy driver and do not change your ways, you do not deserve insurance,. If you over use your home owners insurance, you deserve higher rates or to be cut off.
A majority of health issues is based on circumstances you cannot control. Getting older puts you in the highest risk category. You cannot apply free market standards and cut old people off or raise their rates to equal the increased risk.

We won't be going back to you're-on-your-own health care. Not gonna happen.

And, I don't see Single Payer either, since the numbers clearly don't work.

We may see what I'm after, an expansion of the Medicare Advantage/Medicare Supplement system with some tweaks.

That's after all the stupid partisan slap-fighting, of course.
.

I agree

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. There's plenty of choice in Medicare Advantage plans, plenty of choice in Medicare Supplement plans. That's in terms of various plans offered by insurers, in terms of providers, in terms of network, in terms of levels of coverage, in terms of available formularies, and in terms of specific services.

I know that no amount of proof or information outside your closed universe is allowed, but just so I know I tried, here's a chance to educate yourself:

No Mac, there are NOT plenty of choice in Medicare/Medicare Advantage plans.

It all depends on what state one lives in, even boils down to what county a person lives in.

Medicare, as it stands now, does not treat the consumer, you and I, equally.

Don't let the curent rash of commercials confuse you.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?

What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

What will happen when the Government decides it needs to triple a person's premiums?

What are you talking about? Welfare treats all the same. I am on Medicare. It works well. It is not perfect but no private plan is, either. In a private market place, Insurance companies would have to charge those 65 and over, staggering high rates, because of the increased risk level.
It is like car insurance company figuring a rate for someone who had 10 accidents and 10 tickets.

The Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage system has worked very well and is very popular. It includes a strong free market competition/innovation component and provides choice. The system could easily be scaled up for all.

Most Americans don't really know how the system works, although they think they do.
.

Nominal "choice" and "competition" among state chosen vendors is NOT a free market. It is the opposite. It's a captive market with consumers as livestock.

The free market does not work well for healthcare insurance. Companies in the free market have goals of maximizing profits and minimizing risk. In applying those principles to healthcare insurance, many people are left without coverage or no coverage at all.
Without a socialized insurance pool for those over 65, Medicare, private insurance would have to charge substantially higher rates or be out of business.
I believe in personal accountability. If you are a lousy driver and do not change your ways, you do not deserve insurance,. If you over use your home owners insurance, you deserve higher rates or to be cut off.
A majority of health issues is based on circumstances you cannot control. Getting older puts you in the highest risk category. You cannot apply free market standards and cut old people off or raise their rates to equal the increased risk.

Which is why Medicare should be replaced by a private insured lifelong policy. Like SS and Medicare, you pay into it your entire life, and are promised X amount of benefits. You can collect at age 62, 65, or 67, depending on how we decide to have it.

 

[HenryBHough]

But doesn't everyone want their child to have a British National Health style smile?

 

[ElmerMudd]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. There's plenty of choice in Medicare Advantage plans, plenty of choice in Medicare Supplement plans. That's in terms of various plans offered by insurers, in terms of providers, in terms of network, in terms of levels of coverage, in terms of available formularies, and in terms of specific services.

I know that no amount of proof or information outside your closed universe is allowed, but just so I know I tried, here's a chance to educate yourself:

No Mac, there are NOT plenty of choice in Medicare/Medicare Advantage plans.

It all depends on what state one lives in, even boils down to what county a person lives in.

Medicare, as it stands now, does not treat the consumer, you and I, equally.

Don't let the curent rash of commercials confuse you.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?

What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

What will happen when the Government decides it needs to triple a person's premiums?

What are you talking about? Medicare treats all the same. I am on Medicare. It works well. It is not perfect but no private plan is, either. In a private market place, Insurance companies would have to charge those 65 and over, staggering high rates, because of the increased risk level.
It is like car insurance company figuring a rate for someone who had 10 accidents and 10 tickets.

Which is exactly our point.

You say it works well... but it doesn't work well.
Unfunded Govt. Liabilities -- Our Ticking Time Bomb | RealClearPolitics!

If medicare charged more money for older people... which you are saying it does not... then it would work well, because we would recoup the cost of Medicare, and have a sustainable system.

As things are, Medicare is going to bankrupt the country. That is not how I define "working well".

That's the point the prior poster is making.

What if the Government decides to disregard 'Advantage Plans'?
What will you do if the Government decides it will no longer pay for your long term treatment of xyz?

The reason he asked this, is because at some point in the future, that is the problem we are going to have. Government is going to have make cuts somewhere, because it is absolutely impossible for us to keep paying for this.

I do not think the US is ready for single payer plan but if the current Medicare plan is expanded to include younger people, lower risk individuals, the financials will work out better.
The larger and more diverse a risk pool for any insurance, the better the financials. Medicare for people over 65 is all higher risk individuals. The lower the premiums are because of risk diversity along with a greater possibility of profit or break even.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

US is not ready for Medicare for all.
Democrats, do not over play your hand when you are running against the worst President in our history.
US voters favor a hybrid system that includes a government that anyone can buy into along with a private option.
Do not let ideaology override practicality.

A majority of the ameican people support it, capital is not ready for all of us to have access to healthcare.

A majority of American people would also like their debt erased.

Medicare for all would help, what's the #1 reason for most mortgage foreclosures again?

Stahhp this line of bullshit, please.

The #1 reason behind mortgage foreclosures (which is way 2006-2010 etc ) is due to bad bank loans.

get current with your accusations please.

tia

Most people who become seriously ill cannot work until they get better. Depending on the situation, that could be months or even years. In the meantime, what do you live off of?

So people use their credit cards, take out bank loans as you stated, and then can't pay them off until they get back to work. So they file bankruptcy. But it's mostly due to living expenses than it is medical expenses.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Medicare "works" by coercion, confiscation, and redistribution...All of its "choices" are within the framework of this original centralized State aggression....Marxism lite.

But it is instructive to see your pal, the fake libertarian, carrying the water for statism.

Hell yes Oddscrotum, Medicare is socialism. Let the free market rule.
As you get old it is like buying auto insurance for a car with 300,000 miles on it. Insurance is based on risk. In a free market old people pay thousands a month because they are high risk. In a free market the government does not step in to pay for those without insurance. The government would go broke.
And what about the socialist school system in the US. People without kids pay taxes to pay for schools for children that are not theirs. The hell with that. People with kids pay and figure out schools on their own. And what about fire departments and police? We pay to support through taxes but what if we never have a fire or a problem requiring police. This is all BS, Oddscrotum. I am with you.

A "free market" is where there is no government regulation at all, and companies are free to create abusive monopolies, use extortion, etc.
Insurance is supposed to be just risk pooling, but that can easily be done without anyone extracting over half the money paid in as profits.
Any insurance company that is not nonprofit essentially is an extortion racket.
The whole point of a democratic republic is to organize risk pooling with out the profit motive.
For example, the wealthy are not supposed to get better service from firemen or police than poor people.

Do you really want everything to be on the profit motive, where the children of wealthy are the only ones that get educated or are healthy?

Absolutely not. Most of what I said was tongue in cheek.
My point is so many of those who reject any socialist reforms in our society love it when they collect.

If you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's in your society generally have no objection.

Paul is today's generation including you, and Peter is future generations who have to pay for the debt being built up to pay for your social security and the medicare.

It's been that way for past generations as well. That's why the system is so flawed. It's a Ponzi scheme that will eventually cost some generation greatly and getting little if anything back.

So what kind of good idea is it to expand that failed system to everybody?

 

[HenryBHough]

"Medicare for all" CAN work if the taxes to pay for it are collected by club-wielding thugs backed up by machete armed enforcers who murder those who can't pay. If only to keep them from using the government medical system.

Think of it as an employment plan to get some use out of liberal college indoctronees who can't find any other work.