US and Nato Helped Trigger the Ukraine War.

[g5000]

Indeed, Ukraine has always been off limits to NATO.

There is no rule against Ukraine joining NATO.

 

[bendog]

Yes, Zelenksy's dress was very provocative. He deserved to get raped by Putin. Thank you, comrade.

Yea, if Ukraine had just agreed to lay down all weapons and let Putin run Ukraine, and tell them what markets they could have, and where their border were, Putin would not have been FORCED TO INVADE TO PROTECT UKRAINE FROM NATO

 

[bendog]

There is no rule against Ukraine joining NATO.

but nato waffled "maybe in 20 years or so." We should have been more explicit. Probably there would still not have been any acceptable deal for Putin.

 

[georgephillip]

The Soviet government was directly involved in the Holocaust and the murder of millions of Soviet civilians.

Who do you think you're fooling?

German capitalists were directly responsible for the murder of millions or Soviet Jews, and you would have been leading the cheers if you had been there.

The Holocaust in the Soviet Union — United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

"Although up to 2.7 million Jews died during the Holocaust on occupied Soviet territory, their stories remained relatively unknown until after the fall of the Soviet Union."

 

[Delldude]

I took a couple of Calculus Physics classes from one of them.

Yeah....kinda funny when people go all out on Nazi's, yet don't realize many things we have today are due in one way or another to them.
Not saying I support Nazi's, but people in many ways haven't a clue.

 

[g5000]

They sure can, like when they elected a president who didn’t want to join NATO. So Obama and the usual suspects staged a coup and overthrew that democracy to install the current pro-NATO clown. As well as the Eastern Ukrainians who voted to be independent or a part of Russia. But I guess that doesn’t count as “democracy” .

So now you “own it”.

Boy, you are drinking Putin's piss straight from the tap!

Poor Yanukovych. He refused to observe the will of the people and got his ass kicked to the curb. So Putin invaded Crimea in a snit.

This is who Putin has been planning to install as his puppet should he prevail in his invasion of Ukraine.

Yanukovych probably started packing his bags in February. Wasted effort.

 

[g5000]

Putin is taking out the garbage. The world elitists have basically been using Ukraine for their money laundering scam. Putin and zelensky are pathetic people.

Please explain how former sitcom star Zelensky has been enabling money laundering.

You do realize Trump's campaign manager Paul Manafort was laundering money during the reign of Putin's puppet Yanukovych, right?

 

[g5000]

The west? You mean like Hunter Biden's $83,000 a month from Burisma?
Or like Joe Biden witholding US aid until a prosecutor investigating Burisma was fired? Like that?

The Burisma investigation was for events which took place two years before Hunter joined the company.

That prosecutor, and the current prosecutor, have stated unequivocally that Hunter Biden did no wrongdoing.

 

[g5000]

Stop the zombie lies.

Shokin was NOT investigating Burisma. He was a shakedown artist.

THAT was why the EU and the International Money Fund, and the Obama Admin, and the Ukrainian Parliament wanted him gone.

You got the rest of that right though

Right. Shokin was a shakedown artist. The Ukrainian Parliament voted 380-0 to oust him.

 

[Chaossophie]

Its not about sides in this conflict. Its about all the civilians suffering from the attacks. We, the ukrainian People, want to have Peace with our neighbours.
Apologies for my terrible english...

 

[ElmerMudd]

The U.S. and NATO Helped Trigger the Ukraine War.

Vladimir Putin's decision to launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine is a monstrous act of aggression. But that doesn't mean the West did nothing to provoke it.

www.newsweek.com

Why, of course they did! Is there really any way of denying that it's America's war against Russia?

Best propaganda efforts are evolving into facts that can no longer be denied.

Is this forum roughly equally divided on the questions related to this war?

You are Putin puppet. You go much further than the opinion piece on blaming America.
People talk about extremist liberals that hate America. You are worse.

 

[g5000]

Prove that claim.

And document that!

Too bad you couldn't get much right about this matter preferring leftist talking points to facts.
Your tale has been debunked long ago.

Solomon: These once-secret memos cast doubt on Joe Biden’s Ukraine story

Hundreds of pages of never-released memos and documents – many from inside the American team helping Burisma to stave off its legal troubles – conflict with Joe Biden’s nar…

thehill.com

Too bad you drink the piss of your propagandists so willingly.

https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/03 15 16 Ukrainian Reforms Two Years After the Maidan Revolution and the Russian Invasion.pdf

While reform progress was substantial in 2015, it was not enough for many in civil society and at least some reformers in the Rada and the government. Critics focused on the absence of any real changes in the Procurator General’s Office and in the judiciary and claimed that the president and prime minister were not interested in going after these major sources of corruption. Both institutions were known to facilitate corruption. They pointed to the failure of the government—through the Procurator General— to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption. They complained, too, that Procurator General Viktor Shokin was a compromised figure who had served as Procurator General in the Yanukovych administration.

By late fall of 2015, the EU and the United States joined the chorus of those seeking Mr. Shokin’s removal as the start of an overall reform of the Procurator General’s Office. U.S. Vice President Joe Biden spoke publicly about this before and during his December visit to Kyiv; but Mr. Shokin remained in place. Early in the new year Mr. Pavlenko, the Minister of Agriculture; Mr. Pyvovarskiy, the Minister of Infrastructure; and Mr. Kvitashvili, the Minister of Health, quietly resigned. This had little impact on the reform debate. But in early February Mr. Abromavicius, the Minister of Economy, resigned and complained that he was tired of fighting corruption. He said that the immediate cause for his decision was an effort by close presidential aide Ihor Kononenko to install a crony as Deputy Minister of Economy with responsibility for the newly-cleaned up Naftogaz. Mr. Kononenko denied the charge, but civil society and other reformers took Mr. Abromavicius’ side.

So did the West. The United States, the EU, and eight Ambassadors of other countries expressed regret at Mr. Abromavicius’ resignation. So did IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde. In response to the controversy, Mr. Poroshenko called for Mr. Shokin’s removal and for an investigation into the charges against Mr. Kononenko. The efforts to place someone as Deputy Minister of Economy to oversee Naftogaz died. The Rada passed reform legislation that had been blocked for months. This legislation was required by the EU for the implementation of the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement.

What is more, Mr. Yatsenyuk engaged with all the reform ministers to bring them back into the government. Kvitashvili, Pavlenko and Pyvovarskiy agreed; Abromavicius did not. Pro-reform Deputy Prosecutor-General Vitaliy Kasko also resigned.

 

[georgephillip]

Nazi's got us to the moon.

At least they didn't put the Third Reich in orbit?

 

[g5000]

Keeping up appearances: How Europe is supporting Ukraine’s transformation | European Council on Foreign Relations

In November 2013, the people of Ukraine assembled en masse in Kyiv’s Maidan square. They were protesting President Viktor Yanukovych’s failure to sign Ukraine’s Association Agreement with the EU. The Maidan uprising sent Ukrainian politics into chaos. It began a chain of events that led to the Russian annexation of Crimea and to the ongoing war in the Donbas. And it changed the political leadership and set Ukraine on the rocky road to reform.

<snip>

Judicial reform has been equally slow-moving. Though key legislation has been passed, it has not yet been implemented. Constitutional amendments on reform of the judiciary are currently being assessed by the constitutional court. There is a vibrant discussion about the extent of political influence on the judiciary. Both the president and the parliament use their far-reaching powers to appoint judges to influence verdicts and settlements in their favour. Despite a constitutional overhaul of many paragraphs regarding the judiciary, there has been too little change on this. The dismissal, by former Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, of reform-minded prosecutors who dared to investigate corruption by Poroshenko allies in spring 2016, and the launching of intimidating investigations against anti-corruption investigative NGOs for embezzlement, illustrates this problem.

<snip>

By the end of 2015, it was clear that the initial momentum for reform after the revolution had died out. Many experts – both Ukrainian and international – complained that the old habits of doing politics were creeping back. The window of opportunity to change Ukraine quickly and radically – as in Poland or the Czech Republic after 1989 – seems to have passed. The crisis that followed on the heels of the ousting of Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, and then the subsequent changes in government – with all important reform-minded ministers dropping out or resigning – was an indication of how precarious the situation in Kyiv was, and still is.

<snip>

The Defence Ministry brought in new faces from civil society on a large scale after Maidan. Many experts have cited this as a positive example, and suggested that it should be copied by other ministries. The Economy Ministry under Abromavičius was another positive example, as he took steps to include experts from the private sector and civil society. But it is not clear whether this has continued after his departure in February 2016. In the Prosecutor General's office, the opposite took place, as Former General Prosecutor Viktor Shokin fired or prosecuted all young foreign-educated, reform-minded newcomers.

 

[g5000]

Old hoaxes never die.

Republican Inquiry Finds No Evidence of Wrongdoing by Biden​

​

The report delivered on Wednesday appeared to be little more than a rehashing of unproven allegations that echoed a Russian disinformation campaign.

But an 87-page report summing up the findings, released jointly on Wednesday by the Senate Homeland Security and Finance Committees, contained no evidence that the elder Mr. Biden improperly manipulated American policy toward Ukraine or committed any other misdeed. In fact, investigators heard witness testimony that rebutted those charges.

 

[g5000]

Former Ukraine prosecutor says Hunter Biden ‘did not violate anything’
“Hunter Biden cannot be responsible for violations of the management of Burisma that took place two years before his arrival,” Lutsenko said.


Ukraine Prosecutor Says No Evidence of Wrongdoing by Bidens


It Doesn’t Take a Genius to Interfere in the U.S. Presidential Election
As the whistleblower’s report notes, even before Trump was repeating Lutsenko’s lines to Zelensky, the prosecutor was already walking them back. And since the release of the whistleblower report, Lutsenko has told multiple major U.S. newspapers that, regardless of what he said earlier, he doesn’t have dirt on Biden of any consequence whatsoever.


What To Know About The Ukrainian Company At The Heart Of Trump's Biden Allegations

On Friday, Ruslan Ryaboshapka, Ukraine's newly appointed chief prosecutor, told reporters his office will review all investigations shelved by his predecessors, including those involving Burisma and Zlochevsky. Those investigations were into activities that took place before Hunter Biden joined the board in 2014.

 

[Lesh]

Thank you g5000

 

[Donald H]

You are Putin puppet. You go much further than the opinion piece on blaming America.
People talk about extremist liberals that hate America. You are worse.

I like to entertain all the possibilities mr. mudd. Would you prefer to not be warned of the possibilities before the super sonic weapons meet their targets? Sort of a 'last supper' before the rapture up!

 

[linux07]

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Please explain how former sitcom star Zelensky has been enabling money laundering.

You do realize Trump's campaign manager Paul Manafort was laundering money during the reign of Putin's puppet Yanukovych, right?

Insert zelensky and biden has his magic money machine. Golden boy hunter and burisma, bringing home the goods. The big guy, daddy, got 10 percent.