Zone1 Upon This Rock I Will Build My Church

[Mortimer]

MATTHEW 16 KJV

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

 

[cnm]

So whom were Peter's favourite porn stars?

 

[Cougarbear]

MATTHEW 16 KJV

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

What is your point? Jesus said that His Father revealed to him (which is prophecy and revelation) that Jesus is the Father's Son. Jesus then said that upon this "ROCK" he will build His Church. What is the "ROCK?" It's not Peter. It's the prophecy and revelation from the Godhead of The Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The Church wasn't built upon Peter. Peter is just a man. It's build actually on Jesus Christ, the Chief Cornerstone.
If Christ's Church was built upon Peter, when Peter died, the Church would then die also. But, it didn't. It continued through the Spirit of Prophecy and Revelation of the Apostles who were left and added upon until John the Revelator disappeared. Jesus also said "Do all things in His Name." That means all things such as naming the Church. What the heck is "Catholic?" Is that the name of Jesus Christ? Nope.

 

[cnm]

What the heck is "Catholic?"

'Universal'

 

[kjw47]

MATTHEW 16 KJV

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

It most assuredly wasn't the religion that came out of Rome(Catholicism)--Their own translating proves them to be false religion. Their bloodguilt has amassed to the heavens.

 

[Cougarbear]

'Universal'

So, the Universal Church is the Lord's church. LOL!
Colossians 3:17, "and whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus..." Yet, they couldn't even name what they thought was his Church in His name. Sad...

 

[cnm]

So, the Universal Church is the Lord's church. LOL!
Colossians 3:17, "and whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus..." Yet, they couldn't even name what they thought was his Church in His name. Sad...

The semantics of crazed desert religions do not concern me.

 

[Cougarbear]

The semantics of crazed desert religions do not concern me.

Then why are you here?

 

[cnm]

For light entertainment from those who take seriously the bored's craziest loon's latest witterings.

 

[Likkmee]

For light entertainment from those who take seriously the bored's craziest loon's latest witterings.

What will be cnn'z last words ?
Oh Fuck ! It's true !

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The semantics of crazed desert religions do not concern me.

You love using the term "desert religions" as if that disqualifies all of them. It's a meaningless display of contempt. Debate the merits of the "beliefs" if you are capable.

And it apparently does concern you since you post that phrase quite regularly

 

[greenerpastures]

What is your point? Jesus said that His Father revealed to him (which is prophecy and revelation) that Jesus is the Father's Son. Jesus then said that upon this "ROCK" he will build His Church. What is the "ROCK?" It's not Peter.

no, it WAS Peter

Jesus specifically said "thou art PETER and on this rock [that you are] I will build My Church..."

Jesus was on His way back to Heaven. He had to leave one of the 12 to take His place as head of the earthly Church and Peter is always listed first in Scripture. (and there were other reason he was chosen. He probably loved Jesus more than anyone else).

 

[Cougarbear]

no, it WAS Peter

Jesus specifically said "thou art PETER and on this rock [that you are] I will build My Church..."

Jesus was on His way back to Heaven. He had to leave one of the 12 to take His place as head of the earthly Church and Peter is always listed first in Scripture. (and there were other reason he was chosen. He probably loved Jesus more than anyone else).

Jesus asked his disciples who he was whether the Son of man or John the Baptist or some other prophet because some people said so. Jesus wanted to know why and how they knew He was. Peter said the He was the Son of the Living God, the Christ (messiah). Then, Jesus gave the reason Peter knew this. His Father, through revelation (the Holy Ghost) gave him this knowledge. Did the Father come to Peter and directly tell him? No. The Father did this through revelation. And, because Peter asked the Father in the Son's name for the answer to who Jesus is, Jesus gave the power and authority to Peter to lead the Church when Jesus was crucified. The Keys only work through revelation from the Father and Son. Peter became the Prophet or leader of the Church until he died. So, if the rock was Peter, the Church could not have continued. So, through revelation, the other apostles also held keys to further the work of the Lord but only thought revelations. Only if the Heavens are open because of prophets and apostles. Once they were gone and no more prophets or apostles were alive to hold the keys of revelation then the heavens closed and the great apostacy that Paul revealed in a vision began. Revelation is the key and the rock of Jesus Christ. The Rock or Chief Cornerstone of Israel is Jesus Christ and his communication through prophets and apostles holding the keys of revelation is mandatory for the Church to continue, It did not and thus, a restoration of the keys of revelation had to occur through a Prophet. And, it did through Joseph Smith.

 

[Clyde 154]

The semantics of crazed desert religions do not concern me.

Yet.......you retored to a topic that "Does not concern you"? Concern: be on the mind of.......thinking of.........

Me thinks that you are phising/trolling.

 

[Clyde 154]

Jesus asked his disciples who he was whether the Son of man or John the Baptist or some other prophet because some people said so. Jesus wanted to know why and how they knew He was. Peter said the He was the Son of the Living God, the Christ (messiah). Then, Jesus gave the reason Peter knew this. His Father, through revelation (the Holy Ghost) gave him this knowledge. Did the Father come to Peter and directly tell him? No. The Father did this through revelation. And, because Peter asked the Father in the Son's name for the answer to who Jesus is, Jesus gave the power and authority to Peter to lead the Church when Jesus was crucified. The Keys only work through revelation from the Father and Son. Peter became the Prophet or leader of the Church until he died. So, if the rock was Peter, the Church could not have continued. So, through revelation, the other apostles also held keys to further the work of the Lord but only thought revelations. Only if the Heavens are open because of prophets and apostles. Once they were gone and no more prophets or apostles were alive to hold the keys of revelation then the heavens closed and the great apostacy that Paul revealed in a vision began. Revelation is the key and the rock of Jesus Christ. The Rock or Chief Cornerstone of Israel is Jesus Christ and his communication through prophets and apostles holding the keys of revelation is mandatory for the Church to continue, It did not and thus, a restoration of the keys of revelation had to occur through a Prophet. And, it did through Joseph Smith.

Keys are used for one purpose.........to "open/enter/lock/keep out". Peter used those keys while binding on earth that which is will be bound in heaven......Matthew 16. Meaning: whatever Peter was instructed by Jesus through the Holy Spirit (John 16:13-15) was doctrine for the Kingdom of God...i.e., the church (all through out the scriptures 3 terms are used synonymously, Kingdom of God, Kingdom of Christ, and Church, in fact in Matthew 16 Jesus speaks in one breath addressing His Kingdom and in the next.......He referes to the Kingdom as HIS CHURCH which the gates of Hades shall never prevail).......all are one and the same. Why did the Holy Spirit fall upon the Apostles of Christ...........because Jesus promised them that they would be baptized and endowed with power by the Holy Spirit in order for Jesus to communicate to them and deliver to them THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH (a comforter the Holy Spirit).....THAT THE WORLD COULD NOT RECEIVE........." (John 14:17)

When did Peter use the keys of the kingdom given to Him via Jesus? When He opened the door to the Kingdom of God, informing everyone present on the day of Pentecost after the ascension of Jesus into heaven (Acts 1:9)

"Then Peter said to unto them, Repent and Be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and ye shall receive the "GIFT" of the Holy Ghost." -- Acts 2:38 And on that day some 3000 souls were added to the Kingdom of God/Christ/Church (Acts 2:41) A gift of the Holy Spirit is something given by the Spirit.....that gift to everyone.......the deliverence of TRUTH to the world from Jesus. Today you can access that gift of knowledge only through reading the words of the Holy Scriptures that were all inspired of God..........the remaining gifts of the spirit are faith, hope and love/charity...with love being the greatest gift of the spirit.


Any "NEW REVELATIONS" from God must be confirmed the same way they were confirmed in the 1st century.........WITH SIGNS and WONDERS. I have yet to witness a miraculous confirmation in modern times........by those professing to be modern day apostles (messengers) of Christ.....whether they are Mormons or POPES. A miraculous event is something that can't be explained by applying the laws of physics/nature. Miracles used to confirm the word in the 1st century where giving sight to the blind, turning water into wine, feeding the masses with loaves and fish........raising the dead, healing the lame........, all were witnessed and not once did a miracle fail because "of a lack of faith of those who were being healed".

Anyone that claims that they speak to God through the Holy Spirit and He answers them ..........are either lying or not playing with a full deck of cards. If God speaks directly.....what is the need for the Holy Sciptures upon which all FAITH is constructed? "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God......."

God does not use PROPHETS to speak to His people today, "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers (ancestors) in the prophets in many ways and many portions.........in these Last Days has spoken to us in His Son......whom He has appointed heir of all things........" -- Heb. 1:1 There is only one way to hear the words of Jesus today.........read the words of Truth that Jesus delivered via the Holy Spirit to His apostles of the 1st century.

 

[greenerpastures]

Jesus asked his disciples who he was whether the Son of man or John the Baptist or some other prophet because some people said so. Jesus wanted to know why and how they knew He was. Peter said the He was the Son of the Living God, the Christ (messiah). Then, Jesus gave the reason Peter knew this. His Father, through revelation (the Holy Ghost) gave him this knowledge. Did the Father come to Peter and directly tell him? No. The Father did this through revelation. And, because Peter asked the Father in the Son's name for the answer to who Jesus is, Jesus gave the power and authority to Peter to lead the Church when Jesus was crucified. The Keys only work through revelation from the Father and Son. Peter became the Prophet or leader of the Church until he died. So, if the rock was Peter, the Church could not have continued

you stopped making sense right here

If Peter dying and going to Heaven is the end of his reign as Head of the Church on Earth (and in some ways, it kinda was) then Jesus Himself going to Heaven would mean the same thing, that the Church no loner existed. So we see how logical your point is. . not very.

Peter was the first Pope but obviously not the last one. And some Catholics say the last valid pope was Pius XII and I tend to be in that group. Jesus of course knows more than anyone else what is going on with His Church on Earth, all the insanity, the heresy, the sexual perversion, the lawlessness.

All I know and all Catholics of any kind need to know is that the SSPX is the Church as Christ founded it. The SsPX went on being Catholic long after the Vatican II heretics went THEIR separate ways. The Vatican will tell u that the SSPX people are in schism but it is THEY who broke off from the TRUE Church, the true teachings/practices/tradition.

There is only ONE Chuch. Jesus Christ didn't need to establish 60,000 different de nominations.. that is chaos

 

[Cougarbear]

Keys are used for one purpose.........to "open/enter/lock/keep out". Peter used those keys while binding on earth that which is will be bound in heaven......Matthew 16. Meaning: whatever Peter was instructed by Jesus through the Holy Spirit (John 16:13-15) was doctrine for the Kingdom of God...i.e., the church (all through out the scriptures 3 terms are used synonymously, Kingdom of God, Kingdom of Christ, and Church, in fact in Matthew 16 Jesus speaks in one breath addressing His Kingdom and in the next.......He referes to the Kingdom as HIS CHURCH which the gates of Hades shall never prevail).......all are one and the same. Why did the Holy Spirit fall upon the Apostles of Christ...........because Jesus promised them that they would be baptized and endowed with power by the Holy Spirit in order for Jesus to communicate to them and deliver to them THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH (a comforter the Holy Spirit).....THAT THE WORLD COULD NOT RECEIVE........." (John 14:17)

When did Peter use the keys of the kingdom given to Him via Jesus? When He opened the door to the Kingdom of God, informing everyone present on the day of Pentecost after the ascension of Jesus into heaven (Acts 1:9)

"Then Peter said to unto them, Repent and Be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and ye shall receive the "GIFT" of the Holy Ghost." -- Acts 2:38 And on that day some 3000 souls were added to the Kingdom of God/Christ/Church (Acts 2:41) A gift of the Holy Spirit is something given by the Spirit.....that gift to everyone.......the deliverence of TRUTH to the world from Jesus. Today you can access that gift of knowledge only through reading the words of the Holy Scriptures that were all inspired of God..........the remaining gifts of the spirit are faith, hope and love/charity...with love being the greatest gift of the spirit.


Any "NEW REVELATIONS" from God must be confirmed the same way they were confirmed in the 1st century.........WITH SIGNS and WONDERS. I have yet to witness a miraculous confirmation in modern times........by those professing to be modern day apostles (messengers) of Christ.....whether they are Mormons or POPES. A miraculous event is something that can't be explained by applying the laws of physics/nature. Miracles used to confirm the word in the 1st century where giving sight to the blind, turning water into wine, feeding the masses with loaves and fish........raising the dead, healing the lame........, all were witnessed and not once did a miracle fail because "of a lack of faith of those who were being healed".

Anyone that claims that they speak to God through the Holy Spirit and He answers them ..........are either lying or not playing with a full deck of cards. If God speaks directly.....what is the need for the Holy Sciptures upon which all FAITH is constructed? "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God......."

God does not use PROPHETS to speak to His people today, "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers (ancestors) in the prophets in many ways and many portions.........in these Last Days has spoken to us in His Son......whom He has appointed heir of all things........" -- Heb. 1:1 There is only one way to hear the words of Jesus today.........read the words of Truth that Jesus delivered via the Holy Spirit to His apostles of the 1st century.

In the first few paragraphs, you proved my point that the "Rock" is "Revelation." Not Peter. Revelation went through Peter because he was given the keys to receive revelation including the gift of the Holy Ghost. But, he was also given the keys of authority to perform the baptisms and giving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Keys do unlock doors, doors of authority to bind on earth so that act is also bound in heaven. But, the other apostles also received keys as well or they could not have taught Christ nor spoken revelations and knowledge of the Gospel Doctrine. However, if there was ever any debate, the chief apostle, in this case Peter, would have the authority to decide.

What eventually happened was the bishops and priests of the time of Paul and John the Revelator distorted the doctrines and ordinances of Christ's Church. Therefore, the Godhead no longer gave the keys of the kingdom to anyone. You said as much as you and most of Christiandome today has no keys of revelation to bind anything on earth into heaven. Nor, does any of the so-called ministers of the gospel have any authoritative keys of the kingdom to speak Christ Doctrine that is binding. An Apostle-prophet is necessary as it was in Christ's time and in OT times as well. The 10.5 tribes of Israel and Judah+ half of Benjamin were at different times destroyed and carried away because they rejected the prophets. Today, the same thing is going on because there are some 30,000 different sects or churches teaching confusing doctrine because they reject revelation from God. You can say people today have the gift of the Holy Ghost but how? If no one holds the keys of the kingdom and revelation, no one has that gift. The Holy Ghost can only influence truly faithful people seeking the truth.

So, if you believe the gift of the Holy Ghost exists today, then you also have to agree that someone is an apostle-prophet that would be holding the keys to bind on earth that which will be bound in heaven by the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Bible has no binding power whatsoever. It cannot speak nor perform ordinances. It's a book of paper. I'm not saying the Bible has no value because it most certainly does. It can lead people to Christ and a desire to be baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. But, without an apostle or prophet, that authority cannot be designated to individuals on earth to bind in heaven. Paul said there would be an apostacy and there has been a great apostacy from ancient days to the last days. The scriptures and the Light of Christ have been able to keep a spark of the Gospel alive, but that's it. No revelation nor the gift of the Holy Ghost. Therefore, as Isaiah foresaw the last days, "Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid....And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness." Read Isaiah chapter 29 and you will see it's not talking about the Bible. And, an apostle-prophet would be necessary for this to happen. So, who is this apostle-prophet today? You say you haven't seen any evidence. Yet, the very things you say are needed are found with Joseph Smith that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He was influenced by the Bible to seek out Heavenly Father to know which Church was teaching the truth since they all taught different doctrines. By the power of the Holy Ghost, the Father and Son manifested themselves in the spirit to Joseph Smith. In which he was told not to join any of the other churches for they were all in apostasy and wrong. That the Godhead of The Father, Son and Holy Ghost with the angels of Heaven would restore the Church of Jesus Christ in these the last days through Joseph Smith and thus an apostle-prophet. And, as in Isaiah 29, it was through Joseph Smith that the book that was sealed and dug up from the ground, The Book of Mormon, the marvellous work and wonder was accomplished by 1830 and the Church restored with all the keys of the Kingdom except the binding power of families in heaven. That came in 1836 when Elijah the prophet appeared in the temple in Kirkland, Ohio to Joseph Smith and others. People ask me often why then? Why not these kinds of miracles today? It's really very simple. This had to happen before modern science could create illusions of visitations with holograms and such things. So, if you are looking for such things today, lots of luck. The miracles are different today and are very personal. But, I've seen the veil that blocks us from our minds seeing heaven and God. For those with faith not wavering and with real intent, miracles still happen.

But, as Isaiah said, prudent smart people thinking they know everything to happen have miracles hid from them. Rabbis, Ministers, Preachers, Priests, Popes.....they all are prudent men that lack simple faith and real intent to know the truth. Biblical scholars really fit the bill of prudent men who are blinded from the truth. Just ask the JW's scholars about the divinity of Jesus Christ.

 

[Clyde 154]

In the first few paragraphs, you proved my point that the "Rock" is "Revelation." Not Peter. Revelation went through Peter because he was given the keys to receive revelation including the gift of the Holy Ghost. But, he was also given the keys of authority to perform the baptisms and giving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Keys do unlock doors, doors of authority to bind on earth so that act is also bound in heaven. But, the other apostles also received keys as well or they could not have taught Christ nor spoken revelations and knowledge of the Gospel Doctrine. However, if there was ever any debate, the chief apostle, in this case Peter, would have the authority to decide.

What eventually happened was the bishops and priests of the time of Paul and John the Revelator distorted the doctrines and ordinances of Christ's Church. Therefore, the Godhead no longer gave the keys of the kingdom to anyone. You said as much as you and most of Christiandome today has no keys of revelation to bind anything on earth into heaven. Nor, does any of the so-called ministers of the gospel have any authoritative keys of the kingdom to speak Christ Doctrine that is binding. An Apostle-prophet is necessary as it was in Christ's time and in OT times as well. The 10.5 tribes of Israel and Judah+ half of Benjamin were at different times destroyed and carried away because they rejected the prophets. Today, the same thing is going on because there are some 30,000 different sects or churches teaching confusing doctrine because they reject revelation from God. You can say people today have the gift of the Holy Ghost but how? If no one holds the keys of the kingdom and revelation, no one has that gift. The Holy Ghost can only influence truly faithful people seeking the truth.

So, if you believe the gift of the Holy Ghost exists today, then you also have to agree that someone is an apostle-prophet that would be holding the keys to bind on earth that which will be bound in heaven by the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Bible has no binding power whatsoever. It cannot speak nor perform ordinances. It's a book of paper. I'm not saying the Bible has no value because it most certainly does. It can lead people to Christ and a desire to be baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. But, without an apostle or prophet, that authority cannot be designated to individuals on earth to bind in heaven. Paul said there would be an apostacy and there has been a great apostacy from ancient days to the last days. The scriptures and the Light of Christ have been able to keep a spark of the Gospel alive, but that's it. No revelation nor the gift of the Holy Ghost. Therefore, as Isaiah foresaw the last days, "Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid....And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness." Read Isaiah chapter 29 and you will see it's not talking about the Bible. And, an apostle-prophet would be necessary for this to happen. So, who is this apostle-prophet today? You say you haven't seen any evidence. Yet, the very things you say are needed are found with Joseph Smith that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He was influenced by the Bible to seek out Heavenly Father to know which Church was teaching the truth since they all taught different doctrines. By the power of the Holy Ghost, the Father and Son manifested themselves in the spirit to Joseph Smith. In which he was told not to join any of the other churches for they were all in apostasy and wrong. That the Godhead of The Father, Son and Holy Ghost with the angels of Heaven would restore the Church of Jesus Christ in these the last days through Joseph Smith and thus an apostle-prophet. And, as in Isaiah 29, it was through Joseph Smith that the book that was sealed and dug up from the ground, The Book of Mormon, the marvellous work and wonder was accomplished by 1830 and the Church restored with all the keys of the Kingdom except the binding power of families in heaven. That came in 1836 when Elijah the prophet appeared in the temple in Kirkland, Ohio to Joseph Smith and others. People ask me often why then? Why not these kinds of miracles today? It's really very simple. This had to happen before modern science could create illusions of visitations with holograms and such things. So, if you are looking for such things today, lots of luck. The miracles are different today and are very personal. But, I've seen the veil that blocks us from our minds seeing heaven and God. For those with faith not wavering and with real intent, miracles still happen.

But, as Isaiah said, prudent smart people thinking they know everything to happen have miracles hid from them. Rabbis, Ministers, Preachers, Priests, Popes.....they all are prudent men that lack simple faith and real intent to know the truth. Biblical scholars really fit the bill of prudent men who are blinded from the truth. Just ask the JW's scholars about the divinity of Jesus Christ.

You are considered a LIAR if you make the claim that Modern Apostles of Christ exist today and the scriptures prove it.

You refuse to document any actual SUPERNATURAL ACTS performed by these (wink, wink) MODERN DAY APOSTLES......because YOU CANNOT, thus you OPINE about how things have changed and must basically claim that the miracles recorded in the Holy Bible are fraudulent and could be demonstrated as such TODAY because of man's technology.

Again.........why must those who refuse to accept the actual content of the Holy Scriptures attempt to twist them around whatever false doctrine they are caught in the snare of? Again.......the scriptures are not to be personally interpreted, they interpret themselves via the Content, Context and Subject Matter (2 Peter 1:19-21).

No where in the Holy Bible is it mentioned that Jesus gave the Keys to the Kingdom.......His church, His Kingdom, the Kingdom of God to anyone other than Peter. Again.....Keys are used to open and to lock. Peter's inspired words as directed by Jesus Christ through the Spirit of Truth (John 17:13-15)...AKA the Holy Ghost, to open the door to the kingdom of God........the church of Christ. Peter "opened the door to the kingdom when he informed those he was preaching to on the day of Pentecost just how one enter's the kingdom of God which is a spiritual kingdom, a New Jerusalem......Spiritual Israel that exists "within the hearts of those who would obey God's righteous laws" (Jer. 31:31-34, Luke 17:21) 3000 souls were added to the church of Christ on that day, they entered the kingdom of God......in a spiritual method.

Peter clearly said, "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins......and you shall receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit.........NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT but THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, which is truth through knowledge that comes directly from Christ Jesus. Today that knowledge is accessible to anyone that would read the Holy Spirit inspired Word of God......anyone that claims that they are Personal Messengers of the Christ (Apostles) today are LIARS unless they can show the signs of a true Apostle of Christ. Besides using the keys to OPEN the door to the Kingdom.........the Holy Spirit used the words of Peter to Lock the doors to the kingdom...........whatever is bound on earth is also bound in Heaven.

When challenged to demonstrate the signs of a true apostle of Christ..........you must make up your own story.......MIRACLES are different today than they were in the 1st century......MIRACLE: a mainfestation of the SUPERNATURAL. You claim that the people of the 1st century were fools and gullible because of today's modern technology.....in essence you are claiming that Jesus and the Apostles of Christ were frauds and if they attempted such acts of the supernatural today Man's modern technology would expose them as frauds.


Regardless of man's technongly.......man is not capable of bringing a 3 day old dead person back to life, making the blind from birth have vision, turn water into wine. Why must you DEFLECT away from the fact there has not been a documented and proven MIRCALE on earth since the last person who was given a gift of miracles by the laying on of the hands of an Apostle DIED. The Apostles of Christ where the only servants of Christ that were promised the miraculous power of the Holy Ghost (the ability to confirm thier teaching as coming from Heaven through supernatural acts)..........the ordinary person was never promised such........as was the apostles(John 16:13-15). (John 14:17), ".........which THE WORLD cannot receive......."

What happens when someone wants the same authority that Jesus granted to His hand picked Apostles, to lay their hands on a person to pass on some supernatural gift of the Holy Spirit, as directed by the Holy Spirit Himself? Allow Peter to demonstrate and give you the correct answer THE TRUTH.

Peter used those same keys to the kingdom to LOCK OUT FRAUDS such as the church of modern day frauds.......be enlightend of how Peter locked out your guild of frauds.

Read Acts Chapter 8....beginning with verse 14. "Now when apostles in Jerusalem had received the word of God. They sent them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they would receive the Holy Spirit, for He had not yet fallen upon any of them, they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. THEN THEY (Peter and John) BEGAN LAYING THEIR HANDS ON THEM, AND THEY WERE RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT............

Now when Simon (the sorcerer) NOW WHEN SIMON SAW THAT THE SPIRIT WAS GIVEN BY THE LAYING ON OF THE APOSTLES' HANDS, he (Simon) offered them money, saying, give me this authority as well.......so that everyone I lay hands on receives the Holy Spirit.

But Peter said to him, MAY YOUR SILVER PERISH WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD ACQUIRE THE GIFT FROM GOD WITH MONEY...........(I decleare the same to you and your so called modern day Apostles of Christ) YOU HAVE NOT PART NOR SHARE IN THIS MATTER............" -- Acts 8:14-21

In FACT the scriptures enlighten us that the age of miracles (Holy Ghost Inspired acts of supernatural) would fail when the PERFECT comes. (1 Cor. 13) Perfect in Greek means Completed/Whole) Paul declared that during his time period he knew only in part (there was no recorded New Testament Revelations for everyone to establish doctrine as directed by the Holy Spirt)....today the FAITH has been delivered ONCE FOR ALL by the saints of the first century (Jude 3) it exists in the New Testament of Christ Jesus and is available to everyone COMPLETE/WHOLE it was completed in the 1st century not in the 19th century.

Today the GIFTS of the HOLY SPIRIT that are accessible to everyone are FAITH (constructed by reading the Word of God.....no one is born a Christian), HOPE, and CHARITY/LOVE. The greatest gift of the spirit is LOVE.

You are proven a liar........if you cannot prove that your supposed Apostles were personally appointed Jesus Christ or His Apostles through the casting of inspired lots......votes. If you cannot prove that they were alive from the beginning of Jesus' mininstry on earth from the time of John the Baptist forward to the death of Jesus on the cross........ALL pre-requisities of being a true Apostle of Christ.......most importantly, you are not capable of demonstrating mircaulous signs and wonders to confirm your word as coming from Heaven.

I am commanded to "TEST ALL THINGS.......and hold on to the righteous things". Thus far your guild is found lacking by the LOCK placed upon the kingdom of God to prevent frauds from taking advantage those weak in faith. Your guild are like children.......mimicking the acts of the elders, playing church, "When I was a child I acted as a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child........but when I became a MAN I put away childish things." The church of Christ is no longer in its infancy......it matured in the 1st century.

 

[Cougarbear]

you stopped making sense right here

If Peter dying and going to Heaven is the end of his reign as Head of the Church on Earth (and in some ways, it kinda was) then Jesus Himself going to Heaven would mean the same thing, that the Church no loner existed. So we see how logical your point is. . not very.

My Point is clear. Read again what I wrote. Jesus gave Peter the keys of authority to run His church when Jesus left the earth. But, Jesus did return after his resurrection to continue to teach Peter and the other apostles doctrine and the mysteries of Heaven. When he ascended again for the last time until the latter-days, Peter had those keys. Now, when he died, the other apostles were given the same keys. But, only one apostle at a time can operate all the keys of the Kingdom for the world. So, other apostles continued the Church after Peter died until apostacy so gripped the church that no more apostles were called and revelation ceased until the latter-days. I don't know how you missed Jesus giving the keys of the kingdom to Peter? The keys of revelation to know what Jesus wants the church to be doing through Peter.

Peter was the first Pope but obviously not the last one. And some Catholics say the last valid pope was Pius XII and I tend to be in that group. Jesus of course knows more than anyone else what is going on with His Church on Earth, all the insanity, the heresy, the sexual perversion, the lawlessness.

First of all, Peter was an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, not a Pope. Even the current Pope does not claim to be an apostle or prophet with revelation from Heaven. Yes, the keys were passed on to other apostles when Peter died. But, eventually, the Apostleship died as well with Paul and John gone. Apostacy in a church that polluted the everlasting Gospel of Jesus Christ. They changed doctrines, ordinances and commandments as well.

All I know and all Catholics of any kind need to know is that the SSPX is the Church as Christ founded it. The SsPX went on being Catholic long after the Vatican II heretics went THEIR separate ways. The Vatican will tell u that the SSPX people are in schism but it is THEY who broke off from the TRUE Church, the true teachings/practices/tradition.
There is only ONE Chuch. Jesus Christ didn't need to establish 60,000 different de nominations.. that is chaos

Through tradition, that's all Catholics know. Good people for the most part. I taught at a Catholic high school for 16 years as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They teach to love one another as do Jews do and many other churches. That's not the challenge with apostacy. Apostacy takes away the saving doctrines and ordinances and the power and authority to perform those ordinances such as baptism and when to perform them. There is no binding on earth so that the ordinances can be bound in heaven. Just take marriage as an example. The marriage of RCC, Protestants, Jews...is till death do you part. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has all the keys to bind in heaven that which is bound on earth (sealed on earth as it is then sealed in heaven). That includes eternal marriages and families in heaven. Note that I did not say marriage is given in Heaven. It isn't. The binding (sealing of marriage) ordinance of marriage for eternity has to be done on earth and is done inside our Temples of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Cougarbear]

You are considered a LIAR if you make the claim that Modern Apostles of Christ exist today and the scriptures prove it.

You refuse to document any actual SUPERNATURAL ACTS performed by these (wink, wink) MODERN DAY APOSTLES......because YOU CANNOT, thus you OPINE about how things have changed and must basically claim that the miracles recorded in the Holy Bible are fraudulent and could be demonstrated as such TODAY because of man's technology.

Again.........why must those who refuse to accept the actual content of the Holy Scriptures attempt to twist them around whatever false doctrine they are caught in the snare of? Again.......the scriptures are not to be personally interpreted, they interpret themselves via the Content, Context and Subject Matter (2 Peter 1:19-21).

No where in the Holy Bible is it mentioned that Jesus gave the Keys to the Kingdom.......His church, His Kingdom, the Kingdom of God to anyone other than Peter. Again.....Keys are used to open and to lock. Peter's inspired words as directed by Jesus Christ through the Spirit of Truth (John 17:13-15)...AKA the Holy Ghost, to open the door to the kingdom of God........the church of Christ. Peter "opened the door to the kingdom when he informed those he was preaching to on the day of Pentecost just how one enter's the kingdom of God which is a spiritual kingdom, a New Jerusalem......Spiritual Israel that exists "within the hearts of those who would obey God's righteous laws" (Jer. 31:31-34, Luke 17:21) 3000 souls were added to the church of Christ on that day, they entered the kingdom of God......in a spiritual method.

Peter clearly said, "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins......and you shall receive the GIFT of the Holy Spirit.........NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT but THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, which is truth through knowledge that comes directly from Christ Jesus. Today that knowledge is accessible to anyone that would read the Holy Spirit inspired Word of God......anyone that claims that they are Personal Messengers of the Christ (Apostles) today are LIARS unless they can show the signs of a true Apostle of Christ. Besides using the keys to OPEN the door to the Kingdom.........the Holy Spirit used the words of Peter to Lock the doors to the kingdom...........whatever is bound on earth is also bound in Heaven.

When challenged to demonstrate the signs of a true apostle of Christ..........you must make up your own story.......MIRACLES are different today than they were in the 1st century......MIRACLE: a mainfestation of the SUPERNATURAL. You claim that the people of the 1st century were fools and gullible because of today's modern technology.....in essence you are claiming that Jesus and the Apostles of Christ were frauds and if they attempted such acts of the supernatural today Man's modern technology would expose them as frauds.


Regardless of man's technongly.......man is not capable of bringing a 3 day old dead person back to life, making the blind from birth have vision, turn water into wine. Why must you DEFLECT away from the fact there has not been a documented and proven MIRCALE on earth since the last person who was given a gift of miracles by the laying on of the hands of an Apostle DIED. The Apostles of Christ where the only servants of Christ that were promised the miraculous power of the Holy Ghost (the ability to confirm thier teaching as coming from Heaven through supernatural acts)..........the ordinary person was never promised such........as was the apostles(John 16:13-15). (John 14:17), ".........which THE WORLD cannot receive......."

What happens when someone wants the same authority that Jesus granted to His hand picked Apostles, to lay their hands on a person to pass on some supernatural gift of the Holy Spirit, as directed by the Holy Spirit Himself? Allow Peter to demonstrate and give you the correct answer THE TRUTH.

Peter used those same keys to the kingdom to LOCK OUT FRAUDS such as the church of modern day frauds.......be enlightend of how Peter locked out your guild of frauds.

Read Acts Chapter 8....beginning with verse 14. "Now when apostles in Jerusalem had received the word of God. They sent them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they would receive the Holy Spirit, for He had not yet fallen upon any of them, they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. THEN THEY (Peter and John) BEGAN LAYING THEIR HANDS ON THEM, AND THEY WERE RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT............

Now when Simon (the sorcerer) NOW WHEN SIMON SAW THAT THE SPIRIT WAS GIVEN BY THE LAYING ON OF THE APOSTLES' HANDS, he (Simon) offered them money, saying, give me this authority as well.......so that everyone I lay hands on receives the Holy Spirit.

But Peter said to him, MAY YOUR SILVER PERISH WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD ACQUIRE THE GIFT FROM GOD WITH MONEY...........(I decleare the same to you and your so called modern day Apostles of Christ) YOU HAVE NOT PART NOR SHARE IN THIS MATTER............" -- Acts 8:14-21

In FACT the scriptures enlighten us that the age of miracles (Holy Ghost Inspired acts of supernatural) would fail when the PERFECT comes. (1 Cor. 13) Perfect in Greek means Completed/Whole) Paul declared that during his time period he knew only in part (there was no recorded New Testament Revelations for everyone to establish doctrine as directed by the Holy Spirt)....today the FAITH has been delivered ONCE FOR ALL by the saints of the first century (Jude 3) it exists in the New Testament of Christ Jesus and is available to everyone COMPLETE/WHOLE it was completed in the 1st century not in the 19th century.

Today the GIFTS of the HOLY SPIRIT that are accessible to everyone are FAITH (constructed by reading the Word of God.....no one is born a Christian), HOPE, and CHARITY/LOVE. The greatest gift of the spirit is LOVE.

You are proven a liar........if you cannot prove that your supposed Apostles were personally appointed Jesus Christ or His Apostles through the casting of inspired lots......votes. If you cannot prove that they were alive from the beginning of Jesus' mininstry on earth from the time of John the Baptist forward to the death of Jesus on the cross........ALL pre-requisities of being a true Apostle of Christ.......most importantly, you are not capable of demonstrating mircaulous signs and wonders to confirm your word as coming from Heaven.

I am commanded to "TEST ALL THINGS.......and hold on to the righteous things". Thus far your guild is found lacking by the LOCK placed upon the kingdom of God to prevent frauds from taking advantage those weak in faith. Your guild are like children.......mimicking the acts of the elders, playing church, "When I was a child I acted as a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child........but when I became a MAN I put away childish things." The church of Christ is no longer in its infancy......it matured in the 1st century.

You are full of assumptions that have no basis of scriptural proof. You have no evidence that Jesus has to be the one to lay His hands on the heads of the anointed apostle. He did this in His time on earth because guess what, he was there to preside over His Church. But, he was not there for Mathias nor Paul. So, explain why Mathias and Paul were able to be apostles by your assumptions? You can't.
While Paul never claimed to be included among the original twelve, true believers have recognized that Jesus appointed him as His special apostle to the Gentiles. And, the same is today. Apostles are special witnesses of Jesus Christ and have a personal testimony and witness of Jesus Christ, His mission, His purpose and teach the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He also must hold the true Priesthood and all the keys of the kingdom as well in the event he becomes the chief apostle of revelation as Peter did. Jesus came back in these last days and Joseph Smith and others personally saw and spoke with the Lord and received the keys of the kingdom to unlock the last dispensation before the 2nd coming of the Lord. The great apostasy is over and all are welcome to now fully come unto Christ. Thus, you are wrong, again. I won't say you lie because you are simply ignorant of the truth.