Universal Healthcare - will not work in the US

[Markle]

If I call my family doctor for an appointment, It will be at least 6 weeks.

You're proud of bad decisions? How amusing!

If I call to schedule my annual checkup, that will be six weeks or so down the road. If I call about a specific ailment, think I have a broken foot, the flu or whatever, I get in that day, or the next.

If you will notice, the waiting list in Canada that I provided is AFTER someone has seen their primary care physician and have been referred to a specialist. How long they have to wait to see the specialist and then how long they have to wait for treatment.

 

[Third Party]

1. Too many people are ingrained with private insurance.
2. Education is not free. Becoming a doctor is expensive, they want to get paid and pay off potential student loans. Working for the Gov't does not do that.
3. Private pay provides better care. Even in Europe, the wealthy go that route.
4. Most logical people (on both sides of the aisle) agree with #1 and #2 and #3.

Candidates Who Attacked Warren Over 'Medicare For All' Draw Massive Fundraising Boost

Our system sucks and repubs have nothing to offer. We will likely get universal healthcare eventually. Other countries have shown it can be much cheaper.

Oh yes-I trust the government to save me money!

 

[Markle]

Our system sucks and repubs have nothing to offer. We will likely get universal healthcare eventually. Other countries have shown it can be much cheaper.

Our system needs work but our healthcare is the finest in the world, bar none.

Americans will never voluntarily accept Socialized healthcare.

As to other countries spending much less, they get what they pay for, inferior care.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Did other countries have ingrained private health plans? No. I don't see it happening until education costs go down significantly.

Yes the insurance industry loves to rob us, Our system is not good, something will change and repubs offer nothing.

GOP concentrates on lower pharma costs. Democrats want to go nuclear. Someone needs a middle ground. I agree the system is ridiculously complex and stupid.

wasn't that what ACA was?

Forcing people to pay for insurance is not a middle ground imo

Seems to me wishing a middle ground without having to make compromises isn't a middle ground either. Aca made sure that people could keep their private insurance and at the same time insured that everybody who wanted it could get insurance. That is a compromise is it not? Every healthcare plan is a balance between service and affordability. Making sure that healthy people are enrolled to cover the cost of the less healthy is part of that balance.

As I said I'm Belgian my wife is American I've seen both sides in action. Know first hand the advantages and drawbacks of both. Something tells me that's more than most can say.

And? In Belgium people do have the private option and that country is tiny. Explain why we cannot treat health insurance like we do auto insurance? Why must it be tied to our employers?

 

[forkup]

Yes the insurance industry loves to rob us, Our system is not good, something will change and repubs offer nothing.

GOP concentrates on lower pharma costs. Democrats want to go nuclear. Someone needs a middle ground. I agree the system is ridiculously complex and stupid.

wasn't that what ACA was?

Forcing people to pay for insurance is not a middle ground imo

Seems to me wishing a middle ground without having to make compromises isn't a middle ground either. Aca made sure that people could keep their private insurance and at the same time insured that everybody who wanted it could get insurance. That is a compromise is it not? Every healthcare plan is a balance between service and affordability. Making sure that healthy people are enrolled to cover the cost of the less healthy is part of that balance.

As I said I'm Belgian my wife is American I've seen both sides in action. Know first hand the advantages and drawbacks of both. Something tells me that's more than most can say.

And? In Belgium people do have the private option and that country is tiny. Explain why we cannot treat health insurance like we do auto insurance? Why must it be tied to our employers?

I didn't say anything of the sort. I was commenting on your position that some 'middle ground' had to be found. I was pointing out that ACA is exactly that. It is a compromise between government-run healthcare and private insurance and your objection to it seems to me that you aren't willing to compromise.

And no there is no real private option. Our main insurance is mandatory it is heavily subsidized and semi-independent. I can take out supplemental private insurance. I also want to ask why do you guys think size matters in judging efficiency. Not for nothing, Germany is several times bigger both in terms of populace and area. Yet they have a comparable result, so does Japan the UK, etc. etc. Some do a bit better, some worse. None of them come even close to the cost of the US this for mediocre results in comparison to other Western Nations. Why is size relevant only for the US.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

GOP concentrates on lower pharma costs. Democrats want to go nuclear. Someone needs a middle ground. I agree the system is ridiculously complex and stupid.

wasn't that what ACA was?

Forcing people to pay for insurance is not a middle ground imo

Seems to me wishing a middle ground without having to make compromises isn't a middle ground either. Aca made sure that people could keep their private insurance and at the same time insured that everybody who wanted it could get insurance. That is a compromise is it not? Every healthcare plan is a balance between service and affordability. Making sure that healthy people are enrolled to cover the cost of the less healthy is part of that balance.

As I said I'm Belgian my wife is American I've seen both sides in action. Know first hand the advantages and drawbacks of both. Something tells me that's more than most can say.

And? In Belgium people do have the private option and that country is tiny. Explain why we cannot treat health insurance like we do auto insurance? Why must it be tied to our employers?

I didn't say anything of the sort. I was commenting on your position that some 'middle ground' had to be found. I was pointing out that ACA is exactly that. It is a compromise between government-run healthcare and private insurance and your objection to it seems to me that you aren't willing to compromise.

And no there is no real private option. Our main insurance is mandatory it is heavily subsidized and semi-independent. I can take out supplemental private insurance. I also want to ask why do you guys think size matters in judging efficiency. Not for nothing, Germany is several times bigger both in terms of populace and area. Yet they have a comparable result, so does Japan the UK, etc. etc. Some do a bit better, some worse. None of them come even close to the cost of the US this for mediocre results in comparison to other Western Nations. Why is size relevant only for the US.

size matters because it’s easier to govern smaller concerns and we have a huge issue with illegals and fraud and there is that pesky huge tuition to become a doctor. Doesn’t make sense to cap MD salaries after they paid so much to become MDs.

 

[forkup]

wasn't that what ACA was?

Forcing people to pay for insurance is not a middle ground imo

Seems to me wishing a middle ground without having to make compromises isn't a middle ground either. Aca made sure that people could keep their private insurance and at the same time insured that everybody who wanted it could get insurance. That is a compromise is it not? Every healthcare plan is a balance between service and affordability. Making sure that healthy people are enrolled to cover the cost of the less healthy is part of that balance.

As I said I'm Belgian my wife is American I've seen both sides in action. Know first hand the advantages and drawbacks of both. Something tells me that's more than most can say.

And? In Belgium people do have the private option and that country is tiny. Explain why we cannot treat health insurance like we do auto insurance? Why must it be tied to our employers?

I didn't say anything of the sort. I was commenting on your position that some 'middle ground' had to be found. I was pointing out that ACA is exactly that. It is a compromise between government-run healthcare and private insurance and your objection to it seems to me that you aren't willing to compromise.

And no there is no real private option. Our main insurance is mandatory it is heavily subsidized and semi-independent. I can take out supplemental private insurance. I also want to ask why do you guys think size matters in judging efficiency. Not for nothing, Germany is several times bigger both in terms of populace and area. Yet they have a comparable result, so does Japan the UK, etc. etc. Some do a bit better, some worse. None of them come even close to the cost of the US this for mediocre results in comparison to other Western Nations. Why is size relevant only for the US.

size matters because it’s easier to govern smaller concerns and we have a huge issue with illegals and fraud and there is that pesky huge tuition to become a doctor. Doesn’t make sense to cap MD salaries after they paid so much to become MDs.

As I said Germany has huge issues, so do we for that matter with immigration. The US takes in about 50k, Germany alone took in over a million. As I said it doesn't really affect our healthcare.Germany: 20.8 million people with immigrant background | DW | 21.08.2019
It is an excuse. Your second argument is true, education is cheaper. Why not make it cheaper in the US if that's what it takes?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Forcing people to pay for insurance is not a middle ground imo

Seems to me wishing a middle ground without having to make compromises isn't a middle ground either. Aca made sure that people could keep their private insurance and at the same time insured that everybody who wanted it could get insurance. That is a compromise is it not? Every healthcare plan is a balance between service and affordability. Making sure that healthy people are enrolled to cover the cost of the less healthy is part of that balance.

As I said I'm Belgian my wife is American I've seen both sides in action. Know first hand the advantages and drawbacks of both. Something tells me that's more than most can say.

And? In Belgium people do have the private option and that country is tiny. Explain why we cannot treat health insurance like we do auto insurance? Why must it be tied to our employers?

I didn't say anything of the sort. I was commenting on your position that some 'middle ground' had to be found. I was pointing out that ACA is exactly that. It is a compromise between government-run healthcare and private insurance and your objection to it seems to me that you aren't willing to compromise.

And no there is no real private option. Our main insurance is mandatory it is heavily subsidized and semi-independent. I can take out supplemental private insurance. I also want to ask why do you guys think size matters in judging efficiency. Not for nothing, Germany is several times bigger both in terms of populace and area. Yet they have a comparable result, so does Japan the UK, etc. etc. Some do a bit better, some worse. None of them come even close to the cost of the US this for mediocre results in comparison to other Western Nations. Why is size relevant only for the US.

size matters because it’s easier to govern smaller concerns and we have a huge issue with illegals and fraud and there is that pesky huge tuition to become a doctor. Doesn’t make sense to cap MD salaries after they paid so much to become MDs.

As I said Germany has huge issues, so do we for that matter with immigration. The US takes in about 50k, Germany alone took in over a million. As I said it doesn't really affect our healthcare.Germany: 20.8 million people with immigrant background | DW | 21.08.2019
It is an excuse. Your second argument is true, education is cheaper. Why not make it cheaper in the US if that's what it takes?

How can you force private universities to make it cheaper and it’s not immigrants but illegals. They cost us billions. If the Left were to agree to severe and strict deportation, stronger border security and taxing MDs at 5% to offset their tuition costs and lower comp. then I am all for UH.

 

[forkup]

Seems to me wishing a middle ground without having to make compromises isn't a middle ground either. Aca made sure that people could keep their private insurance and at the same time insured that everybody who wanted it could get insurance. That is a compromise is it not? Every healthcare plan is a balance between service and affordability. Making sure that healthy people are enrolled to cover the cost of the less healthy is part of that balance.

As I said I'm Belgian my wife is American I've seen both sides in action. Know first hand the advantages and drawbacks of both. Something tells me that's more than most can say.

And? In Belgium people do have the private option and that country is tiny. Explain why we cannot treat health insurance like we do auto insurance? Why must it be tied to our employers?

I didn't say anything of the sort. I was commenting on your position that some 'middle ground' had to be found. I was pointing out that ACA is exactly that. It is a compromise between government-run healthcare and private insurance and your objection to it seems to me that you aren't willing to compromise.

And no there is no real private option. Our main insurance is mandatory it is heavily subsidized and semi-independent. I can take out supplemental private insurance. I also want to ask why do you guys think size matters in judging efficiency. Not for nothing, Germany is several times bigger both in terms of populace and area. Yet they have a comparable result, so does Japan the UK, etc. etc. Some do a bit better, some worse. None of them come even close to the cost of the US this for mediocre results in comparison to other Western Nations. Why is size relevant only for the US.

size matters because it’s easier to govern smaller concerns and we have a huge issue with illegals and fraud and there is that pesky huge tuition to become a doctor. Doesn’t make sense to cap MD salaries after they paid so much to become MDs.

As I said Germany has huge issues, so do we for that matter with immigration. The US takes in about 50k, Germany alone took in over a million. As I said it doesn't really affect our healthcare.Germany: 20.8 million people with immigrant background | DW | 21.08.2019
It is an excuse. Your second argument is true, education is cheaper. Why not make it cheaper in the US if that's what it takes?

How can you force private universities to make it cheaper and it’s not immigrants but illegals. They cost us billions. If the Left were to agree to severe and strict deportation, stronger border security and taxing MDs at 5% to offset their tuition costs and lower comp. then I am all for UH.

Simple give funds to alternative universities that offer the same degrees. As to the rest, for every report that espouses cost off illegal immigration, I can give one that cites benefits. Not only that US immigration numbers are insufficient to keep up with the baby boomers retiring.Number of U.S. retired workers receiving Social Security 2018 | Statista
How do you suggest to keep social security or military or anything running without a working population to support them?

 

[forkup]

Seems to me wishing a middle ground without having to make compromises isn't a middle ground either. Aca made sure that people could keep their private insurance and at the same time insured that everybody who wanted it could get insurance. That is a compromise is it not? Every healthcare plan is a balance between service and affordability. Making sure that healthy people are enrolled to cover the cost of the less healthy is part of that balance.

As I said I'm Belgian my wife is American I've seen both sides in action. Know first hand the advantages and drawbacks of both. Something tells me that's more than most can say.

And? In Belgium people do have the private option and that country is tiny. Explain why we cannot treat health insurance like we do auto insurance? Why must it be tied to our employers?

I didn't say anything of the sort. I was commenting on your position that some 'middle ground' had to be found. I was pointing out that ACA is exactly that. It is a compromise between government-run healthcare and private insurance and your objection to it seems to me that you aren't willing to compromise.

And no there is no real private option. Our main insurance is mandatory it is heavily subsidized and semi-independent. I can take out supplemental private insurance. I also want to ask why do you guys think size matters in judging efficiency. Not for nothing, Germany is several times bigger both in terms of populace and area. Yet they have a comparable result, so does Japan the UK, etc. etc. Some do a bit better, some worse. None of them come even close to the cost of the US this for mediocre results in comparison to other Western Nations. Why is size relevant only for the US.

size matters because it’s easier to govern smaller concerns and we have a huge issue with illegals and fraud and there is that pesky huge tuition to become a doctor. Doesn’t make sense to cap MD salaries after they paid so much to become MDs.

As I said Germany has huge issues, so do we for that matter with immigration. The US takes in about 50k, Germany alone took in over a million. As I said it doesn't really affect our healthcare.Germany: 20.8 million people with immigrant background | DW | 21.08.2019
It is an excuse. Your second argument is true, education is cheaper. Why not make it cheaper in the US if that's what it takes?

How can you force private universities to make it cheaper and it’s not immigrants but illegals. They cost us billions. If the Left were to agree to severe and strict deportation, stronger border security and taxing MDs at 5% to offset their tuition costs and lower comp. then I am all for UH.

Why by the way make UH conditioned on anything if you agree it would be cheaper. Is something good not good regardless if you consider something unrelated bad?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

And? In Belgium people do have the private option and that country is tiny. Explain why we cannot treat health insurance like we do auto insurance? Why must it be tied to our employers?

I didn't say anything of the sort. I was commenting on your position that some 'middle ground' had to be found. I was pointing out that ACA is exactly that. It is a compromise between government-run healthcare and private insurance and your objection to it seems to me that you aren't willing to compromise.

And no there is no real private option. Our main insurance is mandatory it is heavily subsidized and semi-independent. I can take out supplemental private insurance. I also want to ask why do you guys think size matters in judging efficiency. Not for nothing, Germany is several times bigger both in terms of populace and area. Yet they have a comparable result, so does Japan the UK, etc. etc. Some do a bit better, some worse. None of them come even close to the cost of the US this for mediocre results in comparison to other Western Nations. Why is size relevant only for the US.

size matters because it’s easier to govern smaller concerns and we have a huge issue with illegals and fraud and there is that pesky huge tuition to become a doctor. Doesn’t make sense to cap MD salaries after they paid so much to become MDs.

As I said Germany has huge issues, so do we for that matter with immigration. The US takes in about 50k, Germany alone took in over a million. As I said it doesn't really affect our healthcare.Germany: 20.8 million people with immigrant background | DW | 21.08.2019
It is an excuse. Your second argument is true, education is cheaper. Why not make it cheaper in the US if that's what it takes?

How can you force private universities to make it cheaper and it’s not immigrants but illegals. They cost us billions. If the Left were to agree to severe and strict deportation, stronger border security and taxing MDs at 5% to offset their tuition costs and lower comp. then I am all for UH.

Simple give funds to alternative universities that offer the same degrees. As to the rest, for every report that espouses cost off illegal immigration, I can give one that cites benefits. Not only that US immigration numbers are insufficient to keep up with the baby boomers retiring.Number of U.S. retired workers receiving Social Security 2018 | Statista
How do you suggest to keep social security or military or anything running without a working population to support them?

Great question. Number one the illegals come here legally and number two we need to raise the retirement age and how much working people contribute. Trusting the govt is a terrible idea. Same degrees? Harvard and Yale degrees aren’t the same as Arizona State and I would want an MD from an elite school if my life is on the line or more importantly my kids.

 

[forkup]

I didn't say anything of the sort. I was commenting on your position that some 'middle ground' had to be found. I was pointing out that ACA is exactly that. It is a compromise between government-run healthcare and private insurance and your objection to it seems to me that you aren't willing to compromise.

And no there is no real private option. Our main insurance is mandatory it is heavily subsidized and semi-independent. I can take out supplemental private insurance. I also want to ask why do you guys think size matters in judging efficiency. Not for nothing, Germany is several times bigger both in terms of populace and area. Yet they have a comparable result, so does Japan the UK, etc. etc. Some do a bit better, some worse. None of them come even close to the cost of the US this for mediocre results in comparison to other Western Nations. Why is size relevant only for the US.

size matters because it’s easier to govern smaller concerns and we have a huge issue with illegals and fraud and there is that pesky huge tuition to become a doctor. Doesn’t make sense to cap MD salaries after they paid so much to become MDs.

As I said Germany has huge issues, so do we for that matter with immigration. The US takes in about 50k, Germany alone took in over a million. As I said it doesn't really affect our healthcare.Germany: 20.8 million people with immigrant background | DW | 21.08.2019
It is an excuse. Your second argument is true, education is cheaper. Why not make it cheaper in the US if that's what it takes?

How can you force private universities to make it cheaper and it’s not immigrants but illegals. They cost us billions. If the Left were to agree to severe and strict deportation, stronger border security and taxing MDs at 5% to offset their tuition costs and lower comp. then I am all for UH.

Simple give funds to alternative universities that offer the same degrees. As to the rest, for every report that espouses cost off illegal immigration, I can give one that cites benefits. Not only that US immigration numbers are insufficient to keep up with the baby boomers retiring.Number of U.S. retired workers receiving Social Security 2018 | Statista
How do you suggest to keep social security or military or anything running without a working population to support them?

Great question. Number one the illegals come here legally and number two we need to raise the retirement age and how much working people contribute. Trusting the govt is a terrible idea. Same degrees? Harvard and Yale degrees aren’t the same as Arizona State and I would want an MD from an elite school if my life is on the line or more importantly my kids.

Most working-age people contribute, this includes illegals. Coming to the US legally is fine. The truth is that doing so is not easy because of strict quota which as I said aren't high enough to replace retirees. You can and should raise the retirement age but working literally to your death doesn't seem desirable either.

As for the second bit. The truth is that for most medical procedures you don't need the top 1 percentile of doctors in the world. You need someone competent. I will not argue that for something very unusual you have a better chance with the very best, I won't even argue that Ivy league schools have a higher percentage of those. But what you are saying is that you are willing to pay 50 percent more of your income compared to mine on healthcare and leave a substantial portion of your populace uninsured on the of chance you or your loved ones get hit with a rare medical condition. This seems a bad tradeoff.

I will throw out a radical idea. Maybe it is a good idea to not make doctors pay student loans for a significant portion of their careers so they can focus on providing the best care possible? I will illustrate this with something that is highly anecdotal but relevant nonetheless. My wife had a gastric bypass 2 years ago. From the time she had her first doctor's appointment until her surgery date less then 4 months passed. She had one full day of tests in between. The cost out of pocket would have been around 5k if I didn't have supplemental insurance. Her friend in the US had a very similar surgery, it took her dozens of doctor's visits, 1.5 years and well over 15k to do the same. Now the time it took you could nock of on it being anecdotal but if a surgeon here is confident to perform the surgery after one day of tests, I fail to see why so many doctors visits are required in the US for any other reason then the need to make it as expensive as possible.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

size matters because it’s easier to govern smaller concerns and we have a huge issue with illegals and fraud and there is that pesky huge tuition to become a doctor. Doesn’t make sense to cap MD salaries after they paid so much to become MDs.

As I said Germany has huge issues, so do we for that matter with immigration. The US takes in about 50k, Germany alone took in over a million. As I said it doesn't really affect our healthcare.Germany: 20.8 million people with immigrant background | DW | 21.08.2019
It is an excuse. Your second argument is true, education is cheaper. Why not make it cheaper in the US if that's what it takes?

How can you force private universities to make it cheaper and it’s not immigrants but illegals. They cost us billions. If the Left were to agree to severe and strict deportation, stronger border security and taxing MDs at 5% to offset their tuition costs and lower comp. then I am all for UH.

Simple give funds to alternative universities that offer the same degrees. As to the rest, for every report that espouses cost off illegal immigration, I can give one that cites benefits. Not only that US immigration numbers are insufficient to keep up with the baby boomers retiring.Number of U.S. retired workers receiving Social Security 2018 | Statista
How do you suggest to keep social security or military or anything running without a working population to support them?

Great question. Number one the illegals come here legally and number two we need to raise the retirement age and how much working people contribute. Trusting the govt is a terrible idea. Same degrees? Harvard and Yale degrees aren’t the same as Arizona State and I would want an MD from an elite school if my life is on the line or more importantly my kids.

Most working-age people contribute, this includes illegals. Coming to the US legally is fine. The truth is that doing so is not easy because of strict quota which as I said aren't high enough to replace retirees. You can and should raise the retirement age but working literally to your death doesn't seem desirable either.

As for the second bit. The truth is that for most medical procedures you don't need the top 1 percentile of doctors in the world. You need someone competent. I will not argue that for something very unusual you have a better chance with the very best, I won't even argue that Ivy league schools have a higher percentage of those. But what you are saying is that you are willing to pay 50 percent more of your income compared to mine on healthcare and leave a substantial portion of your populace uninsured on the of chance you or your loved ones get hit with a rare medical condition. This seems a bad tradeoff.

I will throw out a radical idea. Maybe it is a good idea to not make doctors pay student loans for a significant portion of their careers so they can focus on providing the best care possible? I will illustrate this with something that is highly anecdotal but relevant nonetheless. My wife had a gastric bypass 2 years ago. From the time she had her first doctor's appointment until her surgery date less then 4 months passed. She had one full day of tests in between. The cost out of pocket would have been around 5k if I didn't have supplemental insurance. Her friend in the US had a very similar surgery, it took her dozens of doctor's visits, 1.5 years and well over 15k to do the same. Now the time it took you could nock of on it being anecdotal but if a surgeon here is confident to perform the surgery after one day of tests, I fail to see why so many doctors visits are required in the US for any other reason then the need to make it as expensive as possible.

I live in Boston where we have the best hospitals in the world I would argue. My parents are older and retired but refuse to move because of the great doctors and hospitals we have. That is not so in other states. I am Ok with revamping our broken healthcare system. I think it sucks but until we fix the high cost of becoming a doctor we cannot move to UH. Additionally look at LASIK and cosmetic surgery, neither is covered by insurance but the costs have gone way down because more MDs entered the marketplace and naturally costs for procedures diminished. I do not believe our Govt is very good at managing entitlements why would I trust them with healthcare. And people are living longer so they would not work til their death. Raise the retirement age to 70 for all those under 40 and to 72 for all those under 30.

 

[forkup]

As I said Germany has huge issues, so do we for that matter with immigration. The US takes in about 50k, Germany alone took in over a million. As I said it doesn't really affect our healthcare.Germany: 20.8 million people with immigrant background | DW | 21.08.2019
It is an excuse. Your second argument is true, education is cheaper. Why not make it cheaper in the US if that's what it takes?

How can you force private universities to make it cheaper and it’s not immigrants but illegals. They cost us billions. If the Left were to agree to severe and strict deportation, stronger border security and taxing MDs at 5% to offset their tuition costs and lower comp. then I am all for UH.

Simple give funds to alternative universities that offer the same degrees. As to the rest, for every report that espouses cost off illegal immigration, I can give one that cites benefits. Not only that US immigration numbers are insufficient to keep up with the baby boomers retiring.Number of U.S. retired workers receiving Social Security 2018 | Statista
How do you suggest to keep social security or military or anything running without a working population to support them?

Great question. Number one the illegals come here legally and number two we need to raise the retirement age and how much working people contribute. Trusting the govt is a terrible idea. Same degrees? Harvard and Yale degrees aren’t the same as Arizona State and I would want an MD from an elite school if my life is on the line or more importantly my kids.

Most working-age people contribute, this includes illegals. Coming to the US legally is fine. The truth is that doing so is not easy because of strict quota which as I said aren't high enough to replace retirees. You can and should raise the retirement age but working literally to your death doesn't seem desirable either.

As for the second bit. The truth is that for most medical procedures you don't need the top 1 percentile of doctors in the world. You need someone competent. I will not argue that for something very unusual you have a better chance with the very best, I won't even argue that Ivy league schools have a higher percentage of those. But what you are saying is that you are willing to pay 50 percent more of your income compared to mine on healthcare and leave a substantial portion of your populace uninsured on the of chance you or your loved ones get hit with a rare medical condition. This seems a bad tradeoff.

I will throw out a radical idea. Maybe it is a good idea to not make doctors pay student loans for a significant portion of their careers so they can focus on providing the best care possible? I will illustrate this with something that is highly anecdotal but relevant nonetheless. My wife had a gastric bypass 2 years ago. From the time she had her first doctor's appointment until her surgery date less then 4 months passed. She had one full day of tests in between. The cost out of pocket would have been around 5k if I didn't have supplemental insurance. Her friend in the US had a very similar surgery, it took her dozens of doctor's visits, 1.5 years and well over 15k to do the same. Now the time it took you could nock of on it being anecdotal but if a surgeon here is confident to perform the surgery after one day of tests, I fail to see why so many doctors visits are required in the US for any other reason then the need to make it as expensive as possible.

I live in Boston where we have the best hospitals in the world I would argue. My parents are older and retired but refuse to move because of the great doctors and hospitals we have. That is not so in other states. I am Ok with revamping our broken healthcare system. I think it sucks but until we fix the high cost of becoming a doctor we cannot move to UH. Additionally look at LASIK and cosmetic surgery, neither is covered by insurance but the costs have gone way down because more MDs entered the marketplace and naturally costs for procedures diminished. I do not believe our Govt is very good at managing entitlements why would I trust them with healthcare. And people are living longer so they would not work til their death. Raise the retirement age to 70 for all those under 40 and to 72 for all those under 30.

I'm going to bed, had a tough week. It's been nice talking to you today and hope we can continue. I'll leave you with this. You don't trust the government? I get it you are a conservative. I can only speak for my country but it seems to me that the healthcare system I live under is superior in terms of availability, efficiency and yes quality, it is government-run or nearly so. Can I suggest that you look past the prejudices in this instance and look at objective results? I'm not a Commie, idealist or snowflake, I consider myself a pragmatist. To me, some things are not meant to be for-profit, health is one of those. I don't think the government is a fix-all but you can't argue with results IMO.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

How can you force private universities to make it cheaper and it’s not immigrants but illegals. They cost us billions. If the Left were to agree to severe and strict deportation, stronger border security and taxing MDs at 5% to offset their tuition costs and lower comp. then I am all for UH.

Simple give funds to alternative universities that offer the same degrees. As to the rest, for every report that espouses cost off illegal immigration, I can give one that cites benefits. Not only that US immigration numbers are insufficient to keep up with the baby boomers retiring.Number of U.S. retired workers receiving Social Security 2018 | Statista
How do you suggest to keep social security or military or anything running without a working population to support them?

Great question. Number one the illegals come here legally and number two we need to raise the retirement age and how much working people contribute. Trusting the govt is a terrible idea. Same degrees? Harvard and Yale degrees aren’t the same as Arizona State and I would want an MD from an elite school if my life is on the line or more importantly my kids.

Most working-age people contribute, this includes illegals. Coming to the US legally is fine. The truth is that doing so is not easy because of strict quota which as I said aren't high enough to replace retirees. You can and should raise the retirement age but working literally to your death doesn't seem desirable either.

As for the second bit. The truth is that for most medical procedures you don't need the top 1 percentile of doctors in the world. You need someone competent. I will not argue that for something very unusual you have a better chance with the very best, I won't even argue that Ivy league schools have a higher percentage of those. But what you are saying is that you are willing to pay 50 percent more of your income compared to mine on healthcare and leave a substantial portion of your populace uninsured on the of chance you or your loved ones get hit with a rare medical condition. This seems a bad tradeoff.

I will throw out a radical idea. Maybe it is a good idea to not make doctors pay student loans for a significant portion of their careers so they can focus on providing the best care possible? I will illustrate this with something that is highly anecdotal but relevant nonetheless. My wife had a gastric bypass 2 years ago. From the time she had her first doctor's appointment until her surgery date less then 4 months passed. She had one full day of tests in between. The cost out of pocket would have been around 5k if I didn't have supplemental insurance. Her friend in the US had a very similar surgery, it took her dozens of doctor's visits, 1.5 years and well over 15k to do the same. Now the time it took you could nock of on it being anecdotal but if a surgeon here is confident to perform the surgery after one day of tests, I fail to see why so many doctors visits are required in the US for any other reason then the need to make it as expensive as possible.

I live in Boston where we have the best hospitals in the world I would argue. My parents are older and retired but refuse to move because of the great doctors and hospitals we have. That is not so in other states. I am Ok with revamping our broken healthcare system. I think it sucks but until we fix the high cost of becoming a doctor we cannot move to UH. Additionally look at LASIK and cosmetic surgery, neither is covered by insurance but the costs have gone way down because more MDs entered the marketplace and naturally costs for procedures diminished. I do not believe our Govt is very good at managing entitlements why would I trust them with healthcare. And people are living longer so they would not work til their death. Raise the retirement age to 70 for all those under 40 and to 72 for all those under 30.

I'm going to bed, had a tough week. It's been nice talking to you today and hope we can continue. I'll leave you with this. You don't trust the government? I get it you are a conservative. I can only speak for my country but it seems to me that the healthcare system I live under is superior in terms of availability, efficiency and yes quality, it is government-run or nearly so. Can I suggest that you look past the prejudices in this instance and look at objective results? I'm not a Commie, idealist or snowflake, I consider myself a pragmatist. To me, some things are not meant to be for-profit, health is one of those. I don't think the government is a fix-all but you can't argue with results IMO.

I am an Independent. I do not trust the Govt to do anything well. Unfortunately. I wish it were different. If healthcare is not supposed to be for profit then why is the cost to become a doctor so high?

 

[Markle]

I'm going to bed, had a tough week. It's been nice talking to you today and hope we can continue. I'll leave you with this. You don't trust the government? I get it you are a conservative. I can only speak for my country but it seems to me that the healthcare system I live under is superior in terms of availability, efficiency and yes quality, it is government-run or nearly so. Can I suggest that you look past the prejudices in this instance and look at objective results? I'm not a Commie, idealist or snowflake, I consider myself a pragmatist. To me, some things are not meant to be for-profit, health is one of those. I don't think the government is a fix-all but you can't argue with results IMO.

Maybe I missed it but where do you live? If Canada, I have proven that you have inferior availability and quality.

You don't like a for-profit health system. What country has developed more new life saving and life-extending drugs, medical procedures, and technology than the United States?

 

[forkup]

Simple give funds to alternative universities that offer the same degrees. As to the rest, for every report that espouses cost off illegal immigration, I can give one that cites benefits. Not only that US immigration numbers are insufficient to keep up with the baby boomers retiring.Number of U.S. retired workers receiving Social Security 2018 | Statista
How do you suggest to keep social security or military or anything running without a working population to support them?

Great question. Number one the illegals come here legally and number two we need to raise the retirement age and how much working people contribute. Trusting the govt is a terrible idea. Same degrees? Harvard and Yale degrees aren’t the same as Arizona State and I would want an MD from an elite school if my life is on the line or more importantly my kids.

Most working-age people contribute, this includes illegals. Coming to the US legally is fine. The truth is that doing so is not easy because of strict quota which as I said aren't high enough to replace retirees. You can and should raise the retirement age but working literally to your death doesn't seem desirable either.

As for the second bit. The truth is that for most medical procedures you don't need the top 1 percentile of doctors in the world. You need someone competent. I will not argue that for something very unusual you have a better chance with the very best, I won't even argue that Ivy league schools have a higher percentage of those. But what you are saying is that you are willing to pay 50 percent more of your income compared to mine on healthcare and leave a substantial portion of your populace uninsured on the of chance you or your loved ones get hit with a rare medical condition. This seems a bad tradeoff.

I will throw out a radical idea. Maybe it is a good idea to not make doctors pay student loans for a significant portion of their careers so they can focus on providing the best care possible? I will illustrate this with something that is highly anecdotal but relevant nonetheless. My wife had a gastric bypass 2 years ago. From the time she had her first doctor's appointment until her surgery date less then 4 months passed. She had one full day of tests in between. The cost out of pocket would have been around 5k if I didn't have supplemental insurance. Her friend in the US had a very similar surgery, it took her dozens of doctor's visits, 1.5 years and well over 15k to do the same. Now the time it took you could nock of on it being anecdotal but if a surgeon here is confident to perform the surgery after one day of tests, I fail to see why so many doctors visits are required in the US for any other reason then the need to make it as expensive as possible.

I live in Boston where we have the best hospitals in the world I would argue. My parents are older and retired but refuse to move because of the great doctors and hospitals we have. That is not so in other states. I am Ok with revamping our broken healthcare system. I think it sucks but until we fix the high cost of becoming a doctor we cannot move to UH. Additionally look at LASIK and cosmetic surgery, neither is covered by insurance but the costs have gone way down because more MDs entered the marketplace and naturally costs for procedures diminished. I do not believe our Govt is very good at managing entitlements why would I trust them with healthcare. And people are living longer so they would not work til their death. Raise the retirement age to 70 for all those under 40 and to 72 for all those under 30.

I'm going to bed, had a tough week. It's been nice talking to you today and hope we can continue. I'll leave you with this. You don't trust the government? I get it you are a conservative. I can only speak for my country but it seems to me that the healthcare system I live under is superior in terms of availability, efficiency and yes quality, it is government-run or nearly so. Can I suggest that you look past the prejudices in this instance and look at objective results? I'm not a Commie, idealist or snowflake, I consider myself a pragmatist. To me, some things are not meant to be for-profit, health is one of those. I don't think the government is a fix-all but you can't argue with results IMO.

I am an Independent. I do not trust the Govt to do anything well. Unfortunately. I wish it were different. If healthcare is not supposed to be for profit then why is the cost to become a doctor so high?

It isn't in my country where colleges are... government-run. Costs of Studying and Living in Belgium - MastersPortal.com
Isn't that kind of the point?

 

[JoeB131]

I live in MA and to me it’s stupid to force the healthy to buy something they are unlikely to use to pay for the sick. I am not a Republican or a Romney fan. I think it should be mostly private pay with catastrophic insurance available like car insurance is now. Should not go through your employer and should not be nationalized. We are all entitled to our opinions, even you. No opinion is stupid but the person who provides it could be, such as you.

Barbie, if we all had to negotiate for insurance individually, none of us could afford insurance. The young and healthy wouldn't buy it because they felt they didn't need it, and the old and sickly couldn't afford it because the premiums would be more money than they could make.

Employer -based health insurance evolved through wage controls imposed during WWII (When we had a labor shortage and companies were poaching each others workers). After the War, all the countries that didn't have National Health Insurance instituted it except for ours...

The Car Insurance analogy is silly. Every last one of us is going to get sick and die at some point. In fact, most health care spending is "End of Life" spending. The vast majority of us don't get into serious accidents in our cars. The kind where you have to replace the whole vehicle.

Final point- the only reason why the Car Insurance system works as well as it does is because most states MANDATE that you buy at least liability insurance. If you are paying for your car on a financial plan, the banks will INSIST you get replacement insurance for that vehicle if it is totaled. IN short, the concept of "just buy what you need" doesn't work for something like cars, it certainly won't work for health care.

 

[JoeB131]

Cute, your "source" is a pay-site one has to register with to read from 2011.

I had no problem opening it... and the best you could come up with were the Koch-Suckers at the Heritage Foundation.

Tort reform didn't work in Texas... that's the point. It just made it easier for the doctors to get away with malpractice.

And STILL, you have nothing, whatsoever, to support your childish accusation. I state FACTS, you continue to post.... Come back when you grow up and have something to support your failed opinions.

again, we realize you are a racist ********** who thinks that a system where poor people of color die sooner is okay. I mean, you don't need to remind us you are an awful human being... We've figured that out.

 

[JoeB131]

And? In Belgium people do have the private option and that country is tiny. Explain why we cannot treat health insurance like we do auto insurance? Why must it be tied to our employers?

Hooo-boy.

Okay. Here's why we can't treat health insurance like car insurance.

First, the only reason why the Auto insurance system works is because it's not voluntary. If you drive a car, you are required to not only have insurance, but you are required to have insurance that covers you in case the other guy isn't. If you still owe money on the car, you are required to insure that car for its replacement value. Furthermore, the car insurance companies can raise your rates if you have accidents. I just had my first accident in 15 years, I expect my insurance rate to go up, even though the damage to both vehicles was minor.

If we ran health insurance like that, we'd mandate that not only would you be forced to buy insurance, but you would be charged more for that insurance every time you went into the doctor for a cold.

Second, health care is preventative.... you stay healthy by having regular physicals, vaccinations, lifestyle advice. In short, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. But if you treated health insurance like Car insurance, you'd be penalized for checkups, so you'd be less likely to do them.

Finally, there's frequency. There are 6 million car accidents a year... out of 272 million motor vehicles. roughly 2% of cars are involved in an accident each year.

Out of 300 million Americans, there were 880 million hospital visits. In short, every American is going to a hospital or doctors office 3 times a year on average. Of course, if you are healthy you don't go as often, if you are sickly you go more often.