Universal background checks... really?

[2aguy]

Voting isn't a right.

Would you deny a gun to the same people you would deny the vote?

We do.

Permanent residents can own firearms, but they can't vote.

Felons? The mentally frazzled? Would you deny them both guns and votes?

Not permanently.

How would you determine who should be denied guns and votes?

Arrests by police and conviction in courts........you know...due process..... And we can already do this under existing law.

Please explain why, after we arrest repeat gun offenders, that democrat judges keep letting them out on bond and out of prison with short sentences....then go on to blame normal people who don't use their legal guns for crime....

 

[M14 Shooter]

Why not ban the semi automatic, as they were under Clinton??

Why do you think that will accomplish anything?
View attachment 277297
View attachment 277299

Maybe then, you all should not glorify guns....

Re: the Clinton gun ban: I accept your concession.

enough is enough.... do something!

Indeed!
- Carry
- Train
- Shoot back

 

[2aguy]

Why not ban the semi automatic, as they were under Clinton??

Why do you think that will accomplish anything?

View attachment 277297
View attachment 277299

Maybe then, you all should not glorify guns, the AR--15 in particular or those guns that look like it, or act like it, and these loony tune murderers wouldn't be so enamored with how fast and well it kills human beings? All over the net, are legal gun owners constantly showing off their stash, their collections in pictures.... or boasting on internet boards about their guns.... as if it makes their cocks big and fat....

enough is enough.... do something! And it starts with YOU, responsible gun owners to manage the rest of the ilk, that are not responsible, that are getting their hands on the AR-15'S for mass murder purposes.

The only ones glorifying the AR-15 is you asshats...... you advertise it for shooters with every mass shooting and every political speech by your democrat politicians....

We aren't responsible when democrat judges give Bond to repeat gun offenders and short prison sentences for repeat gun offenders...that's on you and them.....we are not responsible when democrat prosecutors bargain away the gun charge instead of giving the perp 10 years....we are not responsible when democrat politicians cut the sentences for gun crimes...that is on you and them....

 

[OldLady]

why should gun shops have to go thru back ground checks for buyers and those selling at gun shows not have to do the same, with whom they are selling to?

It makes the Gun Shops background requirements useless, unless background checks are universal, imo.

It's not just gun shows. People sell guns all the time, by taking an ad in the swap sheet or just word of mouth. THOSE are the transfers that often end up being really troublesome. Like the guy who probably sold his AR to Ator. Now I know we can't enforce a background check law on those kinds of transactions, but we can require them and if the gun goes on to be used in commiting a crime, the seller should bear equal responsibility with the perp. IMO.

 

[2aguy]

why should gun shops have to go thru back ground checks for buyers and those selling at gun shows not have to do the same, with whom they are selling to?

It makes the Gun Shops background requirements useless, unless background checks are universal, imo.

How many times do you have to be told.....all gun sellers at gun shows have to do background checks.

Private property owners can sell their private property without a background check, they can do that in the parking lot, across the street or at a local Denny's.....

You don't know what you are talking about.....

Do you understand that criminals do not buy their guns at gun shows or from private sellers?

yep.


Gun show loophole is a political term in the United States referring to the sale of firearms by private sellers, including those done at gun shows, that do not meet federal background check requirements. This is dubbed the private sale exemption or "secondary market".

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why not ban the semi automatic, as they were under Clinton??


Aurora: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Texas Church: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
Santa Fe High School: AR-15
El Passo: AR-15
Dayton: AR-15
Odessa: AR-15

And that is a lie....... all licensed gun sellers must do a federal background check. If you sell your private property you do not have to do a background check.....

And that list leaves out the majority of mass shootings where pistols were used...you moron.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The only ones glorifying the AR-15 is you asshats.....

Anti-gun loons are unable to argue with substance, so they must argue with fallacious appeals to emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.
The idea that Clinton's 1994 AWB" must" be reinstated is but one example.

 

[candycorn]

As well as the police interview part

Why do you believe someone should be forced to demonstrate to the state a "good reason" for the exercise of his right?

Ask Rigby

You can't answer the question because you don't have an answer, or because you don't understand the question?

I would say the former.

So, you cannot tell us -why- you believe what you believe, just that you believe what you believe.
Compelling.

I was quoting Newsweek’s piece on the restrictions the English have on gun ownership. I wasn’t stating my opinion dingus.

 

[2aguy]

Every developed nation has people withmental health problems, violent video games and movies, depressed kids.

Only the US has the 2nd Amendment and a PAC dedicated to eliminating any restrictions on buying firearms.

So we have weekly mass shootings

That actually is totally untrue.
It is actually much easier to buy firearms in all other countries compared to the US, except maybe Japan.
The US has over 10,000 firearms laws, and most are complex federal laws, like it being illegal to even drive by a school with a firearm in the trunk of your car.
In other countries you may have to register or license, but that is much less complex than the finger printing and background check you have to do in the US.
All you have to do in the UK, France, Germany, etc., is to join a club and you then are guaranteed approval.
In places like Switzerland and Israel, the government is giving out guns for free, and almost mandating people be armed.

That is the opposite of what I've read from almost every other source. Where are you getting this information? I'd be real interested in a link.

This from Newsweek:


View attachment 277209

Rigby seems to be forgetting the "show good reason to own a firearm" part.

As well as the police interview part

Moron, the Pulse Night Club shooter went through 3 interviews with trained FBI interrogators who thought he might be a muslim terrorist.....they also did a complete, FBI background check and did an under cover approach with an agent....he also passed an extensive background check for his job and a background check for each gun he purchased....

You don't understand the issue.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It's not just gun shows. People sell guns all the time, by taking an ad in the swap sheet or just word of mouth. THOSE are the transfers that often end up being really troublesome.

And there's not a single thing you can do about them.

Now I know we can't enforce a background check law on those kinds of transactions, but we can require them and if the gun goes on to be used in commiting a crime, the seller should bear equal responsibility with the perp. IMO.

How will the state prove who sold him the gun?

 

[candycorn]

All of Lanza’s weapons were legally bought? Right?

Lanza murdered his mother and stole her rifle
How do you think this supports your position?

What did he murder her with?

Another one of her guns

Correct. The guns shouldn’t have been in the house with someone diagnosed with mental disorders.

Let us know when you change the law that allows the state to seize your guns because someone else has a "mental disorder".

To answer your question:
Yes - all the weapons Lanza used were legally bought.
They were stolen from his dead mother.

Seize?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Why do you believe someone should be forced to demonstrate to the state a "good reason" for the exercise of his right?

Ask Rigby

You can't answer the question because you don't have an answer, or because you don't understand the question?

I would say the former.

So, you cannot tell us -why- you believe what you believe, just that you believe what you believe.
Compelling.

I was quoting Newsweek’s piece on the restrictions the English have on gun ownership.

Ahhh. Ok.
So?

 

[2aguy]

why should gun shops have to go thru back ground checks for buyers and those selling at gun shows not have to do the same, with whom they are selling to?

It makes the Gun Shops background requirements useless, unless background checks are universal, imo.

It's not just gun shows. People sell guns all the time, by taking an ad in the swap sheet or just word of mouth. THOSE are the transfers that often end up being really troublesome. Like the guy who probably sold his AR to Ator. Now I know we can't enforce a background check law on those kinds of transactions, but we can require them and if the gun goes on to be used in commiting a crime, the seller should bear equal responsibility with the perp. IMO.

THOSE are the transfers that often end up being really troublesome.

WRong.....you don't know what you are talking about....criminals do not buy guns from these sales...they don't trust the people who might be under cover police officers....they use friends and family and known associates who either can pass any background check, or steal the guns.....

 

[M14 Shooter]

Lanza murdered his mother and stole her rifle
How do you think this supports your position?

What did he murder her with?

Another one of her guns

Correct. The guns shouldn’t have been in the house with someone diagnosed with mental disorders.

Let us know when you change the law that allows the state to seize your guns because someone else has a "mental disorder".
To answer your question:
Yes - all the weapons Lanza used were legally bought.
They were stolen from his dead mother.

Seize?

Yes. Seize. How else do you remove the guns from Lanza's house, but seize them?

 

[2aguy]

Why do you believe someone should be forced to demonstrate to the state a "good reason" for the exercise of his right?

Ask Rigby

You can't answer the question because you don't have an answer, or because you don't understand the question?

I would say the former.

So, you cannot tell us -why- you believe what you believe, just that you believe what you believe.
Compelling.

I was quoting Newsweek’s piece on the restrictions the English have on gun ownership. I wasn’t stating my opinion dingus.

The British police have stated they can't stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into their country, you doofus....

Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK


Police and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

“Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.


Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:

“We’re doing a lot to fight back against it,” Brough said, adding that compared to other European countries, the availability in the UK was relatively lower.
==========

Crime will continue to rise until us bobbies are released from the shackles of the PC police

The national crime figures released this week confirmed what my colleagues and I have known for some time. Violent crime is out of control and criminals now see certain cities and towns across the country as places where they can act with impunity.

This is not just about gangland battles in the likes of Brixton or Tottenham. What we are facing is a national crisis, fast spreading across the provinces.

In the West Midlands, for example, we had a murder rate last year on a par with that of London. Gun crime in our region is running at similarly high levels and violent thugs in my area have developed a

 

[Care4all]

And that list leaves out the majority of mass shootings where pistols were used...you moron.

Ask yourself, why didn't all of those mass shootings with pistols turn out to be MASS MURDERS?

 

[M14 Shooter]

And that list leaves out the majority of mass shootings where pistols were used...you moron.

Ask yourself, why didn't all of those mass shootings with pistols turn out to be MASS MURDERS?

They did. All of them.

 

[Andylusion]

Progressives want Background checks on all private sales. Why? Who pays for that? Paying for an right?
That is definitely unconstitutional and absolutely ridiculous.

Any type of waiting period on an right? I don’t think so, definitely unconstitutional and absolutely ridiculous.
No one should have to wait more than seconds to purchase their firearms.

Obviously universal background checks I have nothing to do with firearms… Like always... it’s always been about control.
The ******* spineless gun grabbers can pound sand... lol

I still don't even understand how they think this will do anything.
My brother-in-law met a guy off the side of the highway at a rest stop. He gave some money, and got a gun.
Now how exactly to you pretend to try and enforce a universal background check on that? Ridiculous.

It can't be enforced without universal registration -- which is the next step.
No one wonders why the anti-gun loons want universal registration.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Canada try universal registration, and find that after some years, not a single crime in the entire country, was prevented by it? It did nothing.

Of course I grasp that this will not stop the loony left, but you would think that most people can learn from the experiences of others.

 

[2aguy]

And that list leaves out the majority of mass shootings where pistols were used...you moron.

Ask yourself, why didn't all of those mass shootings with pistols turn out to be MASS MURDERS?

Moron.....

Virginia Tech...32 killed, 2 pistols.

Luby's Cafe....24 killed 2 pistols.

Fort Hood shooting, 14 dead, 33 injured one pistol, one revolver.

Russian Polytechnic shooting....20 dead, 40 injured, tube fed, 5 shot, pump action shotgun.

Navy Yard shooting....12 dead...pump action shotgun.

 

[OldLady]

Felons? The mentally frazzled? Would you deny them both guns and votes?

Not permanently.

How would you determine who should be denied guns and votes?

And let me just add, I don't think a person who we don't want owning a gun or voting should be walking the streets freely.

When a person has a restraining order (real or imagined for violence) they are often times temporarily removed from possessing firearms. The Restraining order always has a time period where it runs out. I doubt if we need to be locking those people up. Just keep them away from firearms for a short time until the cool off period ends.

Many are imagined and bullshit.
.Violence or fear of violence is like racism now. It can mean anything and judges tend to err on the side of so called safety when signing those orders.

I mean all your girlfriend or wife has to say is you raised your voice, looked cross-eyed at her, or you tapped her on the butt because she didn't iron your shirt correctly....

Why would you raise your voice or tap her on the butt because she didn't iron your shirt correctly? Iron your own fuckin' shirt.

 

[2aguy]

Progressives want Background checks on all private sales. Why? Who pays for that? Paying for an right?
That is definitely unconstitutional and absolutely ridiculous.

Any type of waiting period on an right? I don’t think so, definitely unconstitutional and absolutely ridiculous.
No one should have to wait more than seconds to purchase their firearms.

Obviously universal background checks I have nothing to do with firearms… Like always... it’s always been about control.
The ******* spineless gun grabbers can pound sand... lol

I still don't even understand how they think this will do anything.
My brother-in-law met a guy off the side of the highway at a rest stop. He gave some money, and got a gun.
Now how exactly to you pretend to try and enforce a universal background check on that? Ridiculous.

It can't be enforced without universal registration -- which is the next step.
No one wonders why the anti-gun loons want universal registration.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Canada try universal registration, and find that after some years, not a single crime in the entire country, was prevented by it? It did nothing.

Of course I grasp that this will not stop the loony left, but you would think that most people can learn from the experiences of others.

Yep....

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up

15 million guns.....1 billion dollars...and it didn't work....



The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million. In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

So the government was spending the bulk of its money — about $17 million of the Firearms Center’s $82 million annual budget — trying to register long guns when the statistics showed they weren’t the problem.

There was also the question of how registering guns was supposed to reduce crime and suicide in the first place. From 1997 to 2005, only 13% of the guns used in homicides were registered. Police studies in Canada estimated that 2-16% of guns used in crimes were stolen from legal owners and thus potentially in the registry. The bulk of the guns, Canadian officials concluded, were unregistered weapons imported illegally from the U.S. by criminal gangs.

Finally in 2011, conservatives led by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper voted to abolish the long-gun registry and destroy all its records. Liberals argued the law had contributed to the decline in gun homicides since it was passed. But Mauser notes that gun homicides have actually been rising in recent years, from 151 in 1999 to 173 in 2009, as violent criminal gangs use guns in their drug turf wars and other disputes. As in the U.S., most gun homicides in Canada are committed by young males, many of them with criminal records. In the majority of homicides involving young males, the victim and the killer are know each other.



----------

3/24/18



Ten Myths Of The Long Gun Registry | Canadian Shooting Sports Association


Myth #4: Police investigations are aided by the registry.
Doubtful. Information contained in the registry is incomplete and unreliable. Due to the inaccuracy of the information, it cannot be used as evidence in court and the government has yet to prove that it has been a contributing factor in any investigation. Another factor is the dismal compliance rate (estimated at only 50%) for licensing and registration which further renders the registry useless. Some senior police officers have stated as such: “The law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them. None of the guns we know to have been used were registered ... the money could be more effectively used for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety initiatives.” Former Toronto Police Chief Julian Fantino, January 2003.




3/24/18



https://www.quora.com/In-countries-...olved-at-least-in-part-by-use-of-the-registry



Tracking physical objects that are easily transferred with a database is non-trivial problem. Guns that are stolen, loaned, or lost disappear from the registry. The data is has to be manually entered and input mistakes will both leak guns and generate false positive results.

Registries don’t solve straw-purchases. If someone goes through all of the steps to register a gun and simply gives it to a criminal that gun becomes unregistered. Assuming the gun is ever recovered you could theoretically try and prosecute the person who transferred the gun to the criminal, but you aren’t solving the crime you were trying to. Remember that people will prostitute themselves or even their children for drugs, so how much deterrence is there in a maybe-get-a-few-years for straw purchasing?

Registries are expensive. Canada’s registry was pitched as costing the taxpayer $2 million and the rest of the costs were to be payed for with registration fees. It was subject to massive cost overruns that were not being met by registrations fees. When the program was audited in 2002 the program was expected to cost over $1 billion and that the fee revenue was only expected to be $140 million.

No gun recovered. If no gun was recovered at the scene of the crime then your registry isn’t even theoretically helping, let alone providing a practical tool. You need a world where criminals meticulously register their guns and leave them at the crime scene for a registry to start to become useful.

Say I have a registered gun, and a known associate of mine was shot and killed. Ballistics is able to determine that my known associate was killed with the same make and model as the gun I registered. A registry doesn’t prove that my gun was used, or that I was the one doing the shooting. I was a suspect as soon as we said “known associate” and the police will then being looking for motive and checking for my alibi.