Under Bush US's 400 richest doubled their wealth

[sealybobo]

How about taxing income less?
How about that?

How about the government leave us all more of the money we earn

how about that?

We're all onboard for that.

Even liberals.

But today's liberals also think that we need to pay as we go, rather than the Republican plan which was to spend and borrow, borrow and spend.

which is also the current Dimocat plan no?

The Democrats are going to fix what the GOP neglected for 8 years.

We are also going to undo the wrongs you have done.

So the stimulous package is only half of the solution. The other half is to close all the tax break loopholes, re-regulate, socialize whoever we bailout & possibly we have to freeze some bank accounts.

 

[Skull Pilot]

even though the money in the investment portfolio makes a job possible?

without the capital for business to invest in capital improvements, equipment and R&D, that assembly line wrench turner would not have an assembly line on which to work would he?

And if you are sitting on a desserte island with ten thousand pounds of gold and piles of money and NO WORKERS?

How rich are you?

Just as the wealthy provide capital for investment, so too do workers create wealth for future investment.

I know you imagine that the wealthy carry the workers, but that's a very jaundiced view of economics.

The SOURCE of wealth is always the labor which it took to produce it, sport.

Either the intellectual work to devise what tasks will be done, or the physical/intellectual work to do the tasks, but in both cases, it was the actual WORK which created the wealth.

the source of wealth is the value the market places on the end result of labor and not the labor itself. if it were the labor itself then we could all just dig ditches and fill them up again and we would all be rich.

300 people working 40 hours a week to produce something no one wants is not producing wealth.

if you spend 100 dollars on a chair, you perceive the enjoyment and comfort that chair gives you to be worth more than the 100 dollars or you wouldn't buy it. Does it matter to you if it took one man 10 hours to make the chair or 3 people 120 hours to make the chair. The labor involved is NOT the reason you bought the chair.

 

[Truthmatters]

This is nothing but pure jealousy.

I was going to make a long post, but this pretty much sums it up perfectly. The rich get richer because they work at it, the poor stay poor because they sit on their ass bitching about the rich. Get off your lazy ******* ass people and go make some money.

I wanted to add to this a little. I work in a call center that supports a company that is in the financial industry. Occasionally we have bankers come in and they have classes where they learn more about our products and services. Sometimes these are fairly low level people like me, but sometimes they are pretty high up, it depends on the FI in question. Anyway, because I'm pretty knowledgeable I often get to sit with them and answer the questions they have. So, why do I mention all this?

I didn't grow up around anyone that could be considered rich, not even close. I used to have some of the same attitudes about them not working hard for their money, but I've had my mind changed by interacting with them. I am truly amazed how hard some of these people work, and the higher up they are the harder they work. You wouldn't believe the long hours they put in, and no one tells them to do it, and they don't ***** about doing it, they are simply driven. I think this makes Jsanders point very well... they aren't lazy and they don't make excuses, they just work their asses off.

The people you are meeting are not this 400.

I have no problems with wealthy people , I dont care if someone is living off daddys money.

I dont want them to RAPE my country financially and then give nothing back for all the roads ,bridges, police , schools that get used by them to keep their businesses going.

The wealthy use the infrastructure MORE because that is how their Money is made.

 

[editec]

How about taxing income less?
How about that?

How about the government leave us all more of the money we earn

how about that?

We're all onboard for that.

Even liberals.

But today's liberals also think that we need to pay as we go, rather than the Republican plan which was to spend and borrow, borrow and spend.

which is also the current Dimocat plan no?

Your delusion (and one I can't blame you for having since we've been living in a sea of propaganda for the last couple decades) is thatht eh DEMOCRATS on top of the heap are LIBERALS.

They are the B team of the superwealthy, not liberals.

No more than Bush II was a conservative.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We're all onboard for that.

Even liberals.

But today's liberals also think that we need to pay as we go, rather than the Republican plan which was to spend and borrow, borrow and spend.

which is also the current Dimocat plan no?

The Democrats are going to fix what the GOP neglected for 8 years.

We are also going to undo the wrongs you have done.

So the stimulous package is only half of the solution. The other half is to close all the tax break loopholes, re-regulate, socialize whoever we bailout & possibly we have to freeze some bank accounts.

and I haven't done any wrongs. I run a business and pay my taxes unlike your Dimocratic heroes.

you do realize the largest part of your beloved stimulus plan is for appropriations, otherwise known as earmarks, that will not stimulate anything.

do you realize that the infrastructure allotment is less than what was spent on construction last year and won't be spent until at least 2010?

there is no stimulus in the stimulus plan.

 

[Truthmatters]

How about taxing income less?
How about that?

How about the government leave us all more of the money we earn

how about that?

We're all onboard for that.

Even liberals.

But today's liberals also think that we need to pay as we go, rather than the Republican plan which was to spend and borrow, borrow and spend.

which is also the current Dimocat plan no?

How the hell else are we going to fix this mess you guys made?

 

[Skull Pilot]

We're all onboard for that.

Even liberals.

But today's liberals also think that we need to pay as we go, rather than the Republican plan which was to spend and borrow, borrow and spend.

which is also the current Dimocat plan no?

Your delusion (and one I can't blame you for having since we've been living in a sea of propaganda for the last couple decades) is thatht eh DEMOCRATS on top of the heap are LIBERALS.

They are the B team of the superwealthy, not liberals.

No more than Bush II was a conservative.

I have no delusions. I KNOW there is absolutely no difference between Dimocrats and Repudlicans when t comes to their absolute greed for my tax dollars and the corruption, graft and nepotism they are guilty of.

 

[del]

We're all onboard for that.

Even liberals.

But today's liberals also think that we need to pay as we go, rather than the Republican plan which was to spend and borrow, borrow and spend.

which is also the current Dimocat plan no?

How the hell else are we going to fix this mess you guys made?

"we"



damn, that's some funny stuff.

"we"

 

[editec]

Bloomberg.com: U.S.


Are you begining to get it?



Capital gains made up 63 percent of the richest 400 Americans’ adjusted gross income in 2006, or a combined $66.1 billion, according to the data. In all, the 400 wealthiest Americans reported a combined $105.3 billion of adjusted gross income in 2006, the most recent year for which the IRS has data.

“The big explosion in income for this group is clearly on the capital gains side, although there are also sharp increases in dividend and interest income,” said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic Policy and Research in Washington.

You mean the repeal Clinton signed:

Billionaire Sanford I. Weill, who according to Louis Uchitelle made "Citigroup into the most powerful financial institution since the House of Morgan a century ago," has what I call the Wall of Me leading to his office, which he has decorated with tributes to him, including a dozen framed magazine covers. A major trophy is the pen Bill Clinton used to sign the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, a move which allowed Weill to create Citigroup. Fittingly, Citigroup is a major contributor to guess which current Democratic Presidential candidate


When Bill Clinton gave that pen to Sanford Weill, it symbolized the ending of the twentieth century Democratic Party that had created the New Deal. Although the 1999 law did not repeal all of the banking Act of 1933, retaining the FDIC, it did once again allow banks to enter the securities business, becoming what some term "whole banks."

Do you get it yet?

Sweetie I have been saying this for over a year.

Phil Gramm was the guy who wrote GLB 1999 act which did this and I have said Clinton was an asshole for signing it.

This was a bill driven by the republicans and dreamed about for years, They wheeled and dealed Clinton and talk him into signing it in return for other things.

Hes an asshole for giving it up.

Bush and the entire republican party had YEARS to fix this , they didnt , they in fact stopped the states from trying to protect themselves with their own laws.

If Clinton is an asshole for signing it what does that make the Entire Republican party for dreaming it , making it happen and doing nothing when it was obviously screwing this country up?

The devil is in the DETAILS.

Since most of the people here on this board are into discussing THEORY, and worse, THEORY BASED ON BULLSHIT RATHER THAN WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON, they continue to be confused.

In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is thought a fool, amigo.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We're all onboard for that.

Even liberals.

But today's liberals also think that we need to pay as we go, rather than the Republican plan which was to spend and borrow, borrow and spend.

which is also the current Dimocat plan no?

How the hell else are we going to fix this mess you guys made?

Who are "you guys"

I am not a Repudlican. I am not a Dimocrat

There has never been a party or an administration that has done anything but make government bigger, more wasteful and more corrupt.

YOU GUYS actually think more of the same will "fix" things when all it will do is cost us all more.

 

[RodISHI]

This is true in a lot of what I have seen Amanda post... I give her a lot of credit... she appears to be a hard working young woman... with the proper attitude of people earning their way, not supporting a Robin Hood mentality

When the rich or white collar workers take from the poor this is okay though?

Come on guys when you use and abuse someone elses labor you are in effect a thief for the rich or the upper middleclass with investments.

When you use a poor man's lower credit score to justify higher insurance rates you effectively robbed from the poor to give to the rich. Low credit scores are not necessarily from non payment of bills. If you have not borrowed money you may have a lower credit score and therefore be charged extra by the rigged system that is now in place.

When credit companies make loans to people they now do not have enough to actually make timely payments and charge that extra 45 bucks a month for a ten dollar two day late payment you have basically allowed and assisted the rich to steal from the poor.

A poor family with two parents working 40 and 50 hour weeks are considered lazy by a few of the posters because they work at jobs that produce a product via a service industry that creates paper debt using other peoples money. And people wonder why this countries economy is in the shitter.

ok--how can a family with two regular incomes be considered poor ?

He works 50 hours a week at a brick factory grosses approx. $1,760.00 a month.
He drives 31 miles one way to work.
Her gross income is $1,120.00 she works at Sears in phone bank collections. Her job is 18 miles one way to work.

Take home after taxes between the two of them $2,554.00

They have two children. Live in a home with $68,000.00 in loans on it. The second was taken out to fix the leaky roof. ( actually the house is a dump)

House payments total per month $680.00
Child care per month $720.00
Utilties, elect, gas 12mo averaged $136.00 if payment is late there is an extra charge
Garbage $ 25.00
Water/sewer $ 34.00
Car payments for his used pickup $187.00 needs vehicle to get to work
Car payments her used mini van $268.00 needs vehicle to get to work
Car Ins $138.00 a legal requirement of course it has to be f/c since they have car loans.

Living cost monthly total without food, clothes, medical or medical ins w/ copay, fuel, vehicle breakdowns, etc... $1,948.00.

She was out of work and they still have those credit card bills/expenses from that time she was off work for 6 months.


Edited to include. The woman is on meds for depression so that is an extra cost. Does anyone wonder why?

 

[Truthmatters]

which is also the current Dimocat plan no?

How the hell else are we going to fix this mess you guys made?

Who are "you guys"

I am not a Repudlican. I am not a Dimocrat

There has never been a party or an administration that has done anything but make government bigger, more wasteful and more corrupt.

YOU GUYS actually think more of the same will "fix" things when all it will do is cost us all more.

From what I have known of you you have supported the Bush line.

It doesnt matter what name you call yourself , its what you support.

 

[Amanda]

I agree. But I don't think anyone on this thread is begruding high paid white collar workers. The vice presidents and presidents of bank aren't among the super wealthy or the trust fund babies. I know bank vice presidents. I think they're average salary is around a hundred grand. I bet if you googled the average salary of a bank president, it wouldn't be much more than 150K. Those people aren't fantastically wealthy. They're part of the wage earning class, albeit in the upper echelon.

White collar working people work their asses off. At least most of them do. I've been working seven days a week for the last month.

I don't think anyone on the thread was talking about white collar professionals.

The point is that a few thousand people own much of the nation's weatlh. The super wealthy investment class. People who don't have to earn a wage. Maybe some of them deserved it, maybe some of them worked 6 and 7 days a week to earn it. Maybe some of them inherited it. Maybe some of them live in a mansion, take it easy, and live off dividend income. Who knows?

The point is, I think, that when a nation reaches a certain point of income inequality, where most of the wealth and power is concentrated in a tiny minority of people, its dangerous. It leads to plutocracy. History proves it over and over. And our founding fathers knew this, and fought against a system gamed to protect the wealth in interests of a tiny minority of elites.

I thank you for your respectful response, I appreciate being able to have a civilized discussion.

I don't know how the super rich each got there, I'm sure some "earned" it and others had it handed to them, but it's still work to move your investments around, etc.

I think there's an underlying feeling of inequity here that is tainting the way the issue is seen. It was called jealousy earlier, but I'm not quite sure that's it exactly. I'm going to have to think about this more.

I'd like to hear more about why you think this concentration of wealth is dangerous.

 

[Red Dawn]

which is also the current Dimocat plan no?

Your delusion (and one I can't blame you for having since we've been living in a sea of propaganda for the last couple decades) is thatht eh DEMOCRATS on top of the heap are LIBERALS.

They are the B team of the superwealthy, not liberals.

No more than Bush II was a conservative.

I have no delusions. I KNOW there is absolutely no difference between Dimocrats and Repudlicans when t comes to their absolute greed for my tax dollars and the corruption, graft and nepotism they are guilty of.

I've never once seen you post a thread slamming republicans. Only democrats.

Please just stop with the bullshit that you're "independent" and hate republicans and democrats equally.

Every talking point you give is straight from the Rush Limbaugh show, and its obvious you have an affinity for republicans. What is this bullshit that bush supporters have that they are "independents" who never supported bush?

 

[Truthmatters]

which is also the current Dimocat plan no?

The Democrats are going to fix what the GOP neglected for 8 years.

We are also going to undo the wrongs you have done.

So the stimulous package is only half of the solution. The other half is to close all the tax break loopholes, re-regulate, socialize whoever we bailout & possibly we have to freeze some bank accounts.

and I haven't done any wrongs. I run a business and pay my taxes unlike your Dimocratic heroes.

you do realize the largest part of your beloved stimulus plan is for appropriations, otherwise known as earmarks, that will not stimulate anything.

do you realize that the infrastructure allotment is less than what was spent on construction last year and won't be spent until at least 2010?

there is no stimulus in the stimulus plan.

Where was all this concern for the infrastructure a year or so ago when I posted about it and was excoriated?

 

[Skull Pilot]

How the hell else are we going to fix this mess you guys made?

Who are "you guys"

I am not a Repudlican. I am not a Dimocrat

There has never been a party or an administration that has done anything but make government bigger, more wasteful and more corrupt.

YOU GUYS actually think more of the same will "fix" things when all it will do is cost us all more.

From what I have known of you you have supported the Bush line.

It doesnt matter what name you call yourself , its what you support.

you'd be wrong. as usual

somehow because i think we should all be paying less in taxes and the government should be smaller (the latter alone should tell you I support neither Dimocrats nor Repudlicans) That I am "for" Bush

you are thick aren't you. I guess you can't imagine that there are people that are neither Dimocrat nor Repudlican and actually can think for themselves rather than believing everything a ******* no good lying, corrupt politician tells you. (and if you haven't figured it out yet, ALL politicians are ******* no good lying and corrupt)

 

[Truthmatters]

You are a conservative and you have defended the Bush team in the past fella and everyone knows it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Who are "you guys"

I am not a Repudlican. I am not a Dimocrat

There has never been a party or an administration that has done anything but make government bigger, more wasteful and more corrupt.

YOU GUYS actually think more of the same will "fix" things when all it will do is cost us all more.

From what I have known of you you have supported the Bush line.

It doesnt matter what name you call yourself , its what you support.

you'd be wrong. as usual

somehow because i think we should all be paying less in taxes and the government should be smaller (the latter alone should tell you I support neither Dimocrats nor Repudlicans) That I am "for" Bush

you are thick aren't you. I guess you can't imagine that there are people that are neither Dimocrat nor Repudlican and actually can think for themselves rather than believing everything a ******* no good lying, corrupt politician tells you. (and if you haven't figured it out yet, ALL politicians are ******* no good lying and corrupt)

You're not fooling anyone. You don't "hate" republicans and "dimocrats" equally. Why even peddle that lie? Don't you believe in honesty?

You sound just like Rush Limbaugh on this thread. I would bet if anyone ever commissioned a poll on it, only a tiny, extremely small percentage of americans would agree that having half the nation's wealth in the hands of 400 people is good for the country.

You're probably among the 3 or 4% (along with Rush Limbagh) who think its a fine idea.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Your delusion (and one I can't blame you for having since we've been living in a sea of propaganda for the last couple decades) is thatht eh DEMOCRATS on top of the heap are LIBERALS.

They are the B team of the superwealthy, not liberals.

No more than Bush II was a conservative.

I have no delusions. I KNOW there is absolutely no difference between Dimocrats and Repudlicans when t comes to their absolute greed for my tax dollars and the corruption, graft and nepotism they are guilty of.

I've never once seen you post a thread slamming republicans. Only democrats.


Every talking point you give is straight from the Rush Limbaugh show, and its obvious you have an affinity for republicans. What is this bullshit that bush supporters have that they are "independents" who never supported bush?

the constant intentional misspelling of republican as REPUDLICAN hasn't given you a clue?

And right now we have a Dimocratic administration and everything I am criticizing is a Dimocratic proposal.

Show me where I have ever said that GW was other than a moron.

Please just stop with the bullshit that you're "independent" and hate republicans and democrats equally.

and i don't hate anyone. that's for you libbies to do.

I have constantly said both parties do nothing but make government larger, more expensive and more corrupt how you take that as being supportive of either party, Ill never know.

And I will be willing to bet you listen to Limbaugh more than I because I do not know his "talking points" because I never listen to him.

 

[Truthmatters]

It sure fits my predictions that eventually no one will admitt they were a Bush voter.


Dude go take a look at your old threads, none are attacking anyone but Dems.