Under Bush US's 400 richest doubled their wealth

[oreo]

who the hell is working here? Do you consider Capital Gains working?

Capital gains are very important to the middle class of this country. If you own a home & sell it, & make a profit, it's considered a capital gain. If someone has the guts to start a small business, it grows, it hires Americans--& they sell some stock or otherwise in that business to expand their business further, it's considered capital gain. 401K's, retirement accounts--sell at a profit--it's considered capital gain. In order to make a capital gain--it takes "risk".

So in answer to your question, yes capital gains work.

 

[Bern80]

Yeah, cause making money is ooooooh so evil.

Actually it is the making money on other peoples misery that is the evil portion.

And again if that represented how most or even close to half of how all businesses operated you may have a case. But what is on the news or even what happened to you, personal as it may be, does not constitute reality. But look who I'm talking to. Any employer who doesn't provide a living wage is imposing misery on their employees aren't they?

 

[RodISHI]

Yeah, cause making money is ooooooh so evil.

Actually it is the making money on other peoples misery that is the evil portion.

And again if that represented how most or even close to half of how all businesses operated you may have a case. But what is on the news or even what happened to you, personal as it may be, does not constitute reality. But look who I'm talking to. Any employer who doesn't provide a living wage is imposing misery on their employees aren't they?

It is nice to know you live in a perfect position Bern but not eveyone has that same thing of their family owning their own business.

Gee I suppose the news people are setting stages and showing people out of work, living on the streets, losing their homes and such just to agitate people like you right.

We have the foodstamp programs and all in the nation because people are just a bunch of "lazy assholes" in certain peoples opinions. In reality it has nothing to do with corporates enslaving people into a system that they own and operate. Just a bunch of free loaders sucking up the gravy train of the elite. How sad!

 

[American Horse]

Any employer who doesn't provide a living wage is imposing misery on their employees aren't they?

Your statement and use of the word "imposing" assumes the employee has no useful skills that he can sell to another employer or that he is unable to seek other employment. If that be the case his misery is in all likelihood self imposed by his own present or past actions.

 

[Care4all]

who the hell is working here? Do you consider Capital Gains working?

Capital gains are very important to the middle class of this country. If you own a home & sell it, & make a profit, it's considered a capital gain. If someone has the guts to start a small business, it grows, it hires Americans--& they sell some stock or otherwise in that business to expand their business further, it's considered capital gain. 401K's, retirement accounts--sell at a profit--it's considered capital gain. In order to make a capital gain--it takes "risk".

So in answer to your question, yes capital gains work.

-there is no capital gains tax paid if you sell your home and make a profit up to 250,000 on it...so on that you are wrong.

-there is no stock to sell or buy with the individual small business?

-401k's DO NOT get the tax break of capital gains, 401k's when you pull money out are taxed at earned income tax bracket rates, so....again, not true paying capital gains on that...

no, it takes gambling, for the most part...and being a high roller!
I guess that's the RIGHT person to reward, the gambler...

I don't think so....those gamblers just brought our country to its knees imo!

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well this is one teacher that has a 4.0 from University of Chicago in sociology and political science. A 4.0 in history from Elmhurst. A 4.0 MS in Ed. Admin from St. Francis.

I've held management position for AT&T, until I left to raise my children.

I was accepted to Northwestern Law, but chose a different path. So I think I can 'do', I choose to teach. Oh yeah, I sold insurance for awhile, won a trip too.

Are there teachers that couldn't cut it in other fields? Sure. But they had enough to get through Gen Ed and the rest. Some are better than others. Give me a person that wants to teach, has struggled themselves with academics, you've got the makings of a teacher that will help all of their kids excel.

maybe you teachers should learn how to take a joke and not be so defensive.

Maybe we can tell the difference? Clue.

that old "those who can't do..." thing has been around forever. It's so hackneyed as to be meaningless but every time a teacher hears it, they feel the need to post their grades.

It's the same with the ' "a"students work for "C" students" thing.

It's meaningless.

Lighten up.

 

[American Horse]

that old "those who can't do..." thing has been around forever. It's so hackneyed as to be meaningless but every time a teacher hears it, they feel the need to post their grades.

It's the same with the ' "a"students work for "C" students" thing.

It's meaningless.

Lighten up.

I thought it was worth adding since it is unique in that it carries the paradigm all the way through from education to the selling of insurance;
Here it is again:
Those who can ...do
Those who can't ....teach
Those who can't teach ....teach others to teach
Those who can't teach others to teach ....sell insurance
Is anyone familiar with this version?

 

[Skull Pilot]

that old "those who can't do..." thing has been around forever. It's so hackneyed as to be meaningless but every time a teacher hears it, they feel the need to post their grades.

It's the same with the ' "a"students work for "C" students" thing.

It's meaningless.

Lighten up.

I thought it was worth adding since it is unique in that it carries the paradigm all the way through from education to the selling of insurance;
Here it is again:
Those who can ...do
Those who can't ....teach
Those who can't teach ....teach others to teach
Those who can't teach others to teach ....sell insurance
Is anyone familiar with this version?

I always heard it was

those who can't teach....teach phys ed.

 

[editec]

Yes, here we go again...let's play the divide and conquer game so we can be good Americans who never really look at the sources of problems and we can feel ever so much better about ourselves, shall we?

So Repeat after me:

All teachers are incompetent

All cops are crooked

All lawyers are shysters

All beancounters don't understand how the money is made

All social workers are busybodies

All mechanics are crooks

All goernment workers are lazy

All factory workers are idiots

All Priests are pedophiles

All waitresses are sluts

All politicians are crooks

All Doctors are overpaid

All scientists are fools

All engineers are tools

I'm running out of steam, but you all get my drift.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yes, here we go again...let's play the divide and conquer game so we can be good Americans who never really look at the sources of problems and we can feel ever so much better about ourselves, shall we?

So Repeat after me:

All teachers are incompetent

All cops are crooked

All lawyers are shysters

All beancounters don't understand how the money is made

All social workers are busybodies

All mechanics are crooks

All goernment workers are lazy

All factory workers are idiots

All Priests are pedophiles

All waitresses are sluts

All politicians are crooks

All Doctors are overpaid

All scientists are fools

All engineers are tools

I'm running out of steam, but you all get my drift.

ah the over sensitizing of America

toughen up.

 

[American Horse]

who the hell is working here? Do you consider Capital Gains working?

Capital gains are very important to the middle class of this country. If you own a home & sell it, & make a profit, it's considered a capital gain. If someone has the guts to start a small business, it grows, it hires Americans--& they sell some stock or otherwise in that business to expand their business further, it's considered capital gain. 401K's, retirement accounts--sell at a profit--it's considered capital gain. In order to make a capital gain--it takes "risk".

So in answer to your question, yes capital gains work.

[If that home is a second home, it is a capital gain - inserted by A.H.]
no, it takes gambling, for the most part...and being a high roller!
I guess that's the RIGHT person to reward, the gambler...

I don't think so....those gamblers just brought our country to its knees imo!

Obama has said he will almost double the capital gains tax from 15% to 29%. I've also heard supporters of Obama say that it won't matter because there are no capital gains. FYI any property such as real estate (empty land which could be sold to build houses on) or stock originally bought at a price lower than it would fetch today represent capital gains. These original owners are representative of the broad population.

If they knew they could now sell those assets and not pay some higher rate they would not hold back. This seems to be what happened in the run-up to this last election. Consider that a piece of land with a sale value of $100,000 with little or no base cost (this is not at all rare) at the present 15% rate would need to be sold for $190,000 under Obama's proposed new Cap-gains rate to fetch the same net dollars under the lower rate. A person who bought GE stock for $300.00 in 1972 would have stock valued at 15,000 now with a cost basis of $300. and a capital gain of 14,700 with a tax of $4,250 at the 29% rate that Obama proposed, versus $2,200 at 15%. My own GE stock with those values went from $60,000 in 2000 to $15,000 a little later while waiting for Cap Gains to go to zero under Bush. People do base their buy/sell decisions on the C.G. tax rate.

What would happen on the sale of this "land"? (or any other capital asset with a similarly low cost basis) The seller would have that $100,000 to spend on some other improvement in their lives, employing some one to build or manufacture or provide that improvement. The buyer of the land would have been able to procure the real estate which would not otherwise have been available (except at a much higher price or not at all) and then develop the land into lots to sell for the construction of new homes providing work to the country's largest business sector, or for some “risky” commercial venture, but on a risk they willingly take to improve their future prospects. This same formula applies to other things subject to the capital gains tax. Vast amounts of valuable capital assets are tied up in this way. When many holders of these capital assets took into account what was promised by the Obama administration, they sold. Now the financial crisis limits opportunities going forward for many of those asset’s purchasers. Without government interference, those people could make decisions based on their present prospects and not on government largess, or policies.

As you may see, from the above facts, to tax takes wealth away from those who would actually provide capital to create jobs, places those jobs in the domain of government, making a greater and greater part of the population dependent on the government for projects for their livelihood. Take into account that 99% of US businesses are small businesses according to 2007 census figures:

* “In 2007, there were 27.2 million businesses in the United
States, according to Office of Advocacy estimates. Census
data show that there were 6.0 million firms with employees
and 20.4 million without employees in 2005. Small firms with
fewer than 500 employees represent 99.9 percent of the 27.2
million businesses (including both employers and nonem-
ployers), as the most recent data show there were slightly
more than 17,000 large businesses in 2005”.

*Source: Office of Advocacy estimates based on data from the U.S. Dept. of
Commerce, Bureau of the Census, and U.S. Dept. of Labor, Employment and
Training

..

 

[Care4all]

Capital gains are very important to the middle class of this country. If you own a home & sell it, & make a profit, it's considered a capital gain. If someone has the guts to start a small business, it grows, it hires Americans--& they sell some stock or otherwise in that business to expand their business further, it's considered capital gain. 401K's, retirement accounts--sell at a profit--it's considered capital gain. In order to make a capital gain--it takes "risk".

So in answer to your question, yes capital gains work.

[If that home is a second home, it is a capital gain - inserted by A.H.]
no, it takes gambling, for the most part...and being a high roller!
I guess that's the RIGHT person to reward, the gambler...

I don't think so....those gamblers just brought our country to its knees imo!

Obama has said he will almost double the capital gains tax from 15% to 29%. I've also heard supporters of Obama say that it won't matter because there are no capital gains. FYI any property such as real estate (empty land which could be sold to build houses on) or stock originally bought at a price lower than it would fetch today represent capital gains. These original owners are representative of the broad population.

If they knew they could now sell those assets and not pay some higher rate they would not hold back. This seems to be what happened in the run-up to this last election. Consider that a piece of land with a sale value of $100,000 with little or no base cost (this is not at all rare) at the present 15% rate would need to be sold for $190,000 under Obama's proposed new Cap-gains rate to fetch the same net dollars under the lower rate. A person who bought GE stock for $300.00 in 1972 would have stock valued at 15,000 now with a cost basis of $300. and a capital gain of 14,700 with a tax of $4,250 at the 29% rate that Obama proposed, versus $2,200 at 15%. My own GE stock with those values went from $60,000 in 2000 to $15,000 a little later while waiting for Cap Gains to go to zero under Bush. People do base their buy/sell decisions on the C.G. tax rate.

What would happen on the sale of this "land"? (or any other capital asset with a similarly low cost basis) The seller would have that $100,000 to spend on some other improvement in their lives, employing some one to build or manufacture or provide that improvement. The buyer of the land would have been able to procure the real estate which would not otherwise have been available (except at a much higher price or not at all) and then develop the land into lots to sell for the construction of new homes providing work to the country's largest business sector, or for some “risky” commercial venture, but on a risk they willingly take to improve their future prospects. This same formula applies to other things subject to the capital gains tax. Vast amounts of valuable capital assets are tied up in this way. When many holders of these capital assets took into account what was promised by the Obama administration, they sold. Now the financial crisis limits opportunities going forward for many of those asset’s purchasers. Without government interference, those people could make decisions based on their present prospects and not on government largess, or policies.

As you may see, from the above facts, to tax takes wealth away from those who would actually provide capital to create jobs, places those jobs in the domain of government, making a greater and greater part of the population dependent on the government for projects for their livelihood. Take into account that 99% of US businesses are small businesses according to 2007 census figures:

* “In 2007, there were 27.2 million businesses in the United
States, according to Office of Advocacy estimates. Census
data show that there were 6.0 million firms with employees
and 20.4 million without employees in 2005. Small firms with
fewer than 500 employees represent 99.9 percent of the 27.2
million businesses (including both employers and nonem-
ployers), as the most recent data show there were slightly
more than 17,000 large businesses in 2005”.

Can you please show us the Obama proposal to raise Capital Gains taxes and how it will work...?

How will obama double the capital gainrates? On who, if there is a who?

Care

 

[American Horse]

Can you please show us the Obama proposal to raise Capital Gains taxes and how it will work...?

How will obama double the capital gainrates? On who, if there is a who?

Care

Simply put Candidate Obama stated that he would propose increasing capital gains rates from the existing (then) rate of 15% to a rate of 29%, That would be an increase of (29/15=) factor 1.93 or 93% increase.

The who is every person in the US who owns capital assets not otherwise exempt from capital gains taxes. Although you will hear that there are no capital gains because of the huge stock market decline since September, this simply is not true, and only applies to stocks, (but certainly not all of those as I explained above with my GE stock) Any real property, land/acreage, buildings, factories and equipment (which have gone idle which could be put to new use creating jobs). Capital gains taxes are applied to all transfer of those asset values in dollars in a sale, which exceed the cost basis.

Consider some acreage inherited many years ago and used over the years to grow grass to be sold for hay, but over time, that being unprofitable, is finally not farmed at all. The owner would love to sell but the value has increased dramatically because of the scarcity of available land so that the value which can be deducted on the tax forms is very small compared to the sale price. If it had been farmed for profit, then improvements and maintenance costs would've already been expensed out and deductions taken, so that the sale price would almost comprise the amount to which the C.G. tax would be applied. A $100M sale at 15 pct yields $85M and a 29 pct tax yields $71M, an increase of $14,000 in taxes under the O's proposed rate. This difference becomes decisive for the owner.

In the case of real property, (even without improvements) for a person already retired and trying to scrape together some money to survive on in retirement years, this is significant. For the "developer" of whatever variety, the availability of the property to put to a new use hinges in part on the C.G. rate. If the seller is pressed to sell and the rate were even lowered that seller could discount the price enhancing the survivability of the buyers new business because of lower start up costs.

This scenario can be applied to any of the assets I listed in my paragraph #1, and the numbers for the dollars increase proportionally for the sale/purchase price. At any rate the dollars released by the sale of the property goes into the free market economy to further expand available assets for employment or for purchase of goods and services, instead of being locked up or going to goverment programs.

Most of the growth of our cities and town, if they are indeed growing relates to this model.

..

 

[Care4all]

Can you please show us the Obama proposal to raise Capital Gains taxes and how it will work...?

How will obama double the capital gainrates? On who, if there is a who?

Care

Simply put Candidate Obama stated that he would propose increasing capital gains rates from the existing (then) rate of 15% to a rate of 29%, That would be an increase of (29/15=) factor 1.93 or 93% increase.

The who is every person in the US who owns capital assets not otherwise exempt from capital gains taxes. Although you will hear that there are no capital gains because of the huge stock market decline since September, this simply is not true, and only applies to stocks, (but certainly not all of those as I explained above with my GE stock) Any real property, land/acreage, buildings, factories and equipment (which have gone idle which could be put to new use creating jobs). Capital gains taxes are applied to all transfer of those asset values in dollars in a sale, which exceed the cost basis.

Consider some acreage inherited many years ago and used over the years to grow grass to be sold for hay, but over time, that being unprofitable, is finally not farmed at all. The owner would love to sell but the value has increased dramatically because of the scarcity of available land so that the value which can be deducted on the tax forms is very small compared to the sale price. If it had been farmed for profit, then improvements and maintenance costs would've already been expensed out and deductions taken, so that the sale price would almost comprise the amount to which the C.G. tax would be applied. A $100M sale at 15 pct yields $85M and a 29 pct tax yields $71M, an increase of $14,000 in taxes under the O's proposed rate. This difference becomes decisive for the owner.

In the case of real property, (even without improvements) for a person already retired and trying to scrape together some money to survive on in retirement years, this is significant. For the "developer" of whatever variety, the availability of the property to put to a new use hinges in part on the C.G. rate. If the seller is pressed to sell and the rate were even lowered that seller could discount the price enhancing the survivability of the buyers new business because of lower start up costs.

This scenario can be applied to any of the assets I listed in my paragraph #1, and the numbers for the dollars increase proportionally for the sale/purchase price. At any rate the dollars released by the sale of the property goes into the free market economy to further expand available assets for employment or for purchase of goods and services, instead of being locked up or going to goverment programs.

Most of the growth of our cities and town, if they are indeed growing relates to this model.

..

Do you have a link for obama saying he would raise the capital gains tax to 29%....right now it is 15% for some with lesser income and 20% for others with higher income, or something like that....so it could be that the suggestion was to raise capital gain tax on those getting taxed at 20% now which would go to 29% and this would be a 30% increase for those capital gains monies over a certain amount.

Basically, IF, (and that is a BIG IF because you have yet to supply a link of him saying such, and in all honesty in this political world, you could have gotten this info from some right wing rag that is putting on a SPIN), Obama suggested what you said, raising the capital gains to 29%, it is probably on the people that were subject to the 20% tax rate and not the 15% tax rate...if i understand capital gains correctly.

I was not an Obama supporter, though i am a Democrat...but there needs to be more clarity in the capital gains hike that you CLAIM obama is going to do, before i get in to the being outraged mode....because i would be, if he was raising capital gains rates at this time, 93%.

Care

 

[American Horse]

Do you have a link for obama saying he would raise the capital gains tax to 29%....right now it is 15% for some with lesser income and 20% for others with higher income, or something like that...

I was not an Obama supporter, though i am a Democrat...but there needs to be more clarity in the capital gains hike that you CLAIM obama is going to do, before i get in to the being outraged mode....because i would be, if he was raising capital gains rates at this time, 93%.

Care

That was back during the campaign. I remember it well. Few of us presume he will do that now, with the current situation, so I am not saying that is what he is going to do at the present time. As of now my reading shows he would make an increase from 15 to about 22%.

You see that the increase is not just a 7% increase which would be only the rate increase, but would be an increase in taxes to the individual of 46.6 percent, being the increase in actual taxation they have to would endure.

I will do some searching of back posts and links to sources, but what comes to mind is articles in the Wall Street Journal, where I get most of my economic, financial, and tax information. WSJ files 3 months old are beyond recall for my subscription to their past editions.


..

 

[Bern80]

It is nice to know you live in a perfect position Bern but not eveyone has that same thing of their family owning their own business.

Actually my pay was cut by 10% last week. Guess that gives me the right to piss and moan, huh?

Gee I suppose the news people are setting stages and showing people out of work, living on the streets, losing their homes and such just to agitate people like you right.

Couple MSM axioms I guess you weren't they ARE liberal biased and bad news (i.e. people out of work) sells better than good news (companies that treat their employees well). I guess

We have the foodstamp programs and all in the nation because people are just a bunch of "lazy assholes" in certain peoples opinions. In reality it has nothing to do with corporates enslaving people into a system that they own and operate. Just a bunch of free loaders sucking up the gravy train of the elite. How sad!

Bad judgement, laziness, lack of ambition, unfullfilled potential, etc. Call it whatever you want. The fact remains there are two types of people in this world. People like you who blame everyone else for their problems, who don't hold themeselves accountable and believe it is the obligation of other to take care of them. Obviously there a lot of you. And people like me who get that the person with most control over my future is me and act accordingly.

 

[sealybobo]

.

Actually my pay was cut by 10% last week. Guess that gives me the right to piss and moan, huh?


No. You should be a good little german and do whatever the furher tells you to do.

Or a good house slave. Don't buck the system. You got it pretty good. At least you aren't out in the fields with the rest of us.

 

[RodISHI]

It is nice to know you live in a perfect position Bern but not eveyone has that same thing of their family owning their own business.

Actually my pay was cut by 10% last week. Guess that gives me the right to piss and moan, huh?

Gee I suppose the news people are setting stages and showing people out of work, living on the streets, losing their homes and such just to agitate people like you right.

Couple MSM axioms I guess you weren't they ARE liberal biased and bad news (i.e. people out of work) sells better than good news (companies that treat their employees well). I guess

We have the foodstamp programs and all in the nation because people are just a bunch of "lazy assholes" in certain peoples opinions. In reality it has nothing to do with corporates enslaving people into a system that they own and operate. Just a bunch of free loaders sucking up the gravy train of the elite. How sad!

Bad judgement, laziness, lack of ambition, unfullfilled potential, etc. Call it whatever you want. The fact remains there are two types of people in this world. People like you who blame everyone else for their problems, who don't hold themeselves accountable and believe it is the obligation of other to take care of them. Obviously there a lot of you. And people like me who get that the person with most control over my future is me and act accordingly.

Sure bad judgment in trusting a manufacturing company is not sending you something that was designed from the factory to fail. Or is that bad judgment that a judge would rule opposite of banker testimony in favor for a bank that his cousin was a CEO of that provided the bank and a company that made those internal parts on that designed to fail equipment? Sure, sure bern it's jsut a whiney thing I do because I made some bad decisions when I refused to sign off that I would not sue the bastards for what they did!

Or was it my bad decision to falsify documents on these loans?

Maybe it was my bad decision that they stole my dozer too! Or bad decisions for them sending out erroneous 1099's. Or how about my bad decision when the bank shorted my working capital by eighty grand so I could not rent a working machine when that one that was designed to fail from the factory got to me?

STFU when you have no clue as to what you are saying others have experienced.

 

[sealybobo]

It is nice to know you live in a perfect position Bern but not eveyone has that same thing of their family owning their own business.

Actually my pay was cut by 10% last week. Guess that gives me the right to piss and moan, huh?

Couple MSM axioms I guess you weren't they ARE liberal biased and bad news (i.e. people out of work) sells better than good news (companies that treat their employees well). I guess

We have the foodstamp programs and all in the nation because people are just a bunch of "lazy assholes" in certain peoples opinions. In reality it has nothing to do with corporates enslaving people into a system that they own and operate. Just a bunch of free loaders sucking up the gravy train of the elite. How sad!

Bad judgement, laziness, lack of ambition, unfullfilled potential, etc. Call it whatever you want. The fact remains there are two types of people in this world. People like you who blame everyone else for their problems, who don't hold themeselves accountable and believe it is the obligation of other to take care of them. Obviously there a lot of you. And people like me who get that the person with most control over my future is me and act accordingly.

Sure bad judgment in trusting a manufacturing company is not sending you something that was designed from the factory to fail. Or is that bad judgment that a judge would rule opposite of banker testimony in favor for a bank that his cousin was a CEO of that provided the bank and a company that made those internal parts on that designed to fail equipment? Sure, sure bern it's jsut a whiney thing I do because I made some bad decisions when I refused to sign off that I would not sue the bastards for what they did!

Or was it my bad decision to falsify documents on these loans?

Maybe it was my bad decision that they stole my dozer too! Or bad decisions for them sending out erroneous 1099's. Or how about my bad decision when the bank shorted my working capital by eighty grand so I could not rent a working machine when that one that was designed to fail from the factory got to me?

STFU when you have no clue as to what you are saying others have experienced.

Bern and most other right wingers NEVER see things from the people's perspectives.

Or, they always tend to want to defend the corporation.

But at least they are in the minority now.

 

[dilloduck]

Bern and most other right wingers NEVER see things from the people's perspectives.

Or, they always tend to want to defend the corporation.

But at least they are in the minority now.

Whose perspectives are they to see things from ? A sea urchin's ?