AND ! ! ! ! ! Jealous because no muslim will ever get one of those posts. Does not make him biased without evidence.
UN report on Gaza war likely to bolster international criminal court inquiry
- Thread starter montelatici
- Start date
AND ! ! ! ! ! Jealous because no muslim will ever get one of those posts. Does not make him biased without evidence.
AND ! ! ! ! ! Jealous because no muslim will ever get one of those posts. Does not make them biased without evidence.
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
I see your point.
You are going to argue that HAMAS and TERRORIST are not interchangeable. It is my experience that pro-Jihadist and pro-Fedayeen will go to extreme lengths to defend against the tag "terrorist."
To end this now, I'm not playing that game.
(SIDE NOTE on the Topic of Human Shields)
HAMAS firing from the vicinity of the UN Shelters using the Shelter to screen and shield against counter-fire. This is a real short video (about 45 sec) on the Topic.
Most Respectfully,
R
I see your point.
(COMMENT)
You are going to argue that HAMAS and TERRORIST are not interchangeable. It is my experience that pro-Jihadist and pro-Fedayeen will go to extreme lengths to defend against the tag "terrorist."
To end this now, I'm not playing that game.
(SIDE NOTE on the Topic of Human Shields)
HAMAS firing from the vicinity of the UN Shelters using the Shelter to screen and shield against counter-fire. This is a real short video (about 45 sec) on the Topic.
- A former UN Director in Gaza admits Hamas is using...
A former UN Director in Gaza admits Hamas is using civilians as human shields - YouTubeCached
A segment from a CBCnews interview (30/07/2014) with John Ging, The former Director of UNRWA Operations in Gaza.
Most Respectfully,
R
montelatici
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Based on what Mr. Ging actually said, it appears that the you tube you linked to may have been dubbed.
"UNITED NATIONS — A senior United Nations official on Thursday forcefully rebuffed suggestions that the organization’s lax security had allowed militants to use its facilities in Gaza as a weapons cache and expressed outrage that three of its schools had been hit by shelling in as many days this week, even though the Israeli military knew their precise locations.
John Ging, the director of operations for the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, said in an interview here that his organization had protested vigorously to both sides.
He added that the United Nations had given the Israeli military precise GPS locations of all 83 schools that were being used as shelters for 141,000 people who had fled their homes. On Tuesday, one school was hit, wounding one person. On Wednesday, another was hit, wounding five. On Thursday, 16 were killed, the majority women and children, at the school in Beit Hanoun."
“There is no justification for the loss of so many innocent civilian lives,” Mr. Ging said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/25/w...e-at-shelling-of-un-schools-in-gaza.html?_r=0
P F Tinmore
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UN Watch Statement, delivered by Col. Richard Kemp, October 16, 2009
UN Watch is an Israeli propaganda organization. Kemp reads Israel's script to the UN.
Nope ... it's a matter of security.
RoccoR
Gold Member
Fanger,
I take your word that as true when you essential say you are not engaged in some sort of ad hominem attack, and responding to arguments by attacking a person's character. I suggest that your suggestion is false --- but would be a popular concept among pro-Palestinians. This reinforces the emotion anti-Israeli beliefs and make deceptively bad arguments.
Your highlighted portions are telling:
Most Respectfully,
R
I take your word that as true when you essential say you are not engaged in some sort of ad hominem attack, and responding to arguments by attacking a person's character. I suggest that your suggestion is false --- but would be a popular concept among pro-Palestinians. This reinforces the emotion anti-Israeli beliefs and make deceptively bad arguments.
Your highlighted portions are telling:
- Friends of Israel
- is known as a friend of Israel and of the Israel Defense Forces.
- Israel’s main ally
- at the rightwing Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (Jinsa).
- defender of Israel in Cast Lead against the Goldstone report.
- defender of Israel after Cast Lead, and a member of the Friends of Israel initiative and defender of Israel in Cast Lead against the Goldstone report.
The U.N.’s Israel Inquisition
Another skewed report that blames the Jewish state for war crimes.
Wall Street Journal 24 June 2015
U.N. reports on Israel sometimes remind us of the classic Monty Python sketch “Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition!” with its screwball combination of comic ineptitude and malignant predictability. So it is with Monday’s inquisition, “Inquiry”—by the U.N. Human Rights Council on last summer’s war between Israel and its terrorist enemies in Gaza.
Another skewed report that blames the Jewish state for war crimes.
Wall Street Journal 24 June 2015
U.N. reports on Israel sometimes remind us of the classic Monty Python sketch “Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition!” with its screwball combination of comic ineptitude and malignant predictability. So it is with Monday’s inquisition, “Inquiry”—by the U.N. Human Rights Council on last summer’s war between Israel and its terrorist enemies in Gaza.
The 183-page report, from former New York state Justice Mary McGowan Davis and Senegalese lawyer Doudou Diene, purports to be even-handed by citing both Israel and Hamas for possible war crimes and violations of international law. That’s something of an achievement for the Council, which has a lopsided record of condemning Israel and whose current members include Qatar, Russia and Venezuela.
Yet the report is fundamentally an anti-Israel document. The bias begins with a preposterous claim that Israel continues to “occupy” Gaza, despite its 2005 withdrawal, on the theory that Israel has the capacity “to send troops within a reasonable time to make its power felt.” By that standard, the U.S. occupies Canada and the Bahamas.
Yet the report is fundamentally an anti-Israel document. The bias begins with a preposterous claim that Israel continues to “occupy” Gaza, despite its 2005 withdrawal, on the theory that Israel has the capacity “to send troops within a reasonable time to make its power felt.” By that standard, the U.S. occupies Canada and the Bahamas.
US: The UN Report on Israel War Crimes will not Go to Security Council
The Peninsula Qatar 24 June 2015
"We’re certainly going to read it, as we read all UN reports, but we challenge the very foundation upon which this report was written," Kirby said at a State Department briefing. "We reject the basis under which this particular commission of inquiry was established because of the very clear bias against Israel in it."
The Peninsula Qatar 24 June 2015
"We’re certainly going to read it, as we read all UN reports, but we challenge the very foundation upon which this report was written," Kirby said at a State Department briefing. "We reject the basis under which this particular commission of inquiry was established because of the very clear bias against Israel in it."
Huntley: The latest bit of nonsense from the U.N. on Israel
Chicago Sun Times 24 June 2015
Another day, another U.N. Human Rights Council report condemning Israel. This document, produced for an organization notorious for aiming half of its nation-based resolutions at the Jewish state, accused Israel of violating international law during the 2014 war in the Gaza Strip.
Chicago Sun Times 24 June 2015
Another day, another U.N. Human Rights Council report condemning Israel. This document, produced for an organization notorious for aiming half of its nation-based resolutions at the Jewish state, accused Israel of violating international law during the 2014 war in the Gaza Strip.
The U.N.’s Gaza Report Is Flawed and Dangerous
New York Time 24 June 2015
The report starts by attributing responsibility for the conflict to Israel’s “protracted occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip,” as well as the blockade of Gaza. Israel withdrew from Gaza 10 years ago. In 2007 it imposed a selective blockade only in response to attacks by Hamas and the import of munitions and military matériel from Iran. The conflict last summer, which began with a dramatic escalation in rocket attacks targeting Israeli civilians, was a continuation of Hamas’s war of aggression.
This only further compromises the integrity of the UN Human Rights Commission. And may actually support, more than detract, the position that the now held by Palestinian factions.New York Time 24 June 2015
The report starts by attributing responsibility for the conflict to Israel’s “protracted occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip,” as well as the blockade of Gaza. Israel withdrew from Gaza 10 years ago. In 2007 it imposed a selective blockade only in response to attacks by Hamas and the import of munitions and military matériel from Iran. The conflict last summer, which began with a dramatic escalation in rocket attacks targeting Israeli civilians, was a continuation of Hamas’s war of aggression.
Most Respectfully,
R
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
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Excellent question.
In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.
Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory.
Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory.
Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
That said, the Palestinians who normally lived in the territory that became Israel would automatically become citizens of Israel. This would include refugees. The return of refugees is not a question of immigration. It is returning to their place of citizenship.
There are two views on this.
The view of the "west" is that Israel is a legitimate state that was legally established in historic Palestine making the above applicable.
The view of the "east" is that Israel is an occupation of historic Palestine where the Palestinians would still be Palestinian citizens.
Either way the refugees have the right to return to their place of citizenship.
RoccoR
Gold Member
montelatici, P F Tinmore, et al,
WOW! I just don't know how to respond to this.
COL Richard Kemp, CBE (Most Excellent Order of the British Empire) for chivalry in the service of British democracy; --- he is his own man. And the CBC/Canada News Video is 100% authentic. The CBC News is one of the worlds most respected news source.
No one scripts COL Kemp and no one subverts CBCNews.
Mr Ging can criticize the Israeli inflicted civilian casualty rate, and still confirm that HAMAS was launch rockets and mortars in close proximity of these UN Shelters. They are entirely different and unrelated matters.
Most Respectfully,
R
WOW! I just don't know how to respond to this.
(COMMENT)
COL Richard Kemp, CBE (Most Excellent Order of the British Empire) for chivalry in the service of British democracy; --- he is his own man. And the CBC/Canada News Video is 100% authentic. The CBC News is one of the worlds most respected news source.
No one scripts COL Kemp and no one subverts CBCNews.
Mr Ging can criticize the Israeli inflicted civilian casualty rate, and still confirm that HAMAS was launch rockets and mortars in close proximity of these UN Shelters. They are entirely different and unrelated matters.
Most Respectfully,
R
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
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But everyone reads off the same script.
montelatici
Gold Member
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Kemp was not the former UN official nor was he in Gaza. Ging was.
RoccoR
Gold Member
P F Tinmore, et al,
There is no single "script." Each individual should be able to systematically look at the chain of events and the evidence as it is presented and draw their own conclusions.
Israel is not always right (but then who is). Israel does not always exercise sound and valid judgments (but then who does). During the course and duration of the Arab-Israeli War (however we define that) it is clear that a Israel has a developing and superior military force in comparison to it historical opponents. The (what they call a) Qualitative Military Edge (QME) is what allows Israel to inflict a string of successive and decisive victories over their historical opponents; even though Israel is usually out-numbered by a considerable margin. And, Israel usually has to engage the hostile Arab Aggressor with the forward edge of battle along a 260º arc --- from as many as five individual armies. Having successfully defended it sovereign integrity and citizenry from advancing aggressors in three major conflicts, there are still segments of the Arab Community that have not come to terms with the physical reality of State of Israel.
I often hear, both on this forum and elsewhere, that if: Israel lifts the Blockade and withdraws its settlements and forces from the West Bank, the conflict will end. Israel tested that theory in 2005 when they withdrew from the Gaza Strip. At that time, there was NO BLOCKADE. (I know that there are people who believe that there was always a Blockade around Gaza. That is not true.)
The 2005 (12 September) Israel disengagement operation (Operation Shevet Ahim) included the withdrawal of all Israeli Forces, the evacuation of settlers, and dismantlement of of the infrastructure. It marked the end of the "Effective Control of the Gaza Strip.
Right on the heels of the Disengagement (Completed 12 September 2005); within hour of the withdrawal, Palestinian Militants began firing rocket into Israel from Gaza, and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) from Gaza effect the Hadera Market bombing (October 26) and the second HaSharon Mall suicide bombing (5 December). Then there was the first PIJ bomb attack on the Rosh Ha'ir restaurant (19 January 2006) followed by a second coordinated attack on the same Rosh Ha'ir restaurant (17 April 2006) carried-out by the PIJ and the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (the Military Wing of West Bank Fatah).
The lesson did not go unnoticed. If you give the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) unrestrained freedom, it only allows HoAP better access to reconstitute a better equipped terrorist force. After disengagement, Rocket attacks increase. In 2007, a few thousand rockets and mortars had been launched into Israel, and HAMAS took control of the Gaza Strip; both Egypt and Israel closed their respective borders. Under the Oslo Accord, Israel is responsible for the security control over Gaza; including airspace and coastal waters.
The security containment of the Gaza Strip was an important factor in reducing hostile HAMAS activity against Israel; the security measures reflect the countermeasure to terrorist activity. As containment became more mature and effective and with the positive outcomes of Operation Cast Lead (27 December 2008 – 18 January 2009); by 2009 rockets hostile rocket fire into Israel dropped from 3,278 before the operation to 774 rocket launches in 2009. That represented a reduction of well over 75%.
As I look over this, I am compelled to remind you that security successes and the reduction in attacks is not due to a sign factor; but, the cocktail of factor that together form a strategic strategy.
Most Respectfully,
R
There is no single "script." Each individual should be able to systematically look at the chain of events and the evidence as it is presented and draw their own conclusions.
Israel is not always right (but then who is). Israel does not always exercise sound and valid judgments (but then who does). During the course and duration of the Arab-Israeli War (however we define that) it is clear that a Israel has a developing and superior military force in comparison to it historical opponents. The (what they call a) Qualitative Military Edge (QME) is what allows Israel to inflict a string of successive and decisive victories over their historical opponents; even though Israel is usually out-numbered by a considerable margin. And, Israel usually has to engage the hostile Arab Aggressor with the forward edge of battle along a 260º arc --- from as many as five individual armies. Having successfully defended it sovereign integrity and citizenry from advancing aggressors in three major conflicts, there are still segments of the Arab Community that have not come to terms with the physical reality of State of Israel.
(COMMENT)
I often hear, both on this forum and elsewhere, that if: Israel lifts the Blockade and withdraws its settlements and forces from the West Bank, the conflict will end. Israel tested that theory in 2005 when they withdrew from the Gaza Strip. At that time, there was NO BLOCKADE. (I know that there are people who believe that there was always a Blockade around Gaza. That is not true.)
The 2005 (12 September) Israel disengagement operation (Operation Shevet Ahim) included the withdrawal of all Israeli Forces, the evacuation of settlers, and dismantlement of of the infrastructure. It marked the end of the "Effective Control of the Gaza Strip.
Right on the heels of the Disengagement (Completed 12 September 2005); within hour of the withdrawal, Palestinian Militants began firing rocket into Israel from Gaza, and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) from Gaza effect the Hadera Market bombing (October 26) and the second HaSharon Mall suicide bombing (5 December). Then there was the first PIJ bomb attack on the Rosh Ha'ir restaurant (19 January 2006) followed by a second coordinated attack on the same Rosh Ha'ir restaurant (17 April 2006) carried-out by the PIJ and the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (the Military Wing of West Bank Fatah).
The lesson did not go unnoticed. If you give the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) unrestrained freedom, it only allows HoAP better access to reconstitute a better equipped terrorist force. After disengagement, Rocket attacks increase. In 2007, a few thousand rockets and mortars had been launched into Israel, and HAMAS took control of the Gaza Strip; both Egypt and Israel closed their respective borders. Under the Oslo Accord, Israel is responsible for the security control over Gaza; including airspace and coastal waters.
The security containment of the Gaza Strip was an important factor in reducing hostile HAMAS activity against Israel; the security measures reflect the countermeasure to terrorist activity. As containment became more mature and effective and with the positive outcomes of Operation Cast Lead (27 December 2008 – 18 January 2009); by 2009 rockets hostile rocket fire into Israel dropped from 3,278 before the operation to 774 rocket launches in 2009. That represented a reduction of well over 75%.
As I look over this, I am compelled to remind you that security successes and the reduction in attacks is not due to a sign factor; but, the cocktail of factor that together form a strategic strategy.
Most Respectfully,
R
Attachments
montelatici
Gold Member
- Feb 5, 2014
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- #113
The Palestinians have every right to be hostile, Rocco. Your cute little HoAP nomenclature just demonstrates your childishness vis-a-vis the Israeli Jew dispossession and oppression of a people.
RoccoR
Gold Member
montelatici, et al,
I never said thought he was.
I'm not sure who you think made that mistake. But you are correct.
vr,
R
I never said thought he was.
(COMMENT)
I'm not sure who you think made that mistake. But you are correct.
vr,
R
montelatici
Gold Member
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- #115
Go look upthread and you can see if you feel like it.
P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
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As usual you give the Israeli only perspective. You need to get off that narrow path and expand your knowledge.P F Tinmore, et al,
There is no single "script." Each individual should be able to systematically look at the chain of events and the evidence as it is presented and draw their own conclusions.
Israel is not always right (but then who is). Israel does not always exercise sound and valid judgments (but then who does). During the course and duration of the Arab-Israeli War (however we define that) it is clear that a Israel has a developing and superior military force in comparison to it historical opponents. The (what they call a) Qualitative Military Edge (QME) is what allows Israel to inflict a string of successive and decisive victories over their historical opponents; even though Israel is usually out-numbered by a considerable margin. And, Israel usually has to engage the hostile Arab Aggressor with the forward edge of battle along a 260º arc --- from as many as five individual armies. Having successfully defended it sovereign integrity and citizenry from advancing aggressors in three major conflicts, there are still segments of the Arab Community that have not come to terms with the physical reality of State of Israel.
(COMMENT)
I often hear, both on this forum and elsewhere, that if: Israel lifts the Blockade and withdraws its settlements and forces from the West Bank, the conflict will end. Israel tested that theory in 2005 when they withdrew from the Gaza Strip. At that time, there was NO BLOCKADE. (I know that there are people who believe that there was always a Blockade around Gaza. That is not true.)
The 2005 (12 September) Israel disengagement operation (Operation Shevet Ahim) included the withdrawal of all Israeli Forces, the evacuation of settlers, and dismantlement of of the infrastructure. It marked the end of the "Effective Control of the Gaza Strip.
Right on the heels of the Disengagement (Completed 12 September 2005); within hour of the withdrawal, Palestinian Militants began firing rocket into Israel from Gaza, and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) from Gaza effect the Hadera Market bombing (October 26) and the second HaSharon Mall suicide bombing (5 December). Then there was the first PIJ bomb attack on the Rosh Ha'ir restaurant (19 January 2006) followed by a second coordinated attack on the same Rosh Ha'ir restaurant (17 April 2006) carried-out by the PIJ and the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (the Military Wing of West Bank Fatah).
The lesson did not go unnoticed. If you give the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) unrestrained freedom, it only allows HoAP better access to reconstitute a better equipped terrorist force. After disengagement, Rocket attacks increase. In 2007, a few thousand rockets and mortars had been launched into Israel, and HAMAS took control of the Gaza Strip; both Egypt and Israel closed their respective borders. Under the Oslo Accord, Israel is responsible for the security control over Gaza; including airspace and coastal waters.
The security containment of the Gaza Strip was an important factor in reducing hostile HAMAS activity against Israel; the security measures reflect the countermeasure to terrorist activity. As containment became more mature and effective and with the positive outcomes of Operation Cast Lead (27 December 2008 – 18 January 2009); by 2009 rockets hostile rocket fire into Israel dropped from 3,278 before the operation to 774 rocket launches in 2009. That represented a reduction of well over 75%.
As I look over this, I am compelled to remind you that security successes and the reduction in attacks is not due to a sign factor; but, the cocktail of factor that together form a strategic strategy.
Most Respectfully,
R
RoccoR
Gold Member
montelatici, et al,
Here is where we differ.
I don't necessarily disagree. It is a matter of magnitude and intensity.
You see the Palestinians as oppressed and occupied. I'm not even sure that technically either is an applicable description. But International Law has not caught-up with that yet. I see the Palestinian as a contained hostile criminal element and a subversive and dangerous armed terrorist under the false flag of freedom fighter.
There is absolutely NO Question that the applicable path for the Palestinian to follow is:
Considering that the progressive development and codification of the following principles:
It is a very standard writing rule. Spell it out the first time, with the acronym in parenthesis immediately afterwards. There after just use the acronym.
Example for formal/professional writing:
Most Respectfully,
R
Here is where we differ.
(COMMENT)
I don't necessarily disagree. It is a matter of magnitude and intensity.
You see the Palestinians as oppressed and occupied. I'm not even sure that technically either is an applicable description. But International Law has not caught-up with that yet. I see the Palestinian as a contained hostile criminal element and a subversive and dangerous armed terrorist under the false flag of freedom fighter.
There is absolutely NO Question that the applicable path for the Palestinian to follow is:
Excerpt from: Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 2625 (XXV) ---- (A/RES/25/2625 24 October1970)
Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations
Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations
Considering that the progressive development and codification of the following principles:
- The principle that States shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations,
- The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,
- The duty not to intervene in matters within the domestic jurisdiction of any State, in accordance with the Charter,
- The duty of States to co-operate with one another in accordance with the Charter,
- The principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples,
- The principle of sovereign equality of States,
- The principle that States shall fulfil in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the Charter,
- I do not believe that the Arab-Palestinian has ever pursued peace. It is the case that in 1967, Israel never invaded Palestinian Territory:
- In the case of the West Bank the territory was sovereign to Jordan and the dispute resolve by treaty.
- In the case of the Gaza Strip the territory was under the Administration of the All Palestine Government, dissolve in 1959, and was succeeded by an Egyptian Military Governorship; the dispute resolved by treaty.
(COMMENT)
It is a very standard writing rule. Spell it out the first time, with the acronym in parenthesis immediately afterwards. There after just use the acronym.
Example for formal/professional writing:
First use: The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI or F.B.I.) is driven by intelligence gathering to enforce the law and provide national security.
Second use: The FBI has existed for more than 100 years
Second use: The FBI has existed for more than 100 years
EXCERPT Initialisms and Acronyms said:
Most Respectfully,
R
montelatici
Gold Member
- Feb 5, 2014
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- #119
There is an overriding principle that expulsion of a native population to promote the colonization of the land that the native people lived on is a crime.
RoccoR
Gold Member
montelatici,
You will have to point it out to me. I don't see where I said anything like that.
How the UN endangers the West
As Col. Richard Kemp, who gave a comprehensive briefing on his perception of the operations of the Israel Defense Forces to the U.N. Human Rights Council for the purpose of its report, mentioned in an interview with Israel Hayom last month, the U.N. Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict readily admitted to him that "they have no military experience or knowledge."
Israel Hayom · 6/15/2015
(COMMENT)
COL Kemp has given a number of presentation to various UN activities. But Id on't recall saying that he worked for the UN or that he was in Gaza. If I did, I was wrong.
vr.
R
You will have to point it out to me. I don't see where I said anything like that.
(REFERENCE)
How the UN endangers the West
As Col. Richard Kemp, who gave a comprehensive briefing on his perception of the operations of the Israel Defense Forces to the U.N. Human Rights Council for the purpose of its report, mentioned in an interview with Israel Hayom last month, the U.N. Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict readily admitted to him that "they have no military experience or knowledge."
Israel Hayom · 6/15/2015
(COMMENT)
COL Kemp has given a number of presentation to various UN activities. But Id on't recall saying that he worked for the UN or that he was in Gaza. If I did, I was wrong.
vr.
R
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