UN report on Gaza war likely to bolster international criminal court inquiry

[montelatici]

montelatici,

You will have to point it out to me. I don't see where I said anything like that.

Go look upthread and you can see if you feel like it.

(REFERENCE)

How the UN endangers the West
As Col. Richard Kemp, who

montelatici,

You will have to point it out to me. I don't see where I said anything like that.

Go look upthread and you can see if you feel like it.

(REFERENCE)

How the UN endangers the West
As Col. Richard Kemp, who gave a comprehensive briefing on his perception of the operations of the Israel Defense Forces to the U.N. Human Rights Council for the purpose of its report, mentioned in an interview with Israel Hayom last month, the U.N. Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict readily admitted to him that "they have no military experience or knowledge."
Israel Hayom · 6/15/2015

(COMMENT)

COL Kemp has given a number of presentation to various UN activities. But Id on't recall saying that he worked for the UN or that he was in Gaza. If I did, I was wrong.

vr.
R

a comprehensive briefing on his perception of the operations of the Israel Defense Forces to the U.N. Human Rights Council for the purpose of its report, mentioned in an interview with Israel Hayom last month, the U.N. Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict readily admitted to him that "they have no military experience or knowledge."
Israel Hayom · 6/15/2015

(COMMENT)

COL Kemp has given a number of presentation to various UN activities. But Id on't recall saying that he worked for the UN or that he was in Gaza. If I did, I was wrong.

vr.
R

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ"

"The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier Weizmann Tells Actions Committ Jewish Telegraphic Agency

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici,

You will have to point it out to me. I don't see where I said anything like that.

Go look upthread and you can see if you feel like it.

(REFERENCE)

How the UN endangers the West
As Col. Richard Kemp, who

montelatici,

You will have to point it out to me. I don't see where I said anything like that.

Go look upthread and you can see if you feel like it.

(REFERENCE)

How the UN endangers the West
As Col. Richard Kemp, who gave a comprehensive briefing on his perception of the operations of the Israel Defense Forces to the U.N. Human Rights Council for the purpose of its report, mentioned in an interview with Israel Hayom last month, the U.N. Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict readily admitted to him that "they have no military experience or knowledge."
Israel Hayom · 6/15/2015

(COMMENT)

COL Kemp has given a number of presentation to various UN activities. But Id on't recall saying that he worked for the UN or that he was in Gaza. If I did, I was wrong.

vr.
R

a comprehensive briefing on his perception of the operations of the Israel Defense Forces to the U.N. Human Rights Council for the purpose of its report, mentioned in an interview with Israel Hayom last month, the U.N. Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict readily admitted to him that "they have no military experience or knowledge."
Israel Hayom · 6/15/2015

(COMMENT)

COL Kemp has given a number of presentation to various UN activities. But Id on't recall saying that he worked for the UN or that he was in Gaza. If I did, I was wrong.

vr.
R

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ"

"The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier Weizmann Tells Actions Committ Jewish Telegraphic Agency

It is interesting that Israel supporters absolutely deny that Israel is a colonial project when the Zionists themselves stated it was many times.

 

[toastman]

montelatici,

You will have to point it out to me. I don't see where I said anything like that.

Go look upthread and you can see if you feel like it.

(REFERENCE)

How the UN endangers the West
As Col. Richard Kemp, who

montelatici,

You will have to point it out to me. I don't see where I said anything like that.

Go look upthread and you can see if you feel like it.

(REFERENCE)

How the UN endangers the West
As Col. Richard Kemp, who gave a comprehensive briefing on his perception of the operations of the Israel Defense Forces to the U.N. Human Rights Council for the purpose of its report, mentioned in an interview with Israel Hayom last month, the U.N. Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict readily admitted to him that "they have no military experience or knowledge."
Israel Hayom · 6/15/2015

(COMMENT)

COL Kemp has given a number of presentation to various UN activities. But Id on't recall saying that he worked for the UN or that he was in Gaza. If I did, I was wrong.

vr.
R

a comprehensive briefing on his perception of the operations of the Israel Defense Forces to the U.N. Human Rights Council for the purpose of its report, mentioned in an interview with Israel Hayom last month, the U.N. Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict readily admitted to him that "they have no military experience or knowledge."
Israel Hayom · 6/15/2015

(COMMENT)

COL Kemp has given a number of presentation to various UN activities. But Id on't recall saying that he worked for the UN or that he was in Gaza. If I did, I was wrong.

vr.
R

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ"

"The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier Weizmann Tells Actions Committ Jewish Telegraphic Agency

It is interesting that Israel supporters absolutely deny that Israel is a colonial project when the Zionists themselves stated it was many times.

Load of crap. Israel is a sovereign state. Calling it a colonial project is Palestinian propaganda.

BTW, you are always saying how Zionists are liars, yet you cherry pick certain comments of theirs. Very hypocritical.

 

[CMike]

There is an overriding principle that expulsion of a native population to promote the colonization of the land that the native people lived on is a crime.

They were not expelled by Israel. They left.


Also, Israel isn't a colony, it's a country.

 

[CMike]

montelatici,

You will have to point it out to me. I don't see where I said anything like that.

Go look upthread and you can see if you feel like it.

(REFERENCE)

How the UN endangers the West
As Col. Richard Kemp, who

montelatici,

You will have to point it out to me. I don't see where I said anything like that.

Go look upthread and you can see if you feel like it.

(REFERENCE)

How the UN endangers the West
As Col. Richard Kemp, who gave a comprehensive briefing on his perception of the operations of the Israel Defense Forces to the U.N. Human Rights Council for the purpose of its report, mentioned in an interview with Israel Hayom last month, the U.N. Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict readily admitted to him that "they have no military experience or knowledge."
Israel Hayom · 6/15/2015

(COMMENT)

COL Kemp has given a number of presentation to various UN activities. But Id on't recall saying that he worked for the UN or that he was in Gaza. If I did, I was wrong.

vr.
R

a comprehensive briefing on his perception of the operations of the Israel Defense Forces to the U.N. Human Rights Council for the purpose of its report, mentioned in an interview with Israel Hayom last month, the U.N. Commission of Inquiry on the 2014 Gaza Conflict readily admitted to him that "they have no military experience or knowledge."
Israel Hayom · 6/15/2015

(COMMENT)

COL Kemp has given a number of presentation to various UN activities. But Id on't recall saying that he worked for the UN or that he was in Gaza. If I did, I was wrong.

vr.
R

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ"

"The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier Weizmann Tells Actions Committ Jewish Telegraphic Agency

It is interesting that Israel supporters absolutely deny that Israel is a colonial project when the Zionists themselves stated it was many times.

A colony of what country?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, well --- I'm not sure we will ever agree on this plane. I suppose it is the difference in context.

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ"

"The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier Weizmann Tells Actions Committ Jewish Telegraphic Agency

It is interesting that Israel supporters absolutely deny that Israel is a colonial project when the Zionists themselves stated it was many times.

(COMMENT)

There was never a Colonial Project in the sense that the territory under the Mandate would experience the permanent full or partial political control of the Mandatory, or a distant Allied Power, and occupied by settlers from that country --- with the population of the territory retaining political ties with the distant parent state. You choose to apply a very strict and narrow view of the issue. And that is one interpretation of a colony.

Formal decolonialization did not arise until the adoption of the 1960 non-binding Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples [A/RES/15/1514 (XV)] and the focus on the remaining territories that might have been in Trust and still Non-Self-Governing Territories, under the parental rule. But this, in no way, was applicable to the situation in the Middle East. Israel by this time had exercise the right of self-determination, fought its war of independence, and became self-governing more than a decade before the adoption.

The Council of the League of Nations, Allied Powers, the Mandatory, and the Jewish themselves chose to see the move to the Palestinian territory as meaning that a group of people of one cultural group immigrating to and living in a foreign territory under Mandate which was not self-governing. In this sense, and the implementation of this definition of colonization, was the intended purpose behind the facilitation and encouragement of all Jewish immigration willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home. [Article 4 and Article 6, Mandate for Palestine]

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

There is an overriding principle that expulsion of a native population to promote the colonization of the land that the native people lived on is a crime.

They were not expelled by Israel. They left.


Also, Israel isn't a colony, it's a country.

1. The Palestinians were expelled.

"“There is no evidence to show that the Arab states and the AHC wanted a mass exodus or issued blanket orders or appeals to the Palestinians to flee their homes (though in certain areas the inhabitants of specific villages were ordered by Arab commanders or the AHC to leave, mainly for strategic reasons).” ("The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem", p. 129). On the contrary, anyone who fled was actually threatened with “severe punishment”. As for the broadcasts by Arab radio stations allegedly calling on people to flee, a detailed listening to recordings of their programmes of that period shows that the claims were invented for pure propaganda.

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

2. Israel is a self-described (by the Zionists themselves) colonial project. As early as 1899 it was a colonial project. (The United States is country and was a colonial project.)

New York Times June 19, 1899

Zionists planned to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times

 

[Phoenall]

P F TINMORE et al,

I always provide a link to the source or give a reference to some work and author. I generally set links off in BLUE as is the standard convention. I think I the article was highlighted in BLUE.

U.N. Agency That Runs School Hit in Gaza Employed Hamas and Islamic Jihad Members Fox News

The United Nations agency that administers a school in Gaza where dozens of civilians were killed by Israeli mortar fire last week has admitted to employing terrorists to work at its Palestinian schools in the past,...​

Do you have a link where the UN admits to employing terrorists or is this just a bullshit report?

The link is just Fox News say so. No source is mentioned and there is nothing in quotes.

(COMMENT)

The link I provided was to a Fox New Article:

In 2004, former UNRWA Commissioner-General Peter Hansen told the Canadian Broadcasting Company, "I am sure that there are Hamas members on the UNRWA payroll and I don't see that as a crime." He added, "We do not do political vetting and exclude people from one persuasion as against another."​

The article implies that you can be in HAMAS and work for the UNRWA. And HAMAS has a long standing policy of involving teachers.

It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses).
SOURCE: Article 15, HAMAS Covenant
​

Sometimes I just let the Headline and link intro speak for itself.

• Hamas Rejects UN Textbooks for Teaching Non-Violence ...
  matzav.com/hamas-rejects-un-textbooks-for-teaching-non-violence
  The Hamas government in Gaza accused UNRWA on Tuesday of unlawfully printing and disseminating school textbooks dealing with human rights in a way that offends ...

• Hamas Rejects UN Textbooks for ... - The Times of Israel
  Hamas bashes UNRWA s human rights curriculum The Times of Israel
  The Hamas government in Gaza accused a UN agency on Tuesday of unlawfully printing and disseminating school textbooks dealing with human rights in a way that offends ...

• New Palestinian high-school textbooks reject existence of ...
  Advertisement › News
  New Palestinian high-school textbooks reject existence of Israel, peace ... Hamasgovernment should not have to follow the agreements that Arafat signed.

Most Respectfully,
R

Look at the way I worded the question.

Do you have a link where the UN admits to employing terrorists or is this just a bullshit report?​

I don't believe they said that. It is my understanding that UNWRA does not designate Palestinian political parties as terrorists. That is just a name calling thing by Israel and its toadies. UNWRA may have admitted that they employ members of Hamas and the propaganda media changed that to employing terrorists to promote the agenda they are selling.

Remember the big media flap about Abbas saying that there will be no Jews in Palestine? What he actually said was that there would be no Israelis in Palestine. The propagandists changed that to no Jews to pimp their own agenda.

You see lies like that all over the place to dupe people into supporting Israel.

So this would mean that those Palestinians demanding the right of return to Israel would not be allowed to live in Palestine as they would automatically become Isrtaeli's. Or will you accept that he used the term Israeli instead of Jew for political reasons

Excellent question.

In international law, when a state is dissolved and new states are established, “the population follows the change of sovereignty in matters of nationality.”5 As a rule, therefore, citizens of the former state should automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state in which they had already been residing.

Nationality constitutes a legal bond that connects individuals with a specific territory, making them citizens of that territory.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel​

That said, the Palestinians who normally lived in the territory that became Israel would automatically become citizens of Israel. This would include refugees. The return of refugees is not a question of immigration. It is returning to their place of citizenship.

There are two views on this.

The view of the "west" is that Israel is a legitimate state that was legally established in historic Palestine making the above applicable.

The view of the "east" is that Israel is an occupation of historic Palestine where the Palestinians would still be Palestinian citizens.

Either way the refugees have the right to return to their place of citizenship.

Very inept duck to the question as the only authority is INTERNATIONAL LAW and that shows that Israel is a legitimate state. Unless you want to tell all the Islamic nations surrounding Israel that they are not legitimate as they were created out of the same International law.

And under International law the arab muslims don't have the right of return until Israel agrees to it. And because they refuse to accept one small stipulation they will never get it

 

[montelatici]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, well --- I'm not sure we will ever agree on this plane. I suppose it is the difference in context.

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ"

"The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier Weizmann Tells Actions Committ Jewish Telegraphic Agency

It is interesting that Israel supporters absolutely deny that Israel is a colonial project when the Zionists themselves stated it was many times.

(COMMENT)

There was never a Colonial Project in the sense that the territory under the Mandate would experience the permanent full or partial political control of the Mandatory, or a distant Allied Power, and occupied by settlers from that country --- with the population of the territory retaining political ties with the distant parent state. You choose to apply a very strict and narrow view of the issue. And that is one interpretation of a colony.

Formal decolonialization did not arise until the adoption of the 1960 non-binding Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples [A/RES/15/1514 (XV)] and the focus on the remaining territories that might have been in Trust and still Non-Self-Governing Territories, under the parental rule. But this, in no way, was applicable to the situation in the Middle East. Israel by this time had exercise the right of self-determination, fought its war of independence, and became self-governing more than a decade before the adoption.

The Council of the League of Nations, Allied Powers, the Mandatory, and the Jewish themselves chose to see the move to the Palestinian territory as meaning that a group of people of one cultural group immigrating to and living in a foreign territory under Mandate which was not self-governing. In this sense, and the implementation of this definition of colonization, was the intended purpose behind the facilitation and encouragement of all Jewish immigration willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home. [Article 4 and Article 6, Mandate for Palestine]

Most Respectfully,
R

You can rationalize it any way you want. It was a self-described (by the Zionists) colonial project as early as 1899. Just as Rhodesia was a colonial project, just as South Africa was a colonial project, just as Algeria was a colonial project. That it was able to subjugate the people on the land it colonized and declare independence before 1960 does not make any less of a colonial project than Rhodesia which declared independence in 1965.

 

[Phoenall]

The Palestinians have every right to be hostile, Rocco. Your cute little HoAP nomenclature just demonstrates your childishness vis-a-vis the Israeli Jew dispossession and oppression of a people.

And your islamocatholic Nazi propaganda shows that you are a moron

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

There is no single "script." Each individual should be able to systematically look at the chain of events and the evidence as it is presented and draw their own conclusions.

Israel is not always right (but then who is). Israel does not always exercise sound and valid judgments (but then who does). During the course and duration of the Arab-Israeli War (however we define that) it is clear that a Israel has a developing and superior military force in comparison to it historical opponents. The (what they call a) Qualitative Military Edge (QME) is what allows Israel to inflict a string of successive and decisive victories over their historical opponents; even though Israel is usually out-numbered by a considerable margin. And, Israel usually has to engage the hostile Arab Aggressor with the forward edge of battle along a 260º arc --- from as many as five individual armies. Having successfully defended it sovereign integrity and citizenry from advancing aggressors in three major conflicts, there are still segments of the Arab Community that have not come to terms with the physical reality of State of Israel.

But everyone reads off the same script.

(COMMENT)

I often hear, both on this forum and elsewhere, that if: Israel lifts the Blockade and withdraws its settlements and forces from the West Bank, the conflict will end. Israel tested that theory in 2005 when they withdrew from the Gaza Strip. At that time, there was NO BLOCKADE. (I know that there are people who believe that there was always a Blockade around Gaza. That is not true.)

The 2005 (12 September) Israel disengagement operation (Operation Shevet Ahim) included the withdrawal of all Israeli Forces, the evacuation of settlers, and dismantlement of of the infrastructure. It marked the end of the "Effective Control of the Gaza Strip.

Right on the heels of the Disengagement (Completed 12 September 2005); within hour of the withdrawal, Palestinian Militants began firing rocket into Israel from Gaza, and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) from Gaza effect the Hadera Market bombing (October 26) and the second HaSharon Mall suicide bombing (5 December). Then there was the first PIJ bomb attack on the Rosh Ha'ir restaurant (19 January 2006) followed by a second coordinated attack on the same Rosh Ha'ir restaurant (17 April 2006) carried-out by the PIJ and the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades (the Military Wing of West Bank Fatah).

​

The lesson did not go unnoticed. If you give the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) unrestrained freedom, it only allows HoAP better access to reconstitute a better equipped terrorist force. After disengagement, Rocket attacks increase. In 2007, a few thousand rockets and mortars had been launched into Israel, and HAMAS took control of the Gaza Strip; both Egypt and Israel closed their respective borders. Under the Oslo Accord, Israel is responsible for the security control over Gaza; including airspace and coastal waters.

The security containment of the Gaza Strip was an important factor in reducing hostile HAMAS activity against Israel; the security measures reflect the countermeasure to terrorist activity. As containment became more mature and effective and with the positive outcomes of Operation Cast Lead (27 December 2008 – 18 January 2009); by 2009 rockets hostile rocket fire into Israel dropped from 3,278 before the operation to 774 rocket launches in 2009. That represented a reduction of well over 75%.

As I look over this, I am compelled to remind you that security successes and the reduction in attacks is not due to a sign factor; but, the cocktail of factor that together form a strategic strategy.

Most Respectfully,
R

As usual you give the Israeli only perspective. You need to get off that narrow path and expand your knowledge.

While you only ever give the islamonazi terrorist perspective

 

[Phoenall]

There is an overriding principle that expulsion of a native population to promote the colonization of the land that the native people lived on is a crime.

When did this crime come into existence, give the date a place/treaty making it a crime ?

Someone relay this question to the cretin as he is too much of a coward to answer my posts these days

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, well --- I'm not sure we will ever agree on this plane. I suppose it is the difference in context.

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ"

"The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier Weizmann Tells Actions Committ Jewish Telegraphic Agency

It is interesting that Israel supporters absolutely deny that Israel is a colonial project when the Zionists themselves stated it was many times.

(COMMENT)

There was never a Colonial Project in the sense that the territory under the Mandate would experience the permanent full or partial political control of the Mandatory, or a distant Allied Power, and occupied by settlers from that country --- with the population of the territory retaining political ties with the distant parent state. You choose to apply a very strict and narrow view of the issue. And that is one interpretation of a colony.

Formal decolonialization did not arise until the adoption of the 1960 non-binding Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples [A/RES/15/1514 (XV)] and the focus on the remaining territories that might have been in Trust and still Non-Self-Governing Territories, under the parental rule. But this, in no way, was applicable to the situation in the Middle East. Israel by this time had exercise the right of self-determination, fought its war of independence, and became self-governing more than a decade before the adoption.

The Council of the League of Nations, Allied Powers, the Mandatory, and the Jewish themselves chose to see the move to the Palestinian territory as meaning that a group of people of one cultural group immigrating to and living in a foreign territory under Mandate which was not self-governing. In this sense, and the implementation of this definition of colonization, was the intended purpose behind the facilitation and encouragement of all Jewish immigration willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home. [Article 4 and Article 6, Mandate for Palestine]

Most Respectfully,
R

You can rationalize it any way you want. It was a self-described (by the Zionists) colonial project as early as 1899. Just as Rhodesia was a colonial project, just as South Africa was a colonial project, just as Algeria was a colonial project. That it was able to subjugate the people on the land it colonized and declare independence before 1960 does not make any less of a colonial project than Rhodesia which declared independence in 1965.

Just as Egypt was an arab muslim colonial project along with Yemen, UAE, Kuwait, Iran, Syria, Jordan, Iran, Lebanon etc, So what is your point ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, well --- I'm not sure we will ever agree on this plane. I suppose it is the difference in context.

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ"

"The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier Weizmann Tells Actions Committ Jewish Telegraphic Agency

It is interesting that Israel supporters absolutely deny that Israel is a colonial project when the Zionists themselves stated it was many times.

(COMMENT)

There was never a Colonial Project in the sense that the territory under the Mandate would experience the permanent full or partial political control of the Mandatory, or a distant Allied Power, and occupied by settlers from that country --- with the population of the territory retaining political ties with the distant parent state. You choose to apply a very strict and narrow view of the issue. And that is one interpretation of a colony.

Formal decolonialization did not arise until the adoption of the 1960 non-binding Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples [A/RES/15/1514 (XV)] and the focus on the remaining territories that might have been in Trust and still Non-Self-Governing Territories, under the parental rule. But this, in no way, was applicable to the situation in the Middle East. Israel by this time had exercise the right of self-determination, fought its war of independence, and became self-governing more than a decade before the adoption.

The Council of the League of Nations, Allied Powers, the Mandatory, and the Jewish themselves chose to see the move to the Palestinian territory as meaning that a group of people of one cultural group immigrating to and living in a foreign territory under Mandate which was not self-governing. In this sense, and the implementation of this definition of colonization, was the intended purpose behind the facilitation and encouragement of all Jewish immigration willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home. [Article 4 and Article 6, Mandate for Palestine]

Most Respectfully,
R

You are grasping at straws.

The Zionists said it was a colonial project.
The British said it was a colonial project.
The Palestinians say it is a colonial project.
The facts on the ground say it is a colonial project.

What do you have?

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Mmmm! Yes, I understand the newspaper article --- and its significants. The colony started well before 1899.

There is an overriding principle that expulsion of a native population to promote the colonization of the land that the native people lived on is a crime.

They were not expelled by Israel. They left.


Also, Israel isn't a colony, it's a country.

1. The Palestinians were expelled.

"“There is no evidence to show that the Arab states and the AHC wanted a mass exodus or issued blanket orders or appeals to the Palestinians to flee their homes (though in certain areas the inhabitants of specific villages were ordered by Arab commanders or the AHC to leave, mainly for strategic reasons).” ("The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem", p. 129). On the contrary, anyone who fled was actually threatened with “severe punishment”. As for the broadcasts by Arab radio stations allegedly calling on people to flee, a detailed listening to recordings of their programmes of that period shows that the claims were invented for pure propaganda.

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

2. Israel is a self-described (by the Zionists themselves) colonial project. As early as 1899 it was a colonial project. (The United States is country and was a colonial project.)

New York Times June 19, 1899

Zionists planned to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times

(COMMENT)

"I doubt that the Israeli dream would have been realized if the farm school of Mikveh Israel had not existed."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Ben-Gurion, First Prime Minister of Israel
​

You have your timeline screwed-up.

The territory was still under the Ottoman Empire when in 1870, the Sultan allocated land (East of Jaffa) for the establishment of Agricultural College; known as "Alliance Israelite Universelle" (AIU). AIU was first Established in Paris in 1860, aimed at the unification of Jews, the defense of their political and social rights, and the combating of anti-Semitism. It should be noted that AIU was the first worldwide Jewish organization, pre-dating the World Zionist Organization.

The Alliance had three major aim:

• "(a) To work everywhere for the emancipation and moral progress of the Jews.
• "(b) To give effectual support to those who are suffering persecution because they are Jews.
• "(c) To encourage all publications calculated to promote these ends."

Sultan Abdul Aziz, wanting to bring Western advancement to the region, facilitated immigration and granted AIU permission to import all manner of tools and machinery - tax and duty free; and allocated property to them. Upon recurrence of blood libel accusations, Sultan Aziz issued a constitutional level --- royal decree taking the Jews under his protection.

I don't want to side-track this discussion. And the AIU is an advanced topic all by itself. The news article eludes to it when it mentions in the opening paragraph the establishment of an Agricultural College. Yes, this was a colony, the start of immigration and colonization --- but not a colonial project. It was started by the Ottoman Empire, for the Ottoman Empire. The original school of 150 years ago and its companion school are still in operation today; the original in Mikve Israel school, Holon 5891000, and one in Jerusalem: 99 Jaffa St., Jerusalem 9434220.

The point is, this colonization effort was at the request by the Sultan. It was not an independent Zionist effort.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

Mmmm! Yes, I understand the newspaper article --- and its significants. The colony started well before 1899.

There is an overriding principle that expulsion of a native population to promote the colonization of the land that the native people lived on is a crime.

They were not expelled by Israel. They left.


Also, Israel isn't a colony, it's a country.

1. The Palestinians were expelled.

"“There is no evidence to show that the Arab states and the AHC wanted a mass exodus or issued blanket orders or appeals to the Palestinians to flee their homes (though in certain areas the inhabitants of specific villages were ordered by Arab commanders or the AHC to leave, mainly for strategic reasons).” ("The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem", p. 129). On the contrary, anyone who fled was actually threatened with “severe punishment”. As for the broadcasts by Arab radio stations allegedly calling on people to flee, a detailed listening to recordings of their programmes of that period shows that the claims were invented for pure propaganda.

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

2. Israel is a self-described (by the Zionists themselves) colonial project. As early as 1899 it was a colonial project. (The United States is country and was a colonial project.)

New York Times June 19, 1899

Zionists planned to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times

(COMMENT)

"I doubt that the Israeli dream would have been realized if the farm school of Mikveh Israel had not existed."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Ben-Gurion, First Prime Minister of Israel
​

You have your timeline screwed-up.

The territory was still under the Ottoman Empire when in 1870, the Sultan allocated land (East of Jaffa) for the establishment of Agricultural College; known as "Alliance Israelite Universelle" (AIU). AIU was first Established in Paris in 1860, aimed at the unification of Jews, the defense of their political and social rights, and the combating of anti-Semitism. It should be noted that AIU was the first worldwide Jewish organization, pre-dating the World Zionist Organization.

The Alliance had three major aim:

• "(a) To work everywhere for the emancipation and moral progress of the Jews.
• "(b) To give effectual support to those who are suffering persecution because they are Jews.
• "(c) To encourage all publications calculated to promote these ends."

Sultan Abdul Aziz, wanting to bring Western advancement to the region, facilitated immigration and granted AIU permission to import all manner of tools and machinery - tax and duty free. Upon recurrence of blood libel accusations, Sultan Aziz issued a constitutional level --- royal decree taking the Jews under his protection.

I don't want to side-track this discussion. And the AIU is an advanced topic all by itself. The news article eludes to it when it says in the opening paragraph when it mentions the establishment of an Agricultural College. Yes, this was a colony --- but not a colonial project. It was started by the Ottoman Empire, for the Ottoman Empire. The original school of 150 years ago and its companion school are still in operation today; the original in Mikve Israel school, Holon 5891000, and one in Jerusalem: 99 Jaffa St., Jerusalem 9434220.

The point is, this colonization effort was at the request by the Sultan. It was not an independent Zionist effort.

Most Respectfully,
R

Give it up Rocco it was a colonial project no matter which foreign imperial ruler sanctioned/sponsored the project. You are surely grasping at straws, unfortunately there are no straws to grasp.

The Zionists were saying the same thing in 1926, when the Ottomans were no more. Heck, they were considering extending the colonial project to Trans-Jordan and Syria.

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier

"The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier Weizmann Tells Actions Committ Jewish Telegraphic Agency

 

[pbel]

montelatici, et al,

Mmmm! Yes, I understand the newspaper article --- and its significants. The colony started well before 1899.

There is an overriding principle that expulsion of a native population to promote the colonization of the land that the native people lived on is a crime.

They were not expelled by Israel. They left.


Also, Israel isn't a colony, it's a country.

1. The Palestinians were expelled.

"“There is no evidence to show that the Arab states and the AHC wanted a mass exodus or issued blanket orders or appeals to the Palestinians to flee their homes (though in certain areas the inhabitants of specific villages were ordered by Arab commanders or the AHC to leave, mainly for strategic reasons).” ("The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem", p. 129). On the contrary, anyone who fled was actually threatened with “severe punishment”. As for the broadcasts by Arab radio stations allegedly calling on people to flee, a detailed listening to recordings of their programmes of that period shows that the claims were invented for pure propaganda.

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

2. Israel is a self-described (by the Zionists themselves) colonial project. As early as 1899 it was a colonial project. (The United States is country and was a colonial project.)

New York Times June 19, 1899

Zionists planned to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times

(COMMENT)

"I doubt that the Israeli dream would have been realized if the farm school of Mikveh Israel had not existed."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Ben-Gurion, First Prime Minister of Israel
​

You have your timeline screwed-up.

The territory was still under the Ottoman Empire when in 1870, the Sultan allocated land (East of Jaffa) for the establishment of Agricultural College; known as "Alliance Israelite Universelle" (AIU). AIU was first Established in Paris in 1860, aimed at the unification of Jews, the defense of their political and social rights, and the combating of anti-Semitism. It should be noted that AIU was the first worldwide Jewish organization, pre-dating the World Zionist Organization.

The Alliance had three major aim:

• "(a) To work everywhere for the emancipation and moral progress of the Jews.
• "(b) To give effectual support to those who are suffering persecution because they are Jews.
• "(c) To encourage all publications calculated to promote these ends."

Sultan Abdul Aziz, wanting to bring Western advancement to the region, facilitated immigration and granted AIU permission to import all manner of tools and machinery - tax and duty free. Upon recurrence of blood libel accusations, Sultan Aziz issued a constitutional level --- royal decree taking the Jews under his protection.

I don't want to side-track this discussion. And the AIU is an advanced topic all by itself. The news article eludes to it when it mentions in the opening paragraph the establishment of an Agricultural College. Yes, this was a colony, the start of immigration and colonization --- but not a colonial project. It was started by the Ottoman Empire, for the Ottoman Empire. The original school of 150 years ago and its companion school are still in operation today; the original in Mikve Israel school, Holon 5891000, and one in Jerusalem: 99 Jaffa St., Jerusalem 9434220.

The point is, this colonization effort was at the request by the Sultan. It was not an independent Zionist effort.

Most Respectfully,
R

So what's your point? That the Ottoman's Empire which in itself was a foreign Colonizer exempts Zionist Colonization?

Sounds Oxymoronic!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

montelatici, et al,

Mmmm! Yes, I understand the newspaper article --- and its significants. The colony started well before 1899.

There is an overriding principle that expulsion of a native population to promote the colonization of the land that the native people lived on is a crime.

They were not expelled by Israel. They left.


Also, Israel isn't a colony, it's a country.

1. The Palestinians were expelled.

"“There is no evidence to show that the Arab states and the AHC wanted a mass exodus or issued blanket orders or appeals to the Palestinians to flee their homes (though in certain areas the inhabitants of specific villages were ordered by Arab commanders or the AHC to leave, mainly for strategic reasons).” ("The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem", p. 129). On the contrary, anyone who fled was actually threatened with “severe punishment”. As for the broadcasts by Arab radio stations allegedly calling on people to flee, a detailed listening to recordings of their programmes of that period shows that the claims were invented for pure propaganda.

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

2. Israel is a self-described (by the Zionists themselves) colonial project. As early as 1899 it was a colonial project. (The United States is country and was a colonial project.)

New York Times June 19, 1899

Zionists planned to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times

(COMMENT)

"I doubt that the Israeli dream would have been realized if the farm school of Mikveh Israel had not existed."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Ben-Gurion, First Prime Minister of Israel
​

You have your timeline screwed-up.

The territory was still under the Ottoman Empire when in 1870, the Sultan allocated land (East of Jaffa) for the establishment of Agricultural College; known as "Alliance Israelite Universelle" (AIU). AIU was first Established in Paris in 1860, aimed at the unification of Jews, the defense of their political and social rights, and the combating of anti-Semitism. It should be noted that AIU was the first worldwide Jewish organization, pre-dating the World Zionist Organization.

The Alliance had three major aim:

• "(a) To work everywhere for the emancipation and moral progress of the Jews.
• "(b) To give effectual support to those who are suffering persecution because they are Jews.
• "(c) To encourage all publications calculated to promote these ends."

Sultan Abdul Aziz, wanting to bring Western advancement to the region, facilitated immigration and granted AIU permission to import all manner of tools and machinery - tax and duty free. Upon recurrence of blood libel accusations, Sultan Aziz issued a constitutional level --- royal decree taking the Jews under his protection.

I don't want to side-track this discussion. And the AIU is an advanced topic all by itself. The news article eludes to it when it says in the opening paragraph when it mentions the establishment of an Agricultural College. Yes, this was a colony --- but not a colonial project. It was started by the Ottoman Empire, for the Ottoman Empire. The original school of 150 years ago and its companion school are still in operation today; the original in Mikve Israel school, Holon 5891000, and one in Jerusalem: 99 Jaffa St., Jerusalem 9434220.

The point is, this colonization effort was at the request by the Sultan. It was not an independent Zionist effort.

Most Respectfully,
R

Give it up Rocco it was a colonial project no matter which foreign imperial ruler sanctioned/sponsored the project. You are surely grasping at straws, unfortunately there are no straws to grasp.

The Zionists were saying the same thing in 1926, when the Ottomans were no more. Heck, they were considering extending the colonial project to Trans-Jordan and Syria.

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier

"The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier Weizmann Tells Actions Committ Jewish Telegraphic Agency

It's very sad the Arabs lost and continued to lose.

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

Mmmm! Yes, I understand the newspaper article --- and its significants. The colony started well before 1899.

There is an overriding principle that expulsion of a native population to promote the colonization of the land that the native people lived on is a crime.

They were not expelled by Israel. They left.


Also, Israel isn't a colony, it's a country.

1. The Palestinians were expelled.

"“There is no evidence to show that the Arab states and the AHC wanted a mass exodus or issued blanket orders or appeals to the Palestinians to flee their homes (though in certain areas the inhabitants of specific villages were ordered by Arab commanders or the AHC to leave, mainly for strategic reasons).” ("The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem", p. 129). On the contrary, anyone who fled was actually threatened with “severe punishment”. As for the broadcasts by Arab radio stations allegedly calling on people to flee, a detailed listening to recordings of their programmes of that period shows that the claims were invented for pure propaganda.

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

2. Israel is a self-described (by the Zionists themselves) colonial project. As early as 1899 it was a colonial project. (The United States is country and was a colonial project.)

New York Times June 19, 1899

Zionists planned to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times

(COMMENT)

"I doubt that the Israeli dream would have been realized if the farm school of Mikveh Israel had not existed."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Ben-Gurion, First Prime Minister of Israel
​

You have your timeline screwed-up.

The territory was still under the Ottoman Empire when in 1870, the Sultan allocated land (East of Jaffa) for the establishment of Agricultural College; known as "Alliance Israelite Universelle" (AIU). AIU was first Established in Paris in 1860, aimed at the unification of Jews, the defense of their political and social rights, and the combating of anti-Semitism. It should be noted that AIU was the first worldwide Jewish organization, pre-dating the World Zionist Organization.

The Alliance had three major aim:

• "(a) To work everywhere for the emancipation and moral progress of the Jews.
• "(b) To give effectual support to those who are suffering persecution because they are Jews.
• "(c) To encourage all publications calculated to promote these ends."

Sultan Abdul Aziz, wanting to bring Western advancement to the region, facilitated immigration and granted AIU permission to import all manner of tools and machinery - tax and duty free. Upon recurrence of blood libel accusations, Sultan Aziz issued a constitutional level --- royal decree taking the Jews under his protection.

I don't want to side-track this discussion. And the AIU is an advanced topic all by itself. The news article eludes to it when it says in the opening paragraph when it mentions the establishment of an Agricultural College. Yes, this was a colony --- but not a colonial project. It was started by the Ottoman Empire, for the Ottoman Empire. The original school of 150 years ago and its companion school are still in operation today; the original in Mikve Israel school, Holon 5891000, and one in Jerusalem: 99 Jaffa St., Jerusalem 9434220.

The point is, this colonization effort was at the request by the Sultan. It was not an independent Zionist effort.

Most Respectfully,
R

Give it up Rocco it was a colonial project no matter which foreign imperial ruler sanctioned/sponsored the project. You are surely grasping at straws, unfortunately there are no straws to grasp.

The Zionists were saying the same thing in 1926, when the Ottomans were no more. Heck, they were considering extending the colonial project to Trans-Jordan and Syria.

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier

"The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier Weizmann Tells Actions Committ Jewish Telegraphic Agency

It's very sad the Arabs lost and continued to lose.

The colonizer does usually win, initially.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

montelatici, et al,

Mmmm! Yes, I understand the newspaper article --- and its significants. The colony started well before 1899.

They were not expelled by Israel. They left.


Also, Israel isn't a colony, it's a country.

1. The Palestinians were expelled.

"“There is no evidence to show that the Arab states and the AHC wanted a mass exodus or issued blanket orders or appeals to the Palestinians to flee their homes (though in certain areas the inhabitants of specific villages were ordered by Arab commanders or the AHC to leave, mainly for strategic reasons).” ("The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem", p. 129). On the contrary, anyone who fled was actually threatened with “severe punishment”. As for the broadcasts by Arab radio stations allegedly calling on people to flee, a detailed listening to recordings of their programmes of that period shows that the claims were invented for pure propaganda.

The expulsion of the Palestinians re-examined - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

2. Israel is a self-described (by the Zionists themselves) colonial project. As early as 1899 it was a colonial project. (The United States is country and was a colonial project.)

New York Times June 19, 1899

Zionists planned to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times

(COMMENT)

"I doubt that the Israeli dream would have been realized if the farm school of Mikveh Israel had not existed."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Ben-Gurion, First Prime Minister of Israel
​

You have your timeline screwed-up.

The territory was still under the Ottoman Empire when in 1870, the Sultan allocated land (East of Jaffa) for the establishment of Agricultural College; known as "Alliance Israelite Universelle" (AIU). AIU was first Established in Paris in 1860, aimed at the unification of Jews, the defense of their political and social rights, and the combating of anti-Semitism. It should be noted that AIU was the first worldwide Jewish organization, pre-dating the World Zionist Organization.

The Alliance had three major aim:

• "(a) To work everywhere for the emancipation and moral progress of the Jews.
• "(b) To give effectual support to those who are suffering persecution because they are Jews.
• "(c) To encourage all publications calculated to promote these ends."

Sultan Abdul Aziz, wanting to bring Western advancement to the region, facilitated immigration and granted AIU permission to import all manner of tools and machinery - tax and duty free. Upon recurrence of blood libel accusations, Sultan Aziz issued a constitutional level --- royal decree taking the Jews under his protection.

I don't want to side-track this discussion. And the AIU is an advanced topic all by itself. The news article eludes to it when it says in the opening paragraph when it mentions the establishment of an Agricultural College. Yes, this was a colony --- but not a colonial project. It was started by the Ottoman Empire, for the Ottoman Empire. The original school of 150 years ago and its companion school are still in operation today; the original in Mikve Israel school, Holon 5891000, and one in Jerusalem: 99 Jaffa St., Jerusalem 9434220.

The point is, this colonization effort was at the request by the Sultan. It was not an independent Zionist effort.

Most Respectfully,
R

Give it up Rocco it was a colonial project no matter which foreign imperial ruler sanctioned/sponsored the project. You are surely grasping at straws, unfortunately there are no straws to grasp.

The Zionists were saying the same thing in 1926, when the Ottomans were no more. Heck, they were considering extending the colonial project to Trans-Jordan and Syria.

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier

"The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier Weizmann Tells Actions Committ Jewish Telegraphic Agency

It's very sad the Arabs lost and continued to lose.

The colonizer does usually win, initially.

Waah.